I am hoping someone can help me to understand the mix of planes currently in the CX fleet, my favorite airline.
Why do CX operate both A330 and B777? It seems to be that these two aircraft have very overlapped capability. In serving regional Asia routes, I don't see much difference using A330-300 or B777-200. I could understand the A330 and A340 will be good match as the shared cost of training etc is much lower. It seems to be me that CX continues down this two-pillars approach, ordering and using the A340-600 as well as B777-300 series.
The only other airlines that did almost the same will be TG but i am not too interested to understand TG's decision.
May be some experienced and knowledgable member can help me to understand the CX choice here. Thanks.
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- Motorhussy
- Posts: 3673
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RE: CX Fleet Choice
Yep good question!
And whilst I can't give you a definitive answer, I have noticed that CX have their Airbus fleet configured more for long and longer range premium flights (trans-continental & trans-oceanic). They are all in three classes with the new First and new Business whereas the Boeing fleet (with, of course the exception of the 744) is being utilised for regional performance with only two classes. There are some A333's being used (in a two class config.) for regional services and they must be for the less busy Asian routes.
It appears to me that CX find the Airbus fleet a stronger business proposition over a longer distance and Boeing a better one for more dense, shorter routes.
Warm regards for Christmas
MH
And whilst I can't give you a definitive answer, I have noticed that CX have their Airbus fleet configured more for long and longer range premium flights (trans-continental & trans-oceanic). They are all in three classes with the new First and new Business whereas the Boeing fleet (with, of course the exception of the 744) is being utilised for regional performance with only two classes. There are some A333's being used (in a two class config.) for regional services and they must be for the less busy Asian routes.
It appears to me that CX find the Airbus fleet a stronger business proposition over a longer distance and Boeing a better one for more dense, shorter routes.
Warm regards for Christmas
MH
come visit the south pacific
RE: CX Fleet Choice
Besides CX and TG also AF, EK, KE, KL (soon) and MH use both aircraft types, A330 and B777.
My guess on CX's fleet and destinations served.
CX A330 are used on medium haul, short haul, low density routes, intra Asian.
CX A340-300's are used on longhaul, low density routes, were the 747 is to big, intercontinental.
CX A340-600's are used on ultra longhaul, high density routes, were the 747 does not have the range, intra continental, and to the US east coast.
CX B777-200's are used on medium haul, longhaul, high density routes, intra Asia and Australasian.
CX B777-300's are used on mediumhaul, high density routes, intra Asian
My guess on CX's fleet and destinations served.
CX A330 are used on medium haul, short haul, low density routes, intra Asian.
CX A340-300's are used on longhaul, low density routes, were the 747 is to big, intercontinental.
CX A340-600's are used on ultra longhaul, high density routes, were the 747 does not have the range, intra continental, and to the US east coast.
CX B777-200's are used on medium haul, longhaul, high density routes, intra Asia and Australasian.
CX B777-300's are used on mediumhaul, high density routes, intra Asian
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- andrewtang
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RE: CX Fleet Choice
CX 772s arent really useful last time as like you said. They are too similar to A330 profile...
The 777-200 were ordered to push Boeing to jumpstart the -300s program. Until a while, CX tried to sell off their 777-200A but couldnt find a buyer so now they are placed on regional and Middle East routes and they are suitable there as they carry slightly more cargo than the A330 on the same routing...
The 772 dont fly to Australia. Same goes to the 773. Also not all Airbus in CX have 3 class config... All A330 are 2 class except (B-HLP,Q,R,S,W) and A340 will be re-configured to 2 class next year...
The 777-200 were ordered to push Boeing to jumpstart the -300s program. Until a while, CX tried to sell off their 777-200A but couldnt find a buyer so now they are placed on regional and Middle East routes and they are suitable there as they carry slightly more cargo than the A330 on the same routing...
The 772 dont fly to Australia. Same goes to the 773. Also not all Airbus in CX have 3 class config... All A330 are 2 class except (B-HLP,Q,R,S,W) and A340 will be re-configured to 2 class next year...
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- Airbus A3XX
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RE: CX Fleet Choice
Manni wrote:
CX A330 are used on medium haul, short haul, low density routes, intra Asian.
CX B777-200's are used on medium haul, longhaul, high density routes, intra Asia and Australasian.
CX B777-300's are used on mediumhaul, high density routes, intra Asian
Just wanted to say that CX is not using their 777s on Australian routes but instead the A330/A340 and 747s are being used. The 777s flies intra-Asia and to the Middle East.
CX A330 are used on medium haul, short haul, low density routes, intra Asian.
CX B777-200's are used on medium haul, longhaul, high density routes, intra Asia and Australasian.
CX B777-300's are used on mediumhaul, high density routes, intra Asian
Just wanted to say that CX is not using their 777s on Australian routes but instead the A330/A340 and 747s are being used. The 777s flies intra-Asia and to the Middle East.
RE: CX Fleet Choice
Soon EVA AIR too will be having B 777-200LRs and -300ERs with A 332s in its fleet.
But there is a large seating gap between those aircraft so its ok but yeah the CX fleet is a bit wierd and has raised many questions in the past.
CX are not very happy with their A 346s at all according to many earlier posts on airliners in previous A 346 topics discussed in the past 2-3 months. They are anyways returning many A 343s to some leasors.
Also remember that the A 333 in a 2 class configuration would have around 50-70 seats less than a 2 class B 772 as is evident with CX A 333s having 311 seats and its B 772s 350-370 seats in a 2 class layout.
But there is a large seating gap between those aircraft so its ok but yeah the CX fleet is a bit wierd and has raised many questions in the past.
CX are not very happy with their A 346s at all according to many earlier posts on airliners in previous A 346 topics discussed in the past 2-3 months. They are anyways returning many A 343s to some leasors.
Also remember that the A 333 in a 2 class configuration would have around 50-70 seats less than a 2 class B 772 as is evident with CX A 333s having 311 seats and its B 772s 350-370 seats in a 2 class layout.
RE: CX Fleet Choice
Also remember that the A 333 in a 2 class configuration would have around 50-70 seats less than a 2 class B 772 as is evident with CX A 333s having 311 seats and its B 772s 350-370 seats in a 2 class layout.
Behramjee..
CX's A330s are configured with 44C/267Y (total 311) or 8F/32C/211Y (total 251). The 772s are configured 45C/291Y (total 336) and 773 is 59C/323Y (total 382).
As for their fleet composition, the minute I see any airline with A330s/A340s B772/B773s (AF, TG soon, KL etc.), I immediately smell a scam. Nothing in the world can convince me of the logic of having such overlapping, competing types in the fleet attracting huge costs in terms of spares, maintenance, training etc.
rgds//Vimanav
rgds//Vimanav
Behramjee..
CX's A330s are configured with 44C/267Y (total 311) or 8F/32C/211Y (total 251). The 772s are configured 45C/291Y (total 336) and 773 is 59C/323Y (total 382).
As for their fleet composition, the minute I see any airline with A330s/A340s B772/B773s (AF, TG soon, KL etc.), I immediately smell a scam. Nothing in the world can convince me of the logic of having such overlapping, competing types in the fleet attracting huge costs in terms of spares, maintenance, training etc.
rgds//Vimanav
rgds//Vimanav
Sarfaroshi kii tamannaa ab hamaare dil mein hai, Dekhnaa hai zor kitnaa baazu-e-qaatil mein hai
RE: CX Fleet Choice
KLM choose the A 332 because it wanted to replace its B 763s ASAP on intercontinental routes with a more efficient modern aircraft and since the B 7E7 wasnt launched at the time, they went ahead with the A 332 which was a smart choice...and their new fleet I feel is the best amongst all the majors worldwide comprising of 744s-772s-332s and 737NGs...good variation and each aircraft is ideally suited to what KLM has in store for them and what KLM expects out of them!!!
As for AF having A 330s/340s and 777s...AIRBUS is hq'd in France so politics played a big part...but they made a good decision by choosing to order many B 773ERs over A 346s!!! However I dont see the need for them having both A 343s and B 772ERs in their fleet.
As for AF having A 330s/340s and 777s...AIRBUS is hq'd in France so politics played a big part...but they made a good decision by choosing to order many B 773ERs over A 346s!!! However I dont see the need for them having both A 343s and B 772ERs in their fleet.
RE: CX Fleet Choice
Thanks for all the response.
I can see the mix of 777ER or LR in the EVA case where extended range is of essence. I can even understand CX ordering of 777-300 to replace previous 747-200 sector. But for the 777-200 vs A330 and the thoughts of having 2 class or 3 class configuration to justify is hardly convincing. I specially find one of the response that ordering 777-200 from CX was a way to kick off 777-300 from Boeing intriguing and hard to beleive. Remember, CX was the launching customer for A330 not 777 I believe. In any cases, given the present aircraft procuring flexibility, the mix of 777 and A330 could be, just a temporary solution as CX will trade in aircraft with other. Still, the fact that airlines always say it is difficult to make money nowaday but if you look at the mix of aircrafts they are buying really makes you feel that they are burning cash. If you take a look at China Air, which in this case, they are very methodical. They replace A300 with A330 and had not choose B777.
Personally, I like to look of A330/340 in CX livery but seating comfort wise, I especially like the 777-300. The seats on that aircraft has deeper profile and taller in seat height which makes me very comfortable.
I can see the mix of 777ER or LR in the EVA case where extended range is of essence. I can even understand CX ordering of 777-300 to replace previous 747-200 sector. But for the 777-200 vs A330 and the thoughts of having 2 class or 3 class configuration to justify is hardly convincing. I specially find one of the response that ordering 777-200 from CX was a way to kick off 777-300 from Boeing intriguing and hard to beleive. Remember, CX was the launching customer for A330 not 777 I believe. In any cases, given the present aircraft procuring flexibility, the mix of 777 and A330 could be, just a temporary solution as CX will trade in aircraft with other. Still, the fact that airlines always say it is difficult to make money nowaday but if you look at the mix of aircrafts they are buying really makes you feel that they are burning cash. If you take a look at China Air, which in this case, they are very methodical. They replace A300 with A330 and had not choose B777.
Personally, I like to look of A330/340 in CX livery but seating comfort wise, I especially like the 777-300. The seats on that aircraft has deeper profile and taller in seat height which makes me very comfortable.
RE: CX Fleet Choice
Vimanav,
The minute manufacturers are convinced that you are a one-manufacturer operator, you lose the huge huge discounts that you get if you would have Airbus and Boeing battling each other to sell to you. With a 6-aircraft requirement for CX, this discount could equal up to US$500 Million. Any slight operational inefficiency is irrelevant at those prices. Besides, the only overlap we have is the 772 and A330, and our 772s are more suited to the Middle East flights because of the performance requirements. If rumours I heard are correct, look for fewer Airbus orders from CX......if a certain manager has his way!
The minute manufacturers are convinced that you are a one-manufacturer operator, you lose the huge huge discounts that you get if you would have Airbus and Boeing battling each other to sell to you. With a 6-aircraft requirement for CX, this discount could equal up to US$500 Million. Any slight operational inefficiency is irrelevant at those prices. Besides, the only overlap we have is the 772 and A330, and our 772s are more suited to the Middle East flights because of the performance requirements. If rumours I heard are correct, look for fewer Airbus orders from CX......if a certain manager has his way!
RE: CX Fleet Choice
Cathay wanted the A330-300 to replace the L1011, and the B777-300 to replace the B747-200 and -300.
However, the 777-300 was very uncertain to be built. As a "deposit", Boeing insisted that CX first commit to the 777 programme or the B777-300 may not get built. So CX ordered 11 B777, the first 4 of which were B777-200.
CX explored getting rid of these, or swapping them with BA for B744, but nothing came of it.
They have been found a niche in CX service (ME flights)
However, the 777-300 was very uncertain to be built. As a "deposit", Boeing insisted that CX first commit to the 777 programme or the B777-300 may not get built. So CX ordered 11 B777, the first 4 of which were B777-200.
CX explored getting rid of these, or swapping them with BA for B744, but nothing came of it.
They have been found a niche in CX service (ME flights)
RE: 717-Doomed?
The A330 and B777 complement each other very well in many airlines fleets.
CX is expected to pick up some old 744s from BA soon (BA will get 777-300ERs as replacement)....CX is also very interested in the 7e7 for routes to China that are expected to open.
CX is expected to pick up some old 744s from BA soon (BA will get 777-300ERs as replacement)....CX is also very interested in the 7e7 for routes to China that are expected to open.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
RE: CX Fleet Choice
Many carriers are successfully interoperating the fleets of 330s and 777s.
In an Asian regional configuration, the 777 is a much higher capacity aircraft, with some extra cargo uplift.
Air France is using their fleets for longhaul, and 332s to boot.
N
In an Asian regional configuration, the 777 is a much higher capacity aircraft, with some extra cargo uplift.
Air France is using their fleets for longhaul, and 332s to boot.
N
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- ConcordeBoy
- Posts: 16852
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RE: CX Fleet Choice
However I dont see the need for them having both A 343s and B 772ERs in their fleet.
They've utilized them for different/fluctuating markets in the past, and will do so to an even higher degree in the near future.
772ERs generally go where there's higher demand for cargo and premium seating. A343s go where there's less demand for either.
Once Project Ulysses is complete, the 777s (and later A380) will be the only ships in AF's fleet to retain L'espace Premier; and as such, will only fly the airline's most premium routes.
They've utilized them for different/fluctuating markets in the past, and will do so to an even higher degree in the near future.
772ERs generally go where there's higher demand for cargo and premium seating. A343s go where there's less demand for either.
Once Project Ulysses is complete, the 777s (and later A380) will be the only ships in AF's fleet to retain L'espace Premier; and as such, will only fly the airline's most premium routes.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
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