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WindowSeat
Topic Author
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Is He Taking Off Without Flaps?

Thu Oct 30, 2003 2:23 am


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Photo © Marinus Bergsma



Take a look at this picture...looks like he is taking off without any flaps extended. If so, is this normal on this type of aircraft or any other wide-body? If it is, when would the pilot not extend flaps for take off? Or did he simply forget? Has it happened before?

cheers
WindowSeat
I'm all in favour of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with keyboards.
 
deltabobo
Posts: 163
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RE: Is He Taking Off Without Flaps?

Thu Oct 30, 2003 2:25 am

He is

His slats are lowered. Look at the front of the wing, you'll see what I mean

deltabobo
Dispatchers...saving pilots from themselves and their egos since 1938!
 
flyingbronco05
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RE: Is He Taking Off Without Flaps?

Thu Oct 30, 2003 2:26 am

If I'm not mistaken, the A300 has the capability to take off without the use of flaps.

FB05
Never Trust Your Fuel Gauge
 
WindowSeat
Topic Author
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RE: Is He Taking Off Without Flaps?

Thu Oct 30, 2003 2:27 am


deltabobo,

yes, I see it, the slats are lowered...so we know he didn't forget, but is this normal?

cheers
I'm all in favour of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with keyboards.
 
qantasguy
Posts: 136
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 1:07 pm

RE: Is He Taking Off Without Flaps?

Thu Oct 30, 2003 2:28 am

You've got a good point! There are leading edge slats extended though, but I didn't think that was enough for an A300. Looks like it worked.
Airplanes Flown on..B-727-100, B-727-200, DC-9, F-27, B-707, B-717, B-737, B-747SP, B-747-100, B-747-200, B-747-300, B74
 
Capt.Fantastic
Posts: 863
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RE: Is He Taking Off Without Flaps?

Thu Oct 30, 2003 2:28 am

I noticed that too when I uploaded the photo. It certainly appears so. unless, he is retracted the gear late .... hmmmm
 
AR385
Posts: 6936
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: Is He Taking Off Without Flaps?

Thu Oct 30, 2003 2:32 am

I was on a CO A300 once from IAH to CO / KMCO), USA - Florida">MCO and we took off without flaps. The plane was pretty empty though.

AR385
 
RickB
Posts: 807
Joined: Mon May 19, 2003 3:11 am

RE: Is He Taking Off Without Flaps?

Thu Oct 30, 2003 2:36 am

The A300 is capable of taking off with no flaps as long as its not heavily loaded - seen a number of A300's take off like that.

RickB
 
coolkenla
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2003 11:55 pm

RE: Is He Taking Off Without Flaps?

Thu Oct 30, 2003 2:40 am

Interesting. Why are you assuming that the pilot (or first officer) is a "he" rather than a "she"?
 
broke
Posts: 1299
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2002 8:04 pm

RE: Is He Taking Off Without Flaps?

Thu Oct 30, 2003 2:41 am

The standard take-off for the A-300 was 8 degrees slats, no flaps. I assume that that might still be the same or similar.
On my first take-off on an A-300 as a passenger, I was going from Delhi to Calcutta on Indian Airlines in March 1977. We sat behind the left wing and my spouse (at that time) was greatly amused to watch me squirm when we started the take-off run with no flaps!
Aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!
Later that year, when Eastern got its first A-300's I found out that that was very normal. Phew!!
 
ILoveORD
Posts: 193
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RE: Is He Taking Off Without Flaps?

Thu Oct 30, 2003 2:56 am

Coolkena,

I probably shouldn't bother responding to your post and I realize that by doing so I attach my post to yours in irrelevancy, but I just can't help myself. In order to dispel your PC-inspired post, I've decided to break it down for you in layman's terms (I am an English minor). According to Patricia O'Connor, a female author/writer, "The pronouns 'he' and 'his' have been used since time immemorial to refer to people in general" (The Grammarphobe's Guide to Better English in Plain English: Putnam, 1996).

Additionally, Oxford dictionanries supplies:

"The English language unfortunately lacks a simple singular pronoun which does not specify gender. Various people have suggested new words to fill this gap, but none of them have caught on, or (frankly) are ever likely to: it is not practical to try to change such a basic element of the language by sheer will."

Because the English language lacks said singular pronoun that specifies gender (unlike other Indo-European languages), it commonly regarded that, instead of using the awkward h/she, it is still acceptable to use the generic 'he' when refering to, as O'Connor says, people in general. If you have a problem with this usage, I suggest you adopt a new language.

[Edited 2003-10-29 19:03:13]
Backhanding the left into submission, one activist judge at a time.
 
coolkenla
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2003 11:55 pm

RE: Is He Taking Off Without Flaps?

Thu Oct 30, 2003 3:03 am

ILoveORD:

Thanks for the English lesson, but the "awkward h/she" is much less awkward when properly used: s/he. The only reason I correct you is that I was an English major and there is no such notation as h/she. Also, you cannot possibly tell me that people used "he" rather than "she" because of the grammatical correctness of it all. I'm just trying to provoke some thought here. There is no doubt that most people automatically associate "pilot" with "male" "he" etc.

Cheers.
 
AT
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RE: Is He Taking Off Without Flaps?

Thu Oct 30, 2003 3:05 am


"is he taking off without flaps?"

how do we know it's a he?
 
mlsrar
Posts: 1384
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2000 7:41 am

RE: Is He Taking Off Without Flaps?

Thu Oct 30, 2003 3:12 am

how do we know it's a he?

I love it when gender bias is always left out when beautiful aircrafts are always referred to as a female noun...I think it makes up for it!
I mean, for the right price I’ll fight a lion. - Mike Tyson
 
Korg747
Posts: 502
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 5:18 am

RE: Is He Taking Off Without Flaps?

Thu Oct 30, 2003 3:14 am

never mind, Delete this post please

[Edited 2003-10-29 19:16:03]

[Edited 2003-10-29 19:16:30]
Please excuse my English!
 
Mexicana757
Posts: 2672
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2001 3:21 pm

RE: Is He Taking Off Without Flaps?

Thu Oct 30, 2003 3:24 am

If you guys dont know what gender the pilots are, just use "they." Its two pilots in the cockpit.  Big grin
 
cedarjet
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RE: Is He Taking Off Without Flaps?

Thu Oct 30, 2003 3:24 am

I remember the first time I was on an A300, don't know what the flap setting was for takeoff (but there was 400 people on board so I doubt it was 0); but no-one touched the flap level til we were on finals and the whole descent I was waiting for us to fall out of the sky. Much squirming, a la Broke.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
unattendedbag
Posts: 2193
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 10:35 pm

RE: Is He Taking Off Without Flaps?

Thu Oct 30, 2003 3:28 am

I was just doing a little research on women in Turkey.

I would be very surprised to see a female at the controls of that plane.

I have the utmost confidence in a female pilot and do not hesitate to fly when I hear a female voice over the loudspeaker, but the airline is a Turkish charter and Turkey has different views about sex than the rest of the world.

If anyone knows otherwise, please let me know, I would feel better knowing there is a possibility a female is at the reigns.
Slower traffic, keep right
 
coolkenla
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2003 11:55 pm

RE: Is He Taking Off Without Flaps?

Thu Oct 30, 2003 3:32 am

Unattendedbag..... Touche. Very good post. Undoubtedly a "he" at the controls.
 
Iberia340600
Posts: 758
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RE: Is He Taking Off Without Flaps?

Thu Oct 30, 2003 3:32 am

Coolkenla:

Next time why dont you try sticking to the topic at hand rather than making this an english lesson for all. If you want english lessons, go to weloveenglish.com or something!

THE TOPIC IS....an A300 taking off with no flaps. Who cares if the pilot is a he or she....it is totally irrelevant!

For real, this type of though it not needed here.

[Edited 2003-10-29 19:33:15]
Visca Barça!!
 
triscl
Posts: 138
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2003 4:08 am

RE: Is He Taking Off Without Flaps?

Thu Oct 30, 2003 3:45 am

I remember once taking off in a USAirways 767 in MCO (for Philly) with only slats extended. The ailerons were also down slightly, but no flaps were used. They were extended briefly, but she brought them up just before take-off.
 
Dtw757
Posts: 1270
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2003 10:05 am

RE: Is He Taking Off Without Flaps?

Thu Oct 30, 2003 4:15 am

Maybe I'm wrong but are slats not controlled by the flap lever? In other words when the flap lever is in the first notch the slats are automatically deployed.

"The ailerons were also down slightly"

Ailerons should be linked to one another. If one is down slightly, the other should be up slightly.
721,2,732,3,4,5,G,8,9,741,2,3,4,752,3,762,3,4,772,3,788,D93,5,M80,D10,M11,L10,100,AB6,319,20,21,332,3,346,388,146,CR2,7,
 
dispatch
Posts: 368
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:14 pm

RE: Is He Taking Off Without Flaps?

Thu Oct 30, 2003 4:39 am

Coolkena,
it is a Turkish airliner, safe to assume it is a "he" performing the t/o.

All other serious interested posters:
The date on this picture is October 26, most likely the aircraft is returning almost empty to Turkey, having returned the last vacationers to the Netherlands: the holiday season is over.

Peter
 
Guest

RE: Is He Taking Off Without Flaps?

Thu Oct 30, 2003 4:52 am

I'm fairly sure if she needed to extend the flaps she would have. But since she didn't do it, it must not have been a requirement for her to take off. Either way he sure was a pretty plane wasn't he?

Calling a plane he just doesn't sound right does it? Gender of the pilot, who cares!!! For now on should we use "IT" ? Planes should be she, hurricanes should definately be she. Pilots, on this site....call them what you want. We're more concerned with aircraft, not proper english.
 
ryangooner
Posts: 956
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2003 4:56 am

RE: Is He Taking Off Without Flaps?

Thu Oct 30, 2003 4:53 am

what if it was a SHE at the controls?

i am so glad this detail was brought up as i find it very hard to sleep at night when there are incorrect presumptions.

Maybe it explains why the flaps were'nt set!!!!!!!!!

Stick to the topic not correcting figures of speach!

Ryan
ooh to ooh to be ooh to be a gooner!
 
767Lover
Posts: 3254
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 6:32 am

RE: Is He Taking Off Without Flaps?

Thu Oct 30, 2003 4:56 am

Am I the only one who thinks this picture is fake (as in a stationary plane with photo-shopped effects?)
 
dispatch
Posts: 368
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:14 pm

RE: Is He Taking Off Without Flaps?

Thu Oct 30, 2003 5:03 am

Oh NO, not another is-it-a-fake-story please!!

Peter
 
User avatar
Heavierthanair
Posts: 954
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2000 11:20 pm

RE: Is He Taking Off Without Flaps?

Thu Oct 30, 2003 5:30 am

G'day

Back to the topic!

Have a look again, and you will note the flap track fairings are slightly down, and so must be the flaps. At this setting the flaps may be merely extended though and not actually "hanging" down.

All you want for take-off is lift, the "dirty" configuration with the flaps down all the way for high drag is desirable for approach and landing only.

Cheers

Peter
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." (Albert Einstein, 1879 - 1955)
 
trnswrld
Posts: 1390
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RE: Is He Taking Off Without Flaps?

Thu Oct 30, 2003 5:31 am

Coolkena,

your a moron!
 
Arrow
Posts: 2325
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2002 7:44 am

RE: Is He Taking Off Without Flaps?

Thu Oct 30, 2003 5:43 am

"Stick to the topic not correcting figures of speach!

Guess we'd better leave spelling alone, too.

Good point, Coolkenla. Almost no one on this forum (me included, I'll admit) would have visualized a lady at the controls. I took my first ten flying lessons from a woman -- and she was not only a great instructor but a great pilot, who went on to fly for Air Canada.

[Edited 2003-10-29 21:48:16]
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
coolkenla
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2003 11:55 pm

RE: Is He Taking Off Without Flaps?

Thu Oct 30, 2003 5:50 am

Thanks Arrow.

I agree, and I love it when there's a female pilot/first officer. (But lets stay on topic and keep this on the D.L., OK? According to Arrow I'm a big moron for even raising the issue!)

Cheers,
CKLA
 
che
Posts: 516
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2000 10:02 am

RE: Is He Taking Off Without Flaps?

Thu Oct 30, 2003 5:57 am

Well trying to get back on topic here:

I beileve it is quite common for Fokker 100s to do no-flap take-offs. I have flown AA F100s many times and for the most part "they" did not use the flaps.

Any other types where no flap take-offs are common?

che
 
ILoveORD
Posts: 193
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 5:20 am

RE: Is He Taking Off Without Flaps?

Thu Oct 30, 2003 6:10 am

"Also, you cannot possibly tell me that people used "he" rather than "she" because of the grammatical correctness of it all."--Coolkenna

Ryangooner et al. Great points. I agree with you all that the gender of the pilot is irrelevant.

Coolkenna:

Since you find it necessary to quibble over my mistype of 'h/she' when I'm sure you know that I mean 's/he,' I cannot help but pick apart your post as well. Having said that, I must point out, Coolkenna, that you must be 'some' English major. Not only do you make the fundamentally amateur mistake(s) of switching tense (subject-verb [dis]agreement) in the above statement (tell in the present, used in the past), but you also ignore using commas with a series of coordinate adjectives, as is clear in your last sentence (et cetera included). Nonetheless, despite these flaws, I'm sure I speak for many a.net members when I thank you for you gender-senstive insightfulness.  Big grin


"Oh, it's already been 'broughten'."
--Jamie Preesly (as Priscilla in NATM)

 Smokin cool







[Edited 2003-10-29 22:11:37]
Backhanding the left into submission, one activist judge at a time.
 
KateAV8
Posts: 93
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 4:02 am

RE: Is He Taking Off Without Flaps?

Thu Oct 30, 2003 6:40 am

Wait, uhhh, is this an aviation forum or a...LOL..."he" or "she" --- ummm...who cares? Ugh, if I had to be "pc" every day I'd be in big trouble!


Have a great day everybody!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

-Kate <--- a "she" btw...LMAO
The only justification for looking down on someone is to help them up
 
jcxp15
Posts: 989
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2001 12:05 pm

RE: Is He Taking Off Without Flaps?

Thu Oct 30, 2003 6:40 am

767Lover:

Yea the first time I saw it I was like "that doesn't even look real". The clouds etc... look like it's something that could have been from FlightSim...
 
atct
Posts: 2472
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2001 6:42 am

RE: Is He Taking Off Without Flaps?

Thu Oct 30, 2003 6:58 am

Great Pic of a good aircraft. And if im not mistaken, i dont care who you are, All aircraft are "She's" lol. Take a look at Lancair's new ad in any magazine and you'll knwo what i mean. One gorgeous aircraft.

ATCT
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