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10 Aircraft That Changed Aviation

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 4:48 am
by syncmaster
Great article from MSNBC.....

http://www.msnbc.com/news/990865.asp?vts=120120031129

What do you all think, did they change Avation? I sure think they did!

RE: 10 Aircraft That Changed Aviation

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 4:54 am
by ConcordeBoy
Runner up my ass...

I cannot take this listing very seriously. the 747, A300, and 767 all did a heck of a lot more for aviation than the SR71.

RE: 10 Aircraft That Changed Aviation

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:00 am
by SA006
Uuuuummmm where is the 747, Concorde, Wright Flyer, Spirit of St.Louis etc. Honestly there are alot more than 10 aircraft that have done great things for aviation

Regards
SA006

RE: 10 Aircraft That Changed Aviation

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:01 am
by 5NEOO
The Comet and A300 ought to have been recognized.

RE: 10 Aircraft That Changed Aviation

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:03 am
by bongo
Here´s my selection:

1. B-747
2. Concorde
3. Lockheed Constellation
4. Douglas DC 3
5. Antonov An-225 Mriya
6. Antonov An-124
7. Twin Otter (De Havilland Canada)
8. A 340-600
9. A 380
10. Fokker 50

However one amazing aircraft for me it´s the B-777

RE: 10 Aircraft That Changed Aviation

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:04 am
by jeffrey1970
Let's keep in mind this is article is based on people's opinions. I think the writer should have noted that the 737 does fly routes that are 6 hours or longer. To me a flight that is 6 hours or longer is a long haul flight, but that is just my opinion. I thought it was a fascinating article to read.

God bless through Jesus,

Jeff

I might have liked to have seen the 727 on that list, but not sure where I would have placed it.

RE: 10 Aircraft That Changed Aviation

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:04 am
by ssides
I don't see how this could list the 747 as a "runner-up."

But I think this list is moot anyway. Aviation itself is perhaps the most revolutionary technology ever developed (maybe the computer is up there close). Regardless of the craft, the fact that you can fly from the US to the UK is simply revolutionary. Tell that to someone from 100 years ago, and you would be driven to an insane asylum.

RE: 10 Aircraft That Changed Aviation

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:07 am
by unattendedbag
5NEOO,

A300 in the top 10??

Give me some of what you're smoking!


RE: 10 Aircraft That Changed Aviation

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:16 am
by tjwgrr
My list- in no particular order:

1. DC-3/ C-47
2. B-17
3. Dash 80/ 707
4. 747
5. Wright Flyer
6. P-51
7. Concorde
8. Supermarine Spitfire
9. Learjet 23
10. Piper J-3 Cub

RE: 10 Aircraft That Changed Aviation

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:24 am
by Leskova
Unattendedbag, why would the first widebody twin with 2-person-cockpit not be eligable for a place in the top ten? At the time it came out, Boeing was laughing off the idea of a widebody twin as ridiculous - based the opinion that widebodies should have 3 or 4 engines...

... slightly different than what their opinion is today, isn't it?

RE: 10 Aircraft That Changed Aviation

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:25 am
by backfire
All American aircraft, too, you'll notice (bar the token reference to the Me262).

Where's the acknowledgement of the British, French, Russians...?

Complete bollocks. Mentions the 707 (but never mind the real pioneer, the Comet)...mentions the Mustang (but stuff the Spitfire and Hurricane, without which there wouldn't have been a base to launch D-Day)...mentions the Me262 (who was Frank Whittle again?)...mentions the X-15 (er, let's see that one take off by itself, then)...and where's the goddamn Harrier?

RE: 10 Aircraft That Changed Aviation

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:35 am
by TZ
That's funny. Seems like the author, a "Jon Bonné", got the date wrong - it's not April 1st yet!

I like the reference to "Aviation halls of fame mostly honor aviators — not aircraft". I have just about lost count of how many aircraft museums there are that don't honour aircraft.  Big grin

Did the Russians, French or British ever design an important aircraft? I think they did.

Clearly the (presumably American) audience that voted don't respect our Concorde. If that's the case, please could you return the museum exhibits we gave you last month - there are about 60 million people in Britain who do deeply respect it.

Tamsin

RE: 10 Aircraft That Changed Aviation

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:36 am
by dtwclipper
As I don't know much about military aircraft I can only list IMHO what I think where the most important civil aircraft.

Boeing 247: One of the great early all metal aircraft
DC-3/C47: First to fly an economic payload
B-314 Clipper: Opened the Atlantic
B-307 Stratoliner: First Pressurized Cabins
L. Constellation: The beginning of travel for the masses
Comet: Ahead of it's time
B707: Brought the jet age to the world
B747: Truly brought air travel to the masses
B727: Brought Jet travel to the smallest city
Concorde: A masterpiece of 1960's technology and engineering

RE: 10 Aircraft That Changed Aviation

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:38 am
by rb211
Lemme give it a whirl in order of time frame....

1. Wright Flyer
2. DC-3
3. Boeing Stratocruiser/ Super Guppy
4. C-130
5. 707
6. B-52
7. SR-71
8. Concorde
9. 747
10.B-2

RE: 10 Aircraft That Changed Aviation

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:38 am
by Air NZ
I think if the Wright Brothers get a mention, Richard Pearse should really get one. Considering he did fly 6 or 7 months before the Wright Brothers did. He also built his whole plane, including the engine.

RE: 10 Aircraft That Changed Aviation

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:44 am
by garnetpalmetto
My list (also in no particular order)

1) Wright Flyer
2) Bell X-1
3) Boeing B-29 Stratofortress
4) Boeing 707
5) Boeing 747
6) Concorde
7) CRJ
8) Lockheed C-130 Hercules
9) Lockheed F-117 Nighthawk
10) Boeing B-314


RE: 10 Aircraft That Changed Aviation

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 6:15 am
by RIX
"ME-262: First production jet aircraft. First jet fighter." - is it? AFAIK, Gloster Meteor was in service two weeks before Me262...

RE: 10 Aircraft That Changed Aviation

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 6:20 am
by Rattibone
My list in no particular order

1. Wright Flyer
2. Ford Tri Motor
3. DC-3
4. Dehavilland Comet
5. 747
6. Cessna 172
7. Concorde
8. 707/Dash 80
9. Boeing 727/737 First Generation
10. Spitfire

The thing is there are too many to mention. Perhaps a list of 10 Military, 10 Commercial, 10 Private or so...

RE: 10 Aircraft That Changed Aviation

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 6:37 am
by maiznblu_757
The C-5 should be in there somewhere.. Especially Ahead of the AN-124.

RE: 10 Aircraft That Changed Aviation

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 6:41 am
by DeltaMD11
RIX,
As I have the priviledge and honor of working with the worlds only original fully-restored Me.262B-1A, I am well-versed on the Swallow as a whole. The first Me.262A-1A took flight on July 18th, 1942 (coincidentally exactly 45 years before I was born). The first operational unit of the Glostor Meteor took to the skies on March 5, 1943.

www.dvhaa.org If you'd like to see pictures of the bird that I work with and our museum.

Smooth skies,
Bryan Painter

RE: 10 Aircraft That Changed Aviation

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 6:51 am
by 123
This forum should concentrate on civil-commercial airliners if I´m not wrong? It´s inadequate, to compare capacities of military killer machines (that changed aviation, and lives), with jet cruisers offering all comforts available...

RE: 10 Aircraft That Changed Aviation

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 6:56 am
by n844aa
As much as I love Concorde, I don't think I'd put it on my list of top-10 significant aircraft; I just don't believe that it changed the aviation industry except as a precursor to European cooperation, and I believe the A300 is a more significant example of that. Concorde, of course, was a product intented for a future that never occurred; if we lived in that future I'd gladly put it at the top of my list of significant aircraft as a plane that was ahead of its time, but in our era of emphasized economy and deemphasized glamour, I just don't see Concorde as terribly important today except as an engineering achievement (sadly, much like the Apollo program.)

Here's my way of thinking: Which is more significant to (and emblematic of) the state of aviation in 2003 -- a widebody twinjet or an enormously expensive, loud, noisy, beautiful, glamourous SST no longer in service?

Of course I mean no disrespect to those who built, flew and maintained Concorde -- in scores of respects, it remains unparalleled today.

RE: 10 Aircraft That Changed Aviation

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 7:01 am
by OzarkD9S
No one's brought up the Caravelle yet: the first twin engine jetliner, first with rear mounted engines and the first short haul jetliner. The 727, Trident, BAC 1-11, DC-9/MD-80, F. 28, Tu 154/134, Yak 40/42, the CRJ, EMB-145 and others are all a result of SUD Aviation's pioneering effort with the Caravelle. If influence alone is to be considered, the Caravelle should at least make the CIVILIAN top 10.

RE: 10 Aircraft That Changed Aviation

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 7:03 am
by Trident
A very "America" centered survey to say the least.

Military aircraft are important and have changed the world. In aviation terms they have usually been the first to introduce new technologies and in the wider scheme of things, have sometimes changed history - eg. the Boeing B-29.

RE: 10 Aircraft That Changed Aviation

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 7:04 am
by garnetpalmetto
I'm sorry, 123, but I'm sick and tired of the "Oh my god! Military aviation is evil and bad!" attitude around here. Without the "military killer machines" as you put it, many of the innovations in civil aviation would never have come to pass. The Boeing 307 that someone mentioned, for instance, owes much of its development to the B-17. One of the reasons the 707 was as successful as it was was the development of the C-135, the military variant of the 707. Shortfield operations became the hallmark of the C-130 which also showed that an aircraft could operate from paved runways to the snows of Antarctica. The first supersonic flight? Accomplished by a military test pilot on a military mission. So don't be hasty to overlook the achievements of military aviation as you owe more to it than you realize.

RE: 10 Aircraft That Changed Aviation

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 7:08 am
by 123
Garnetpalmetto: I posted MY point of view. Mention yours without beating me up. It´s OK if you have a different point of view. Nobody said you´re right or I´m wrong.

RE: 10 Aircraft That Changed Aviation

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 7:13 am
by petertenthije
I barely know anything about military and general aviation so my list is for commercial aviation only.

Wright Flyer
Fokker F.7
Douglas DC-3
DH Comet
Fokker F27
Boeing B737
Tupolev Tu-154
Boeing B747
Concorde
Airbus A320


RE: 10 Aircraft That Changed Aviation

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 7:29 am
by garnetpalmetto
No intent to beat you up, 123. It's just that during my time on the boards I've detected a distinct prejudice against fans of military aviation and military aviation in general. As I said - a lot is owed to military aviation that we often look over.

RE: 10 Aircraft That Changed Aviation

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 7:32 am
by 123
Garnetopalmetto: OK, understood. I´m just days in the forum so, let´s share points of view! Let´s get back to the basics.. Smile/happy/getting dizzy

RE: 10 Aircraft That Changed Aviation

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 7:36 am
by dtwclipper
Ozarkdc9s,

Good point about the caravelle, I thought about that, but two things left it off my list. I almost combined it with the comet, since it shares the forward fuselage. But, more importantly, it did not reach the number of markets that the 727 series did.

RE: 10 Aircraft That Changed Aviation

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 7:44 am
by RayChuang
While I won't list the ten airplanes that changed aviation, I can name two planes that has be hugely influential to airplane design.

The first is the Douglas DC-1, the precursor to the legendary DC-3 transport. The DC-1 was one of the first modern airliners that incorporated aerodynamic research with the modern monocope structural design completely in metal, something that resulted in an airliner that flew much faster than its competition and have enormous increases in structural strength. It was what was learned from the DC-1 that was brought into the DC-3, the first airliner that could make money without a mail contract subsidy. It was the DC-3 that finally started to threaten the reign of passenger railroads for long-range passenger transport.

The second is the Boeing B-47 Stratojet bomber. Unveiled in 1947, the B-47's extremely aerodynamic design with its thin, sweptback wings and jet engines mounted on pods served as the inspiration for the Boeing 367-80 prototype for the 707 airliner. Indeed, today's jet airliners all use the aerodynamic principles first pioneered on the B-47.

RE: 10 Aircraft That Changed Aviation

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 7:48 am
by DeltaMD11
Garnetpalmetto--"I've detected a distinct prejudice against fans of military aviation and military aviation in general. As I said - a lot is owed to military aviation that we often look over." All I have to say is Amen brother.

As for what I think are truly revolutionary aircraft:
Jet-powered Commercial Aircraft:
1) Boeing 367-80
2) Sud Aviation Caravelle
3) Douglas DC-9
4) Boeing 727
5) Boeing 737
6) Airbus A320
7) Bombardier CRJ
8) Airbus A300
9) DeHavilland Comet
10) Tupolev Tu-134

Jet-powered Military Aircraft:
1) Messerschmitt Me.262
2) Glostor Meteor
3) Lockheed P-80 Shooting Star
4) Grumman A-6 Intruder
5) Vought Cutlass
6) BAe Harrier
7) Grumman F-14 Tomcat
8) McDonnell Douglas F-18 Hornet
9) McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle
10) Vought F-8 Crusader

And there are tons more...but too many to list. Just some that I personally view as revolutionary aircraft.

RE: 10 Aircraft That Changed Aviation

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 7:51 am
by VS340
I really don't understand how the Comet can be overlooked and the 707 not. Sure the 707 was far more successful but Boeing would have never been that successful with it had they not learned from the mistakes made by the Comet. Its unfortunate that the Comet fell victim to such terrible cicumstances, but given the challenges they were facing, challenges never attempted before, they came out as well as could be expected.The 707 may have successfully ushered in the jet age, but it only did so by following in the footsteps of the Pioneers of De Havilland and their Comet.

RE: 10 Aircraft That Changed Aviation

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 7:55 am
by dtwclipper
VS340,

One thing that you are over looking about the Comet, is not it's technological advancement, but it payload and range that missed the mark. Sure it was the first civil jet, but the 707 had the size and range to usher in the jet age. Pan Am had options for three of the type as a stopgap until the right jet came along. If the comet had had the same capabilities as its American counterpart it would have done better.

RE: 10 Aircraft That Changed Aviation

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 8:01 am
by kaitak
Some of the aircraft I agree with - the 707 and the DC3, for example. It's unfortunate that the Comet didn't make it, but that's not history's fault. The 707 sold better and therefore, changed aviation more than the Comet did. That's it; tough, but true.

I'm not a military expert, nor much of an authority on small planes, though I suppose the Cessna 150-170 must rank as being very significant. When I think about significant aircraft, I think "what did this airplane do to change aviation". So my list goes like this:

DC3 - Enough said.
Connie - Pioneer of long haul air travel.
707 - A pioneer of long haul jet travel; not the first, but the most successful until the 747 came along.
747 - A contender for the "greatest ever" award. This is and always will be among the greats; a triumph of vision and a recognition of what aviation should be: for as many people as possible, not just the few.
A300- Pioneer of the design that now accounts for most widebody sales: the twin aisle twin.
737 - Not the world's most exciting aircraft - the Beetle/Toyota Corolla of the skies. Reliable, efficient and like the Corolla, a hell of a different machine from the one it started out as. With 5,000 sales under its belt, you can't say it isn't significant.
767 - The aircraft that made ETOPS flying a reality. Again, not the first, but certainly, the most important and again, with the A330 and 777 now well established, a trailblazer. It's also deserving of mention in that, along with the 757, it brought about the concept of cockpit commonality, later developed to great commercial advantage by Airbus with its 320/330/340.
Concorde - The only one of its type and years ahead of its time. We will see supersonic passenger travel again, but well into the future; this was the leader of the pack.
CRJ/Embraer 145 - Not sure which of these came first, but regional jets have made a major contribution to aviation today and while, like the 737, not terribly exciting aircraft, they do make a major contribution.
A320 - The first fly by wire commercial aircraft - and a major commercial success too.

Many more aircraft are deserving of mention, but these are mine!

RE: 10 Aircraft That Changed Aviation

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 8:07 am
by Leezyjet
My personal top 10, in no particular order :-

1. George Cayley's glider - the first flying machine to have control in pitch/roll/yaw axis
the Wright Brothers took a lot of their idea's from this machine.

2. The Wright Flyer itself - has to be in there as the first powered a/c.

3. Hawker Hurricane - produced in more numbers than the Spitfire, but is often overlooked.

4. Gloster Meteor - First truly jet powered a/c.

5. DC3 - For the begining of bringing air travel to the masses.

6. De-Havilland Comet - First Jet Passenger a/c.

7. BAC Trident - first ever a/c to use autoland.

8. BAC/Sud Aviation Concorde - nuff said.

9. Harrier Jump Jet - 1st succesful Vertical take-off and landing a/c.

10. B747 - for truly bringing air travel to the masses.



 Smile

RE: 10 Aircraft That Changed Aviation

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:10 pm
by Trident
The Gloster Meteor WAS NOT the first "truly jet powered" aircraft. It was predated by the Heinkel He178, the Gloster Whittle E28/39, the Heinkel He280 and (perhaps) the Messerschmitt Me262.

The Trident had nothing to do with BAC, it was originally built be De Havilland whoich became part of the Hawker Siddeley Group.

I always thought that more Spitfires were built than Hurricanes. I would argue that the Hurricane had little impact on aviation. Although the RAF's first monoplane, retractable undercarriage fighter, its construction was extremely conservative being based on Hawker's previous biplane designs such as the Hart and Fury (the project was originally known as the Fury Monoplane). The Hurricane's main claim to fame was that it played a more important role during the Battle of Britain but once that battle was over,the Spitfire began to replace it as the RAF's prncipal front line fighter.

RE: 10 Aircraft That Changed Aviation

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:14 pm
by lehpron
How come no one mentioned the Cessna 172? I would think that would have been the biggest of all deals.

RE: 10 Aircraft That Changed Aviation

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 6:01 pm
by Superfly
This list is worthless.
They left out the 747, TU-144/Concorde, Wright Flyer, Enola Gay and yes the Cessna 175.
Lehpron is right, more pilots today first learned how to fly on a Cessna 172.

I think this list was compiled by a WWI and WWII buff that just admire those times in aviation. Leaving out the DC-3 and 707 would have been too obvious.


Anyone mentioning a A300, 767 or 777 is on crack. They only save a few extra bucks for airlines in fuel. Nothing groundbreaking with those boring twins.

RE: 10 Aircraft That Changed Aviation

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 6:10 pm
by SM777

It does not make sense to club commercial and military aircraft into a combined group and then evaluate them / rank them on their 'contributions' to aviation.

RE: 10 Aircraft That Changed Aviation

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 6:25 pm
by Trident
There are certain aircraft that contributed greatly to the development of aviation, both civil and miltary. There is also a lot of crossover between these two divisions of aviation. A military development will often have major implications on civil aircraft. For example, the Boeing 247 has already been mentioned (rightly too) as a pioneering design that showed the way for the future of airliner comstruction. However, many may not realise that the 247 evolved from a Boeing bomber design (something Boeing became quite good at) called the B-9. But the B-9 is ALWAYS ignored from these "lists".

The all wood De Havilland DH88 Comet Racer (a civil aircraft) paved the way for the all wood Mosquito bomber of World War 2.

Digital electronic fly by wire sytems as first used operationally in the F-16 are now becomming the norm for civil airliners.

RE: 10 Aircraft That Changed Aviation

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 6:39 pm
by qantasboy
Ok.. personal preference~ Pls dont discriminate.

1. CONCORDE (Aerospataile BAC-Concorde)
2. Boeing 747 ~ revolutionised longhaul
3. Comet.. What can i say!
4. A300, first twin widebody
5. A380, wow!
6. B737 very widely used
7. Lockheed Martin Tristar L1011 (my Favourite)
8. SuperConstellation
9. (i shant forget) The Wright Flyer
10. 727, lest we forget

RE: 10 Aircraft That Changed Aviation

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 1:33 am
by sovietjet
I would have to agree that the list is discriminating against anything un-American. And what the hell is a JN-4 doing in there? Anyway here is my list in no particular order(only civil aircraft):

1:Wright Flyer
2:Comet
3:747
4:737
5:An-2
6:Concorde
7:DC-3
8:Cessnas
9:Caravelle
10:Tu-134

RE: 10 Aircraft That Changed Aviation

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 1:48 am
by LastBaron
AirNZ, Backfire - both right. As usual, Americans think only their inventions and contributions matter. How egocentric can one people be? It is still amazing to me that history books here teach nothing of the fact that there were motorized and self-powered flights long before the bicyclemen of Dayton managed to hop off Kitty Hawk, there were successful and long-burning light-bulbs patented in Europe a full decade before Edison's lightbulb, and there were successful, patented telephones invented and produced before Bell's box was here, too.

If we took a quick poll here, I bet we would hear that the following inventions also are all American: the automobile, the gasoline-powered piston engine, the Diesel engine (!), the radio, and of course television...

The sad thing is that most people here would believe this not out of utter ignorance, but rather because these lies have been propagated here since the 1930s and are now accepted as bona fide rather than as the politically motivated historical distortions they are. They are believed with the same fervor that many here still hold fast to the idea that Columbus actually "discovered" America and that the natives living here were "savages" and that their government did not commit the first, organized mass-genocide (planned and executed carefully over decades)...

Note that all the lists posted by Americans in this thread give credit only to Americans. Not because they really know this, but because they have been lied to for decades and spoonfed so much horsecrap that they can no longer distinguish between fact and fantasy... sad, really...

RE: 10 Aircraft That Changed Aviation

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 3:29 am
by BeltwayBandit
LastBaron:

Are Americans egocentric or are they ignorant? You mention both theories.

Maybe we have a well-meaning, adorable national pride that makes us cling to things we like to believe. We're not alone in that. More likely, we Americans are all different types, and we cannot be lumped into a single category, dragged out back and shot for your entertainment and convenience.

Get some perspective. It's a web site and we're talking about favorite airplanes. I realize that people kill each other over sports team affiliations, but let's try to be a little bigger than that.

Your posting betrays a deep and unfounded mass hatred. Sad, really.

[Edited 2003-12-02 19:40:48]

RE: 10 Aircraft That Changed Aviation

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 3:38 am
by GalvanAir777
Heres my list of Planes that changed aviation: (No Particular Order)
1. DC-3
2.Comet
3. 707
4.747
5.Concorde
6. A300
7. DC-10/L1011
8.L1049 Connie
9. Space Shuttle (Not really an airplane persay, but it did change Aviation)
10. B-52

a mix of US. and World Aircraft  Smile

RE: 10 Aircraft That Changed Aviation

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 4:02 am
by planespotterx
There cannot be a "special" aircraft as they are all assigned to do different roles, however my favourite aircraft are as follows.

CIVIL AIRCRAFT

1 747-400
2 A340
3 Concorde
4 BAe 146
5 Comet
6 737
7 A320
8 A330
9 10 Electra
10 707

MILITARY AIRCRAFT

1 Tornado
2 Harrier
3 B-2
4 F-117
5 C-130
6 Apache
7 Gripen
8 Hawk
9 F-16
10 F-15

These are just my opinions, naturally I like all kinds of Aircraft because there all different (like people), but the list is my favourites.

RE: 10 Aircraft That Changed Aviation

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 4:23 am
by GalvanAir777
"Anyone mentioning the 767,A300 or 777 is on crack"

Same can be said to anyone mentioning the A380 a plane that hasnt even entered service yet.  Laugh out loud  Nuts

RE: 10 Aircraft That Changed Aviation

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 5:26 am
by Hamlet69
It's amazing how many people get worked up over things like this. . . so first, let's everyone take a deep breath.

Now, for starters, let's look at the title of the list: "10 Aircraft That Changed Aviation." So for all of you complaining about the military aicraft on the list - learn how to read better. Aviation is just that, aviation. It incorporates all types of flying craft. Interesting that no one mentioned the lack of helicopters on this list. . .

Next, let's also forget about adding anything too new. Maybe newer aircraft (A320, 777, etc.) will change aviation, maybe it won't. It's too early to tell yet (can you tell I'm an historian?  Smile/happy/getting dizzy ).

As for those fans of the Concorde or the Tu-144 - did they really change aviation? They applied an accomplished feat to commercial aviation - and failed to reach even a minority of the flying public. They may be cool to learn about and spot at an airport, but change aviation? Come on. (And I personally love these aircraft - particularly the Valkeryie) The same can be said for an aircraft like the Harrier. It is an awesome aircraft, but in no way did it change aviation as we know it.

Finally, the "starters." I will admit that there is a good and valid argument for aircraft that were the first to do something, even though they eventually failed as projects. For instance, the above mentioned DC-1 as being the precursor to the DC-3, or the Comet pioneering jet travel for the masses before the 707. However, if one were to take this making of such a list seriously, can we include these aircraft? No, because they were not the designs that actually changed their particular segment of aviation, they were merely the precursors to the designs that did.

Now, while I may not agree with some of the aircraft they have on their list, I understand their reasonings behind them (with maybe the exception of the P-51). I am also not going to be so arrogant as to suggest that I could come up with one better.

Regards,

Hamlet69

RE: 10 Aircraft That Changed Aviation

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 5:41 am
by RIX
Bryan,

thanks a lot for link and information! But it doesn't seem to contradict to what I said: Gloster Meteor was in service two weeks before Me262. I mean, not the first aircraft to fly but the first one to enter squadron service (AFAIK, Gloster Meteor - July 12th, 1944; Me262 - July 25th). I still might be wrong but those are different points...

BTW, guys, how about the first ever strategic bomber, a multi-engined one? Doesn't it deserve to be in the list? Especially as it was built in, I believe, 1914?