Emirates Announces Airbus A 340-500 Routes

behramjee · Sat Oct 25, 2003 6:26 pm

Just saw the EK website news section on the product feature of their new Airbus A 340-500.

According to EK, the aircraft will be initially flying to :

LGW SYD AKL OSAKA + MEL

New routes for the EK A 345 are :

YVR YYZ JFK ORD LAX SFO Buenos Aires + Sao Paulo

AKL flights will be joined with MEL and SYD and I expect the Sao and Buen flights too be joined as well.

nflippa · Sat Oct 25, 2003 8:23 pm

WOW. This seems to be defining new industry standards. Finally a 2-2-2 configuration in business. The cabins in First look great - a personal mini-bar, all I have waited for.
Let's hope they will fit these standards on the existin 330's and 777's

thaigold · Sat Oct 25, 2003 8:52 pm

What can you say but WOW....

That is the most fantastic first class I have ever seen. They will beat BA/SQ/QF/CX (or whoever currently is the best) by miles when this is introduced.

How long will the flight time from SYD to Dubai be???? I would never want to leave a seat like that....

YUL2010 · Sat Oct 25, 2003 8:59 pm

YVR and YYZ???
Where did you get this info?

9V-SPF · Sat Oct 25, 2003 9:04 pm

Flight time from Dubai to Sydney will be 13:55 according to the Emirates website. I would love to spend this time in one of those great first class seats emptying my private minibar...well I should stop dreaming now Insane

Daniel

s.p.a.s. · Sat Oct 25, 2003 9:10 pm

Yes, I would delighted with it, but are you sure about BUE and GRU?

Cheers

RS

kaitak · Sat Oct 25, 2003 9:25 pm

I had heard that the soon to be delivered ex-SIA -300s would be flying to KIX. Did they specifically mention -500s, or just A340s generally?

9v-svc · Sat Oct 25, 2003 9:54 pm

Saw EK's website , absolutely stunning .

Kaitak : I am afraid its the -300 .

Flying Belgian · Sat Oct 25, 2003 10:01 pm

It really worths to pay a visit to the Emirates website, it's simply AMAZING !!!

I never imagined so much luxury was possible on an airliner...

Just have a look at those first class private cabins !!!

Emirates sets the standards on this point.

Cheers,

FB.

chepos · Sat Oct 25, 2003 10:17 pm

On the EK website- GRU,EZE and YVR were mentioned as A340-500 destinations so I guess they will be served by these planes. The plane looks great and that first class is very impressive, I especially like the lighting system with the stars and everything. I cant wait to see what they are going to do with the A380 . I wish maybe in the future they can ponder the idea of a MIA-DXB flight.
Chepos

MASkargo · Sat Oct 25, 2003 10:32 pm

hmmm...that's what i call luxury... it was well worth the visit to the website. While I don't doubt their excellent service and awards they have gained thus far,
I'm still sceptical at claims that this airline manages to expand so fast (in terms of aircraft and routes served) WITHOUT outside financial help. I think that's just rubbish. There must be some form of 'aid' or handouts from the extremely rich UAE gov...

Danny · Sat Oct 25, 2003 11:39 pm

Now watch the presentation of A340-500 on Emirates website:
http://www.emirates.com/
That's luxury Smile

artsyman · Sun Oct 26, 2003 12:03 am

Finally a 2-2-2 configuration in business
****************

This isn't a change, Most airlines I have been on are 2-2-2 in business or even better with 2-1-2. Continental has 2-2-2 on the 777's, and 2-1-2 on the 767 series

Jeremy

EurostarVA · Sun Oct 26, 2003 12:34 am

Flights to Miami will surely be on boards if they consider Buenos Aires....
notice flights to buenos and the other cities on the map are POSSIBLE routes and not announced routes.

UnitedFirst · Sun Oct 26, 2003 12:49 am

Artsyman,

This isn't a change, Most airlines I have been on are 2-2-2 in business or even better with 2-1-2. Continental has 2-2-2 on the 777's, and 2-1-2 on the 767 series

While this is true, Emirates is known for having a 2-3-2 seating configuration onboard its A330s, which is unusual, as Airbus touts its A330/A340 having "no middle seat in Business Class."

There is, of course, a 2-3-2 configuration on the B777 – but this is somewhat understandable, as the plane is wide enough to comfortably accomodate such a configuration.

-Derek

ConcordeBoy · Sun Oct 26, 2003 2:04 am

YVR YYZ JFK ORD LAX SFO

Open Skies not withstanding.... EK still doesnt have clearance to operate the latter four of these flights, and the UAE seems to be doing little to correct that.

Willing to wager that these four get continually suspended past launch date Laugh out loud

bobrayner · Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:45 am

I'm still sceptical at claims that this airline manages to expand so fast (in terms of aircraft and routes served) WITHOUT outside financial help. I think that's just rubbish. There must be some form of 'aid' or handouts from the extremely rich UAE gov...

Careful management, strong yields, and lots of borrowing.

Emirates accounts are available online. Have a look. Let us know when you find the "handouts from government" entry... Big grin

jaysit · Sun Oct 26, 2003 7:07 am

Is there really a big demand for air travel between South America and Dubai?

Also, the gold and mirrors in those first class cabins were a bit gaudy, were they not?

RJ_Delta · Sun Oct 26, 2003 10:58 am

Also Emirates is considering to fly to Santiago Chile. The government of the Emirate of Dubai is negotiating with the Chilean Authorities of Aviation for open the routes between Dubai and Santiago Chile. Also the Emirate of Dubai is looking to sign an open skies agreement with Chile.

From Santiago, Chile
RJ_Delta.

The Coachman · Sun Oct 26, 2003 11:05 am

Any idea about economy pitch? I'm booked on the 345 on 14 Dec from SYD to DXB. Should be a very good experience.

Air Taiwan · Sun Oct 26, 2003 11:20 am

I think one of the reasons that EK is doing so well recently is that they virtually don't have competition out of DXB and the middle east. Look at SQ, the have MH, TG, QF/BA, CX out of Singapore to compete with them. EK simply don't have an "equal opponent" out of DXB.

Government handouts? I couldn't find any in their annual report, but that said, doesn't mean the the govt is not trying its hardest to help EK in all other areas (eg slot protection, bilateral agreements, govt business etc)

It's never so clean cut that they have or the have not received govt aid.

Jimmy

copaair737 · Sun Oct 26, 2003 12:24 pm

where are you guys getting all this info off the site at? Alls i get is info about the new BNE, PER, AKL services.

COSPN · Sun Oct 26, 2003 12:57 pm

I thought EK could no fly to the USA because of no oversight agency in the UAE gov't "They cant regulate themselves" I assume Transport Canada has about the same regs so I dont think EK will fly to North America until this regulatory problem is worked out...but I am sure someone is working on it..

caribb · Sun Oct 26, 2003 1:01 pm

YVR & YYZ... is there really enough demand for a route to DXB?.. especially from Vancouver??

behramjee · Sun Oct 26, 2003 1:02 pm

Another interesting point to note is that if you go to Emirates.com and search for job opportunities abroad (outside UAE), you'll notice that there is a small line which says that there vacanies for their new offices opening next summer in :

ATLANTA and VANCOUVER

Now we all know that YVR was on the planned A 345 route plan from DXB nonstop but ATL??? That route would only survive if they enter into a big codesharing alliance with DL which too has a hub in JFK where EK hopes to fly its A 345 from next summer!!!

caribb · Sun Oct 26, 2003 1:05 pm

Humm sounds like they are going after the unemployed market in Atlanta and Vancouver LOL.... good luck to them!

Richard28 · Mon Oct 27, 2003 4:07 am

I'm surprised that it will be doing the LGW run, as the aircrafts long range is not required on this route.

Also with the new first cabins, I would have thought that if they were going to do London then LHR would be the preferred destination (with more business pax and connecting flights).

Perhaps this is to enable people to fly all the way LGW-DYB-SYD all the way in the new cabin??

Does anyone know how the timetable fits together?

Rich.

EurostarVA · Mon Oct 27, 2003 5:44 am

Caribb,

Please bare in mind that Emirates does not consider demand between the UAE and potential destinations exclusively. This is because they are developing a mega hub in the Middle East, which is perfectly located to 'redraw world routes' as they have put it.

This, in my mind, is an exciting time for Emirates and Middle Eastern aviation as a whole because there is a redefinition of connection possibilities between ALL continents. The ME region, in my opinion, is the most suitable location for a worldwide hub.

Emirates, with its extensive routes and frequencies into the Indian Subcontinent (population 1 billion!!), is benefiting as it offers Indian travellers easy and comfortable connection prospects. This is exactly why Emirates intends to operate to Toronto and Vancouver. These two cities are homes for large Indian and Pakistani communities and I have no doubt in my mind that these flights will be mostly filled by these communities, connecting to their hometowns with a single stop. For example, someone in Cochin or Islamabad will be able to fly to Vancouver or New York with a single stop in Dubai as compared to possible stops in Mumbai and London (or Karachi and Frankfurt). This gives Emirates an edge in competition.

Although I am confident flights to Canada will be profitable, I doubt profits can be made on a route to Santiago de Chile or even Buenos Aires (Malaysia Airlines loses money on its route to the latter city), at least in the coming 5 years.

Thanks,

Hussam

Flying Belgian · Mon Oct 27, 2003 6:12 am

Some questions:

What will be EK 345's first destinations ?? LGW ??

How many 345 will they own by the end of 2003 ??

Will the pilot have a single type rating 332/345 ??

Cheers,

The FB.

RickB · Mon Oct 27, 2003 6:13 am

About time Emirates did something with their business class which was on a par with Premiair gold on Mytravel !! Sorry thats being a little unfair... To Mytravel.

RickB

ConcordeBoy · Mon Oct 27, 2003 6:17 am

That route would only survive if they enter into a big codesharing alliance with DL

EK and DL already have a codeshare announcement... though USA-UAE traffic will be routed through LGW thus far.

ConcordeBoy · Mon Oct 27, 2003 6:19 am

I thought EK could no fly to the USA because of no oversight agency in the UAE gov't "They cant regulate themselves"

You're right... though EK is busy announcing USA destinations, they're not going to be worth a hill o' beans until the USA/UAE clear up that issue.

Mexicana757 · Mon Oct 27, 2003 6:58 am

ConcordeBoy

The routes that EK has on their route map are not announced routes. They state in their website they are POSSIBLE future routes. That means if they do get permission to fly into the USA then they will be opening those routes. Thats the same for YVR, YYZ, EZE, And GRU, which all are under the POSSIBLE future routes.

caribb · Mon Oct 27, 2003 8:05 am

EurostarVA- Thanks for the explanation. I hope you are right about success at YVR. I'm pretty confident about YYZ as there are many large immigrant communities from the Gulf and near by countries living in the Toronto region but YVR seemed so "out of the loop" for service to the Gulf States even with their huge Indian/Pakistani population. Their one stop already exists and is via YYZ on Air Canada.. An A340-500 is a large plane to fill each week. My gut says it won't last but I hope they prove me wrong as I'd like to see Vancouver make this a success. It's a great airport.

Doug

ZK-NBT · Mon Oct 27, 2003 8:17 am

The first regular flights should be the DXB-SYD-AKL and DXB-LGW I think.
I think 4 aircraft should be in service by the end of the year.

behramjee · Mon Oct 27, 2003 8:33 am

As far as YVR goes, they will face very stiff competition from YVR to India from Cathay Pacific, Korean Air, Japan Airlines, China Airlines and Singapore Airlines especially if the transit times at the hubs of these airlines is less than 3 hrs for onward connecting flights to India.

However from YYZ, I hope they really give Air Canada a very very tough time as AC's service to DEL on its A 343 will not have PTVs in eco class as EKs will have + EKs F & J class on its A 345s are far superior to AC's J class.

Plus AC can only carry 230 pax per flight to DEL and back, EK can carry as many as 262 pax on its A 345s not only to India via DXB but also to Arabia, East-Southern-Northern Africa, Pak-SRL-DHAKA but also BKK-SIN and KUL-CGK!!!

So in my estimation the tougher competition for EK will come from YVR but not that much from YYZ!!!

VRG772 · Mon Oct 27, 2003 8:58 am

Sao Paulo?! That's very nice... Do you know when is planned to begin this flights?
Now, this is going to be the only connection between Brazil and Middle East!
I hope to see EK in Brazil very soon...

Julio

copaair737 · Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:10 am

are the first US routes still going to be SFO and JFK?

ConcordeBoy · Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:21 am

are the first US routes still going to be SFO and JFK?

That's the current plan... assuming they're ever allowed to fly nonstop to the USA

Neo · Mon Oct 27, 2003 10:47 am

I really believe that the GRU route could work just fine!!!

There is an icreasing demand for passengers between South America and the Middle East due to some facts:

-Increase in business between the two regions.
-Large number of people from the Middle East, specially in Brazil and Argentina.
-Beeing the only direct link with the Middle Eas would surely save up a lot time, lost in the conections through Europe. i guess about 6 to 7 hrs approx.
Also, flying to Asia would be probably faster also, since DXB is already a great hub.

For example, today if someone in Brazil has to go through Europe or Johannesburg to reach Hong Kong, Bangkok for example. That's the fastest way to do it right now. With a possible nonstop service linking S.America to DXB this would definelty allow faster way to reach this places!!!

I think that a 2 or maybe 3 weekly flight would work just fine!

What you all think???

ACB777 · Mon Oct 27, 2003 12:48 pm

I think EK to YVR would be great. Instead of using AC to go to the Indian Subcontinent, people can use EK once they learn how much better it is. EK would be great airline to take to the Indian Subcontinent. Plus, the flight to YVR to DXB can connect passengers onto African destinations. Then ppl from YVR who want to fly EK to Africa won't have to have a stop in LHR and DXB. It would be a lot more easier for me!

EurostarVA · Tue Oct 28, 2003 4:26 am

Caribb, Behramjee,

I believe you have missed some facts... Emirates currently flies to 5 Indian gateways. All the other airlines you mentioned operate only to Mumbai and Delhi, with the exception of Singapore Airlines which also flies to 5 gatways. However, Emirates clearly has an edge in the number of frequencies offered (more than 14 weekly frequencies to Mumbai for example). This being in mind means that stiffer competition will probably come from European airlines, but again, no European airline flies to 5 Indian gateways.

I would expect that British Airways will be the only significant competitor, as it operates to 4 destinations in India and flies to Vancouver on a daily basis.

s.p.a.s. · Tue Oct 28, 2003 4:48 am

Neo..

Howdy mate,

Regarding time savings, I would say that six to seven hours is a little bit optimistic... a more probable amount of time would be around the two and half to three and half hours frame, assuming that the ground times in Europe and DXB are the same, ex. GRU-DXB <<2 hours>> DXB-SIN compared to GRU-FRA <<2 hours>> FRA-SIN.

As you already mentioned, we have a quite big colony of middle-easterners here, not only in Sao Paulo but Parana state and the tri-border region, most of this people is made up by wealthy businessmen.

Abraço

RS

kaitak · Tue Oct 28, 2003 7:05 am

Looking at the Great Circle Mapper (a wonderful site - add it to your favourites!), DXB-GRU is well with range for the 345: 7,592mi, 6,597nm. Rather than serving three cities in Latin America, it would probably make sense - particularly if it were to join an Alliance, preferably STAR - for it to fly there, then feed into VARIG flights to EZE, GIG, LIM, SCL.

Santiago is actually in range too - but only just. One of the problems on this route is that the Great Circle route takes you right through Saudi Arabia, across Sudan, then right across the middle of Africa (well, let's put it this way - FANS hasn't quite made it to Equatorial Africa yet!); you also need to consider political issues in both Saudi, Sudan and much of central Africa, which could require routes to be amended, thus adding time and distance to the service.

aussie747 · Tue Oct 28, 2003 12:50 pm

I do not know when the first service is but the DXB-SYD-AKL service for the A345 is on 1st December (was put back from 26th October about 2 months ago)

caribb · Tue Oct 28, 2003 1:04 pm

ACB777: I think EK to YVR would be great. Instead of using AC to go to the Indian Subcontinent, people can use EK once they learn how much better it is. EK would be great airline to take to the Indian Subcontinent. Plus, the flight to YVR to DXB can connect passengers onto African destinations. Then ppl from YVR who want to fly EK to Africa won't have to have a stop in LHR and DXB. It would be a lot more easier for me!

We are talking about a route that is close to being half way around the world. I think ticket price will play a big role on the Canadian side despite EK's superior service. I'm also not really sure how many African travellers (or African bound travellers) there are between Vancouver and that Continent but my hunch is not a lot, but I agree it will make it easier. Personally I think this is more a case of wishful thinking than being a realistic route.. but time will tell. Vancouver is one teriffic city and is an Asian gateway for North Americans.. I'm not sure how strong they will be to start supporting routes to such cities out of their traditional boundaries such as DXB... and I question Dubai's ability to be such a mega draw from that distance as well.. It will be new ground for both ends. I wish them well.

Doug

MAH4546 · Tue Oct 28, 2003 1:11 pm

I cannot find reference to this on this thread, so forgive me if it was mentioned. However, the proposed route mape on the Emirates website lists Rio de Janeiro, not Sao Paulo.

Panman · Wed Oct 29, 2003 12:34 am

Any idea when the first flight to LGW with the A345 is going to be? I could not see it on their website.

paNMan

flying lsd · Wed Oct 29, 2003 1:16 am

Any new european destination like Brussels, political capital of Europe,
in the Emirates pipe-line?
If Dubai want to be a great vacation dstination, they can't forget Brussels
Maybe trice weekly to begin?

bobrayner · Wed Oct 29, 2003 2:05 am

Any new european destination like Brussels, political capital of Europe

Brussels would be nice, and I'm sure Emirates have toyed with the idea... but it's pretty easy to get from Brussels to a few other hubs that Emirates already serve; and it's not a huge catchment area.

Didn't they mention adding Bucharest / Budapest / Warsaw / Zagreb / Prague? Is that really happening? When?

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