Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
B777337
Topic Author
Posts: 83
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2003 9:56 pm

CO To DEL/BOM

Sun Dec 28, 2003 10:43 pm

I had read in this forum that CO was considering nonstop EWR-BOM/DEL. There have been no updates on that. Was it just a rumor or has CO dropped the plan? I would appreciate updates from forum members.

cheers

Himmat
 
iahcsr
Posts: 4777
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 1999 2:59 pm

RE: CO To DEL/BOM

Mon Dec 29, 2003 6:54 am

CO was activly planning the route. However, they and the Indian government could not come to an agreement so the matter is dead for now.
Working Hard, Flying Right Friendly....
 
EK345
Posts: 126
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 5:12 pm

RE: CO To DEL/BOM

Mon Dec 29, 2003 7:47 am

i can always count on my govt to bring good things to a screeching halt.
"and miles to go before I sleep..."
 
behramjee
Posts: 5159
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: CO To DEL/BOM

Mon Dec 29, 2003 8:23 am

Any chance for them to fly B 772ERs EWR-DXB-BOM/DEL 4 times a week??? OR EWR-LGW-BOM/DEL? OR EWR-MAN-BOM/DEL?

By the way from India, can you purchase SEE USA coupons on major USA airlines for 2 stops $ 299, 3 stops $ 399, 4 stops $ 499 like you can from PAK cities? Just curious!!!
 
mog
Posts: 358
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:50 am

RE: CO To DEL/BOM

Mon Dec 29, 2003 11:40 am

Yes, you can purchase VUSA coupons in India. The rates are different, depending on which carrier you use to enter the USA on. However, I would think that buying tickets off the internet is now cheaper for domestic US travel.

 
WindowSeat
Posts: 1201
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2003 3:01 am

RE: CO To DEL/BOM

Mon Dec 29, 2003 1:13 pm


However, I would think that buying tickets off the internet is now cheaper for domestic US travel.

Not exactly. Almost all domestic tickets bought by leisure travellers in the US are non refundable with a change fee ranging from $25 to $100. Also, the very unpredictive nature of "deals" in the domestic US market, some of which are last minute may not exactly conform to the plans of Indian travellers to the US. On the other hand the VisitUSA coupons offer a reasonable price, depending on the number of segments you fly and dates can be changed for no extra fee as long as you fly the same segments and seats on that class are available.

cheers


I'm all in favour of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with keyboards.
 
behramjee
Posts: 5159
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: CO To DEL/BOM

Mon Dec 29, 2003 1:29 pm

Ok can you please tell me how long a SEE USA ticket is valid for as I would want one valid for 3-4 months with 2-3 stops.

And no SEE USA is much cheaper than online bkgs/fares...2 cities $ 299 and then each additional city $ 100 no matter the distance!!! This is COs fare for SEE USA!!!
 
mog
Posts: 358
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:50 am

RE: CO To DEL/BOM

Tue Dec 30, 2003 12:37 pm

Please do a google with VUSA India as the words?
 
cha747
Posts: 807
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 1:07 pm

RE: CO To DEL/BOM

Tue Dec 30, 2003 2:33 pm

In some ways CO's move is surprising and in other ways not. With the amount of Indians in North Jersey, this is a no brainer... they'll mint cash on this route. But for CO to have to work with the Indian Govt...come on...I'd rather have my toenails taken out without anesthesia than work with the Indian Govt (and before anybody asks, yes, I'm an NRI & ABCD & PIO).

So the interesting question here is will CO be able to make the flight nonstop with a 7E7...the introduction of the 7E7 should coincide with when CO will get final approval from the Govt of India AND by then, the fog will have lifted in New Delhi  Big grin

Off the subject...when I was 5 years old our AI flight from BOM-DEL-DUB-LHR-JFK was on the ground in DEL for 13 hours...everybody on the plane, nobody allowed off. Yeesh!
Piedmontgirl was always right
 
mog
Posts: 358
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:50 am

RE: CO To DEL/BOM

Tue Dec 30, 2003 3:07 pm

Cha747, I sincerely think that "Indians in North Jersey" should consider themsleves to be "Americans in North Jersey".

But then, I guess it takes some amount of intelligence to understand the difference between being an ethnic group looking to travel . . . and an immigrant with a foot in the door and suitcase in hand kind of mentality.

Your views on the Indian Government are so childish, that I would have presumed you boarded the BOM-DEL-DUB-LHR-JFK flight last year, except for the simple fact that I could not find a single AI flight to DUB in its history, so could you please also try to get your facts right?
 
gamps
Posts: 456
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2003 4:10 am

RE: CO To DEL/BOM

Tue Dec 30, 2003 3:14 pm

I agree Mog.

CO cancelled/postponed the plan (according to someone from CO who posted here in August I think) because they had logistical problems - planes,crew etc - nothing to do with Indian govt if I remember right.
 
B777337
Topic Author
Posts: 83
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2003 9:56 pm

RE: CO To DEL/BOM

Tue Dec 30, 2003 3:24 pm

Guys It seems Cha747 is confusing DUB for DXB. AI used to operate BOM-DEL-DXB-LHR-JFK in the 1980s.
 
mog
Posts: 358
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:50 am

RE: CO To DEL/BOM

Tue Dec 30, 2003 3:28 pm

Well, it does seem as though anybody with a decent corporate approach does not have much difficulty in doing business in and with India now. The only moans and groans I get are from the NRI/PIO/ABCD brigade, who expect to break every law themselves in the first instance, and then cry when caught.

A good lawyer, a good CPA, adhere to USA/GAAP and India/IRS, and you are on your way. Most businesses, you don't even need to interact with the Indian Government anymore, other than environmental issues, if you follow the simple procedures.

On the CO thing, I am told that the issue was more on lines of why UA stopped their rtw through DEL, than anything else.
 
User avatar
B747-437B
Posts: 8952
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: CO To DEL/BOM

Tue Dec 30, 2003 3:57 pm

On the CO thing, I am told that the issue was more on lines of why UA stopped their rtw through DEL, than anything else.

The CO flights didnt go ahead because of concerns with the 777's ability to maintain engine out terrain clearance with a heavy payload ex-DEL.
 
mog
Posts: 358
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:50 am

RE: CO To DEL/BOM

Tue Dec 30, 2003 4:02 pm

B747-437B, engine out on 777, you would be correct. My input was the security fears that American companies had at that juncture.
 
artsyman
Posts: 4516
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2001 12:35 pm

RE: CO To DEL/BOM

Tue Dec 30, 2003 4:17 pm

I think the issue that Sean brings up ties in range restrictions for the EWR-DEL/BOM flight. The 777 has the legs for the trip if it overflies the Himalayas, but ETOPS rules prevent the 777 from crossing the Himalayas. As Sean points out, if an engine fails, the 777 needs to descend to a much lower altitude to get better engine performance, and would be unable to do this with some rather large mountains in the way. If they were not to overfly the Himalayas, then the 777 would struggle with the distance
 
behramjee
Posts: 5159
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: CO To DEL/BOM

Tue Dec 30, 2003 5:37 pm

So as Sean and Artsyman pointed out the disadvantages of CO flying the B 772ER nonstop to BOM/DEL from EWR...then why not fly via a European or Arabian city with full 5th freedom pax-cargo rights...or stop somewhere in Europe for refuelling-technical reasons like AC does on its way to India and back to USA!!!
 
mog
Posts: 358
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:50 am

RE: CO To DEL/BOM

Tue Dec 30, 2003 9:30 pm

An American flag carrier over Saudi Arabia? It simply would not be safe anymore. Sad but true.
 
AF022
Posts: 1884
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 10:41 pm

RE: CO To DEL/BOM

Tue Dec 30, 2003 11:10 pm

Only BEY and DXB would even consider offering 5th-freedom rights to another carrier - all others are far too proprietary in their slots.
DXB is too far - MAS flight I believe operates at restricted capacity - and BEY is a no-go area - MEA isn't even allowed to fly to the US.
 
klwright69
Posts: 2736
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 4:22 am

RE: CO To DEL/BOM

Wed Dec 31, 2003 1:29 am

Yes, 5th freedom rights aren't just handed over when asked.
 
shamrock104
Posts: 421
Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2000 12:38 am

RE: CO To DEL/BOM

Wed Dec 31, 2003 1:39 am


Why not route via SVO / FRA / FCO / TLV?
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: CO To DEL/BOM

Wed Dec 31, 2003 1:53 am

I hope it doesn't come as too much of a shock but DL and NW overfly significant chunks of the middle east in order to serve BOM from their Euro hubs. Routings can either be over Iran or Saudi Arabia.
 
ultrapig
Posts: 594
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 11:38 pm

RE: CO To DEL/BOM

Wed Dec 31, 2003 2:05 am

Would they serve Slurpees?
 
mog
Posts: 358
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:50 am

RE: CO To DEL/BOM

Wed Dec 31, 2003 2:08 am

DL and NW, into and out of BOM to Paris and Amsterdam respectively, use the same Red Sea route that El Al uses, to the best of my knowledge, and positively not over Iran. That they may cut a few corners over Saudi Arabian airspace would not be strange, considering who really controls it lately.
 
User avatar
B747-437B
Posts: 8952
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: CO To DEL/BOM

Wed Dec 31, 2003 2:10 am

DL and NW, into and out of BOM to Paris and Amsterdam respectively, use the same Red Sea route that El Al uses, to the best of my knowledge, and positively not over Iran.

Absolutely positive that NW does not use the Red Sea route. I'm usually asleep for that portion of the journey, but the moving map track shows a path either south of Iraq over Saudi or north of Iraq through Iran depending on prevailing conditions.
 
cha747
Posts: 807
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 1:07 pm

RE: CO To DEL/BOM

Wed Dec 31, 2003 2:38 am

Oh...the fighting...I'm new to A.net (obviously) but isn't one of the "rules" to not criticize others?? Ok...typo...I meant DXB...as far as being childish...sheesh....how long did you take to look-up the fact that AI doesn't fly to DUB???

As far as the Indian Govt is concerned...my views are based on facts. My family has a suit from the 1960's still pending in the Indian Supreme Court and dealing with the Govt has been horrendous. But this isn't relevant to A.net anymore so I'll stop Mr. Mog.

Thanks.
Piedmontgirl was always right
 
mog
Posts: 358
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:50 am

RE: CO To DEL/BOM

Wed Dec 31, 2003 2:49 am

Cha747, the Courts and the Government are two separate entities. The very fact that you are out there in the Courts means that the other party/parties also have a point of view. That your family has been there for the past 43 years means the other party has a pretty strong point of view. Within the law we bow to it, and if we don't like the laws, then we have the right to change the lawmakers.

Having said that, I do get a wee bit upset about people like you who willingly absorb any amount of lousy treatment most everywhere in the world, but get to things Indian and, bingo, it is all about delays and frustrations which are, obviously, only the Indian Governments fault.

Your rather vapid statement that CO was unable to fly into India because of the Indian Government, possibly based on some anecdote pertaining to your family's suit with the Supreme Court is where it started. This is an international airline site, and trying to get brownie points by being part of urban legends is not going add WOG to the DESI ABCD PIO tag you've already adorned yourself with.
 
cha747
Posts: 807
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 1:07 pm

RE: CO To DEL/BOM

Wed Dec 31, 2003 3:38 am

Mog:

Go back and read my so-called vapid statements...I was only half kidding....if that wasn't immediately given away with the winking smiley. I have similar circumloquacious conversations with my cousins in India on a regular basis and in the end, we all just end-up making besmirching statements. In anycase, as soon as I can, I'd like to add you to my respected users profile because conversations like this one are the ones that keep forums like this alive. As far as facts, none of my statements (except for being in DEL secondary to fog) were factual...just my two cents.

And, Ultrapig, no slurpees on AI flights...just good Indian food! Better leave those for Hooters Air!
Piedmontgirl was always right
 
mog
Posts: 358
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:50 am

RE: CO To DEL/BOM

Wed Dec 31, 2003 12:05 pm

Perception is bigger than fact, and smiley winkey or not, to take an aviation subject like CO to DEL and add the standard urban legend that things in India are terrible and absolutely unworkable especially due to something called "the government" are just not on, this, I am sorry, is not a gathering of cousins.

Specifically with aviation, things are moving in India in the last few years at a pace that took other developed countries a few generations to attain a fraction of. Please do try to appreciate that simple fact.

 
scf158
Posts: 406
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 1:22 am

RE: CO To DEL/BOM

Wed Dec 31, 2003 6:37 pm

CO was thinking about EWR-DEL but then AC launched YYZ-DEL...

 
User avatar
B747-437B
Posts: 8952
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: CO To DEL/BOM

Wed Dec 31, 2003 7:03 pm

Perception is bigger than fact, and smiley winkey or not, to take an aviation subject like CO to DEL and add the standard urban legend that things in India are terrible and absolutely unworkable especially due to something called "the government" are just not on, this, I am sorry, is not a gathering of cousins.

Specifically with aviation, things are moving in India in the last few years at a pace that took other developed countries a few generations to attain a fraction of. Please do try to appreciate that simple fact.


Mog, you are wasting your time arguing with these folks. The "everything from India sucks" attitude is highly prevalent not as much among the second and third-generation ABCD (American Born Confused Desis) as it is among the first generation DCBA (Desi Chutiya Bangaya American) who can't seem to equate the pseudo-socialist India of their childhood with the techo-power in waiting that we have today.

I think its ironic that I have access to far better reasonably-priced communications (broadband internet, 100+ satellite TV channels, cheap longdistance calling, reliable cellular coverage) in Mumbai than I do in Toronto, yet folks in North America always commiserate with me when I am in India because I am "away from civilization".

As for folks' impressions about Air India, well there are plenty of areas to complain about but at least use consistent standards. Alas, that never happens.

PS. Not sure if it was an old sign that I saw at Nariman Point yesterday, but AI is touting 91% on-time flights for the past year excluding force majeure events. Yet we still have complaints that AI planes are always late. Go figure.

[Edited 2003-12-31 11:05:21]
 
A330Fan1
Posts: 835
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2003 2:24 pm

RE: CO To DEL/BOM

Wed Dec 31, 2003 7:05 pm

Will CO be the first American airline to serve India? Or does Delta operate to India via Frankfurt too?

-A330Fan1, happy holidays / new years eve
 
User avatar
B747-437B
Posts: 8952
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: CO To DEL/BOM

Wed Dec 31, 2003 7:07 pm

Will CO be the first American airline to serve India?

No.

Delta serves BOM daily via CDG.
Northwest serves BOM daily via AMS and used to serve DEL too daily via AMS.

In the past United served DEL twice daily via LHR/HKG, Tower Air served BOM via AMS, while Pan Am and TWA have had a long history of serving India too.
 
IndianGuy
Posts: 3124
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2000 3:14 pm

RE: CO To DEL/BOM

Wed Dec 31, 2003 11:41 pm



But for CO to have to work with the Indian Govt...come on...I'd rather have my toenails taken out without anesthesia than work with the Indian Govt (and before anybody asks, yes, I'm an NRI & ABCD & PIO).

Well well well! What do you know? Yet another of the “Bandra Boy goes to Umrikaa” types with the usual “Oh India is so bad its sad” song. Good thing your types left for America when you did! Good riddance!



The CO flights didnt go ahead because of concerns with the 777's ability to maintain engine out terrain clearance with a heavy payload ex-DEL.

The 777 has the legs for the trip if it overflies the Himalayas, but ETOPS rules prevent the 777 from crossing the Himalayas. As Sean points out, if an engine fails, the 777 needs to descend to a much lower altitude to get better engine performance, and would be unable to do this with some rather large mountains in the way. If they were not to overfly the Himalayas, then the 777 would struggle with the distance

Interesting! Doesn’t the AI order for A340 make more sense when seen in this context? The A340’s wouldn’t be restricted flying over the Himalayas and wouldn’t have to fly longer legs to keep within ETOP rules.

Sean: Exactly how is AI planning to take on competitors operating these non-stops? (I swear if you tell me CODESHARE, you are going to get spanked!) Does AI plan any non-stops India-North-America once the 340’s come in? (say BOM-BLR-MAA- DEL-JFK in true AI tradition! Laugh out loud) Seriously Flights like DEL-JFK/ORD should be possible trans-polar? How many pax does AI manage to get on the LHR-USA sector anyways?

Also don’t you think the A340 is a lil bit undersized for these routes? Cant AI operate their existing 747-400’s from DEL-JFK like UA had tried to do once before? I think there should be enough traffic for such a non-stop routing operated with 744 eqpt.

Exactly what are the kind of routes planned for the A340-300? If India-Europe and routes like BLR/AMD-LHR are being planed then surely the A330-200/300 would make more sense since they can do these routes as well?

-Roy
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: CO To DEL/BOM

Thu Jan 01, 2004 8:40 am

Doesn’t the AI order for A340 make more sense when seen in this context?

Nope. AI A340s, should they end up being ordered, won't be operating nonstops to the USA. If they ever would... they too would struggle, despite the relative shortcut, due to the A343's considerably shorter range and lesser payload capability.

CO wouldn't really be faced with any difficulty flying to DEL if a pitstop in Europe was made along the way, as AI would do.


The A340’s wouldn’t be restricted flying over the Himalayas and wouldn’t have to fly longer legs to keep within ETOP rules.

That's assuming quads/tris don't become subject to ETOPS/LROPS restrictions in the relatively near future; which, considering the evidence at hand, is a rather risky assumption to make  Big grin

[Edited 2004-01-01 00:41:30]
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
m404
Posts: 1875
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2003 4:43 pm

RE: CO To DEL/BOM

Thu Jan 01, 2004 8:49 am

Just a thought. Since NW is allied with CO and NW already had AMS/DEL-BOM and DL has CDG/BOM and is also a partner - Why would CO also need this route. Flown as a codeshare they would not rob from each other. Or perhaps that's exactly what the Indian government is not agreeing with.
Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
 
behramjee
Posts: 5159
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: CO To DEL/BOM

Thu Jan 01, 2004 9:37 am

Sean...youre the first one to introduce me to this term "DCBA" (Desi Chutiya Bangaya American)...and its hilarious...will use it on a lot of ppl now...hehehe!!!

By the way are AI and PIA serious on flying via their BOM-DEL and KHI hubs nonstop to USA with A 343s and B 772ER/LRs? Wouldnt it then made more sense for AI to order A 345s instead rather than A 343s? AI could do with the extra range and more pax space avbl.

As for CO abandoning DEL...it had nothing to do with AC starting YYZ-DEL flights...they had problems in starting the flights and didnt complete all the formalities in time. If CO does start the nonstops then I would imagine it starting from Summer 04...and I hope its EWR-BOM and not EWR-DEL!!!

 
CALMSP
Posts: 3649
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

RE: CO To DEL/BOM

Fri Jan 02, 2004 8:31 am

in a recent memo to employees, the reasoning for the abandoning of any India flts was a cost factor and the start up of AC flts. Why battle fares b/t another carrier. The initital rumor was EWR-BOM. Hopefully it will come around again in the future.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: CO To DEL/BOM

Fri Jan 02, 2004 8:41 am

That's assuming quads/tris don't become subject to ETOPS/LROPS restrictions in the relatively near future

Typical ConcordeBoy babble. Even under the propsed ETOPS rules for tris and quads, which I read thoroughly, the A340 would still be allowed to operate trans-Himalayan since it wouldn't need to descend to a dangerously low altitude after an engine-out.

If they ever would... they too would struggle, despite the relative shortcut, due to the A343's considerably shorter range and lesser payload capability.

7500 vs. what 7650, 7700 at best with the GE90-94B or Trent 895 under optimum conditions? That's not considerably anything.

N
 
A340Spotter
Posts: 1743
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2003 9:52 am

RE: CO To DEL/BOM

Fri Jan 02, 2004 9:07 am

The Himalayas ETOPS weren't the reason CO didn't start the route, it was mainly economical. There were some other aspects like overflight permits etc. that didn't add up at the time.
Thought that the flight was a dead subject, but apparently it's being talked about again and would likely be nonstop from EWR.

A
"Irregardless, it's a Cat III airplane, we don't need an alternate!"
 
mog
Posts: 358
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:50 am

RE: CO To DEL/BOM

Fri Jan 02, 2004 11:48 am

Is it really a good business idea for an American flag airline to fly USA-India nonstop? I mean, what is the business logic here? Take a new aircraft in very good shpe, have wider seats with better seat pitch, carry two full sets of crew, suffer take-off weight restrictions, divert to alternate airports for the slightese delay, have the tension of landing with fumes in the tank . . .

When the revenue traffic is eventually going to be the bottom end of the barrel bargain hunter eBooker/Orbitz specialist, then might as well corral the whole lot together at an airport like AMS or CDG or even LGA and then put them on board an old 747/767, place desi cabin crew and funny flag cockpit crew with Hindu-veg extra, and off you go.
 
cha747
Posts: 807
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 1:07 pm

RE: CO To DEL/BOM

Fri Jan 02, 2004 4:23 pm

"then might as well corral the whole lot together at an airport like AMS or CDG or even LGA"

LaGuardia????
Piedmontgirl was always right
 
cha747
Posts: 807
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 1:07 pm

RE: CO To DEL/BOM

Fri Jan 02, 2004 4:36 pm

Before you fire off the next one, I know you meant LGW...
Piedmontgirl was always right
 
mog
Posts: 358
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:50 am

RE: CO To DEL/BOM

Fri Jan 02, 2004 4:46 pm

Actually I would have meant LHR for London, now that ZRH is off the horizon, but also implied "or even LGA" from a slightly sarcastic point-of-view, which is from the Idlewild days.

Thanks for spotting it, though.

Study hard, and here is a simple thought, if you don't mind, from one who has told the same thing to children from both countries:- next time you travel to India or USA, please come solo, with an open mind for fresh encounters, having bought one of those Indian Airlines/VUSA travel anywhere kind of tickets . . .

 
cha747
Posts: 807
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 1:07 pm

RE: CO To DEL/BOM

Fri Jan 02, 2004 5:03 pm

Actually, I find the best service is on Indian carriers. I flew Damania in 1996 from Mumbai to Madras and experienced first class service in coach (fine china, real glasses, and fancy silverware all atop a cloth table mat). Flight crew were courteous and efficient. It's too bad when I returned two years later, they were nowhere to be seen.

In 1998 I flew IC from BOM to AMD. On no other carrier for a 60 minute flight have I gotten the obligatory candy, beverage service, HOT meal (that was delicious), and garam chai. No American carrier could dream of such a feat now. This is, of course, amidst some whacky experiences that I've had on both Indian Airlines and Air India but we can discuss those with Mr. Mendis perhaps the next time I'm in India (or the next time you guys are in PHL) over a beer or beverage of your choice.
Piedmontgirl was always right
 
cha747
Posts: 807
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 1:07 pm

RE: CO To DEL/BOM

Fri Jan 02, 2004 5:20 pm

But back to the question at hand...EWR nonstop to DEL/BOM. Here's another angle. I know for a fact that many Seniors travelling this route request wheelchair assistance because of the tensions of having to change planes at a European airport. I know because many of my family members who are senior citizens are guilty of this practice.

Once an airline cust service rep told me that scores of people do this and tried to convince me that my 65 year old aunt (who HAS a medical condition that necissitates wheelchair assistance) does not need assistance and that agents in London will get her to her flight. She made it out to be a scam that senior citizens flying this route had figured out so that they can bypass the hassle of changing planes and cut to the front of customs lines at the destination airport.

So how common is this phenomenon really? If there is a direct flight(JFK/EWR/ORD-DEL/BOM), then will airlines be able to cut the costs of ground personnel who personally "ferry" these types of passengers from one terminal (or gate) to the other?

[Edited 2004-01-02 09:21:36]
Piedmontgirl was always right
 
User avatar
B747-437B
Posts: 8952
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: CO To DEL/BOM

Fri Jan 02, 2004 6:10 pm

So how common is this phenomenon really?

I flew LHR-BOM on Air India last month and over 10% of the aircraft had requested wheelchair assistance (42 out of 409). I'd say that each AI 744 averages maybe 30-35 wheelchairs per 423 passengers.

And at the risk of sounding stereotypical, yes, this is a patented scam by the Gujju aunties who travel with kutumb in tow. One wheelchair for grandma, but 15 other members of the Patel clan get to bypass the line to accompany her. However, when grandma nears the duty free store she displays amazing agility to leap out of the chair and rush to grab the latest bargain.

If there is a direct flight... then will airlines be able to cut the costs of ground personnel

Direct flights (same aircraft service) already exist between the US and India and have existed for 40+ years. Wheelchair pax do not have to disembark at transit halts.
 
cha747
Posts: 807
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 1:07 pm

RE: CO To DEL/BOM

Fri Jan 02, 2004 6:36 pm

Yes B747-437B, that was pretty sterotypical but so true. I've seen these people jump-up when they see their relatives past customs at BOM. What to do...

As far as direct service...besides AI, which airlines? I flew DL from JFK-CDG-BOM and there was an a/c change at CDG (and we also had to go through security again). Even when I flew Pan Am in 1991 and 1989, there was a change of a/c at FRA. Once on AI we had to disembark at LHR...but come to think of it, I think they wanted to service the a/c because this was after the 13hrs on the ground at DEL. Does flying NW necessitate a/c change in AMS? As far as I can recall, all of the European carriers require change of a/c between North America and the subcontinent.
Piedmontgirl was always right
 
jaysit
Posts: 10185
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: CO To DEL/BOM

Sat Jan 03, 2004 2:49 am

"And at the risk of sounding stereotypical, yes, this is a patented scam by the Gujju aunties who travel with kutumb in tow."

LOL. But sometimes those Gujju aunties will magically open their tiffins on board and share their dhokhlas with their co-passengers. So, their presence is often appreciated.

"Even when I flew Pan Am in 1991 and 1989, there was a change of a/c at FRA."

The PanAm flights from both Bom and Del were same plane services that continued to JFK. I believe that the Northwest has a same plane service from DTW or MSP. In any case, the 2-3 hour transit stops in Europe are always a welcome respite (except when irrational regulations based on the assumption that every Indian national/Person of Indian origin wants to immigrate to Europe (???) keep you sequestered on board). In any case, I dont know why everyone is so obsessed with US-India nonstops.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
BillElliott9
Posts: 237
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2003 8:10 am

RE: CO To DEL/BOM

Sat Jan 03, 2004 3:01 am

Does anyone what kind of loads NW is carrying on the BOM flights?
You can fight without ever winning but never really win without a fight.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos