Given the extra costs involved to move in at one time, how is it going to afford it's new 777 expansion, among other plans, I guess the much improved profit will help.


Just of the press.

"YEARS of chaos at Heathrow following the construction of a fifth terminal will be averted, said airports operator BAA on Thursday after signing a deal with British Airways.

BAA said the agreement will see the flag carrier move all operations into Terminal 5 in one go when it is ready in the spring of 2008, rather than over a transitional period which was set to extend to 2012.

BAA will now have to accelerate the full fitting out of T5 and spend an extra £100m on the project, taking the total cost to £4bn.

It says it will fund the extra cost itself from the operational efficiencies of BA moving out of all the other terminals. "

Will T5 be big enough to take BA plus all Oneworld, or even BA alone ? That will be one HUGE monster operation doing that transfer all at once.

This is not news as such. I think everyone in the know at LHR has been saying for years that when T5 was built it would be the domain of BA.

No suprise there. T5 is a massive terminal, almost like an airport itself so i'd imagine 1world would fit.

I hope that EI moves over as well. I would love to not have to face the current 10 minute walk down the tube to reach the Irish flights section of T1 !

EIDW.

I had been under the impression that T5 would take over all of BA's overseas flights from T4, and that the regional/domestic flights would move to T4 from T1.

Is T5 going to handle ALL flights then - overseas, European, and domestic? If so, that's a huge operation.

How many gates is T5's first phase going to have? I have seen renderings that show the main terminal block with only about 12 jetbridges attached to it. That's not much, and it would almost be a step backwards to handle the rest of BA's flights with buses and airstairs.

What are the current plans for T5?? i.e., how large, how many gates/parking positions, etc. Is there any website on the construction??

I see Terminal 5 at LHR to be all BA operation plus operations from its OneWorld partners, AA, CX, and QF. That means T5 will likely need A380-800 compatible gates since QF plans to fly the A388 on the SYD-BKK-LHR Kangaroo Route.

There's now way they will be able to fit all of BA into T5 as well as QF/AA/CX/EI/AY/IB - AA alone have about 6 gates at T3. T5 has 10 or 12 gates in the main building plus 2 midfield concourses (or 3), but I don't now how many gates that will total - but I don't think it will be as may as all of T4 plus 2/3 T1 + half T3 plus whatever 2 or 3 IB gates at T2.

Could anyone please point me toward a site (or sites) that has a visual overview of the LHR terminals, and how T5 will change LHR? General T5 info would also be appreciated! Thanks...

Could anyone please point me toward a site (or sites) that has a visual overview of the LHR terminals


View Large View Medium

Photo © Dean Barnes

The area at the top/center of the photo will be T5... a monster of a terminal!

I had been under the impression that T5 would take over all of BA's overseas flights from T4, and that the regional/domestic flights would move to T4 from T1.

That would be unlikely, given BA's current shift of some longhaul services to T1 to minimise terminal transfers for connecting passengers (whether that happens, remains to be seen as I understand some shorthauls are moving to T4 to make way for the second phase of shifts in summer 2004).

In terms of connecting traffic, it would make the most sense to me to move BA, QF, CX and maybe EI to T5, and centralise the remaining oneworld airlines at another terminal.

To see lots of pretty pictures, and to see a huge detailed map of T5 (Plan View) follow this link...

http://www.baa.com/doc/c1d356a63ae99fb380256d2c004d99ca_main.html

"Airlines protest over BAA's terminal 5 'stitch-up'

Andrew Clark
Friday November 7, 2003
The Guardian

BAA was accused by leading airlines yesterday of delivering a "classic stitch-up" by spending an extra £100m to allow British Airways to move into Heathrow's fifth terminal early.
The airport operator announced it was pumping additional cash into the new £3.9bn facility at Britain's biggest airport so that BA can shift all its flights during 2008, rather than phasing the move over four years. Rival airlines rounded on BAA with complaints of preferential treatment for the national flag carrier. They say BA will be by far the biggest beneficiary of the facility, which is being funded by increases in charges to all carriers flying from Heathrow.

A Virgin Atlantic spokesman said: "We are very, very concerned by this.

"It's all too clear that BA will benefit from terminal five to a greater extent and more quickly because of this investment.

"It's your classic stitch-up. BA will have a shiny new terminal with state of the art facilities. We will want to see equivalent benefits for the other airlines staying in the central terminal area."

BAA's chief executive, Mike Clasper, said money to speed up the move would be found by cutting investment on extra baggage, check-in and connections facilities at existing terminals. He said these would not be needed because BA's early departure would ease overcrowding.

But the second largest carrier from Heathrow, BMI British Midland, demanded "clarification" of the cutbacks. A BMI spokesman said: "There could be concern if the facilities being offered to BMI and the Star Alliance are not of equal standard to those provided to BA."

The row erupted as BAA delivered an upbeat progress report on the terminal, which is 28% complete and ahead of schedule.

BA and Qantas, along with a handful of partners from their OneWorld alliance, will be the only airlines allowed to use the new building.

The airport operator struck an optimistic note regarding recovery in the aviation industry, despite revealing a 4.3% fall in half-year pre-tax profits to £312m.

Mr Clasper said: "The world has recovered from Sars and the war in Iraq.

"You do get a sense that things are picking up here and there for the airlines."

Profits increased by 2% during the three months to September, reversing a 6.3% fall in preceding quarter. Half-year passenger numbers at BAA's eight airports in the UK rose by 2.5% to 72m. "

In response to the last post I can see where VS and BD have concerns as BA will have the newest and biggest terminal and it will be to the exclusive use of themselves and their partners but at the same time one must also realize that BA is also by far the largest airline at LHR and one with the most unique position in having their operations scattered over three terminals (principally T1 and T4) and that they have the most to gain from having their operations centralized into one terminal. If VS has a few hundred flights a day from LHR a large percentage of which is connecting traffic, then I'd agree with their standpoint more. I can understand their concern that the BAA is spending more money which is levied onto all carriers while benefiting maybe 5, the fact is that with BA out of T1, T3, and T4, they'll have much more room to do projects in the existing terminals. And let's face it, part of the reason VS and BD are worried is because BA will have something shiny and new while they're still stuck in T1 and T3.

LH423

Any news on how the terminals will shift?

Might we see Terminal 4 become the domain of Star Alliance?

-Derek

LHR is such an abortion of an airport, its no wonder VS and BD are crying foul that not only is BA getting a brand new shiny bespoke "all-under-one-roof" terminal, but BAA is actually taking money away from improvements to existing terminals to pay for T5 to be able to take all of BA at once. Pretty unreasonable. Even once BA are in T5, none of the central terminals will be in a fit state to house an alliance operation.

All the terminals are badly in need of refurbishment, the only decent bit of any of them is the new widebody pier tacked onto T1 (yet another 1.5 km schlepp for the poor bloody pax !)

I guess in an ideal world, the terminals could be divvied up as follows

T1 - non-aligned carriers short / medium haul

T2 - Skyteam until SA)">DL get LHR rights (could bolt on the T1 longhaul pier for SA)">DL, as they connect via T1/T2 Flight Connections centre) + non-aligned serviced by AF/KL (MK, KM etc)

T3 - Star Alliance + VS (you'd need to add a domestic pier for BD or bolt on a connection between T3 Arrivals and the UK/EI pier on T1) + non-aligned longhaul with Star domestic codeshare (SA, GF, BI)

T4 - Non-aligned long-haul (AACO + AI, PK, JL, UL, BW, JM etc)

T5 - BA + Oneworld

Can anyone estimate how many arrivals/departures that the non BA oneWorld carrier offer at LHR? I presume IB or EI have the most? How does that fit into the T5 scheme?

T5 is big enrough to fit all

I would expect UL to move to T5 for one reason:BA to Toronto.