Just heard on WCBS -- local CBS station -- that the pilot of Air France 023 was arrested at JFK Airport by Port Authority of New York and New Jersey police. Does anyone know about this?

Well, to start with: he was frenchman in US........
*just my 2 öre*
 

AGAIN... ? if true...this is getting a bit boring...  

AF023 JFK-CDG tonight is cancelled.

Is he the one that made a bomb joke at the security gate ?

Chris

AGAIN ... ?   what did he do this time ? tried to hide a corkscrew in his pocket ?

If true...this is getting really boring...  


AF023 is cancelled tonight.

Come on Solnabo...

There is a reason I'm sure...Crewmembers have been known to: Be under the influence, illegal drug trafficking and abusive behavior...They are after all human you know...

Air France serves many routes to the US so the feds would have one heck of a time arresting crewmembers and tourists, if it was the Frenchman in the US story...

Det var så mine 10 øre!

Boaz...

AF023 JFK-CDG tonight is cancelled.

I think that's a little illegal to fly a commercial airplane with one pilot arrested... 

This is absurd-this is the second arrest of an Air France pilot within a short period of time. Does anyone know what the reason for arrest was of yet?

If this keeps up, France could seriously face being relegated to Category 2.

-WGW2707

WGW2707,

If this keeps up, France could seriously face being relegated to Category 2.

What in the world are you talking about? That's never going to happen. We have unruly pilots in the USA and they haven't done anything to us yet.

JBirdAV8r,

What in the world are you talking about? That's never going to happen. We have unruly pilots in the USA and they haven't done anything to us yet.

I think he was kidding...  

-Derek

UnitedFirst,

That may be....but he's said some pretty outlandish stuff before.

The pilot made inapropriate comments about his bag exploding during sceening, after he was cleared through the TSA screeners notified the Port Authority Police who boarded his flight and escorted him off for questioning.

He was released, no charges were filed but the flight was cancelled.

Somone should tell these AF pilots to keep their mouths shut, this is the second such incident in the last couple months.

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/news/wabc_102403_pilot.html

JBirdAV8r, do you seriously think that I would actually believe that there would exist a strong possiblity of France being relegated to Category 2 status? It was of course rhetorical statement.

That said, some suprising and much-disputed placements into Category 2 have occured. Argentina, for instance, is in Category 2 largely for political reasons, as it is highly improbable that Aerolineas Argentinas is in terms of safety behind the US majors, in fact, I would feel more comfortable on them than I would on some of the US LCCs and charter operations whose names I shall not disclose for obvious reasons... Two other prominent countries on the Category 2 list are Poland (the inclusion of Poland on the list in my opinion is rather bizarre considering it's a well-run, safe, profitable country rapidly modernizing and generally Westernized) and Greece (this is a more understandable inclusion given the reported lax security at ATH). If France were to be put on the Category 2 list for political reasons, given these notable other members of what one unfortunately might think of as the "Second Rate Club" it would not suprise me.

I do think that Air France definitely needs to instruct their pilots on proper ettiquete at the security checkpoint. It almost seems as though they're itching for a fight, for some issue that will enable them to crusade against the US aviation regulators.....

One other note-I recognize I have made some statements in my post of an unconventional (ok...outlandish) nature, but as daring as these statements may be, I stand beside them and can assure you that proper research was made before I issued them. In 1965, the suggestion of starting an LCC would have seemed downright nutty to most airline business experts.

-WGW2707

Dear WGW2707 -
xxx
Your comments about Aerolineas Argentinas relegated to Category 2 status are much appreciated. I head their 747 flight crew training, and since I was an American citizen (and former PanAm pilot until 1991), I also act as liaison with the FAA in the matters of regaining a Category 1 status. Indeed, there are some "political aspects" as to the reason we are presently Category 2. Sales representatives, from Boeing, have been trying hard to sell us some newer 747 or 777 equipment, and lure us away from similar efforts by Airbus. Having hosted the Boeing team visiting Argentina, with the assistance of many bottles of wine for dinner, the Boeing people admitted that an order for new Boeings would definitely be considered as a valid point in our fitness to regain Category 1 status... I also get that feeling with my dealings with the higher levels of the FAA representatives in Washington DC...
xxx
Happy contrails  
(s) Skipper

It isn't necessary for a pilot to make such comments. They are highly inappropriate in any airport, be it JFK, YUL, SYD or CDG. I'm glad he was taught a lesson.

Once again... Welcome to the Fascist States of America...!

They should first try to find what's wrong with their security system before putting a blame on a Pilot's joke... when you know the poor security degree of some US airports. Theses "security" check for the Crews are unusefull, inefficient, and humiliating.
I am glad not to fly to the US anymore and not ready to fly there again !

FLYSCC,
These pilots whine about how security sucks and in the mean time they want their airplanes safe?
They need to shut their mouths and get through security. How hard would it be for a French man to shut his pie hole and get through security, oh, wait that was hard, sorry.

Here is a joke, what is the difference between God and a pilot? God knows he's not a pilot. nuff said.


UAL 777 CONTRAIL

OK, here we go.

First of all, in my opinion, pilots should not be required to pass through metal detectors or have their bags scanned, as they already posess control of the most sought after weapon-the airliner itself. Instead, I think a brief pre-flight "interview" conducted in a polite manner, or some form of identity verification/health check would be preferrable. Pilots do need to go through a security proceedure before taking command-however in my opinion their security proceedure should neccessarily be different from the main passenger proceedure. I have every confidence that the TSA will develop an advanced pilot screening proceedure before too long.

In either case, either with the current screening or the more sophisticated screening I have proposed, a pilot making an inappropriate remark should not be permitted to fly. You don't know what's in the minds of pilots who do this. What would it take to drive a pilot over the edge? These inappropriate remarks have got to stop! I don't care whether the pilots who make the remarks are from the Republic of France, the United States of America or the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg-no one who makes those remarks should be permitted to fly an aircraft. The pyschological conditions that would cause a person to make such remarks lead to speculation as to other motives, stress related problems or in general, a state of mind in which the pilot would pose a risk.

B747Skipper, corrupt occurances like this have happened before and will happen again in the US aviation industry. It is unfortunate, and I am sure the USA is not the only country to have these problems. I personally am in favor of abolishing the dual-category system and instead viewing each airline as a seperate entity. For instance, you could have a country with two major airlines, one of which is doing well and has a strong maintenance program and is a really capable, competent organization, a model of operating efficiency, and another airline that has a record of deferred maintenance, unhappy staff, a bad financial position, a strong debt load, and has had a large number of accidents and mechanical failures recently. Obviously, it makes sense to let the first airline fly to the USA while denying the privilege to the second. When a foreign airline wishes to start service to the USA, therefore, in my opinion a safety review (paid for by the airline in question in entirety) would have to be performed, followed by additional inspections (also paid for). This is the best way to validate the safety of an airline.

Until such a system is adopted, I am very sympathetic to any airline which could be the victim of corruption, and the unfortunate impression given by the Boeing staff seem to be rather discouraging (although I would not be suprised to hear of Airbus salesmen engaging in similiar pressure tactics, afterall, business is often unfortunately business).

-WGW2707

Chrisdigo:

Alllrighty then space ranger. Apparently, you havent heard of all the WHITE AMERICAN pilots who have been busted for similar comments?

This isnt a race issue...too bad the simple try to project everything as such.

If anybody went to any big international airport worldwide and spoke similar words, they'd get their asses kicked too. THIS IS NOT LIMITED TO THE USA.

AF Pilot arrested for making a bad comment............

WN passenger places bags with knives and bleach on 5 planes..........

Which one should receive more attention by security? In my opinion it would be the WN passenger placing bags on 5 airplanes! The security needs to set its priority list!


Best regards,
a340pilot

How stupid can someone be, to make these remarks. I'm pretty sure AF has given some advise to their crews after the incident some weeks ago.
So again, to again make such a remark at the same very same airport is nothing but stupid. Of course you can discuss the necessity of crews being searched but as long as the rules are there you should comply with them.
Remarks about fascism in this context disqualify the author (IMO).

A340Pilot, you are absolutely right...

But it's much easier to arrest a Pilot for a bad joke : It makes big news and pleases the crowd... ( especially an AF pilot in the US )

When you pretend to rule the world and give lessons to everybody, it's much harder to reconsider your system and procedures, and admit security failure and dysfonction...


Do you really think that, today, a potential terrorist would try to board a plane through the normal passenger path ???? While it is SO EASY to reach an a/c parked on the tarmac from outside, and this is true on most airport in the world... ( remember the team of journalists would boarded a BA 747 at LHR few years ago, and made big feast on board during half the night ? )

This was one funny joke, Mr. Pilot! Let's see, if You're still laughing, when someone indeed brings a bomb into Your AC, You could invite him to the cockpit for a beer and talk about Your bomb-smuggling-experiences!

Stupid enough, when idiotic pax make these jokes during sceurity check. The security station tries to grant Your own security, You shouldn't try to make these efforts look ridicoulous. Apart from that, an adult man, especially someone with enough brain and mind for flying should be too old and reasonable for this stupid nonsense. Take him away for some minutes, let him feel the pressure of his company when a transatlantic is cancelled, maybe it helps. Oh, do that with all pilots, no matter where they come from.

Actually, when thinking about it - maybe the arrest was a freaking funny joke as well and the pilot just doesn't have any sense of humor...

WGW2707 wrote:

Greece (this is a more understandable inclusion given the reported lax security at ATH).

... have you been to ATH? One feels much more secure flying through there than many US airports...

klik

Are the French people of this forum seriously as ignorant as they sound? You guys have got to be kidding! Just because he was French, you say? Wow....

Air France pilots need to keep their mouths shut just like every single other pilot and passenger in the US, then they'd be alright.

Once again... Welcome to the Fascist States of America...!

They should first try to find what's wrong with their security system before putting a blame on a Pilot's joke... when you know the poor security degree of some US airports. Theses "security" check for the Crews are unusefull, inefficient, and humiliating.
I am glad not to fly to the US anymore and not ready to fly there again !

And from where did Richard Reid attempt to blow up an AA jet??? Get your own house in order...


RE: Air France Pilot Arrested In New York
Username: Chrisdigo
From France, joined Oct 2003, 23 posts, RR: 0
Reply: 16
Posted Sat Oct 25 2003 09:13:47 UTC+1 and read 708 times:
ST757: Somone should tell these AF pilots to keep their mouths shut
Marco: I'm glad he was taught a lesson.

AMERICA freedom of speech!!! bla bla bla

YEAH RIGHT. But just because he was French he got in some trouble. Talk about French bashing!!!

If you're not able in this country to make a remark or a joke then.... WHO ARE THE FASCISTS???????



Freedom of speech doesn't give you the right to shout "Fire" in a crowded theater. Grow up.

This isn´t about the use and the quality of security controls at US airports.

That pilot (and I don´t care if he was french, american, japanese or anything else) knew about the sensitivity of those TSA guys and acted in an irresponsible way causing a cancelled flight which left many passengers stranded at JFK which probably made his airline lose lots of money (apart from the damage his behaviour caused to the image of Air France).
That´s why he should be punished for by his employer.
How can one educated person be that stupid?

Daniel

AMERICA freedom of speech!!! bla bla bla

YEAH RIGHT. But just because he was French he got in some trouble. Talk about French bashing!!!

If you're not able in this country to make a remark or a joke then.... WHO ARE THE FASCISTS???????

Is this response even worth replying to? The arrogant pilot was in the security part of the airport and made comments about a bomb. That's not only stupid, but potentially dangerous. We have no room for arrogance here, when in different countries you must learn to respect their sensitivities. If you can't behave yourself, do all of north america a favor and stay in France.

I have a question though, do the crew members in France or Europe have the same security check and screening as in the US or are they all allowed to get through the gates with a simple Badge?

Lamyl

FLYSSC,
Do you think that if he had made the comment in the UK at a security checkpoint that they would have all laughed along with him and said "On your way and thanks for the good laugh" ?.I don't think so . We all know as airline employees that you don't make such comments at security checkpoints or anywhere else for that matter. If your going to be that stupid then you deserve the consequences. End of story!

Yes, such comment can be considered as stupid. But when you are subject to HARASSMENT by TSA , sometimes, you stupidely loose control.
After the first incident, I have seen on TV and newspapers tens of comments by French crew member, complaining that they are sometimes searched for 30 minutes.
As someone said, it is stupid, because the plane itself can be a weapon. The pilot needs no bomb...
Are US pilots subject to searches that are so long and can be considered as humiliating for professionals?
Remember the French Virgin steward, who helped rescue in New York , on Sep 11, and has been arrested later for having done his job. To be able to fly back to France for Christmas last year, he had to plead guilyt, because in the States, if you plead guilty, you are free, but if you want to prove your innocence, you cannot be released.
Teva

Accidentaly: you havent heard of all the WHITE AMERICAN pilots who have been busted for similar comments?

Well that's funny but no I didn't. I'm serious: if somebody can submit one or two links about that I'll be happy.

Marco: We have no room for arrogance here, when in different countries you must learn to respect their sensitivities. If you can't behave yourself, do all of north america a favor and stay in France.


What's just amaze me in here is that the same incident happen in a 2 months intervall with 2 differents AF pilots in JFK. What a coincidence?? French bashing?? Again if there is links about other pilot arreted in similar situation please provide link.

And it also seems the media covers are very inequal.

Chris

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[Edited 2003-10-25 19:28:16]

Luv2fly, I guess he's never heard of the saying: Don't bite the hand that feeds you.

Chris

I can't believe you're condoning this behavior. This is a pilot, he is the man who will fly the plane. I would be very uncomfortable if such an ass were the pilot. He needs to more respectful to TSA, and less arrogant. This is how things work in north America. If you don't want to respect our values, please don't fly here in the future, it's really as simple as that.

And the same applies for any other pilots/cabin crew; French, African, Russian, Chinese, etc...you have to respect certain laws and sensitivities.

What's so amazing about 2 AF pilots getting busted for making stupid comments??? Just because they are French...Haven't you seen the signs just before screening saying comments about bombs and weapons will be taken seriously????..Once again, if you make the stupid comments then you suffer the consequences!!! and by the way, I have been searched for about 15-20mins going through the screening process and I'm a US crewmember!..Harassment...NOPE. people need to stop using the US/French spat as an excuse..Like I said if he hadn't said the comment none of this would have happened!

"New York-AP0 -- An Air France has been released after being held for suspicious remarks as his baggage was being screened at Kennedy Airport in New york.

He allegedly made remarks about the plane blowing up.

An alarm went off as the pilot's checked luggage was sent through a screening machine, and he was called back to the machine.

A Transportation Security Administration spokeswoman says that as screeners were inspecting his bags, the pilot made comments that included references to explosions and being front page news in The New York Times.

Screeners notified Port Authority police and completed their inspection. There was no problem with the bag.

An Air France spokesman says the pilot whose name was not released, was taken in for questioning and released. The spokesman says he can neither confirm nor deny the pilot's comments.

The passengers were put on other flights "


Well I don't know what's wrong with AF's pilots lately (they usually very nice people) , but i guess you've heared of the flight from brazzaville to Paris 3 or 4 days ago. ?

I don't know yet...What happened in that Brazza flight?

I can't believe people are actually defeding the frenchman; is it so obvious the AF pilot was an idiot to make such a comment- why would ANY pilot make a comment like that(?), especially a joke (not to mention to a security person), about an airplane blowing up?!?! It's just plain idiocy on the part of the pilot and those that try to defend him. Shame on him and shame on his 'defenders.'

What's up with this retarded and innane french argument about American freedom of speech(?); I shouldn't even waist my time to respond to such pathetic statements but I can't resist! It's like back in the 1950s when France would critize the U.S. as being an [neo]imperial power, while they were implementing their own racist, REAL imperial systems of government on their African colonies! The hypocrisy is amazing! A frenchman telling us about freedom of speech--what's next, are they going to lecture the U.S. about how to correctly build pick-up trucks!?! Get real. This freedom of speech/fascist argument is lame and unthoughtful--such stupid comments just go to show how seriously (not very) these people should be taken.

Hint: It's illegal to yell 'fire' in a crowded theatre--a restriction on the freedom of speech?!? Not likely, nobody is stopping that same person from discussing or disagreeing with the political body/government or its policies. Ergo, you can't (or shouldn't) say (or yell for that matter) bomb at an airport security check point--nothing stopping that person from [freely] debating real or serious political issues.


"France wants more evidence...The last time France wanted more evidence it rolled right through France with a German flag." - David Letterman

"The only way the French are going in is if we tell them we found truffles in Iraq." - Dennis Miller

FlySSC,
Do you suppose that you are sticking up for the french pilot because you are a french person yourself? Probably. Just typical french, thinking everyone's out to get them. They are not.

What happened to professionalism?

About the Brazzaville Flight..few hours after take off the AF pilot got a warning from the Brazza Tower that they might suspect someone lodged in the main Gear area, but the pilot didn't take the warn seriously and kept flying to Paris. Finally they found a black male dead on the runway at Paris .
They gave some kind of excuses as the pilot couldn't deroute from it's flight because he cannot land anywhere in Africa at night or something like that...

Whilst the AF pilot was out of order making the joke - if it was so serious - why the hell did the TSA let him continue to his aircraft and then complain to the authorities afterwards - thats what the BS is in this case. If a guy makes a remark like that - dont let him through security pure and simple - dont let him go and then complain to someone else !!

Seperate to the AF pilot issue:-

The comments about pilots not needing to go through security because they have the best weapon of all - the aircraft - is very wrong. The pilot may not have a death wish - but he may be sympathetic to someone who has - the pilot becomes the easiest way of carrying weapons through security and passing them on to other people once through - they get on seperate flights - and the other guy has the means to bring an aircraft down. Thats why pilots, FA's, staff and everyone else including the TSA guys should go through security before getting anywhere near an aircraft.

RickB

"if it was so serious - why the hell did the TSA let him continue to his aircraft and then complain to the authorities afterwards - thats what the BS is in this case"

Why is that BS? The TSA may have been uncertain as to their ability or justification to reprimand the pilot. Nevertheless, they were concerned enough to contact the Port Authority about it, who, in turn, viewed the comments to be serious enough to warrant his detainment. Simple chain of command; it doesn't make the case BS because it was the Port Authority instead of TSA who did the reprimanding.



[Edited 2003-10-25 22:44:36]

They gave some kind of excuses as the pilot couldn't deroute from it's flight because he cannot land anywhere in Africa at night or something like that...

A lot of African air fields are closed at night though.

ILoveORD - I am definately not defending the AF pilot - deserves what he gets - but the fact that they let him continue is worrying - they should of contacted their superiors be it the TSA or the port authority before letting the pilot continue. At least this way the issue could of been kept quiet without worrying passengers. The pilot could of been escorted away at security and questioned - AF could of been informed earlier so perhaps having the opportunity to find an alternative pilot for the flight etc.

To me its rather like they preferred to let him continue and then humiliate the pilot infront of his passengers - very much out of order.

RickB

For a group of people who are suppose to be so smart they make the biggest mistakes.

you would think that making 6 figures and traveling the world wouldn't make some people so stupid. Who cares if they are French, like I said before if you want your planes safe from bombs or passengers who make these comments then you need to lead by example.


ual 777 contrail

I have to say something !!!

Serves him right ! I have had enough of these idiots making remarks and comments, I mean, they believe they are smart and untouchables...
Well, guess what you are not Skygods anymore, this job is not the same as 10 or 20 years ago, money is now the God for the airline industry and if you are not happy, go drive a bus !
We have all been told to say nothing when we go through these security points, to comply to the request of the TSA and get on with it !
It annoys everyone to go through the check points but what the hell, these guys are doing their job, let them do it !
Who the hell does he think he is, I hope they all get fired now, It happened once, it cost the airline a lot of money to accomodate the passengers, it is bad for our image, and NO, another idiot pulls the same stunt 3 months later, there are a couple of villages in France that are missing an idiot !
There, I said it...

Happy Flying,

AF Cabin Crew

FLYSSC,

As an airline pilot, would you feel it is ok if a passenger started making smart ass comments about having a bomb aboard your airplane? or would you feel the need to make all necessary security checks, just incase they were not kidding?

God bless through Jesus,

Jeff

Jeff,

Anyone making comments like this should be investigated and dealt with appropriately - what shouldn't happen is that the person is allowed to carry on with their business, board an aircraft before being arrested. If a passenger threatened to blow up an aircraft - they wouldn't of been allowed to go any further - let alone anywhere near an aircraft !!

The TSA handled it wrongly in my opinion - that said the AF pilot deserves it.

RickB