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John
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Will WN Beef Up PVD & MHT To Combat B6 At BOS?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 2:35 pm

Specifically, do you think they'll consider Non-stops to the west coast from PVD or MHT? I'll bet they will....
 
Trvlr
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RE: Will WN Beef Up PVD & MHT To Combat B6 At BOS?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 3:40 pm

I hope so. But it may very well be in vain, unless they can undercut jetBlue's prices. I think B6's choice of BOS over PVD or MHT essentially kills Southwest's chance of succeeding in any market B6 enters, simply because BOS is much more convenient than, well, another state. However, if Southwest can find enough passengers closer to PVD or MHT who would support transcon flights, more power to them!

Aaron G.
 
WNfan
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RE: Will WN Beef Up PVD & MHT To Combat B6 At BOS?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 3:48 pm

MHT-LAS, PVD-PHX, MHT-MDW, and PVD-MDW are already doing well. The new jetBlue BOS-DEN and BOS-Florida runs don't quite compete with what WN already has going west. I predict we may see BOS-LGB and BOS-OAK from B6 in the next few months, but remember that HP now has some BOS-California service.

And as for the Florida runs, the dinosaurs have enough market share from New England for both B6 and WN to thrive from their respective airports. BOS, PVD, MHT -- it doesn't really matter. The planes will be full, and at lower fares than what people were paying before.
 
LH423
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RE: Will WN Beef Up PVD & MHT To Combat B6 At BOS?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 4:13 pm

WNfan, B6 has already announced service to LGB out of BOS. It's expected to start about 3 weeks after B6 enters Boston in early January.

LH423
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 
John
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RE: Will WN Beef Up PVD & MHT To Combat B6 At BOS?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 11:40 pm

Yea, B6 will have quite a bit of competition to contend with at BOS. I can see the yield deteriorating for AA, UA, US and DL in a knockdown, dragout fare war.
 
richierich
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RE: Will WN Beef Up PVD & MHT To Combat B6 At BOS?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 11:53 pm

I agree with WNfan... JetBlue is not looking to go head-to-head with WN at Boston. In fact, I think these two airlines would like to avoid direct competition with each other where at all possible.

AS we saw with WN selecting PHL, it is not always possible. WN owns Baltimore, JetBlue has a low fare hold in IAD and now WN will have at least a strong presence in PHL. Who knows about BOS. I think JetBlue will do very well because many Bostonites are not going to want to drive to Manchester or Providence (or Hartford for that matter) if they don't have to. But these airports all have a large catchment area of people as it is, so Southwest will hardly suffer IMO.

The really interesting fight is going to be JetBlue vs. Delta in BOS. I'm sure Song will show a much larger presence there in the next few months as that is Delta's only hope at winning people over from B6. We shall see...

BTW, I have heard that JetBlue may be starting BOS to LGB flights in January but I am not positive if this has been confirmed yet.
None shall pass!!!!
 
JGPH1A
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RE: Will WN Beef Up PVD & MHT To Combat B6 At BOS?

Tue Nov 11, 2003 12:13 am

Trvlr - I would disagree that BOS is necessarily a more convenient airport than MHT or PVD - it depends where in MA you happen to be. Now that they have started to improve the roads serving Logan, its getting easier to get to the airport, but it can still be a nightmare. From most places north of where they're putting in that new bridge for the Big Dig, it seems that MHT is just easier to get to and much cheaper to park. My brother lives in northern MA/NH border and he much prefers it if I fly into/out of MHT (not possible if I'm coming from overseas, but if I'm flying US domestic, if I want to go from BOS I have to catch the Logan Express !
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
jetsetsteve
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RE: Will WN Beef Up PVD & MHT To Combat B6 At BOS?

Tue Nov 11, 2003 10:29 am



B6 WILL HAVE 2 FLIGHTS OUT OF BOS TO LGB. AN EARLY MORNING FLIGHT AND A REDEYE. STARTS 1/16/04
 
PVD757
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RE: Will WN Beef Up PVD & MHT To Combat B6 At BOS?

Tue Nov 11, 2003 11:52 am

PVD and MHT will always be more convenient to people who live outside the beltway for BOS (rt 128). The parking is cheaper at both, the facilities are generally nicer, and it is usually quicker to get from home onto an airplane at PVD/MHT than BOS. Having said that, BOS will always be king of NE airports for its shear size and frequency of service to many more destinations (especially international). The key up here in NE is that each airport has a large populus of passengers to pull from. There is enough demand for PVD and MHT to support service to the top 20/25 destinations plus a few niche markets. While B6 will fill thier flights, I suspect it will come from those passengers inside the beltway and/or passengers fleeing AA/UA/US/DL seeking lower fares and B6's service. Think of someone who lives in say, the city of Providence. Is that person now going to drive 1+ hours to BOS, pay more for parking, get lost in an airport that is always under construction, and wait in longer lines to pay the same fare to Orlando than driving 15 minutes to PVD for a less stressful experience? NO! MHT has the same thing going for it. WN has a strong hold to it's NE passengers and will continue to grow and succeed regardless of what happens in BOS. The majority of routes not currently offered from PVD nonstop that BOS may have has enough daily passengers to support the PVD service (FLL 500 pax/day, LAX 450 pax/day, PBI 360 pax/day, LAS 300 pax/day, SAN 290 pax/day, etc.) Once WN introduces nonstops on these routes, it will actually attract MORE passengers to the market by grabbing those passengers who might have driven to BOS to get on the nonstop!
 
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chrisnh
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RE: Will WN Beef Up PVD & MHT To Combat B6 At BOS?

Tue Nov 11, 2003 12:45 pm

The key battle to watch, as was correctly stated here, is the Delta/Song v. JetBlue tussle. JetBlue coming into Boston--a HUGE Delta fortress--conjures up images of JetBlue waltzing into Atlanta. And we saw what happened there. Delta will do what it needs to protect its turf at Logan...they aren't pouring hundreds of millions into their new Logan terminal just to see JetBlue eat away market share. And Song can pretty much snap its fingers and (with some white and green paint) turn a mainline 757 into a Song 757. In other words, where Song needs to quickly ramp up service to vanquish a competitor, they're ready and able to do so. By comparison, JetBlue needs to wait in the queue for more A320s from Airbus...not to mention the RJs that are still years away. In my view, JetBlue failing in Atlanta causes a raised eyebrow ('How could someone so 'brilliant' as Neeleman screw up with such a bad decision?'). If Boston doesn't work out for JetBlue, that's TWO raised eyebrows...and gone will be the bloom on the JetBlue rose.

Now, as for MHT and PVD: People are noting how much more convenient Logan is now. Huh? The other correct point made here is that Logan is the more convenient airport for those within the Route 128 beltway. True, that's a big population base. But outside the Route 128 belt lies an even larger population base, and for those people PVD and MHT are largely better choices. Few people who have flown into or out of MHT (or PVD) have decided that 'Logan is better.' If you want several extra notches on the blood pressure scale, then by all means Logan 'is the place you oughta be.'

Will Southwest ramp up at either (or both) of those airports? Well, the talk up here is that architectural work is underway on yet another expansion at MHT...this one a four-gate extension going down along the 'B' side where Southwest is now. Right now, there are a good four or five overnight Southwest 737s that are remotely parked at MHT...to go along with two or three at the gates. The early-morning outbound Southwest bank at MHT is pretty impressive, so I can see why they might want at least two more gates...perhaps all four of the new ones on the drawing board.

In the end, the lines of distinction will blur: JetBlue will, in time, be at MHT. Same with Song. In time, it will be hard for Southwest, JetBlue, and Song to 'stay away from each other.' Not if each airline wants to grow. Simple math tells you that.
 
John
Topic Author
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RE: Will WN Beef Up PVD & MHT To Combat B6 At BOS?

Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:25 pm

PVD757, I still find the passenger numbers per day to any South Florida airport from PVD is more than a signal for someone to get on the ball! And Southwest's seasonal 'SATURDAY ONLY' Non-stop to FLL ain't cuttin' it! And US just announced a Sat. only MCO, but WHY? WN already has 3 daily non-stops already in that market, for cripe sakes! Any word on the rumored AA flight to MIA?
 
PVD757
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RE: Will WN Beef Up PVD & MHT To Combat B6 At BOS?

Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:48 pm

John - it has been in the rumor mill for a while now hasn't it? The only way AA adds MIa is probably after the MIA terminal opens and if AA gets another jetbridge that actually works. Their current one has more bubble gum holding it together than Bazooka Joe. I think it will be just a matter of time if both of those things happen.
 
PVD757
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RE: Will WN Beef Up PVD & MHT To Combat B6 At BOS?

Tue Nov 11, 2003 10:20 pm

John, also, to answer your questions WHY? (more MCO flights) WN actually has 4 dailys each way on the route. Last August, we lost our 2 daily DLX flights there and the market is the second biggest from PVD (1215 pax/day). So if you do the math (137 seats on WN 737's x 8 = 1096) there is still not enough supply for the demand, not to mention that WN routes pax thru MCO to FLL (as we know there is no FLL nonstops) dilluting the availalbe MCO seats. US's move on the sat. only from PVD is a no-brainer. Use an aircraft that would have gone out half full to PIT or DCA and send it FULL to MCO.
 
airbazar
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RE: Will WN Beef Up PVD & MHT To Combat B6 At BOS?

Wed Nov 12, 2003 12:07 am

MHT, PVD, and BOS do not compete with each other. They each serve different areas. MHT serves people who live North and West of Boston. PVD serves all the areas South and West of Boston, while BOS serves the whole of greater Boston, which by itself is a pretty large market. For example, I live about 10 miles North of Boston, and MHT is still not convenient enough for me.

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