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UAL777222
Topic Author
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 11:07 am

UAL Jump Seats?

Sun Nov 02, 2003 12:25 pm

I have a quick ? about getting on a jump seat of a UAL flight. The only ways that I've been able to get in a jump seat is to ask about 10min before boarding and during the flight. My dad and his "boss" say that they can't do anything about it unless they're the acting capt. Does anyone know if you can do this ahead of time and has anyone out there been in the jump seat of a ual flight after 9/11? I tried on SFO-JFK-AMS/AMS-ORD-SFO and they wouldn't have any of it and that was a month and a half ago. I'm a 13 yr old kid who wants to be a pilot and my dad is a pilot for the airline what am I going to do?!? If anyone has any ideas about how to, I'm stumped. I'm going SFO-HKG/HKG-SFO(UAL805 & UAL 806) at the end of the month, does anyone know any ways of getting up there. If not the jump seat than just getting up to the cockpit for some pic's. I was able to do this about 12 different times before 9/11.

UAL777222
 
teahan
Posts: 4994
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 1999 11:18 pm

RE: UAL Jump Seats?

Sun Nov 02, 2003 12:33 pm

The simple answer is that you can't. I don't think there is much else to add.

Jeremiah
Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
 
bistro1200
Posts: 312
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2003 7:13 am

RE: UAL Jump Seats?

Sun Nov 02, 2003 12:52 pm

Even within the company there are only a select few employees that may JS that are not pilots. Offliners are SOL.
Measure to the millimeter, mark with a crayon, cut with an axe.
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: UAL Jump Seats?

Sun Nov 02, 2003 2:10 pm

FAR 121.547 is the US reg pertaining to access to the flight deck.

In a nutshell, unless you're employed as a pilot, dispatcher, A&P mechanic, or very senior company officer of the airline involved, or on the government side, FAA, NTSB, or Secret Service, you're not going to be able to ride jumpseat, period. Most airlines have reciprocal J/S agreements with other airlines allowing pilots and dispatchers from other airlines to ride the jumpseats of others, but post 9/11, you still fill out J/S paperwork but get a seat in the cabin.

ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
thaigold
Posts: 307
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2003 3:22 pm

RE: UAL Jump Seats?

Sun Nov 02, 2003 2:14 pm

Does this only apply for flights to the US?? I am flying to Europe with Thai in 2 weeks and was going to try to get the takeoff and landing in a jumpseat...
 
UAL777222
Topic Author
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 11:07 am

RE: UAL Jump Seats?

Sun Nov 02, 2003 2:17 pm

Then how do the people of Airliners.net get up into the cockpit during flight? I've seen pictures of major airlines in flight and during landings. They are all post 9/11.
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: UAL Jump Seats?

Sun Nov 02, 2003 2:32 pm

What I posted was the US FAR Part 121 reg, and naturally, that applies to all US-registered airliners, irrespective of whether they're operating domestically or internationally. International airlines operate under the regs of the civil aviation folks of their home country, which can and do differ from the US FARs. Thus, average folks flying non-US registered airlines in other parts of the world sometime do get the jumpseat, hence all the a.net shots. Some foriegn airlines don't.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
uadc8contrail
Posts: 1666
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:23 am

RE: UAL Jump Seats?

Sun Nov 02, 2003 2:47 pm

UAL777222.
if you can pull off a j/s on ual....let me know, i wanna get my 6yr old up there...best i can do so far is get him into the 320/777 sims in dentk.....which happened 2 weeks ago on some down time between all the contract work we do......
Bus Driver
 
AndrewAir
Posts: 337
Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2002 2:08 pm

RE: UAL Jump Seats?

Sun Nov 02, 2003 2:59 pm

On a flight from SFO-OGG-SFO on UA I asked the F/O if I can jump seat and he said "NO, SORRY". But he was nice enough to let me in the cockpit and take a few pics while we were at the gate.

Good Luck
AMc
 
JC5280
Posts: 523
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2001 12:06 pm

RE: UAL Jump Seats?

Sun Nov 02, 2003 4:06 pm

uaDC8contrail,

Do you work at TK? I was fortunate enough to fly the sims over there several years ago (crashed a 777 into san fran bay...dont worry, I am not a pilot!). I would love to get my wife in one. Do you have any info on if employees can still get in one if they know someone?

Thanks!
 
flyingbronco05
Posts: 3484
Joined: Fri May 10, 2002 11:43 am

RE: UAL Jump Seats?

Sun Nov 02, 2003 4:08 pm

I had the lucky opportunity to perform some of the checklist with the AA 767-300 crew before our flight to Hawaii from Chicago.

I was in there all the way up to the hold short line. At that point the relief pilot said I had to leave (totally understandable).

At the end of the flight I was lucky enough to get a copy of the flight flan.

I have never seen a flight plan with so many markings on it.


View Large View Medium
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Photo © Mark Abbott




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Never Trust Your Fuel Gauge
 
w_a_s_p_i_e
Posts: 170
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2002 8:43 pm

RE: UAL Jump Seats?

Sun Nov 02, 2003 9:34 pm

As others have said, you have basically no chance of getting into the jumpseat. Most UK airlines have a new policy that wont let anyone in apart from CAA officials and top company personnel. Thats it. Last August a new law was passed which changed everything. I was lucky to get 4 cockpit flights with GO Airlines under 'work-experience' but you wont be able to now unfortunately.
 
Guest

RE: UAL Jump Seats?

Mon Nov 03, 2003 12:20 am

I was in there all the way up to the hold short line. At that point the relief pilot said I had to leave (totally understandable).

What flight/crew was this? They violated rules by letting you in there after pushback. Cockpit door is to be closed and locked before the main cabin door is shut.
 
flyingbronco05
Posts: 3484
Joined: Fri May 10, 2002 11:43 am

RE: UAL Jump Seats?

Mon Nov 03, 2003 1:36 am

What flight/crew was this? They violated rules by letting you in there after pushback. Cockpit door is to be closed and locked before the main cabin door is shut.

As I said in my post: I had the lucky opportunity to perform some of the checklist with the AA 767-300 crew before our flight to Hawaii from Chicago.

They did lock the cockpit door before the main cabin door.

I thanked them for allowing me to sit in there as long as I did.

Flight 73 ORD-HNL

fb05
Never Trust Your Fuel Gauge
 
modesto2
Posts: 2731
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2000 3:44 am

RE: UAL Jump Seats?

Mon Nov 03, 2003 1:52 am

fb05, a point of clarification. You said that you were in the cockpit "all the way up to the hold short line." This statement implies that you were in the cockpit AFTER pushback, therefore violating FAA regs. Proudtoflyaa has made a valid remark.
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: UAL Jump Seats?

Mon Nov 03, 2003 5:13 am

I think it may be a case of semantics. On most checklists I've seen, there is a line that separates various sections, and I think he was referring to that line, and not the yellow hold-short line painted on the pavement before entering onto the runway.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
EMBQA
Posts: 7858
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RE: UAL Jump Seats?

Mon Nov 03, 2003 6:21 am

WoW....How many times is this question going to be asked....!!! The answer is NO.....NO ONE other then pilots, company mechanics and company dispatchers are allowed to jump seat during a flight per FAR 121.547... PERIOD..end of story. As for jumpseating when your father is PIC, I really can't answer that question, but I'd really not want to be in his shoes if he gets ramp checked by the FAA and your there.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
qqflyboy
Posts: 1635
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RE: UAL Jump Seats?

Mon Nov 03, 2003 7:24 am

Just remember, regardless of FARs, the Captain is the final authority.
The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: UAL Jump Seats?

Mon Nov 03, 2003 7:28 am

>>>Just remember, regardless of FARs, the Captain is the final authority.

Yes, but keep the proper context in mind. If the regs say no J/S riders other than those approved, etc. etc. the PIC can't legally use his/her final authority and put 'em up front anyway. The proper context of the final authority here is that if a J/S rider is legally able to ride, the PIC is the final authority as to whether they do or not.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
UAL777222
Topic Author
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 11:07 am

RE: UAL Jump Seats?

Mon Nov 03, 2003 8:12 am

EMBQA and everyone else I clearly didn't explain it enough. My father has the authority to put me in the J/S but after I'm in I'm in and it's written off as a ride along which has to be cleared by the airline and the capt. The airline has no problem with a capt.'s son and my father has been with the company for about 23yrs. So whenever I'm up there I have legal clearance and if he's on a shift where he trades out in the middle of the flight I'm out too. And the ? that I had was does anyone know how to get up into the J/S w/o family in the cockpit b/c even though im still a minor I fly a lot (about 12/16 times a year and that's by myself and my dad isn't acting capt) I was told that in 1 yrs when my dad turns 55 and he has 5yrs until he has to do the whole FAA mandatory retirement that I have higher priority and could MABE do it then but I've been in a 747-400 at the very front and there's noting like the view ahead and you cant get that anywhere except the cockpit. But if it's not possible for another year I guess that ill have to wait. Hell, I shouldn't even be complaining for many of you don't even get to go up there at all. Oh well, just trying to clear it up
 
ual777
Posts: 1642
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:18 am

RE: UAL Jump Seats?

Mon Nov 03, 2003 9:41 am

UAL777222,

My dad is a 777 cap. and I am 17. I am trying to be a pilot as you are and I can answer your question. The answer is "no." The reason for this being again the SA - North Dakota">FAR. Furthermore, 2 years ago, a pilot at SA)">UA let his wife jumpseat on his flight. He was fired because someone "ratted" on him. I think no pilot wants to jeopardize his career, especially at this moment. Some guy, "may" let you, but from everything that I have EVER heard, the answer is no (and trust me, I too have employee SA'ed quite often.)
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: UAL Jump Seats?

Mon Nov 03, 2003 9:53 am

I guess now would be a pretty good time to suggest deletion of this thread... (You never know who is reading...)  Big grin
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
EMBQA
Posts: 7858
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:52 am

RE: UAL Jump Seats?

Mon Nov 03, 2003 10:01 am

What part of mine and everyone else's answer did you not understand...? NO ONE Other then pilots, company mechanics and company dispatch are permitted in the jumpseat during a flight. If the company is allowing you to 'ride along' when he is flying that may be a UAL company policy....and the fact the he is approaching his retirement has no bearing on your admission to the flight deck.....FAR 121.547 clearly states.....You are not permitted in the cockpit during a revenue flight....!!! I have more hours in a jumpseat then I can even count, yes the view is great, but I'd much rather sit out back.

http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/cfrhtml_00/Title_14/14cfr121_00.html
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
ual777
Posts: 1642
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:18 am

RE: UAL Jump Seats?

Mon Nov 03, 2003 10:03 am

You aren't confusing me with him are you?
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
EMBQA
Posts: 7858
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:52 am

RE: UAL Jump Seats?

Mon Nov 03, 2003 10:08 am

OPNLguy...... Remember when ( I think it was Continental Express) fired the Pilot, Co-Pilot, Flight Attendent, Gate Agent at the departure airport and Non-Rev'ing employee for not following the company policy..?? Someone was watching that day......... Big grin
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: UAL Jump Seats?

Mon Nov 03, 2003 10:35 am

Over the years, I'd imagine that they were not the only ones in the industry who experienced that. Living in the post-9/11 world, with even more eyes open and watching every move, why even chance it?

If UAL777222's account is correct, but his assessment of "legality" is not, he's potentially putting his Dad's career at risk, especially by discussing it in a public forum that anyone (including FAA/TSA ) can read, research, and act upon. (Precisely why I suggested that the thread be deleted).

ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
ntspelich
Posts: 740
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 2:35 am

RE: UAL Jump Seats?

Mon Nov 03, 2003 12:30 pm

One thing that UAL777222 said has made me wonder about something:
So whenever I'm up there I have legal clearance and if he's on a shift where he trades out in the middle of the flight I'm out too

Now with the locking, reinforced anti-terrorist doors, what's the procedure for when someone leaves the cockpit? I mean, I hate to play devil's advocate, but who's to say that someone in F or C or whatever happens to be located directly behind the cockpit on that particular a/c won't rush the door at that time? Not being anywhere near a pilot, or knowing any personally for that matter, I was just curious what procedures had been set up. I mean, it could be as weak of spot as not screening cargo.

NS

United 717 heavy, you're facing the wrong way. Any chance you can powerback to get off of my deice pad?
 
UAL777222
Topic Author
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 11:07 am

RE: UAL Jump Seats?

Mon Nov 03, 2003 1:18 pm

My fathers job is not a risk what I was trying to say is that this was all ok and cleared with the airline and this all happened before 9/11 and after 9/11 it has all stopped and what I was wondering is how can you get clearance to get up there. My father would never put me up there after 9/11. I have asked many many times to have him ask to have me up there but they just tell him no. When I asked him how to get clearance as a civilian not a family member he didn't know. That's what I'm trying to ask. Is there any org. or company that you can pay to get up there. If anyone has taken these comments in the wrong way you can e-mail me at [email protected] and I would be more than happy to explain it all out.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 13043
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RE: UAL Jump Seats?

Mon Nov 03, 2003 1:24 pm

There's nothing to explain. There's no organization to join, there's no payment you can make. The FARs are clear. You don't belong in there.

You don't need to constantly be in the jumpseat to become a pilot either. Cherish the experiences you've already had and take care of business.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
UAL777222
Topic Author
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 11:07 am

RE: UAL Jump Seats?

Mon Nov 03, 2003 1:28 pm

To the answer of how they did and still do the changes. If you have the chance to see when a pilot goes to the bathroom or changes the head stewardess takes a beverage cart or a food cart and blocks the area and they are behind the cart so if someone were to rush the cockpit they can shut the cockpit door and could block the passage and that was before 9/11 I know now that on some jumbos they have bathrooms that when both doors are open they block the path and are lached together like the handicap bathrooms but that's what I've heard. As open as pilots are about most things my own father won't talk much about it to me except that in the unfortunate case that someone were to storm the cockpit that they would have a hell of a time getting in.
 
VC-10
Posts: 3552
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 1999 11:34 am

RE: UAL Jump Seats?

Mon Nov 03, 2003 5:59 pm

I'm a 13 yr old kid

Funny, your profile says you're 16 - 20 y.o.

my dad is a pilot & My father has the authority to put me in the J/S

If your father was a pilot he would know that the FAA no longer allows non-operating crew in the flight deck. You must have a very funny relationship with your father it he hasn't explained that to you.
 
UAL777222
Topic Author
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 11:07 am

RE: UAL Jump Seats?

Tue Nov 04, 2003 4:40 am

If you didn't know the difference between me and my brother than you should read my proflile and as i said before it all happened before 9/11
 
AA777MIA
Posts: 671
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 10:30 am

RE: UAL Jump Seats?

Tue Nov 04, 2003 11:04 am

What part of NO don't you get... You cannot get up there... The only J/S people allowed in the cockpit anymore are actual Crewmembers of the airline. Even other airlines are not allowed to sit in the cockpit anymore in flight. If the J/S, there has to be an empty cabin seat for them to occupy. Cherish the past, cause I do not think it will happen again...
 
bistro1200
Posts: 312
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2003 7:13 am

RE: UAL Jump Seats?

Tue Nov 04, 2003 11:41 am

No kidding kid. Give it a rest. If you REALLY want to sit in the jumpseat, you can:

-Become a pilot
-Become a dispatcher
-Become a Senior Vice President on an airline
-Become an FAA inspector
-Become a member of the United States Secret Service

Unless you are one of those, enjoy the window seat.
Measure to the millimeter, mark with a crayon, cut with an axe.
 
VC-10
Posts: 3552
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 1999 11:34 am

RE: UAL Jump Seats?

Tue Nov 04, 2003 8:26 pm

The bit I don't get is he claims his father is a Capt. So why hasn't Dad told him it is no longer possible?
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: UAL Jump Seats?

Tue Nov 04, 2003 10:29 pm

>>>The bit I don't get is he claims his father is a Capt. So why hasn't Dad told him it is no longer possible?

Probably because he hasn't been asked. If his Dad saw this thread, and saw his potential exposure, I think he'd set things straight PDQ...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
Guest

RE: UAL Jump Seats?

Wed Nov 05, 2003 1:36 am

Hi,I got in the cockpit 2 times with Alitalia on a 777 (unforntunately not in-flight) and 2 times also with Air France 777 (not in-flight),and 2 times with Air France in an A320(not in-flight). I also got to be in an Fedex MD-10 (not inflight),I got to go in the MD-10 because my friends father works for Fedex. This all happened in 2003. Bye
 
kaitakfan
Posts: 1547
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 1999 1:04 pm

RE: UAL Jump Seats?

Wed Nov 05, 2003 3:07 am

The concepts have been explained very well here. Why is it so hard for people to understand it?!? I really laugh when people say my daddy is this and that at UA or AA. Yeah thats great that they have such a well respectable position, but it does not change the fact that there is legal guidelines around jumpseating for certain people. My mom has been with United for 16 years now, that never got me in a jumpseat, except on ID90's with Cathay Pacific and Air New Zealand. We have many family friends that fly the 777 and 747 for United Airlines, each and everyone of them say that they would never risk their jobs to have a friend or family member in the flight deck with them. Also, UA777222, if you are serious about being on 805 and 806 to HKG at the end of this month, I wish you the best of luck. incase you didnt notice each and everyday for the SFO-HKG and ORD-HKG goes out oversold.

Tuesday Nov, 4th 2003
805-SFO-HKG 12:20 19:05 14-14-15 73-79-15 260-276-02 744

Thats how bad it is today and its a Tuesday! one of the best days to travel standby!

FlyingBronco, can you make your jumpseat stories anymore unreal?? If the crews at AA really allow you to perform duties of the flight crew... that is extremely scary to know!
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 13043
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

RE: UAL Jump Seats?

Wed Nov 05, 2003 3:22 am

LOL KaiTak, I want your employee database access  Big grin
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
ual777
Posts: 1642
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:18 am

RE: UAL Jump Seats?

Wed Nov 05, 2003 7:59 am

Kaitakfan,

If he tries to go on Fri. it isn't too bad: 14-2-3;73-31-00; 260-188-00....
Sat. is wide open too.....Maybe SARS is scaring people again........oh wait, he wants to SA on the jumpseat, thats 00-00-00 i.e. NO CHANCE
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
kaitakfan
Posts: 1547
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 1999 1:04 pm

RE: UAL Jump Seats?

Wed Nov 05, 2003 9:17 am

Holy jesus!! I cant beleive an HKG flight is that wide open! I have been looking usually everyday at school to see flight loads to HKG and SYD (My favourite places to non-rev to). I cant remember one day when there was actually open seats in premium classes! Hope you can actually make it over there UAL777222!
 
kaitakfan
Posts: 1547
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 1999 1:04 pm

RE: UAL Jump Seats?

Thu Nov 06, 2003 5:04 am

UAL777, just curious did you get those numbers on UA805 from Skynet? Bored again between classes, I was checking loads and they are oversold in all classes again for this friday and saturday looks worse! I kind of miss the late 90's when it was so easy to get on a flight to Asia as a standby! Now its nearly impossible!

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