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BUFjets
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WN To Add PHL

Tue Oct 28, 2003 9:20 pm

Southwest to start Philadelphia flights
By Bob Fernandez and Tom Belden
Inquirer Staff Writers

In a surprise move, Southwest Airlines - the nation's largest discount air carrier - is expected to announce today that it will begin scheduled service at Philadelphia International Airport in May, according to top airport officials.

The entry by Southwest, with initially about 40 daily flights, almost guarantees that airline passengers long in the grip of high fares in Philadelphia will see a sharp fall in the price of flights to cities Southwest serves.

The move also will likely threaten financially ailing US Airways by drawing business from it and forcing it to lower some fares. The airline, one of the region's largest employers, with 5,500 workers, provides service to 58 percent of the passenger traffic here.

WOW!!!!! Not many were expecting PHL
 
VectorVictor
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RE: WN To Add PHL

Tue Oct 28, 2003 9:44 pm

 
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lindy field
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RE: WN To Add PHL

Tue Oct 28, 2003 9:45 pm

Definitely an interesting choice. I'm curious as to whether WN plans to introduce regional routes or transcons from PHL - or whether it'll be a mix of both.
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JGPH1A
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RE: WN To Add PHL

Tue Oct 28, 2003 9:48 pm

So where will they fly too, then ?
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
FDH
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RE: WN To Add PHL

Tue Oct 28, 2003 9:50 pm

40 daily flights as a starting point. That is a lot of flights!
FDH
 
jblake1
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RE: WN To Add PHL

Tue Oct 28, 2003 9:51 pm

Route guess for PHL?

MDW
BWI
TPA
ISP
MCO
SDF
LAS
PHX
 
MSYtristar
Posts: 7543
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RE: WN To Add PHL

Tue Oct 28, 2003 9:53 pm

This is good to see...seeing Southwest becoming more aggressive and going after the big cartel carriers once again. It will provide the fine people of the PHL area with incredibly reliable, friendly service...and low fares of course. If Air Tran can make it in PHL, I think WN can.

Initial routes I would like to see nonstops to:

MDW,BNA,JAX,MCO,FLL,TPA,LAS,PHX,MSY,MCI

And of course....

PVD, with maybe 7 or 8 flights/day.

Interesting, very interesting.


Steve in New Orleans
 
zrb2
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RE: WN To Add PHL

Tue Oct 28, 2003 10:12 pm

I usually see many Pennsylvania license plates in the parking lots of BWI. These are people who drive down for WN fares. I was talking to a guy once from the Harrisburg/Hershey area and he told me many businesses in Southeastern PA use BWI. I'm sure those folks are pretty happy with this announcement.
 
727LOVER
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RE: WN To Add PHL

Tue Oct 28, 2003 10:27 pm

AA gave up gates on "E"? I thought AA has been at "A" for over a decade.  Confused

PHL is very delay prone. If they are going to PHL, why not JFK, EWR, BOS, ATL or MIA?
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
triscl
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RE: WN To Add PHL

Tue Oct 28, 2003 11:07 pm

AA had old TWA gates in E and I believe while A was under construction they were still using them...

This is very exciting news! Too bad I don't live in Philly anymore. I used to sometimes go down to BWI, but now that won't be so common I imagine.

Although I do kind of feel bad for USAirways...

But happy for the Southeastern PA-ers
 
SWAFA30
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RE: WN To Add PHL

Tue Oct 28, 2003 11:07 pm

Well they told us our new city would be shocking and it's official...I'm shocked.

To my knowledge we have NEVER opened a station with 40 flights before. I guess they are anticipating some serious demand. I guess we know where all of those new jets are going now.
 
vsmike
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RE: WN To Add PHL

Tue Oct 28, 2003 11:17 pm

Best of luck to WN! I am thrilled!! I fear they will face some mighty delays... plus of course the wrath of USAirways.

For 727LOVER, one airline can own or lease gate space at an airport without parking their planes at every gate or terminal. It is a money-making opportunity for that carrier, as is perhaps the case with AA @ PHL's Term. E.

BEst,
VSM
Skyteam. Caring More About Me.
 
KALB
Posts: 564
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RE: WN To Add PHL

Tue Oct 28, 2003 11:17 pm

There is absolutely NO news release on this at the Southwest Airlines web site, so take it with a grain of salt. Why would WN set up a major (40 flights/day) operation ninety miles from BWI? It makes no economic sense.
 
haveric
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RE: WN To Add PHL

Tue Oct 28, 2003 11:20 pm

KALB -- there is a huge article in the Philadelphia Inquirer, as well as reports on local TV in Philadelphia. A press conference with Herb is scheduled for today. In short -- click on the link and read the article!
 
Lakini1102
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RE: WN To Add PHL

Tue Oct 28, 2003 11:22 pm

KALB,


Why take it with a grain of salt? I saw the story on our local ABC News this morning and it's in our local paper. They are going to make it official later today and have a press conference at PHL.


http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/7118943.htm

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/news/10282003_nw_southwest.html
 
haveric
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RE: WN To Add PHL

Tue Oct 28, 2003 11:23 pm

Lakini -- good to see another local on A.net -- welcome!!
 
prosa
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RE: WN To Add PHL

Tue Oct 28, 2003 11:23 pm

In that recent large thread about WN's next city, many people were guessing that it would be an attack on US, but almost all of them thought the new city would be CLT or PIT. It looks like WN had quite another idea in mind.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
Boeing757/767
Posts: 2183
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RE: WN To Add PHL

Tue Oct 28, 2003 11:27 pm

KALB, read the article. A press conference will be held today.
Free-thinking, left-leaning secularist
 
luv2fly
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RE: WN To Add PHL

Tue Oct 28, 2003 11:29 pm

Well I for one I am shocked. Everyone thought WN would take PIT when US left, well maybe now PIT will not be left in the dust so quickly by US, since WN is hitting them where it hurts - PHL.....
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
PVD757
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RE: WN To Add PHL

Tue Oct 28, 2003 11:29 pm

I too am SHOCKED! I can't wait to see where they will fly to/from PHL...I'm sure PVD will get at least 2 or 3 flights to start. USAirways must be pissed! What do you think will happen to FL's presence there...they offer a nice compliment of markets from PHL...I say WN kicks thier butt and FL scales back to PHL-ATL only. This is huge in so many ways..I don't know where to begin.
 
clrd2go
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RE: WN To Add PHL

Tue Oct 28, 2003 11:30 pm



I wouldn't be surprised to see MHT-PHL flights at some point.



Jim
What a long strange trip it's been
 
atcboy73
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RE: WN To Add PHL

Tue Oct 28, 2003 11:39 pm

ME 3 AM SHOCKED  Smile

Delays, delays, delays.

PHL isn't really know for being a top on time airport.

Are they looking to put US out of business?
 
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RayChuang
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RE: WN To Add PHL

Tue Oct 28, 2003 11:52 pm

I am very surprised that WN chose PHL as its next destination city! This is going to be particularly bad news for US since with WN's generally low fares it could drive US to the brink of extinction.

I see WN flying to the following destinations from PHL eventually:

Fort Lauderdale (FLL)
Orlando (MCO)
Chicago-Midway (MDW)
St. Louis, MO (STL)
Kansas City, MO (MCI)
Phoenix (PHX)
Las Vegas, NV (LAS)
Los Angeles (LAX)
Oakland (OAK)
San Jose (SJC)

All of these cities have major WN operations.
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
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RE: WN To Add PHL

Tue Oct 28, 2003 11:52 pm

I am also shocked they let the cat out of the bag this far in advance.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
goboeing
Posts: 2572
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RE: WN To Add PHL

Wed Oct 29, 2003 12:01 am

I am absolutely, 100% shocked that Southwest Airlines chose to fly to PHL as their next city. I just can't believe it! I hope they serve MHT, hell, I hope they serve everywhere. I can't wait to here some of the new destinations by them from PHL and I can't wait to get down there to see their planes here.

Nick
 
fjnovak1
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RE: WN To Add PHL

Wed Oct 29, 2003 12:09 am

I don't think you'll see BWI service- it is only 100 miles away, right?
Lets see, 40 flights daily:
Markets I think they'll DEFINATELY serve:
MDW- between 4-6 n/s daily
STL- I think 3, maybe 4 n/s daily
MCO- at least 2 n/s daily
FLL- 1 n/s daily to start probably
MHT and PVD- each with a up to 4 n/s flights- may be contingent on gate space at those airports...
(up to 21 n/s flights in the above markets)
Markets they likely will serve:
BDL- 2-3 n/s daily (US runs 757s and A321s on this route)
BNA- 2-3 n/s daily (lots of connections there)
HOU- 2-3 n/s daily (same as BNA)
PHX- 1 n/s daily (perhaps 2 on weekends)
MSY- 3-4 n/s daily
LAS- 1 n/s daily
MCI- 2 n/s daily, maybe 3
OAK- 1 n/s daily, and no competition (US doesn't serve OAK)
SJC- 1 n/s daily, no competition (no US in SJC either)
(up to 19 daily n/s in above markets)

I think all 40 flights will be to above cities...I think WN will do very well here, attacking US first on their bread and butter, no competition New England and Florida routes while at the same time connecting PHL passengers to the west and the big WN connecting points (MDW, HOU, LAS, PHX)...in terms of transcons (besides LAS and PHX), I would first begin markets where US doesn't have a presence but WN has it strong (thus, SJC and expecially OAK) before moving into markets US serves from PHL (SEA, SAN, and LAX)...Assuming they eventually expand the station, I'd presume they will enter these markets...

It'd be interesting if they chose:
SNA- 1 daily n/s (US is pulling out of this market)
BUR- 1 daily n/s (no competition)
ONT- 1 daily n/s (no competition)
Go Blue!!
 
mirrodie
Posts: 6796
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RE: WN To Add PHL

Wed Oct 29, 2003 12:20 am

wow, Philly, thas cool.

As of now, I beleive that out of Islip, ISP, we only fly to Tampa, Palm Beacha nd Fort Lauderdale. Too bad the ISP-PVD route was killed. Anyone think a direct ISP-PHL will be made?
Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
 
VectorVictor
Posts: 384
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RE: WN To Add PHL

Wed Oct 29, 2003 12:27 am

No other news services, so far, are making any mention of this announcement? CNBC, CBSmarketwatch, Wall Street Journal

I find that odd
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 5027
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

RE: WN To Add PHL

Wed Oct 29, 2003 12:31 am

Wow, what news to wake up to.  Big grin

Congrats to PHL. Looks like ABE and TTN won't be on the WN schedule anytime soon.

I figured it would be an assault on a hub, particularly a US hub but this was not the one I expected.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
goboeing
Posts: 2572
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 5:31 am

RE: WN To Add PHL

Wed Oct 29, 2003 12:32 am

PHL-ISP seems a little too short to make sense. PHL won't be a WN hub so I don't know who would actually buy an airplane ticket and fly that route.

Nick
 
swacle
Posts: 532
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RE: WN To Add PHL

Wed Oct 29, 2003 12:41 am

PHL won't be a WN hub

Dont count on it. For 30 years, WN has taken the route of not creating a "fortress hub", and even though we are getting 15 or so more gates in BWI, don't be suprised to see PHL act as a mini connection city. If we do good there, I think you will see around 100 flights a day in a few years. WN is smart. They know that a lot can go wrong with weather and such which in the past has totally shut down BWI. Because of this, I feel that PHL will act as a connection city for WN in the no too distant future!

Don
Aircraft Flown: SF3 DH8 DH4 328 ERJ CRJ CR7 CR9 E70 E75 D9S M80 712 72S 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 739ER 752 318 319 32
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 5027
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

RE: WN To Add PHL

Wed Oct 29, 2003 12:41 am

Here is the Dow Jones News Service (WSJ) report. They say that both the airport and airline have confirmed the news.
http://biz.yahoo.com/djus/031028/1029001138_2.html
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
ORD2PHL
Posts: 243
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 9:15 am

RE: WN To Add PHL

Wed Oct 29, 2003 12:43 am

Well PHL is certainly a shock. Being a PHL resident I can tell you that I have experienced delays everytime I have traveled in/out of the airport. Both inbound and outbound delays are bad, ground delays are bad and often circling at BUNDTS intersection can add another 45 minutes to your flight.

Although I'm generally not a fan of WN and other LCCs, I'll be glad to see a few dollars come off my tickets back to ORD on UA and US. I think that WN will have a tough time turning a/c around due to the delays at PHL.
 
PVD757
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RE: WN To Add PHL

Wed Oct 29, 2003 12:46 am

just to be devil's advocate here, what if the "shocker" is that this was a trick and it isn't PHL. I DON'T believe this to be the case, but WN has been known to have a few tricks up it's sleeve. They usually don't "let the cat out of the bag at all, so this is a bit odd...
 
L1011Fan
Posts: 232
Joined: Mon May 12, 2003 12:33 am

RE: WN To Add PHL

Wed Oct 29, 2003 12:46 am

I too hope for MHT to PHL! However, I would LUV (sorry for the pun) MHT to CLT on WN. USAir charges way too much for that segment.

 
garnetpalmetto
Posts: 5352
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RE: WN To Add PHL

Wed Oct 29, 2003 12:47 am

Well, as dissapointed as I am that it's not CAE after 2 years of negotiations, I can say I'm somewhat surprised that PHL was picked over PIT since the relations between US and PIT are somewhat shaky right now based on my reading of the news in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. One would think that if WN wanted to launch a successful assault on WN they'd start with a weaker hub like PIT...all I can say is wow.

If WN is successful in this move, I'd compare this to the aviation version of the Normandy invasion - a full assault on a heavily defended front. Kelleher definitely has a pair of brass ones for going through with this. Even though I'm a fan of US, a big  Big thumbs up to Southwest for being gutsy.
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
 
travatl
Posts: 1946
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RE: WN To Add PHL

Wed Oct 29, 2003 12:48 am

Hmmmmmm......this is interesting indeed. Word on the street here at AirTran was that PHL was going to be a focus city for transcons with the 73Gs, primarily because they didn't want to do it at BWI due to WN. I wonder what that means now....

Could this possibly be retalitory to FL for the upcoming new focus city at DFW - as well as our incursion at BWI? Granted not a direct competition with WN at DAL, but definitely on their turf - and we're going head to head on WN on Florida routes from BWI.

With the December sked....AirTran kicks up it's flying from PHL as well. 4 nonstops a day to MCO, 3 to FLL, and new service to PBI. (In addition to the nonstops to ATL, TPA, and BOS).

The next year should be very intersting for flying Philadelphians.....

Travis

1 Interview. 24 years. 3 Airlines.
 
F9Widebody
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RE: WN To Add PHL

Wed Oct 29, 2003 12:48 am

Wow, I am a little bummed, I guess we won't be seeing them at any airports in Colorado for a while. They keep having their ads saying how their name is southwest, but they fly to the northeast, northwest, southeast, and "everywhere in between." I guess they forgot about the gaping hole in the Colorado market. I suppose we wont be seeing anymore of this soon, even in COS:


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Regards,
F9W

[Edited 2003-10-28 16:53:15]
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goboeing
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RE: WN To Add PHL

Wed Oct 29, 2003 12:55 am

"Both inbound and outbound delays are bad, ground delays are bad and often circling at BUNDTS intersection can add another 45 minutes to your flight."

ORD2PHL, that's BUNTS intersection.  Big grin

Nick
 
LHR001
Posts: 966
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RE: WN To Add PHL

Wed Oct 29, 2003 1:12 am

So this was the big "shocker".... okay.... if you say so!
 
LambertMan
Posts: 1744
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:26 pm

RE: WN To Add PHL

Wed Oct 29, 2003 1:14 am

Hmm....with US drastically scaling back PIT and them choosing PHL (the hub along with CLT that is priceless to US) kind of seems like a shot in the mouth to PIT in my opinion. Just my thoughts.....
 
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FlyPIJets
Posts: 850
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2003 3:32 am

RE: WN To Add PHL

Wed Oct 29, 2003 1:35 am

Go SWA!

I wonder if there will be a RDU-PHL flight. The pharmaceutical company Gallaxo-Smith Kline has large ops in PHL and RDU.

Still, I stand by DCA. There is opportunity at that airport if an airline wants to take advantage and people who use DCA have money and fly, the two thing airlines need.

Rex Kramer: Get that finger out of your ear! You don't know where that finger's been!
 
LHR001
Posts: 966
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:56 am

RE: WN To Add PHL

Wed Oct 29, 2003 1:38 am

Why would this be considered a "shocker", afterall Southwest Airlines has a rapidly expanding base at Baltimore as well.

Good luck to Southwest Airlines. Philadelphia, has mean snow and weather delays it will be interesting to see how Philadelphia plays into the scheme of things over the next few years.

Philadelphia is now home to USA 3000, US Airways, and Air Tran (Longhaul)!

What is Southwest Airlines planning on doing. Philadelphia, does need one thing however, increased service to the West Coast.

Non-Existing Routes

PHL-SMF
PHL-RNO
PHL-PDX
PHL-GEG
PHL-ONT
PHL-BUR
PHL-BOI
PHL-ABQ

Existing Competitor Routes

PHL-SFO
PHL-SJC
PHL-LAX
PHL-SNA
PHL-SAN

Will Southwest Airlines be trying to tap into the saturated Florida market, or the Midwest market from Philadelphia. If so, US Airways may be bumping them right off of their pedestal!

It would be more to the advantage of Southwest Airlines to serve routes that have not come into play with US Airways, as above stated! This way Southwest could tap into underserved markets such as ONT, SMF, ABQ!

In any case.... GOOD LUCK!



LHR001
 
DCA-ROCguy
Posts: 4207
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2000 5:03 am

RE: WN To Add PHL

Wed Oct 29, 2003 1:44 am

Like PVD757, I'd like to see an official WN announcement before believing for sure that PHL is happening.

But if it is happening...my first thought was that of Atcboy and 727lover. Delays, delays, delays. How will WN keep up its crucial turnaround speed if they fly there? I could almost see US Airways, whose system has included PHL's delays for years, delibrately scheduling more departures on smaller a/c in order to gum the place up more. This year the network carriers have become more aggressive in fighting the LCC's, and PHL is bread and butter for US Airways.

Travis, it seems to me unlikely that WN would start a new station in retaliation for another carrier's moves. That hasn't been their style, and neither of AirTran's moves in WN backyards are clearly tailored *around* WN's business plan. In addition, David Neeleman at JetBlue just found out the cost of his one probably spite-driven market choice.

Another factor...Philadelphia City runs the airport. Philly city, has been hostile to US during the past year, trying to get control over gates. Philly city residents tend to have lower incomes than suburban residents, as in most major cities, and would benefit a lot from a WN entry at PHL. Philly mayor John Street is in the midst of a tough re-election battle. Might he want this news out early in order to help his re-election? May is a long ways off.

Jim

Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
DCA-ROCguy
Posts: 4207
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2000 5:03 am

RE: WN To Add PHL

Wed Oct 29, 2003 1:46 am

neither of AirTran's moves in WN backyards are clearly tailored *around* WN's business plan.

Umm, that should read "both of AirTran's moves..." Back to the coffee pot for more...

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
Tom in NO
Posts: 6725
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 1999 10:10 am

RE: WN To Add PHL

Wed Oct 29, 2003 1:56 am

Talked to one of our station managers a few minutes ago. He's telling me that they'll operate 40 dailies off of only 4 gates. That's about average for SWA, but considering the delay possibilities at PHL, that'll be cutting it close at times.

OK guys, time to fess up. How many of us arm-chair airline CEO's saw this one coming? Huh, huh. I know I didn't, my money was on either COS or ICT.

Tom at MSY
"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
 
haveric
Posts: 1219
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 9:31 am

RE: WN To Add PHL

Wed Oct 29, 2003 1:56 am

DCA-ROCguy -- all major media outlets in the Philadelphia region are reporting this as accurate, including quotes from WN spokespeople as well as the City Aviation Director, not known as one to outright lie...
 
UN_B732
Posts: 3532
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2001 12:57 am

RE: WN To Add PHL

Wed Oct 29, 2003 2:02 am

PHL! What about slot costs?
US...Get ready for pain!
What now?
 
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Bruce
Posts: 4947
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:46 am

RE: WN To Add PHL

Wed Oct 29, 2003 2:03 am

well, now the big question..... WHEN will southwest begin hiring for all the people they will likely need for that operation and HOW MANY? It would have to be months before May to allow time for training, etc

40 flights is likely to need a bunch of people.


bruce
Bruce Leibowitz - Jackson, MS (KJAN) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: WN To Add PHL

Wed Oct 29, 2003 2:09 am

I agree w/ Travatl-
Southwest and AirTran are starting to bump into each other; I would have considered the possibility of FL doing transcons from PHL very high before this announcement and I still think they are. WN will probably focus on the secondary California cities while FL will take LAX/SFO. Up and down the east coast, FL will take PHLBOS while WN will take PHLMHT/PVD etc. FL also has the advantage that they can serve PHLDFW; WN can't serve PHLDAL. Between WN and FL, US' future is very, very uncertain and PHL will become a much busier airport focused much more on local than connecting traffic. WN and FL have clearly factored the delay situation into account but are willing to put up w/ some of it until they push US over.

This does tremendously solidify WN in the NE but there is still a real need for more WN service in NYC. Even if they add something like SWF, they still are pulling at the peripheries of NYC rather than serving the heart of NYC as FL and B6 (and all the network carriers) do.

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