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RE: Farewell.."Civilized Lady".. Concorde
I have to admit it's true, that shape looks like an artist designed it, and not a result of years of aerodynamic optimization. The fact that it also flies invokes connotations to swans, which the 346 also does, but to a lesser degree.
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RE: Farewell.."Civilized Lady".. Concorde
Concorde is not my favourite aircraft, but I am nevertheless sad about its retirement. Unfortunately most good things have to eventually end.
Concorde is obviously much more than a mere aircraft, illustrated, at the very least, by there being so many dedicated new stories about it on television and perhaps a total of 200,000 to 300,000 members of the general public visiting MAN, BHX, CWL, BFS and LHR to see it off. Would they do that for the retirement of a Jetstream 31? No. In addition, it was a unique flying experience and one which was both pleasureable and enjoyable. Moreover, I have heard of factual stories of people proposing aboard Concorde and also timing their wedding (on the ground) to coincide with the beast flying overhead. Would they do this for a Fokker 50 flying overhead? No. Clearly, it's a way of life - not just an aircraft.
Concorde is obviously much more than a mere aircraft, illustrated, at the very least, by there being so many dedicated new stories about it on television and perhaps a total of 200,000 to 300,000 members of the general public visiting MAN, BHX, CWL, BFS and LHR to see it off. Would they do that for the retirement of a Jetstream 31? No. In addition, it was a unique flying experience and one which was both pleasureable and enjoyable. Moreover, I have heard of factual stories of people proposing aboard Concorde and also timing their wedding (on the ground) to coincide with the beast flying overhead. Would they do this for a Fokker 50 flying overhead? No. Clearly, it's a way of life - not just an aircraft.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
RE: Farewell.."Civilized Lady".. Concorde
...no one in the general public will blink twice when the A380 rolls out
I'm not convinced the general public blinks twice at Concorde. I think it's pure hype.
I happened to be at a fairly crowded rail station (70 or 80 passengers on the platform) two or three months ago when Concorde flew over, and just out of curiosity decided to watch the crowd. Despite the noise, not a single passenger looked up. Hardly a ringing endorsement of the overblown sentiments on this forum.
I'm not convinced the general public blinks twice at Concorde. I think it's pure hype.
I happened to be at a fairly crowded rail station (70 or 80 passengers on the platform) two or three months ago when Concorde flew over, and just out of curiosity decided to watch the crowd. Despite the noise, not a single passenger looked up. Hardly a ringing endorsement of the overblown sentiments on this forum.
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RE: Farewell.."Civilized Lady".. Concorde
"I happened to be at a fairly crowded rail station (70 or 80 passengers on the platform) two or three months ago when Concorde flew over, and just out of curiosity decided to watch the crowd. Despite the noise, not a single passenger looked up."
Firstly, the crowd was properly not interested in aviation and thus assumed it was just 'another' 'plane. Secondly, if they KNEW it was Concorde, they'd have looked up.
Between 200,000 and 300,000 people have, this week, visited regional airports (plus LHR) to view this beast. Why would they do this if it was mere "hype" ?
Why would there be so many news reports on its retirement and so forth if no-one was interested?
People are interested in it and rightly so.
Firstly, the crowd was properly not interested in aviation and thus assumed it was just 'another' 'plane. Secondly, if they KNEW it was Concorde, they'd have looked up.
Between 200,000 and 300,000 people have, this week, visited regional airports (plus LHR) to view this beast. Why would they do this if it was mere "hype" ?
Why would there be so many news reports on its retirement and so forth if no-one was interested?
People are interested in it and rightly so.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
RE: Farewell.."Civilized Lady".. Concorde
Yes, the Concorde is gone, but private citizens flying supersonic won't have to wait long for a replacement.
Gulfstream Aerospace right now is doing serious research on a supersonic business jet that can fly transatlantic routes at around Mach 1.8, yet will have almost no sonic boom and the plane's engines will meet today's strict regulations for noise and exhaust emissions. We could see such a plane flying before 2010.
And Warren Buffett's NetJets company has expressed strong interest in buying a fairly large fleet of supersonic bizjets when such a plane becomes available.
Gulfstream Aerospace right now is doing serious research on a supersonic business jet that can fly transatlantic routes at around Mach 1.8, yet will have almost no sonic boom and the plane's engines will meet today's strict regulations for noise and exhaust emissions. We could see such a plane flying before 2010.
And Warren Buffett's NetJets company has expressed strong interest in buying a fairly large fleet of supersonic bizjets when such a plane becomes available.RE: Farewell.."Civilized Lady".. Concorde
If I were the one who could pick the final passengers, it wouldn't be a bunch of high and mighty celebrities! It would be us true loyal Airliners.net fans!
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
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RE: Farewell.."Civilized Lady".. Concorde
Now "Civilized Lady",
View Large View Medium
Photo © A J Best
You are finally home at homebase Heathrow.
There will never be a more "glamorous"
View Large View Medium
Photo © Peter Lauer
There will never be a more "aristocratic"
There will never be a more "elegant"
View Large View Medium
Photo © Ryan Hemmings
and most of all
There will never be a more "civilized" way to travel!
View Large View Medium
Photo © Shawn Byers
Thank you British Airways for bringing the World .. Concorde, "Civilized Lady"
For us that have journeyed onboard, the memory will live on forever!
CONCORDE
"The Civilized Lady"
SpeedBird
KL777JFK
Photo © A J Best
You are finally home at homebase Heathrow.
There will never be a more "glamorous"
Photo © Peter Lauer
There will never be a more "aristocratic"
There will never be a more "elegant"
Photo © Ryan Hemmings
and most of all
There will never be a more "civilized" way to travel!
Photo © Shawn Byers
Thank you British Airways for bringing the World .. Concorde, "Civilized Lady"
For us that have journeyed onboard, the memory will live on forever!
CONCORDE
"The Civilized Lady"
SpeedBird
KL777JFK
RE: Farewell.."Civilized Lady".. Concorde
Thank you France AND Great Britain for being able to work together to give birth to the greatest plane ever built.
Thank you British Airways AND Air France for bringing Concorde to the World during 27 years.
Thank you British Airways AND Air France for bringing Concorde to the World during 27 years.
 Photo © Philippe noret |  Photo © Art Brett |
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RE: Farewell.."Civilized Lady".. Concorde
British Airways,
This is your day!
Concorde
"The Civilized Lady"
KL777JFK
This is your day!
Concorde
"The Civilized Lady"
KL777JFK
RE: Farewell.."Civilized Lady".. Concorde
Well - a great era in Aerospace is over - to those people who worked on Concorde - I thank you for the memory of my only flight on this superlative aircraft, it will live with me for the rest of my life.
To Backfire - your talking sh**e mate !! Obviously the hundreds of thousands of people who have turned out to see it this week are a marketing invention !!
RickB
[Edited 2003-10-24 21:35:10]
To Backfire - your talking sh**e mate !! Obviously the hundreds of thousands of people who have turned out to see it this week are a marketing invention !!
RickB
[Edited 2003-10-24 21:35:10]
RE: Farewell.."Civilized Lady".. Concorde
Hi guys, I just arrived home from a day at LHR, today was unbelievable, 3 concordes landing in a line, standing for 12 hours in the freezing cold was well worth it, it is a very sad day too!
Glenn
Glenn
http://www.glenneldridgeaviation.com
RE: Farewell.."Civilized Lady".. Concorde
All, few good last videos...
http://www.britishairways.com/travel/concvidwm/public/en_us
Take off from Heathrow to Edinburgh
Final take off from New York
Final Concorde landing at Heathrow
Final taxi at Heathrow
http://www.britishairways.com/travel/concvidwm/public/en_us
Take off from Heathrow to Edinburgh
Final take off from New York
Final Concorde landing at Heathrow
Final taxi at Heathrow
RE: Farewell.."Civilized Lady".. Concorde
I really don't get this 'civilized lady' thing... it's been mentioned so much.. all by one user 
Josh
Josh
RE: Farewell.."Civilized Lady".. Concorde
"Thank you France AND Great Britain for being able to work together to give birth to the greatest plane ever built."
My own opionion is that the Lockheed SR-71 Blackbird which traveled over Mach 3 at altitudes up to 90,000-100,000 ft is the greatest aircraft built to date (that we are aware of).
As for commercial aircraft, the Concorde, Boeing 707, Boeing 747 have all been revolutionary.
But if you ask the average person on the street to name a commercial aircraft most folks will say "747", the 747 was revolutionary and probably more widely recognized than Concorde (although it's close).
My own opionion is that the Lockheed SR-71 Blackbird which traveled over Mach 3 at altitudes up to 90,000-100,000 ft is the greatest aircraft built to date (that we are aware of).
As for commercial aircraft, the Concorde, Boeing 707, Boeing 747 have all been revolutionary.
But if you ask the average person on the street to name a commercial aircraft most folks will say "747", the 747 was revolutionary and probably more widely recognized than Concorde (although it's close).
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
RE: Farewell.."Civilized Lady".. Concorde
The comment above about a Chinese SST intrigues me
1. China is clearly - as seen last week - intending to use aerospace as a national showcase.
2. China does have a huge internal market for air travel
3. If the Chinese authorities decide sonic boom is NOT a problem, it won't be...no Congressional hearings or public meetings required......
Another idea - it was talked about in the early 1990s in the post-Wall euphoria of the times that one of the ex-Soviet design bureaux was going to form a partnership with Gulfstream to create a supersonic business jet - just an idea (see also Boeing Sonic Cruiser), wouldn't that be a fantastic idea, tho - an Airbus/Sukhoi or Airbus/Ilyushin or Airbus/Antonov partnership to build the 21st C's SST?
1. China is clearly - as seen last week - intending to use aerospace as a national showcase.
2. China does have a huge internal market for air travel
3. If the Chinese authorities decide sonic boom is NOT a problem, it won't be...no Congressional hearings or public meetings required......
Another idea - it was talked about in the early 1990s in the post-Wall euphoria of the times that one of the ex-Soviet design bureaux was going to form a partnership with Gulfstream to create a supersonic business jet - just an idea (see also Boeing Sonic Cruiser), wouldn't that be a fantastic idea, tho - an Airbus/Sukhoi or Airbus/Ilyushin or Airbus/Antonov partnership to build the 21st C's SST?
RE: Farewell.."Civilized Lady".. Concorde
STT757,
I would argue that its the otherway around - the general public doesn't know about the 747 - they refer to it as a jumbo jet - show them a DC10, L1011, A330,A340,777,747 and they will call them all a jumbo jet - show them a picture of Concorde and no one will call it a jumbo jet - they will call it Concorde.
The SR71 was also a landmark achievement of the 50's and 60's - a tribue to Kelly Johnson and Ben Rich at the skunk works - between the two of them (Concorde and SR71) they identify the pinnacle of flight. Only difference is that no one here ever flew the RS-71 (as it was supposed to be) but many of us had the opportunity to fly Concorde - and we didn't need a space suit to do it
RickB
I would argue that its the otherway around - the general public doesn't know about the 747 - they refer to it as a jumbo jet - show them a DC10, L1011, A330,A340,777,747 and they will call them all a jumbo jet - show them a picture of Concorde and no one will call it a jumbo jet - they will call it Concorde.
The SR71 was also a landmark achievement of the 50's and 60's - a tribue to Kelly Johnson and Ben Rich at the skunk works - between the two of them (Concorde and SR71) they identify the pinnacle of flight. Only difference is that no one here ever flew the RS-71 (as it was supposed to be) but many of us had the opportunity to fly Concorde - and we didn't need a space suit to do it
RickB
RE: Farewell.."Civilized Lady".. Concorde
"and we didn't need a space suit to do it "
Micheal Jackson needed one when he flew, and so did his pet monkeys.
Micheal Jackson needed one when he flew, and so did his pet monkeys.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
RE: Farewell.."Civilized Lady".. Concorde
The Concorde was out of reach for most people. What percentage of people could afford it? I agree it was a great engineering feat and should be regarded as such. However, the outpouring of emotion by the masses over the retirement of something only the very rich could afford seems ridiculous to me. Now when the final 747 flight occurs, that will be much more significant to me since it signifies the aircraft that first allowed the average person the ability to affordably travel around the world. This isn't a pro Boeing post. If Airbus had come out with the first jet to allow affordable international travel, I would now be making the same comment about that aircraft.
RE: Farewell.."Civilized Lady".. Concorde
Airbus will, I imagine experience quite a jump forward in its international profile when the A-380 comes online - that will be the next time we all crowd the roads around the airports!!!
RE: Farewell.."Civilized Lady".. Concorde
BUFJets,
I am by no means rich - far from it infact - but I flew Concorde - dont get me wrong the often quoted return price of thousands of pounds/dollars wasn't the only way to fly it - there where often special deals etc.
The point of Concorde is as I said earlier - the emotion around Concorde is far greater than any other airliner including the 747 for one important reason - Concorde is a work of art. Its beautiful even to the general public - the whole point of art is to provoke emotion in the viewer. Sadly, whilst the 747 is one of the truly great aircraft ever created, it will never be viewed by the general public as a work of art and will never generate the same kind of emotions.
RickB
I am by no means rich - far from it infact - but I flew Concorde - dont get me wrong the often quoted return price of thousands of pounds/dollars wasn't the only way to fly it - there where often special deals etc.
The point of Concorde is as I said earlier - the emotion around Concorde is far greater than any other airliner including the 747 for one important reason - Concorde is a work of art. Its beautiful even to the general public - the whole point of art is to provoke emotion in the viewer. Sadly, whilst the 747 is one of the truly great aircraft ever created, it will never be viewed by the general public as a work of art and will never generate the same kind of emotions.
RickB
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richierich
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RE: Farewell.."Civilized Lady".. Concorde
Sorry - there will not be 200,000 people crowding roads to see the A380 make its first flight. I am not denying that there will be interest, but doubtfully this amount of interest.
The Concorde is a remarkable aircraft and will take its rightful place in history as the aircraft that brought supersonic travel to the world. Granted, you had to be wealthy to afford to do it (even once) but it was there.
I don't think even the most staunch Concorde lover will disagree if you say that the 747 had a bigger impact on air travel than Concorde, because one was a commercial success and the other was not. The 747 and other widebodies helped make air travel affordable to a huge segment of the world's population. The Concorde cannot make such a claim.
But at the end of the day, there is perhaps no aircraft in history that has ever captured the imagination of the general public like Concorde has. Maybe it was the mystique or the exclusivity, maybe it was because it looked nothing like anything else in the sky. Has there ever been a more photogenic aircraft?
A piece of aviation history passed today, and as much as I did not want to add to a thread started by Kl777jfk, because typically his threads are useless and ridiculous, I also felt somewhat moved by the retirement of the SST. It was a piece of history that is irreplaceable, and in much the same way as baseball fans will mourn Roger Clemens' retirement, myself and others will feel a loss that Concorde is no longer gracing the skies. Sure, commercial aviation and baseball will go on, but they will be different now. As I have said before in another post, I think the world took a technological step backwards today.
As JFK Ground Control said to Capt. Bannister and Speedbird 002 this morning: "you will be missed here".
The Concorde is a remarkable aircraft and will take its rightful place in history as the aircraft that brought supersonic travel to the world. Granted, you had to be wealthy to afford to do it (even once) but it was there.
I don't think even the most staunch Concorde lover will disagree if you say that the 747 had a bigger impact on air travel than Concorde, because one was a commercial success and the other was not. The 747 and other widebodies helped make air travel affordable to a huge segment of the world's population. The Concorde cannot make such a claim.
But at the end of the day, there is perhaps no aircraft in history that has ever captured the imagination of the general public like Concorde has. Maybe it was the mystique or the exclusivity, maybe it was because it looked nothing like anything else in the sky. Has there ever been a more photogenic aircraft?
A piece of aviation history passed today, and as much as I did not want to add to a thread started by Kl777jfk, because typically his threads are useless and ridiculous, I also felt somewhat moved by the retirement of the SST. It was a piece of history that is irreplaceable, and in much the same way as baseball fans will mourn Roger Clemens' retirement, myself and others will feel a loss that Concorde is no longer gracing the skies. Sure, commercial aviation and baseball will go on, but they will be different now. As I have said before in another post, I think the world took a technological step backwards today.
As JFK Ground Control said to Capt. Bannister and Speedbird 002 this morning: "you will be missed here".
None shall pass!!!!
RE: Farewell.."Civilized Lady".. Concorde
Ha ha, when I said "we" would be crowding the airports, I meant the devoted Airliners.net Corps of Aeroraks, not the General Public, lol
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RE: Farewell.."Civilized Lady".. Concorde
Richierich.
It was so very nice for you to have posted -a step backwards-
It is nice to see the outpouring of affection for Concorde!
True, I only flew her 2 times - LHR to JFK/JFK to LHR but even if I would have never flown Concorde my feelings would be the same!
Concorde
"The Civilized Lady"
KL777JFK
It was so very nice for you to have posted -a step backwards-
It is nice to see the outpouring of affection for Concorde!
True, I only flew her 2 times - LHR to JFK/JFK to LHR but even if I would have never flown Concorde my feelings would be the same!
Concorde
"The Civilized Lady"
KL777JFK
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RE: Farewell.."Civilized Lady".. Concorde
A grand era in aviation comes to a poignant close; I'm sure many of you saw the emotional goings on at Heathrow on CNN and other channels after the 3 birds touched down for the last time. Though it's an airplane we don't really need, indeed, we'll miss it. The flying experience is poorer, now that Concorde flys no more. It was a useful tool for the busy corporate traveler, sustained by the 80s and 90s economic booms, before recent business cutbacks and before teleconferencing became so overwhelmingly dominant. It was a true privilege to have flown just once on this great airplane, sadly I'm certain there'll not be the like of it flying again in my lifetime. Though my rational side will not miss it, my emotional half will always long for it and the proud era it stood for. Farewell.."Civilized Lady".., indeed, we'll always remember you! 
RE: Farewell.."Civilized Lady".. Concorde
Regardless of whether people believe Concorde was an business tool, or that it was a symbol of mans achievement one fact remains!
People appreciated its splendor!
I was at LHR today, and I can honestly say that I find it moving to see the crowds of people who attended, many of whom never had the chance to fly aboard the "civilized lady!
KL777JFK - I do not feel that your posts were over emotional at all and I respect you for displaying the respect this marvel deserved!
James
Great Britain
People appreciated its splendor!
I was at LHR today, and I can honestly say that I find it moving to see the crowds of people who attended, many of whom never had the chance to fly aboard the "civilized lady!
KL777JFK - I do not feel that your posts were over emotional at all and I respect you for displaying the respect this marvel deserved!
James
Great Britain
Q. How does an A340 gain altitude - A. With the curve of the Earth
RE: Farewell.."Civilized Lady".. Concorde
The end of an era indeed. I was also at LHR to see Concorde's last departure and the 3 landings. It was a lively atmosphere with thousands around, armed with cameras and binoculars (I had mine) but it was very sad ultimately. It hit hardest when the 3rd Concorde came into line to land - many rushed across the road to be directly under it and film the final touchdown. And with that, Concorde's service history came to an end.
It was a day of mixed emotions. Those who flew in it remembered it fondly, those who did not relied on today to provide the memories for a lifetime. All in all, a great day and a good send-off for the grand lady of the skies.
Farewell Concorde.
TrintoCan.
It was a day of mixed emotions. Those who flew in it remembered it fondly, those who did not relied on today to provide the memories for a lifetime. All in all, a great day and a good send-off for the grand lady of the skies.
Farewell Concorde.
TrintoCan.
Hop to it, fly for life!
RE: Farewell.."Civilized Lady".. Concorde
Although 91% of BA Concorde revenue was from Concordes JFK services, with a nice extra from BGI too, it is a matter of pride for us that for 22 years we flew many people on Concorde at affordable prices on charters, not only fun flights to nowhere, but many to destinations all over the world, a few years ago we were doing 300 of these sort of flights per year.
I regret that we did not do some more of these recently.
Not just a rich persons toy.
I regret that we did not do some more of these recently.
Not just a rich persons toy.
RE: Farewell.."Civilized Lady".. Concorde
Sad day. I was watching CNN from my house in Mexico City (would've prefered BBC, though), and it was truly amazing. The image of 2 Concorde landing on parallel approaches was just unimaginable. Incredible indeed.
When I watched Alpha Golf land, I just couldn't believe it. I have a problem realizing that great things come to an end, and when I was actually watching it, I just didn't get the fact that that was the LAST time a Concorde landed after a scheduled supersonic flight. I try to think that the end is not completely here, since she will still fly to all of those museums. And I'm really hoping for BA to mantain one lady in flying conditions so that she can still fly in airshows, etc.
I guess I feel satisfied because I at least got to see her once parked at JFK while my flight was taxiing for takeoff.
Sad day.
When I watched Alpha Golf land, I just couldn't believe it. I have a problem realizing that great things come to an end, and when I was actually watching it, I just didn't get the fact that that was the LAST time a Concorde landed after a scheduled supersonic flight. I try to think that the end is not completely here, since she will still fly to all of those museums. And I'm really hoping for BA to mantain one lady in flying conditions so that she can still fly in airshows, etc.
I guess I feel satisfied because I at least got to see her once parked at JFK while my flight was taxiing for takeoff.
 Photo © Miguel Skoryna |  Photo © Jorge Rocafort |
Sad day.
"... for there you have been and there you will long to return."
RE: Farewell.."Civilized Lady".. Concorde
I think Joe Patroni said it best:
(upon boarding F-BTSC from Concorde: Airport '79)
Patroni: "Now here's a beautiful lady."
Metrand: "You have good taste Joseph; there's nothing like her in the skies. She can maneuver with a military jet...fly just as fast...and a lot farther."
Patroni: "I think I'm falling in love!"
(upon boarding F-BTSC from Concorde: Airport '79)
Patroni: "Now here's a beautiful lady."
Metrand: "You have good taste Joseph; there's nothing like her in the skies. She can maneuver with a military jet...fly just as fast...and a lot farther."
Patroni: "I think I'm falling in love!"
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
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