Ok ok, I know this has been discussed several times. I have a question. In an earlier discussion someone said that if the US started to allow regular service to Cuba that Delta might be interested, along with many other airlines. Well, Delta already has a strong relationship with Air Jamaica, which of course already flies to Cuba. How many people think that if the US allows regular flights to Cuba that Delta would instead have Air Jamaica handle those flights to Cuba? Possibly even have direct service from JFK, and Atlanta.

God bless through Jesus,

Jeff

I, im my humble opinion can easily see Delta 737-800s, 767s at Havana and even other airports in Cuba, with enough flights from Atlanta, Miami, JFK etc. And in the future Cubana/other new Cuban airline(s) to the U.S., before Air Jamaica even gets to have any significant number of US-Cuba flights. As far as the U.S. allowing regular commercial flights while Castro is still in power, I doubt that will happen, even less with a Republican administration in place should Bush get re-elected

I think if and when it opens up, all US carriers will offer flights, AA from MIA, DL from ATL and CO / KMCO), USA - Florida">MCO, NW from DTW, US from CLT and PHL, UA from IAD, CO from EWR, B6 from JFK and FLL, Spirit from FLL, AirTran from ATL and MCO

Delta already runs its own regularly scheduled charter flights JFK - HAV.
They may choose to also codeshare with JM, but I would guess they would keep their own flight flying there, just be able to sell it as a normal flight.

Maybe if Bush did allow flights to Cuba he could send Castro some cigars made by the CIA again, ha ha ha I am just kidding.

I had never heard of those Delta regularly? scheduled? flights to cuba, from JFK? but I guess you learn something new everyday, thanks for sharing Jessman

Freighter flights could also be quite profitable, bringing parts for all those 1950s US cars  

where are they going to get these parts out of to ship to Cuba? Ouf of cars in museums? 

hey

last Febuary I flew a 737-800 Delta Shuttle from treminal 2 at JFK to Havana.
My mom teaches at Vassar Collage and it was her turn to go with the alumni to Cuba. The flight was a charted flight, but they do fly flights for regular people if you have permision. When i was in Cuba my dad and I went to Josie Marti a few times and the planes we saw there were:
IL-96 Aeroflot which took up the whole runway
a bunch of Cubanas including-320, IL-62, and some Foker-27s as well as more soviet aircraft
767-300 Lauda Italy
747-300 Iberia
319 Mexicana
330-200 Thomas Cook
340-300 Lan chile
ATR-42 American Eagle
DC-9 Air Carabies
737-700 NG Copa
5 DC-10s Air 3 Air lib 2 AOM this was around the time when Air Lib went bust
No Air Jamica aircraft
and a 737-200 Bamahsair
apperently Air France and Aeromexico as well as North American planes were soppose to fly in the day that we left but we never saw them they were posted on the Arivals board.

AIRTRAN will do it. That is their speed.

Trailer park airline for a trailer park type like country.

This could be their debut into the real International market.

AlitaliaMD11:
Your mother teaches at Vassar?
I had a friend from high school that went there (1991-1995).

I was in Cuba back in 2001. I hope to see Cubana fly to the U.S.
When I went there, I flew Cubana IL-62. When I was at HAV, I saw Cubana's IL-76, Yak-42D, TU-154, AN-24s, DC-10s as well as AOM DC-10 and Aerocaribbe AN-2.

Delta is fine for flights to ATL and CVG but that's all I'd ever fly Delta for.

I took this photo for you all to enjoy.  


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Photo © Larry Jackson

I think if and when it opens up, all US carriers will offer flights,

It is extremely unlikely that all US carriers will offer flights to Cuba, because it is extremely unlikely that the US and Cuba will suddenly offer Open Skies when US-Cuba flight restrictions are discontinued. American Airlines and Continental Airlines, which currently offer the most extensive number of flights and destinations between the US and Cuba, are most likely going to get first dibs on US-Cuba services. American to Havana from New York City/JFK, Dallas, O'Hare, Miami, Ft. Lauderdale, Tampa, Orlando, and San Juan, and secondary cities (like Camaguey, Holguin, Santiago de Cuba, Cienfuegos, etc.) from Miami. Continental to Havana from Houston, Newark, and Miami, and likely some secondary cities from Newark and Miami.

Did you that Starbucks, Hard Rock Cafe, McDonald and a few other chains have locations already picked out for when Castro goes?

Visit Cuba while you can't.  
It will turn in to a Cancun overnight once Castro goes.  

I think Cuba would be a fascinating place to go too.

God bless through Jesus,

Jeff

Jeffrey1970:
It already is.
For an old car buff, aviation enthusiast, mojito connoisseur, it's paradise.

HAV has a more diverse aircraft traffic than any U.S. airport.
You get IL-62s, IL-96s, IL-76, AN-24s, Yak-42Ds, along with 747s, DC-10s, A320s, A340s and 757s.
I can't get that at SFO or ORD.

I kow Congress keeps talking about lossing up restrictions to go to Cuba, but with an election year comming up I am not sure that is going to happen anytime next year.

God bless through Jesus,

Jeff

Jeffrey1970:
I know it sucks!
I saw Bushman on CNN last night and he reduced himself to the most pathetic form of pandering to a small vocal minority in Florida. This time he wants to legally win Florida.

Congress wants to lift the ban but Bush threatened a veto so they didn't have the balls to vote on it.

As we should be stomping out terrorism, his regime wants to stick it to those who want to have a mojito and cigar on the beach.  

I'd say go to Cuba now!
It's worth the risk. 

My considered opinion is that as soon as Castro passes away, there will be flights galore from the US to Cuba.

It will make a whale of a tourist destination. I've talked to crews who had layovers there in the late 40s and early 50s when Battista was in charge, and they loved it. Business was out of site. Havana will have more American tourists than it will know what to do with -- just as soon as Fidel dies.

Keep in mind Castro is elderly and will not live too much longer.

It will be a run for the money, I think, to see who will have the most flights: American or Delta. Imagine the number of commuter flights between MIA and HAV for, say, $39 or so round trip. You could fill up RJs and Dash 8s and anything else you could possibly think of all day long.

As someone who's been to Cuba a few times... I can tell you it already is like Cancun...well almost. The only difference is that since there are no Americans, it doesn't get a lot of attention in the USA.

Airdude66 - Cuba is not a trailer park country. Yes it does have its share of impoverished peoples, but so do most countries in the world, including most southern tourist destinations...and so do my country and yours for that matter. From a tourist's perspective though, it's a great spot and not expensive in relation to other southern spots. Veradero rocks.

There are lots of Canadian flights to Cuba...Are American citizens allowed to fly on them? Americans can enter Cuba, can't they?

Jeffrey, Jeffrey, Jeffrey ... God blesses Cubans too.

G

PiedmontGirl:
Havana will have more American tourists than it will know what to do with

As I said before, Visit Cuba while you can't.


Canuckpaxguy:
I can tell you it already is like Cancun...
Veradero rocks.


I went to Cuba directly from Cancun. The difference was night and day. Cancun is so damn clean and commercialized. I like the dirt and grit of Havana. The people in Cuba was extremely nice people and I've made friends there (Cubans) that I stay in contact with today.
Can't say the same for Cancun.

Veradero is probably like Cancun. It's a resort set up for tourist. Cubans are NOT allowed in Veradero unless they work there. I avoided Veradero for that very reason.

I agree Varadero rocks!.. Air Canada is actually expanding it's flights to Cuba this winter... Once US carriers gets rights into the various cities there they will flood the island when they see what's available.. It's an incredible country with great people.. just a crummy government.

Out of curiosity, I wonder if Varadero Airport could handle several large US widebodies as well as the Cuban, Canadian and European jets that fly there now.. seems like it might be tight.


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[Edited 2003-12-02 04:50:16]

Is Cancun airport much bigger?


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Anyone know if Americans are allowed in Cuba as tourists?

G

Just what kind of culture does one experience at a resort were the natives aren't allowed?  
This sounds like a form of Aparthied.

Canuckpaxguy:
Anyone know if Americans are allowed in Cuba as tourists?

Yes the Cuban government loves Americans to visit.
I am American and I was there a few years ago.
It's just my government that I am worried about, not Castro.

Our Kennedy era embargo doesn't allow us to go. Castro has no problem with us visiting his country.
Of all countries I've visited, the Cubans in Cuba are the friendliest people I ever met.

Superfly,
I completely agree with your point; and I prefer to get out of the beach areas whenever I can. But there are lots of places where locals aren't allowed on the beach. Bahamas, Barbados, Jamaica....

G

I heard some Americans at the Varadero resort I was staying at. They seemed to be having a good time. The Cuban's I spoke to want Americans to come down and in fact there is nothing legally stopping them from entering the country. It's the American government that prevents Americans from going there not Cuba.. ironic coming from the land of liberty..

What about CUBANA service from HAV to the US?

Canuckpaxguy:
But there are lots of places where locals aren't allowed on the beach. Bahamas, Barbados, Jamaica....

Are you serious?  

That totally suck!
I haven't been to Bahamas, Barbados and Jamaica in years. How come we don' have an embargo against those nations? Ironic.  

When I visit another country, I like to experience the culture to justify visiting.
It puzzles me when Americans go to Europe, Asia and Aulstralia and eat at McDonalds and Hard Rock Cafes.
It's silly, they mine as well stay at home.

Aa757first:
Now that would be awesome!

SFO-HAV non-stop on an IL-62!  

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View Large View Medium Photo © Toni Marimon

I had never heard of those Delta regularly? scheduled? flights to cuba, from JFK? but I guess you learn something new everyday, thanks for sharing Jessman

Technically the DL flights are charters for "Marazul Charters" but you can see them on the DL website when you look for flight information if you know the flight numbers.

http://www.marazulcharters.com/cgi-bin/travel/charterservices/schedule/display.v2.cgi

It is extremely unlikely that all US carriers will offer flights to Cuba, because it is extremely unlikely that the US and Cuba will suddenly offer Open Skies when US-Cuba flight restrictions are discontinued.

Actually the traffic rights to Cuba will probably revert back to what they were prior to the embargo. I'm sure someone can research who all flew there in the olden days. I know Delta did from Miami back in the day.

Superfly - In Cuba you can travel just about anywhere so you'd be able to experience their culture pretty freely... I agree I wish the locals could go to Varadero and honestly it's not traditional Cuba in anyway.. but I took a trip into Havana and stopped along the way and saw and met people who better represented the modern Cuba. I also wish your government would let you go in and decide for yourself if everything they tell you about Cuba is true as well. It amazes me Americans allow this embargo to continue. It would seem to go against what Freedom & democracy stand for. Quite frankly a flood of Americans bringing in business and money would be the best way to convince the average Cuban to push for change. Anyway I hope it changes at both ends and Cubans and Americans can come and go freely to each others countries and all over. Just let me know before hand so I can go back one more time before all the rates go up 500%... LOL

[Edited 2003-12-02 05:14:23]

Superfly,
People around the world ask the same question of Americans. (I'm sorry...I said that out loud! Canadians, I'm sure, are just as bad). I'm with you! When I go to a country it's not to compare Starbuck's. I want to see the culture. I want to have my own adventures and see what life is like.

Now, from the tourist places I've been, I don't know if it's local laws that prevent locals from going on the beaches or near the hotels, or if it is the resort security.

Many hotels and resorts around the world STRONGLY discourage locals from coming anywhere near the resorts without permission. Even in parts of Mexico, the people who try to sell you stuff on the beach, they often have to share a portion of their earnings with the hotel security.

G

Veradero's great, but I agree with Superfly -- it's not Cuba. It's more like Cancun East. Beautiful beaches, though, and the resorts seemed to be very nice, though I only passed through and didn't stay at any of them. Another of his comments with which I could not agree more is the generosity and friendly spirit of the Cuban people. Truly remarkable, especially when directed toward Americans even though our government has been no friend of theirs. I'm not trying to start a political debate here, or get embroiled in one, but after traveling through Cuba my heart goes out to her people. They're shouldering a tough burden.

(To try to get back on topic...) HAV is great for spotting. I saw probably half a dozen planes there I'd never seen before, though that ain't saying much, particularly as I've never gone spotting in the Eastern Bloc. I've also got a nice picture of my CO 733 parked, waiting to take us home, in front of the unfurled Cuban flag. As fascinating as a trip there was for your average sheltered American, I was pretty glad to get home.

To clear up a minor mistake made by a previous poster in this thread, the U.S. government does not, per se, prohibit travel to Cuba -- just the unlicensed expenditure of U.S. dollars there. That's effectively a travel ban, but not quite. For example, an American may freely travel to Cuba as long as his visit is paid for (presumably with another currency) by a citizen of Cuba or a third country. And of course American carriers are permitted to conduct charter flights to Cuba, though under what restrictions I'm not sure.

To clear up a minor mistake made by a previous poster in this thread, the U.S. government does not, per se, prohibit travel to Cuba -- just the unlicensed expenditure of U.S. dollars there

That poster was me.. ok technicalites but effectively they are stopping you from going because most Americans cannot be sponsored to go there. Let's not beat around the bush. Another irony, the US dollar is the main currency for tourism on ths island as well as among most Cubans. So you can't spend money there but they use your currency as theirs.. too much eh?

Carribb:
Just let me know before hand so I can go back one more time before all the rates go up 500%... LOL


....and that's EVERYTHING! ! ! ! ! !! !




Canuckpaxguy:
We had stayed in Cancun a few days before departing for Cuba. It was funny how some peddlers were trying to sell us Cuban cigars for $35.00 .
We just laughed. Little did they know we going to get them for free in Cuba!  

I don't care if I don't ever see Cancun again.
Hotel charged my credit card $345 for a phone call I didn't make, and another hotel charged us 3 nights even thought we cancelled 6 hours before the dealine!
I got my money back but it took an entire month with the dispute. That was money I had planned to use in Cuba.
I still had a good time once we made it to Cuba.

One comment from above: "It is extremely unlikely that all US carriers will offer flights to Cuba, because it is extremely unlikely that the US and Cuba will suddenly offer Open Skies when US-Cuba flight restrictions are discontinued. American Airlines and Continental Airlines, which currently offer the most extensive number of flights and destinations between the US and Cuba, are most likely going to get first dibs on US-Cuba services. American to Havana from New York City/JFK, Dallas, O'Hare, Miami, Ft. Lauderdale, Tampa, Orlando, and San Juan, and secondary cities (like Camaguey, Holguin, Santiago de Cuba, Cienfuegos, etc.) from Miami. Continental to Havana from Houston, Newark, and Miami, and likely some secondary cities from Newark and Miami."

===
Y'all seem to forget that US/Cuba scheduled routes are international routes and are awarded by the U. S. DOT (formerly CAB). I believe that the successor companies to the airlines (Eastern, Pan Am, National) that held Cuban route authority from the USA previously will have first dibs when scheduled air service is restored to Cuba. That would mean American and United, not Continental which never served Cuba with scheduled service, or all the other carriers mentioned that didn't even exist when normal Cuban air service existed. Most of the cities mentioned never had scheduled air service to HAV and to assume that they would be included in an air service agreement is nothing more than wild speculation.

For historical purposes, the MIA-HAV route had more passengers than any other route out of MIA prior to the cessation of air service and will be a gold mine for the carriers getting the route authority.

Don

Db777, I agree. MIA-HAV is the goldmine in all of this. I have no problem seeing flights every hour on the hour from 0600 until 2200. The airline that gets that route will make a bloody fortune off it.

My dream would be to fly CUBANA IL-62M MIA-HAV !!!

I love Cuba (well, I was born there) HEHEHE. I've been back three times and they have been as follows:

1998
MIA-HAV
UAL B767-300ER

HAV-MIA
UAL B767-300ER

2000
MIA-HAV
AAL B757-200

HAV-MIA
AAL B757-200

2002
MIA-HAV
MiamiAir B727-200

HAV-MIA
MiamiAir B727-200

I would love to fly to Varadero from MIA!  

Regards,

Airliner777:
If Cubana did one flight a day to Miami, I am sure it would be with a IL-62.
If they do multiple, it might be a Yak-42D or AN-24.

not that I think I know more than any of you but I'm impressed with some of the posts here, right on the money. As a someone who lived half of my life in Cuba I can tell you it's a unique experience to be raised there. Even with all the communist crap we had to put up with I saw/did so many things there, never would have done anywhere else. Otherwise here I would have been a stay at home nintendo playing kid who never appreciated things and never gotten a tan either and when I grew older I could have been some clueless beavis and butthead type of individual like Airdude66

However, I can personally tell you Americans are liked in Cuba more than anywhere else in the world (and yes this is not an exaggeration) and unrelated, but saying the cubans in south florida are a small minority is like trying to block the sun with 1 finger. Bush does this because he knows he would have lost badly in Florida to Al Gore hadn't it been for the miami cubans who vote mostly Republican. Lets just say we would be having the "inventor of the internet" as president right now..

I swore everything from USA was perfect. Best cars, best planes (still think so), best people etc. I really had to leave before I got my parents in trouble, if for example I said what I really thought. Back then talking bad about the Revolution & the Soviet Union, and saying good things about the US, could cost someone his/her job. Still today, free speech can land you in jail for a long time, if you are a Cuban living there.

Realistically however, I came to know a few norteamericanos when I got here who are far from perfect. Especially folks who arent well educated and are not very cultured. A far cry from the typical European and yes believe it or not some people in Latin America. Even so, Americans are very open minded people who welcome all types of culture and it hurts me when other people envy and say bs about the United States. All in all, America is still is the best place, period

As far as spotting, I remember seeing some old interesting aircraft @ Havana's Jose Marti like, TU154, Il62s, Il18s, Yak40s, An24/26. Aerocaribbean, Cubana, Aeroflot, Iberia, Vasp,TAAG angola all regulars back in the 80s. Also, back then only Jose Marti in Havana got any real jet/international traffic, now you can fly to about 5 or 6 different airports that have been turned into international operations. There were no frequent charter flights by US majors back then, and as a matter of fact you would be put in jail for having US dollars in your possession.. how ironic, now if you dont have American dollars, is almost impossible to get by "resolviendo" daily.

If it was less costly for me I would go to Cuba and have a blast (like 2 of my friends are doing this week), spot, dive, see nature, old friends, go to a place where time has stood still for 40 years.

However due to politics I'm still considered a citizen of Cuba even if I'm an American citizen here) so it's just too expensive to go there now. Airfare/visa/passport, etc will run into the $700 dollar range which is ridiculous really, but one day I'll be back, no matter if it's Delta, AA, even air tran  

M.R.

Superfly - I don't think Cubana would operate Russian equipment into the US. They would most likely use A320's, same as they use for YMX/YYZ (OK, some IL6 got to YUL too, but its mostly A320).

MIAMIx707:

Excellent post!

and when I grew older I could have been some clueless beavis and butthead type of individual like Airdude66

I don't know much about Airdude66, but there are worse over in the Non-Aviation forums and I can totally understand why you don't post over there.

Still today, free speech can land you in jail for a long time, if you are a Cuban living there.

That would be A$$croft and Rumsfeild's dream.

Technically I am an 'evildoer' and an aid to the 'axis of evil' by visiting your country. Cuba is on that list and I defied Bush's orders. I guess I am going to hell with the rest of them.  

it's just too expensive to go there now. Airfare/visa/passport, etc will run into the $700 dollar range

I did it for only $175 roundtrip out of Cancun. I am sure you can get a cheap flight to Cancun, right?

Lets just say we would be having the "inventor of the internet" as president right now..

..and we wouldn't be as hated around the world as we are now and we certainly wouldn't have this stupid 'patriot act'.  


Great to hear your perspective on this issue MIAMIx707.  

I am afraid that once Castro goes and Nike sweatshops move in, all of the magnificent IL-62s, IL-76s, Yak-42Ds and AN-24s will go as well.  
Cuba may become as bland as the rest of tourist spots geared for the unadventurous American.
Even spotting will become dull at HAV.  

Thanks Superfly, your posts are also excellent and fun to read  

The issue of costing so much even going through Cancun, is mostly because to Cuba I'm not an American tourist. I'm still Cuban to them, (however I heard that shortly cubans on the US won't need a cuban visa anymore). So as crazy as it may sound, you as an American with all the restrictions can go there for much cheaper going through a third country

However, to tell you the truth i'm not sure exactly how this really works b/c I haven't really tried to go since. But, I've always heard the trip to Cuba is expensive, even if the place itself isn't. People usually only go to visit relatives they havent seen in years.

---
Note that, while I still like Bush and think he's a good man, I don't think he has the gift of speech like Clinton or Reagan did., and therefore he's not the very influential president he would like to be.

Also, hee wrongly believes everybody else in the world shares his patriotic views and freedom this and fredom that (although ideally that's how it should be) He picked bad strategists, the war in Iraq was a succes but yet our soliders are now sitting ducks, being killed daily. Many muslims there dont like to see a foreign soldier in every corner with a gun, they find it offensive even if Bush thinks that means security and freedom for Iraq..On top of that they are trying to be too democratic in a place that has no laws where life isn't respected. They need to get tougher, but do it smart. But anyways, this is another topic...lol

I gotta agree with you, all the interesting, magnificent airliners are rapidly vanishing from our skies. It won't be long before they disappear from Cuba soon after Castro dies. But don't worry, not all of Cuba will become another bland, strictly touristic place... I can promise you that  

regards,
M.R.

sadly the DC-10 does not opperate to havana any more the only oparter was Air Lib and Cubana leased one from AOM which went bust and the planes where returend to Finnair. And at havana there is no really good spotting eccept for the road that the aircraft take of over on the side that they land there is forest but from the reasterunt in the terminals you can see very well!
I am not sure if Cubana is still leasing the DC-10 from JAT.


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one of the photos was taken in October 2003 and was one taken in July 2003
they have stayed in the same place since i saw them in Febuary!

Superfly,

If your family's homes were seized, family members imprisoned, tortured, and executed, you'd have a slightly different perspective on visiting Cuba.

Sam

>>If your family's homes were seized, family members imprisoned, tortured, and executed, you'd have a slightly different perspective on visiting Cuba.<<

I know people who came from Cuba and who are in that exact situation. Neither they or I find Fidel Castro to be chic.

Fidel Castro may not be chic, but Cuba it's self is!
Flying an IL-62 is!
Cubanas are hot too!  
Don't knock it till you try it amiga.  







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Oh, I'm not knocking Cuba, the Cubans, or Cubana. It's Fidel and his band of thugs and goons I have a problem with. I think he's horrible. I'll be glad when he's dead because Cuba and the Cubans will likely be much better off.

PiedmontGirl:
I'll be glad when he's dead....

I feel the same about W and his band of thugs too.


Check Cuba out for yourself lady.

Goodnight.  

How you can compare W to Castro is beyond rational comprehension! Move there if you want to get away from W's tyranny! Oh that's right, you can vote him out here, can Castro be voted out of power? Try it and you'll disappear!