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N62NA
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AA Getting Rid Of A300?

Sun Nov 30, 2003 1:56 am

In another post, it was stated,


BTW: i think AA is getting ride of there A300 with in 5 years from what ive been told..


Anybody know (or care to speculate) what they'll replace them with? I would hope they would be 763s and NOT 752s.

 
Leskova
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RE: AA Getting Rid Of A300?

Sun Nov 30, 2003 2:00 am

Well, replacing them with 752s might prove difficult with production of it just about over... I'd guess that they'll be using a mix of 763s and 777s, depending on the routes - or, if that's available in time, the 7e7...

But, then again, this is all speculation as it is...
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N62NA
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RE: AA Getting Rid Of A300?

Sun Nov 30, 2003 2:01 am

777s would be great, but I don't see that much airplane being used on routes such as EWR-MIA, JFK-MIA, BOS-MIA, etc.
 
Leskova
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RE: AA Getting Rid Of A300?

Sun Nov 30, 2003 2:06 am

True - who knows, maybe they'll even use 738s or, to be ordered, 739s on those routes...

For the caribbean routes I'd venture the guess that they'll probably have no choice but to go to 777s - I heard, correct me if I'm wrong - that they're using the A300s here because they cannot get enough cargo into the 763s (ok, aside from the fact that the A300 holds more pax as well)...

But 777 would be a bit much on those MIA routes... would be interesting to know if they'd build up a fleet of "domestic" or "high density" 777s for that...
Smile - it confuses people!
 
Ealsys1
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RE: AA Getting Rid Of A300?

Sun Nov 30, 2003 2:15 am

PURE SPECULATION HERE!!! The A300 seats 250 in AA's configuration making it their highest density aircraft as currently configured. The 777's as currently configured seat 224 or 245 in a 3 class configuration (Per AA's web site) It seems that size wise, AA would need to replace the A300 with a 777 due to passenger load and cargo load. But from what has been discussed here, I don't think the A300's are going anywhere in the near future.
 
Leskova
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RE: AA Getting Rid Of A300?

Sun Nov 30, 2003 2:21 am

I'm well aware that this is all speculation, probably as much as the "American will never buy Airbusses in the future because of the fight after the A300 crash in New York" - I was always surprised at that p!ssing contest that AA and Airbus got into at the time, after all what good is it to point at each other while the final report hasn't been published (not to mention that, at the time of their fight, the investigation into the accident wasn't even completed): bad judgement from both sides at that point...

But, again, this is all speculation...
Smile - it confuses people!
 
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RE: AA Getting Rid Of A300?

Sun Nov 30, 2003 2:25 am


But from what has been discussed here, I don't think the A300's are going anywhere in the near future.

Granted. So you think we'll see them 5 years from now? 10 years? And when the day DOES come, will we see a switch to narrowbodies (752 and 73x) or will they be forced to go with the 763s and 772s?

I don't think 7E7 would make sense given it's very long range capabilities.
 
AA717driver
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AA CFO Resignation...

Sun Nov 30, 2003 2:27 am

AA may want to whittle the fleet down but lift is lift. The A300 fleet is young and cannot be cheaply replaced. Two 737's to do the same work as an A300?

AA cannot spend much money on capital projects(including aircraft acquisition) while the $20B in debt is on the books. They will replace the F100's with CRJ's for Eagle(why replace one type of 80-90 seater on mainline with another type, ie. EMB 170/190?) and take the 737's already on order and try to service the debt and eake out a profit. IMO.TC
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AA767400
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RE: AA Getting Rid Of A300?

Sun Nov 30, 2003 2:30 am

AA Will get rid of the A300. For the simple fact that it is a mechanical
nightmare. It is always having issues, and these issues will be what
seals their fate. They will replace them the with 763 and 757. If this
were a couple more years later, the A330 would have been the ideal
equipment for what the 300's do now. And AA would not have any issues
with the 330. Now that AA and Airbus have a rather tense relationship,
I don't see any future Airbus aircraft in their fleet. AA Has said that they
are going for a all Boeing fleet. Which is sad because, I think that the
330 is a great aircraft and would meet if not surpass all expectations on
the current 300's routes. But, in the end it is all about fleet commonality.
The current 763 and 757 will take over the gap, left behind the A300.
"The low fares airline."
 
rjpieces
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RE: AA A300's To Hawaii

Sun Nov 30, 2003 2:35 am

I would say most likely the 7E7. Remember N62NA that the 7E7 will have three versions.

The 767 is too small to be a replacement. I don't think they would go for Airbus again since the crash. The 777 is TOO big a replacement. SQ tried to replace Airbuses with 777s and they aren't happy with them. The 777 is too big of a plane to be flying those routes. They will probably hold on to the A300s until the 7E7 is available and until they have better financing to pay for the aircraft.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
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RE: AA Getting Rid Of A300?

Sun Nov 30, 2003 2:38 am


I would say most likely the 7E7. Remember N62NA that the 7E7 will have three versions.

Oops. Forgot about the short-range version of 7E7. That would be great if it does happen!
 
Bobs89irocz
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RE: AA Getting Rid Of A300?

Sun Nov 30, 2003 2:41 am

Since i was the one that made the initial statement i will also comment.

the AA and Airbus relationship isn't as bad as some people think, they sure aren't buddy buddy but its all a stupid grudge.

When the A300 goes out of service i believe it will be replaced by a mix of 763 and 777.

The A300 (as stated above) has more seats than any other AA aircraft. But with a new configuration the 777 could EASYLY surpass the A300.

Yes im aware the A300 fleet isn't that old, however they will stay with AA for awhile to come but take not of this. The A300 is next to go when the time comes after the F100. AA loves there 757s/767s/777s.......once the 7E7 is here and getting into swing with AA you better believe that the A300 isnt going to stick around.
 
ssides
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RE: AA Getting Rid Of A300?

Sun Nov 30, 2003 2:52 am

The A300 will likely be around for at least 5 years, but probably 10. By that time, the 7E7 should be close to rolling off the assembly line. Should be perfect.
"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
 
AA767400
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RE: AA Getting Rid Of A300?

Sun Nov 30, 2003 3:08 am

The A300 will be gone before the 7E7 even gets here.
"The low fares airline."
 
Ealsys1
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RE: AA Getting Rid Of A300?

Sun Nov 30, 2003 3:21 am

AA767400,

Are you an AA employee? What makes you so certain and adamant about your points? Where do you get your information? If you have the inside scoop, clue us in!
 
atrude777
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RE: AA Getting Rid Of A300?

Sun Nov 30, 2003 3:29 am

If AA goes all boeing that means the S80's will be gone too because they are not boeing made aircrfats they are under McDonnel-Douglas, or is it considered a Boeing aircraft now?

Alex.
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
bmacleod
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RE: AA Getting Rid Of A300?

Sun Nov 30, 2003 3:34 am

All McDonnell-Douglas airliners are listed under Boeing commercial aircraft on their website, so its safe to say that they're designated Boeing....

"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
bmacleod
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RE: AA Getting Rid Of A300?

Sun Nov 30, 2003 3:36 am

If AA 300s are retired, then United, US Air and Northwest will be the only major US carriers to have airbus in their fleets.
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
tekelberry
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RE: AA Getting Rid Of A300?

Sun Nov 30, 2003 4:21 am

No aircraft in AA's fleet holds enough cargo for the routes the AB6s fly. AA is not in a solid financial state at this time to be ordering more airplanes. The only viable replacement I see for the AB6 is the 7E7, which would be available sometime in 2007/2008. AA may be financially stronger by then.
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: AA Getting Rid Of A300?

Sun Nov 30, 2003 4:26 am

The 753 is still in production. The obvious chioce would be the 753. Superior economics for sure. Seats 243 in two class configuration. Very close on performance as well.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
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Heavierthanair
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RE: AA Getting Rid Of A300?

Sun Nov 30, 2003 4:50 am

G'day

AA bought the busses simply because the 767 did not do the short hop high density job quite as economically. Why would they want to replace the A300's with 767's now? Nothing has changed really. The 777 equally is not suited for short hops, likely an overkill considering the costs of operating them on short hauls. The 787 eh 7E7?, lets wait and see, the short hauler surely has last priority for Boeing. With the A300's having considerable useful life left they will be around at AA for some time to come. I do not believe the priority of replacing the busses is very high for AA, besides I doubt they have the cash to do so in the current environment. Maybe its just me not seeing an alternative for some time to come.

My $ 0.02

Cheers

Peter
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." (Albert Einstein, 1879 - 1955)
 
CanadianNorth
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RE: AA Getting Rid Of A300?

Sun Nov 30, 2003 5:01 am

if you ask me a shorter range version of the 7E7 would be the best choice...


CanadianNorth
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rjpieces
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RE: AA Getting Rid Of A300?

Sun Nov 30, 2003 5:09 am

And it just so happens the Short Range version of the 7E7 is going to be the first one, due out in 2008.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
A340600
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RE: AA Getting Rid Of A300?

Sun Nov 30, 2003 5:12 am

When were the busses delivered???
Sam Smile


















Despite the name I am a Boeing man through and through!
 
A340600
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RE: AA Getting Rid Of A300?

Sun Nov 30, 2003 5:25 am

How many do they have, isn't it 32???
Sam
Despite the name I am a Boeing man through and through!
 
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chrisnh
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RE: AA Getting Rid Of A300?

Sun Nov 30, 2003 5:40 am

I believe that aircraft are sometimes chosen for particular routes based not on their passenger-hauling capabilities, but on their cargo-hauling capacity. The A300-600s used out of Boston to the Caribbean and Miami may be such a case (though not sure). I don't know if the freight is mostly going to the Caribbean or coming from there, but the plane needed for the A300 routes might well need to be chosen for the belly space rather than the upstairs seating space.

Chris in NH
 
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RE: AA Getting Rid Of A300?

Sun Nov 30, 2003 5:45 am

They still have 34 of those, all A300-600's. They had 35, minus one that crashed in New York City two years ago. They were delivered in the late 80's/early 90's. I don't think they'll be gone anytime soon, they'll stay in the fleet longer than the Fokkers will. American said they would be getting rid of the Fokkers but they didn't say they would be getting rid of the Airbus. They (the A300's)'ll be around till at least early next decade. I think that by the time the 7E7 enters service, American will still have A300's. They will still be based in JFK and MIA and operated on flights to the Carribean and Latin America. They are not that old and they are fitted with large cargo bins so they can still serve for years to come. However I do beleive they won't order any new Airbus for two reasons: American decided to go all-Boeing back in the mid 90's and the other reason is American and Airbus Industries are not "friends" anymore since the disaster of flight 587. If they add 757's and 767's they'll pick those in the second hand market or from other operators, it's unlikely they'll order more 767's from Boeing, of course no more new 757's since the end of the production is near for that one. They are likely to order 7E7's maybe not as launch customer but they'll be among the early customers, that's the next new Boeing aircraft they are likely to add, with maybe 737-700's.
The A300's were at one time flown to LHR from JFK, I think 8 of them were configured to a three-class config but they no longer do the job of crossing the pond, they'll fly only to Central America and the Carribean and in the US you'll see them only at four airports: JFK, EWR, BOS and MIA. I like the A300, I'd like to fly on one with AA because I like it and because I'm curious to see if they still have the old seats, I think they do. American is the only US carrier, excluding freighters, still operating the Airbus A300.

Ben Soriano
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Ben Soriano
 
AA767400
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RE: AA Getting Rid Of A300?

Sun Nov 30, 2003 5:51 am

There are 34 A300's in AA fleet.

Yes I work for AA, and I fly on the bus all the time, being based in JFK.

AA is getting tired of having to deal with so many mechanical issues.
That is why the MD-11 is gone. And in time the bus will have to go.
I speak to the mechanics all the time, which is a common occurrence
since they have to come and see what's wrong with the bus that day.
"The low fares airline."
 
airliner777
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RE: AA Getting Rid Of A300?

Sun Nov 30, 2003 6:11 am

I wonder if the B767-400ER would be a good replacement for the A300? It is a great airplane, and it is sad that only two airlines (DL & CO) have considered buying them until now.

Fly safe,


[Edited 2003-11-29 22:12:33]

[Edited 2003-11-29 22:14:22]
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA Getting Rid Of A300?

Sun Nov 30, 2003 6:29 am

in the US you'll see them only at four airports: JFK, EWR, BOS and MIA.

In the US, they are also flown to SJU. Effective 15 December they return to MCO (to/from MIA; America's only intra-state widebody service; to/from SJU) and 6 January they return to Hartford (to/from SJU).

AA's A300s provide the right mix of cargo and passenger capabilities that no other plane currently flying can provide. They are not going anywhere.

AA's A300-600 routes as of 6 January 2004:

Boston/BOS:
Miami, San Juan

Hartford/BDL:
San Juan

Miami/MIA:
Boston, Caracas, Guatemala City, Guayquil, Mexico City, Montego Bay, New York City/JFK, Newark, Orlando, Port-Au-Prince, San Jose, San Juan, Santo Domingo

New York City/JFK:
Miami, Montego Bay, Port-Au-Prince, San Juan, Santiago (DR), Santo Domingo

Newark/EWR:
Miami, San Juan

Orlando/MCO:
Miami, San Juan

San Juan/SJU:
Boston, Hartford, Miami, New York City/JFK, Newark, Orjanestad, Orlando, Santo Domingo
a.
 
rjpieces
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RE: AA A300's To Hawaii

Sun Nov 30, 2003 6:39 am

The 767-400ER holds much less cargo than its nearest competitor, the A-330-200. The 7E7 Stretch is being designed as an "A-332 Killer".
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
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N62NA
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RE: AA Getting Rid Of A300?

Sun Nov 30, 2003 6:43 am

OK, the short range 7E7 seems like a likely candidate range wise and passenger capacity wise, but cargo wise? Will it be able to match the A300's cargo capacity?
 
rjpieces
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RE: AA Getting Rid Of A300?

Sun Nov 30, 2003 6:49 am

Well, probably the main advantage of the A-330 over the 767 is its increased cargo capacity. Let's hope Boeing learns from its mistakes and makes an aircraft capable of hauling cargo!
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
AAnalyst
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RE: AA Getting Rid Of A300?

Sun Nov 30, 2003 7:12 am

Granted, the A300 is a maintenance nightmare. I don't think you'll find anyone who works around one to say otherwise. It's interesting to watch them break for one thing, and then while maintenance is repairing problem A, they find problems B & C. This might explain why AA has the majority of the fleet spend the night at JFK, MIA, EWR and BOS. The A300 has more "maintenance availability" than any other aircraft in the fleet.

With that said, AA loves the 300. We can pack it completely full, top and bottom, and so long as we can shut the doors it will take off. The airplane gets pretty beat up flying in/out of the Caribbean, and S. America. I don't think we want our Flagship 777s in/out of the Caribbean getting trashed. And trust me, the A300s that come back from places like SDQ, PAP, STI are pretty messed up. Anyone who has watched checkin in MIA for these destinations knows that there is a rather interesting mix of cargo and clientele that we pack onto the 300.

One of the huge benefits from the cargo space on the 300 is the fees we get in excess baggage. Ask any agent in MIA or JFK how much they collect in fees for oversize/overweight/excess baggage to places like SDQ, and they'll tell you it's a lot. The 300 has the room for this, where the 767 can run out, and force us to leave behind valuable extra cargo.

Sorry to say, but the 300 is here to stay for a while. As they say, that's my $0.02, and they're free.
Knowledge is Power. Power Corrupts. - Study Hard, Be Evil
 
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N62NA
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RE: AA Getting Rid Of A300?

Sun Nov 30, 2003 7:15 am


Sorry to say, but the 300 is here to stay for a while.

Actually, I like the damn thing! Usually fly it MIA-EWR-MIA at least 1x a month.
 
Leskova
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RE: AA Getting Rid Of A300?

Sun Nov 30, 2003 7:20 am

Granted, the A300 is a maintenance nightmare
Strange, I haven't heard comments like that from, for example, Lufthansa - neither directly nor through "the grapevine": anyone around here work for LH that could comment on this?

Actually, I like the damn thing! Usually fly it MIA-EWR-MIA at least 1x a month.
I don't fly them between MIA and EWR, but whenever I'm flying between HAJ and FRA at the time that CeBit is running, I'll usually end up in one as well - and I like'em as well...
Smile - it confuses people!
 
AAnalyst
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RE: AA Getting Rid Of A300?

Sun Nov 30, 2003 7:22 am

Sorry, I didn't mean "sorry" as in it's too bad. It was more of a response to those who seem to think that AA will retire the A300's next year, and replace JFK->SDQ with a mix of 737s and CRJ's  Wink/being sarcastic
Knowledge is Power. Power Corrupts. - Study Hard, Be Evil
 
gearup
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RE: AA Getting Rid Of A300?

Sun Nov 30, 2003 7:46 am

AA767400 made this statement:

AA is getting tired of having to deal with so many mechanical issues.
That is why the MD-11 is gone. And in time the bus will have to go.
I speak to the mechanics all the time, which is a common occurrence
since they have to come and see what's wrong with the bus that day.

Lets have some solid data to back this up. It sounds like your statement has more to do with wild speculation and anti-Airbus bias than anything else. Every
airplane has it's idiosyncrasys and issues. I Do not think the A300 has a reputation for unreliability any more than any other machine. What exactly do you mean?

Gearup
I have no memory of this place.
 
AA777MIA
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RE: AA Getting Rid Of A300?

Sun Nov 30, 2003 7:54 am

I would not say it is a maintenance nightmare. Yeah little things break all the time, but would have to say it is right up there with the DC10 and MD11, and in its latter years the B727. I like the A300, think its an awesome airplane, and boy does she HAUL...
 
tekelberry
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RE: AA Getting Rid Of A300?

Sun Nov 30, 2003 9:20 am

Will it be able to match the A300's cargo capacity?

The 7E7 will be able to hold more cargo than the A300, I believe.
 
dutchjet
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RE: AA Getting Rid Of A300?

Sun Nov 30, 2003 9:30 am

This topic comes up rather often, lots of people I guess think that AA should rid itself of the A300; I guess because its an "older" type that has more or less been succeeded by the A330, that fewer and fewer airlines use them for pax services, and/or because the A300 does not fit into American's primarily Boeing fleet. My opinion is that the A300 will be with AA for many years to come for the following reasons:

1. AA has a good deal on the A300; I believe that the lease rates are very competitive.

2. The A300 is a cash-cow for AA, it is a high capacity aircraft in which AA puts a lot of seats (now with less room thru coach) and flies the aircraft on many routes where loads and yeilds are very good. AA's services out of MIA to the Carib, Central and South America are very profitable ones, and the A300s go out full, with lots of pax, excess baggage and huge cargo loads.

3. The A300 fleet is not very old, the average age of the A300s is about 15 years, mid-life for an airliner, and about the same age as American's 762 fleet.

4. AA does not have the financial resources, at the moment, to purchase/lease a large fleet of wide-body airliners to replace the A300s. If it did, what would AA select? The 777 is simply to much aircraft for most of the routes, buying more 763s to replace the A300s would mean AA would have less seats to offer and would mean a reduction in that valuable cargo capacity, flying smaller aircraft with greater frequency is not necessary on many of the routes, and its unlikely that AA would chose the A330 which would be more expensive to acquire/operate with little benefit - AA does not need the greater range of the A330 for the segments in question. The 767-400 is a possibility, but AA long ago stated that it had little interest in the 764.

5. Yes, the A300s have maintenace issues (and always had), I suspect that part of the reason is that the A300s are heavily used on more difficult routes where conditions are not always ideal. Not only packed flights from MIA to Central American cities, but also short hops from San Juan to other carib islands.

Way down the road, AA is likely to place an order for the various versions of the 7e7 to replace not only the A300, but also the 762 and to begin the fleet renewal of the 763. Before that can happen, AA needs a few very profitable years and needs to get its balance sheet in order.

 
gigneil
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RE: AA Getting Rid Of A300?

Sun Nov 30, 2003 9:35 am

AA Will get rid of the A300. For the simple fact that it is a mechanical
nightmare. It is always having issues, and these issues will be what
seals their fate.


This is all unsubstantiated rumor. Every AA tech from Miami that I've ever met says the fleet may have its weird issues, but that the plane just flies.

I wonder if the B767-400ER would be a good replacement for the A300? It is a great airplane, and it is sad that only two airlines (DL & CO) have considered buying them until now.

Its an uncompetitive airplane doing exactly what it was designed to do - fly at DL and CO. With AA's cargo requirement, they'd be better off with the 763 than the 764.

The 753 is still in production. The obvious chioce would be the 753. Superior economics for sure. Seats 243 in two class configuration. Very close on performance as well.

No. There is no way AA is putting 250 some odd seats on a 753, and even if they did they'd have to leave the pax cabin empty just to uplift all the cargo, and if they did put pax on you'd see 15 tons of fresh fruit left sitting on the ramp.

Has anyone ever been on an AA A300? See any empty seats? If you did - you've seen a miracle.


If AA insists on staying Boeing, which they will, they will either need to pick up 772As en masse and dedicate them to this mission, or they need to wait for the 7E7. Two brand new, very expensive types to carry low yield passengers and cargo. I think not.

Option C -- keep the A300s until they reach a Northwest average age is what they will most likely do. Then if they add 7E7s to the longhaul fleet, they'll replace most of their 767s THEN add 7E7SRs for these missions.
 
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N62NA
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RE: AA Getting Rid Of A300?

Sun Nov 30, 2003 9:49 am


Has anyone ever been on an AA A300? See any empty seats? If you did - you've seen a miracle.


Actually, several times in the past 2 months or so. I usually schedule my trips up to EWR from MIA on AA flt 1700 midweek for just that reason! I get my choice of entire rows in the back of the plane and have nice chats with the F/As!
 
AA767400
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RE: AA Getting Rid Of A300?

Sun Nov 30, 2003 10:45 am

I fly it at least ten times a month. And, 7 out of 10 flights there is always something wrong. I am not anti Airbus, I would love to see a 330 in AA colors.
I have been through some pretty rough flights on her. And yes it is speculation
that they will get rid of the A300. So? Also AA does not maintain their A300's
like they maintain their 777. It does not get much love from AA, let's just put
it that way. It is not because of the destinations. Look at a 763 coming in
from Aruba, it is a New Yorker mess. The only reason that it is kept up, is because it will go on to CDG or ZRH.
"The low fares airline."
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: AA Getting Rid Of A300?

Sun Nov 30, 2003 10:49 am

even if they did they'd have to leave the pax cabin empty just to uplift all the cargo, and if they did put pax on you'd see 15 tons of fresh fruit left sitting on the ramp.


Thats what I get for not thinking it through. I never did think of the cargo angle. Especially in the Carribean. But passenger carrying wise, I still think it's a superior aircraft.

Will it be able to match the A300's cargo capacity?

The 7E7 will be able to hold more cargo than the A300, I believe.


Early numbers indicate that the 7E7 will actually hold more LD-3's than the 772. Only by about two, but more none the less.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
rjpieces
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RE: AA Getting Rid Of A300?

Sun Nov 30, 2003 3:02 pm

Hmmm, this whole thread got me to thinking. Why do some many passengers bring excess baggage to the Carribean? Long stays at the resort...or am I not thinking of something?

Gigneil, are they low yielding? I would think they would be higher yielding since AA is pretty dominant on these routes.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: AA Getting Rid Of A300?

Sun Nov 30, 2003 3:15 pm

Gigneil, are they low yielding? I would think they would be higher yielding since AA is pretty dominant on these routes.

Yeah. They are. That's why AA is removing MRTC from A300s, and why they're configured to carry 254 pax.

Its all VFR traffic.

Thats what I get for not thinking it through. I never did think of the cargo angle. Especially in the Carribean. But passenger carrying wise, I still think it's a superior aircraft.

Well... than the A310, maybe it carries about the same number. But there is just no way you can fit 250 pax with about 30 first class seats in a 753.

N
 
BA
Posts: 10514
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: AA Getting Rid Of A300?

Sun Nov 30, 2003 3:33 pm

AA has two options to replace the A300 when the time comes.

The 7E7 or the A330. The latter is unlikely since AA hasn't had a vast history with Airbus, but anything could happen. Who knows, perhaps Airbus will offer AA one heck of a sweet deal that they can't turn down. Then again.....maybe not. All we can do is speculate.

The fact remains the 757 and 767 cannot replace the A300......unless AA decides to just forget about cargo which is what makes the A300 a goldmine for AA on its Latin and South American routes. Neither the 757 nor the 767 can come close to the A300's cargo capacity which is extremely important to AA. If AA does indeed choose the 757 or 767 to replace the A300, they're basically saying they want out of the extremely profitable cargo business. They would never do this.

Sadly one of the weaknesses and continuous criticisms about the 767 series is its very poor cargo capacity. These criticisms rose sky high when the A330-200 came out, but the aircraft has always been criticized for this relatively large weakness. Cargo is key to most of the major carriers in addition to passenger traffic which makes the 767 somewhat unattractive compared to other widebodies. Nonetheless, the 767 is an excellent aircraft and over the years has sold quite a bit....until the last few years when the A330-200 has been stealing many orders, orders from even 767 operators such as KLM.

The 757 was primarily designed for the higher-density US trans-continental market in passenger traffic. The 757 has been most successful in the US and much less throughout the rest of the world simply because it was primarily designed for the US market and was supported and helped developped by several US carriers. It really wasn't aimed for massive cargo movement which is why it's not a widebody. That's why it's a single-aisle aircraft. That's why it is certainly not a sufficient A300 replacement and can't even be compared with the A300 and 767.

The 777 is too expensive and too big.

So it's either the A330-200 or the short-range version of the 7E7.

In my personal opinion, I see AA flying its A300s for at least another 10 years. From various AA employees, I've heard nothing about great things to say about the A300. To some, it's the favorite in AA's fleet.

The A300 is a good plane and we shouldn't let the recent crash in New York change our view of it. The fact is crashes happen because humans aren't perfect and as a result aircraft aren't perfect because they are built by humans. This applies to any aircraft. It could have been any aircraft that crashed on that day. Overall, the A300-600R has had an excellent safety record. It's a totally new aircraft compared to the older A300B2s and early B4s which had a so so safety record......

The A300 is perfect for AA's high-density Latin and South American routes for two reasons. High cargo capacity which is very important for Latin and South American routes since there is a ton of cargo traffic movement, plus its high passenger capacity of 250 seats. That's quite high for an A300.

I've heard from various sources that the A300 is a goldmine for AA and they aren't even thinking about replacement at the moment.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26252
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RE: AA Getting Rid Of A300?

Sun Nov 30, 2003 3:41 pm

Yeah. They are. That's why AA is removing MRTC from A300s, and why they're configured to carry 254 pax.

Its all VFR traffic.


Actually, in some cases, they are goldmines for AA. You will not find a low fare between Miami and Port-Au-Prince, where the average fare for the less than two hour flight is usually $450-$550 rtn., and that is the slow season. Guayquil is another very high-yielding market for American. In the case of destinations like PAP and GYE, AA sending LRTC to certain destinations, in particular Port-Au-Prince, Guayaquil, Quito, La Paz, Lima, and Santa Cruz, does not mean more seats to sell in a low-yielding market, it means less overbooked passengers and more high-yielding fares.

AA has two options to replace the A300 when the time comes.

The 7E7 or the A330.


They also have a third (albeit, less likely) option: brand-new A300/A310 family aircraft.
a.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: AA Getting Rid Of A300?

Sun Nov 30, 2003 3:43 pm

Actually, in some cases, they are goldmines for AA. You will not find a low fare between Miami and Port-Au-Prince

Heh just because AA is raping people doesn't per se make them a high yield market.

I agree with your analysis on some level, however.

N

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