No ID Required To Fly Southwest?

RiverVisualNYC · Wed Jan 07, 2004 7:10 am

On last night's Airline program, one of the situations shown was a woman who complained that a passenger had been allowed to board without presenting ID. The Southwest Airlines rep explained that this was allowed because the person in question had passed a secondary security screening. I was under the impression that since 9/11 it was a requirement to present government-issued photo ID to be allowed on a commercial airline flight in the United States, but apparently this is not the case, at least not at Southwest. Does anyone know how this can be legal, and what other airlines flying in the US don't require passengers to present proof of identity? It seems silly to me that we require ID to buy alcohol and cigarettes, but you can apparently fly all over America without it.

EA CO AS · Wed Jan 07, 2004 7:13 am

While customers are required to present identification, there are times when people will not have a valid government-issued photo ID. Such customers are subject to secondary screenings involving law enforcement officials. They will ultimately determine whether or not the person poses a security threat.

At that point, it is at the discretion of the airline personnel whether or not the customer may board the aircraft.

Edited to add: this applies to domestic travel only; international travel without an official government issued photo ID (or government intervention, such as a consulate providing temporary paperwork) is not permitted.

[Edited 2004-01-06 23:17:26]

NWAFA · Wed Jan 07, 2004 7:14 am

It is my understanding that ALL PAX MUST have a valid ID to travel.

STT757 · Wed Jan 07, 2004 7:20 am

Not everyone has an Id, not everyone drives.

A large proportion of the population (especially in Cities like NY) never drive, and never have the need to posses an i.d.

RiverVisualNYC · Wed Jan 07, 2004 7:21 am

From the WN Website:
"Southwest Airlines' Customers will need valid state or federal government-issued picture identification to travel (passport, driver's license, state-issued identification card, or military identification are acceptable)."
SO...Either the employees on last night's Airline episode violated their own policy on national television, the policy was only put into place recently (since the taping), the policy is subject to discretionary exemption, or no one understood what exactly was going on....None of these inspire confidence...

aa757first · Wed Jan 07, 2004 7:23 am

I guess birth certificates count? I know if you don't drive, you can obtain an ID card. It is just an ID card, not a drivers license.

AAndrew

iflyatldl · Wed Jan 07, 2004 7:24 am

In therory, that is true, however there are circumstances where the rule tends to be if not bent, over looked. And it's not just WN. I've seen it at DL and also UA. But as was pointed out earlier, both on last night's show in addition to the posts here, they have to submit to extra screening in the presence of the carrier in question's personel. And it is noted on the Boarding Pass: No ID and is signed off by a TSA agent.

7574EVER · Wed Jan 07, 2004 7:26 am

Someone please explain to me what an ID has to do with safety! EA CO AS stated that after the secondary screening involving law enforcement officials. The officials will ultimately determine whether or not the person poses a security threat. So someone please tell me how they can determine if someone is a security threat from an ID. Now, I'm almost 19 and never have, nor will I ever poses or consider getting a fake ID. However, I know plenty of people who walk into a bar, slap down their fake ID and are served. So what would prevent this person from booking a ticket under the false name on their ID and walking onto a plane. Does anyone else feel that this is just another thing done by the TSA to make things look safe. It certainly didn't make the woman last night feel any safer. Of course, I do realize her fears were a litter over the top.

aa757first · Wed Jan 07, 2004 7:27 am

RiverVisualNYC:

Maybe they tell people that they need them so they bring them, and after that anyone who doesn't have one at the airport uses the secondary-search. Or maybe special arrangements are made over the phone. Well, as I said, just guesses. Any WN employees here?

AAndrew

RiverVisualNYC · Wed Jan 07, 2004 7:29 am

Strange that they are more concerned with the secondary screening than the identity. The 9/11 hijackers would have passed such a screening, as they were not in possession of any weapon or material that was illegal to bring onboard at that time. As we all know, they still managed to do some damage. There are probably still some terrorists and other nut cases in America who would like to do that sort of thing again, insisting on photo IDs to fly might be a way to catch them.

RiverVisualNYC · Wed Jan 07, 2004 7:33 am

As an aside, it's obvious from the tone of some of the posts that some of you think requiring the photo ID to fly would be somewhat onerous. I live in NYC and there are people here upset that there aren't 100% photo ID checks to ride Amtrak at Penn Station. Once your hometown has experienced terror on a huge scale, you won't find security enforcement so inconvenient.

7574EVER · Wed Jan 07, 2004 7:39 am

Please don't misconstrue what I'm saying. It's not that I find it inconvenient I just question the legitimacy of it all. Believe me, if something that will truly add the safety than I'll gladly deal with a little inconvenience and believe me, my heart goes out to all of you in NYC who had to see and deal with the tragedy up close and first hand.

goingboeing · Wed Jan 07, 2004 7:42 am

Ready...FIRE....Aim. That pretty much sums up "panicriverNYC" and this thread. He's got a real bug up his ass about Southwest "not checking" ID's, but doesn't seem to worry that this potential threat to New York City could have easily paid ten bucks and had a FAKE id with his REAL picture on it and not been subjected to a secondary search at the gate and then climbed aboard the plane to wreak havoc on the masses. He also seems to overlook that the guy GOT PAST LAX SECURITY without a photo ID. I would submit to him that the 9/11 hijackers most likely had a valid photo ID when they boarded. They might even have been government issued.

iflyatldl · Wed Jan 07, 2004 7:42 am

I totally agree with the concept of screening. And technically it is Illegal (at least in GA) not to have any ID of any kind. Unfortunately, there are exceptions to every rule. Sad, but true!

Flyer732 · Wed Jan 07, 2004 7:43 am

TSA does not require that you have a photo ID. If you do not have one, you cannot be denied boarding because of this. But you will be made a selectee and must be screend accordingly.

Guest · Wed Jan 07, 2004 7:44 am

An ID is not required by any law and the gov't has yet to pass one. Even though airlines will require you to have one and even their written policy will state that. At HP our written policy said you had to have a valid ID, however we would allow a person to travel without an ID after they went through a secondary screening. Policys are more like guidelines and some if within the law can be bent to help a passenger.

Just because you dont drive is no excuse not to have a photo ID, thats why almost everystate has photo ID's you can aquire instead of a drivers license. Everyone regardless if you drive or not needs a photo ID. There is no excuse for any able minded adult not to have one.

Bicoastal · Wed Jan 07, 2004 7:47 am

Ahh, c'mon, Herb...I mean GoingAirbus....can't we all just have a little fun here? You're going to lose your Greeter job at Walmart, if you don't lighten up a bit.

unattendedbag · Wed Jan 07, 2004 7:50 am

There are many instances every day where people on vacation have their wallet (ID cards) stolen and are out of the state and try to get home. As long as TSA has checked the person (completely) and their checked and carry-on luggage has been hand searched, I feel completely at ease sitting next to that person on the aircraft.

redngold · Wed Jan 07, 2004 7:53 am

Right now most airlines aren't requiring a photo ID to board... Perhaps there was some confusion at the gate. Did the woman who complained have her ID out at the time? I just flew Northwest, and flew Delta a few months ago, and they actually told us to put our IDs away because it 1) wasn't required and 2) was holding up the boarding process.

redngold

unattendedbag · Wed Jan 07, 2004 8:01 am

Since you show your ID at the screening point, TSA finally realized that it was redundant to show the same ID at the boarding gate. Maybe the passenger said something to the agent that she overheard or maybe the show was filmed while the gate ID check was still in place.

iflyatldl · Wed Jan 07, 2004 8:07 am

AWA22:
Not trying to start a war here, but GA as well as two other states that I KNOW, of you do-maybe not state, but something. And I know this through a Law Enforcement Official who is a friend. It's just not strictly enforced, but in GA at least, it's the law. That being said, yes Those Policies are more like Guide Lines to be followed as a rule and yes, there's an exception to every rule. And yes, I agree that even though there are a lot of people who don't drive, they should at least have a state issued ID. Smile

And most people DO at least have something in the form of an ID.......and then there are those who live under a rock Big grin

...

RiverVisualNYC · Wed Jan 07, 2004 8:08 am

I'm willing to bet that this topic is going to turn up in the media pretty soon. The public is under the impression that "everything possible" is being done to make air travel safe, and I think most people would assume this includes checking IDs. Like with alot of other things, it will take another hijacking (by an unidentified hijacker or perhaps an unknown person traveling on someone else's ticket who got waved through because he passed a screening) or an investigative journalist to compel the government to act. They're letting people on domestic flights in a way they'd never allow on international flights, and yet when it crashes into a downtown Dallas hirise no one's going to care if it was a domestic or international flight...

RiverVisualNYC · Wed Jan 07, 2004 8:18 am

When is a rule not a rule? When it comes to government doubletalk. If you read below, cut and pasted from tsa.gov, it says an officially-issued ID MUST be presented (notice you can get away without photo ID for domestic flights), but then it says if you don't present it you MAY be denied boarding. If it was truly required, it should say you WILL be denied boarding. Sounds like they left it intentionally vague enough to be selectively enforced, sounds like a big loophole to me, and it ought to be filled.

Proper Identification

If you have a paper ticket for a domestic flight, passengers age 18 and over must present one form of photo identification issued by a local state or federal government agency (e.g.: passport/drivers license/military ID), or two forms of non-photo identification, one of which must have been issued by a state or federal agency (e.g.: U.S. social security card). For an international flight, you will need to present a valid passport, visa, or any other required documentation. Passengers without proper ID may be denied boarding.

For e-tickets, you will need to show your photo identification and e-ticket receipt to receive your boarding pass.

There are four ways to obtain a boarding pass:

Go to your airline's ticket counter at the airport
Use curbside check-in
Use your airline's self-service ticket kiosk in the airport lobby
Print the boarding pass from your airline's website

Note: Persons with parental, official, medical business or similar reasons may be able to access the checkpoint, but should check with their airline for required documentation.

iflyatldl · Wed Jan 07, 2004 8:19 am

There's always going to be a way to circumvent the system if a person/terrorist wants to badly enough-forged ID's, passports etc. With the advent of new technology on the horizon, we can only hope and pray it reduces the chances Drastically. Smile

SWA TPA · Wed Jan 07, 2004 8:28 am

I am a WN CSA and can tell you for a fact you do not have to have an ID to travel. I run into people all the time that have had their wallets stolen or are elderly and just plain dont have one. Heck, there is even one state, I THINK its Minnesota, that does not even HAVE a picture of the person on their drivers licsense (go figure).
As stated earlier in an above thread, we simply make them selectees.

Luv,

SWA TPA

gigneil · Wed Jan 07, 2004 8:34 am

Travelling around Christmas I saw several people taking the secondary screening due to lack of ID.

N

goingboeing · Wed Jan 07, 2004 8:39 am

One more time - the "scrutiny" of my "government issued photo ID", in my case, a drivers license, consisted of glancing at the picture, then back at me. I could have easily created a bogus drivers license, and I'd be willing to bet that I could MISSPELL the state, and I'd get past security. For those who have short memories - we had to start showing ID's since the FIRST gulf war, and it didn't...I'll repeat that...it DID NOT do anything to stop the 9/11 attacks.

iflyatldl · Wed Jan 07, 2004 8:47 am

No, you don't have to have ID to travel. I just wouldn't want to do it. Big grin

nwa man · Wed Jan 07, 2004 8:49 am

MN's got pictures on their IDs and DLs.... must be somewhere else.

Back on topic- anyone who thinks ID screening makes you any safer when you travel just needs to visit a bar on any one of our nation's college campuses on a weekend, to see just how easy it is to obtain a fake ID... maybe even a realistic one, like those offered at http://www.21overnight.com. For just a small fee, you can say you're whoever you want, and it's almost guaranteed that nobody's going to call you on it.

N-Dub

ScottB · Wed Jan 07, 2004 10:03 am

RiverVisual sure likes to get worked up over ANY little thing concerning Southwest. You'd think he had some sort of hidden agenda.

It is important to remember that the 9/11 hijackers all likely had what would be considered VALID photo identification in the context of security screenings. As foreign nationals (many from Saudi Arabia), they all would have had to possess valid passports in order to enter the country. The tickets were NOT booked under false names -- they didn't need to! We know who they were because of the records of the bookings!

And, as others have said, it's very easy to get fake ID's that are good enough to get by the non-TSA staff who actually check the ID's. Your average doorman at any bar is probably better at spotting fakes.

RVNYC: "It seems silly to me that we require ID to buy alcohol and cigarettes..."

In case you forgot, ID is not required to verify your identity in those situations, it is required to verify your AGE.

Most potential terrorists aren't on the government's watchlist of names. Requiring photo ID has no chance of stopping this group.

unattendedbag · Wed Jan 07, 2004 10:13 am

Having an ID has nothing to do with getting an illegal item through screening.

People who do not have ID's are screened thoroughly.

Who cares if they don't have an ID?

I care about what is in their pockets and in their baggage!

usflyer msp · Wed Jan 07, 2004 12:19 pm

On a side note, Tennessee is the state that does not require a photo on your DL, it has caused problems for some of my relatives in the past.

NWAFA · Wed Jan 07, 2004 12:22 pm

SWA TPA

That confirms again that SWA is not playing like the "real majors".

SWA needs to be reported to the govt if they are NOT requiring IDS from passengers as this is the MANDATED DIRECTIVE. Its NOT an "option" its a REQUIREMENT!

Shameful on SWA again for not following the rules! But then again, it has been stated that SWA is paying people off over and over to do things "their way".

PiedmontGirl · Wed Jan 07, 2004 12:23 pm

If people had to have a government issued photo ID in order to fly on a plane, what on earth would someone who had been robbed do? Would he spend the rest of his life in the airport trying to get his ID problem solved?

Of course people can ride without ID. They just require extra screening.

NWAFA · Wed Jan 07, 2004 12:25 pm

May I suggest you go to the govt website and read the directive. If they do not have a "valid ID they may not be given passage on a United States Carrier"

goingboeing · Wed Jan 07, 2004 12:29 pm

Might want to report Northwest while your at it...From the NWA website:

Passengers will be asked to present government-issued identification prior to entering the security checkpoint.

Try as I might, I can't see the word "photo" on that anywhere. The narrator on the program did not say he didn't have an ID...only that he didn't have a "photo ID".

STT757 · Wed Jan 07, 2004 12:29 pm

" I live in NYC and there are people here upset that there aren't 100% photo ID checks to ride Amtrak at Penn Station"

I think Amtrak only does that for the Acela and long distance/ reserved trains, they certainly do not do it on the Clockers. It would take too long to check the id every day of the 1,200 NJ commuters who pack onto each Clocker for the trip to Princeton or Trenton.

NWAFA · Wed Jan 07, 2004 12:32 pm

Any educated person would know that a "government ID" has a photo on it!

goingboeing · Wed Jan 07, 2004 12:36 pm

NWAFA - myh social security card doesn't have a photo on it...and apparently that can get me on a Delta flight...from the Delta website:

What documents do I need for check-in?

If you have a paper ticket for a domestic flight, passengers age 18 and over must present one form of photo identification issued by a local state or federal government agency (e.g.: passport/drivers license/military ID), or two forms of non-photo identification, one of which must have been issued by a state or federal agency (e.g.: U.S. social security card). For an international flight, you will need to present a valid passport, visa, or any other required documentation. Passengers without proper ID may be denied boarding.

AIR757200 · Wed Jan 07, 2004 12:42 pm

As a former AA agent, we have a Sabre star that we can pull up and it is like a matrix... on the left we match what the customer doesn't have (i.e. ID) and the top shows what to do.. (check-in, selectee, deny, etc..) and if you do not have an ID- just like any other U.S. carrier, you will be subject to more screening.

STT757 · Wed Jan 07, 2004 12:44 pm

Interesting tid-bit..

My New Jersey Drivers license does not have a photo, once you have a drivers license in NJ they allow you to renew it through the mail thus avoiding the hell which is a NJ DMV.

It's a great convenience but was causing problems when I went to bars, especially when I took trips to California (they couldn't believe that NJ drivers licenses don't have photos).

I ended up getting a County Id, went down to the County Clerks Office with my birth certificate, voter registration card etc and got a County ID.

Problem is people outside of New Jersey don't seem to know what it is, even though it's stamped with the "Official" seal of the County of Monmouth.

New Jersey since 9-11 has stopped issuing photoless drivers licenses, in fact every licenses now is digital and one of the most advanced in the Country. I don't have to get one until my current photo less Drivers license expires in 2005.

Dash8King · Wed Jan 07, 2004 12:44 pm

NWAFA, every carrier will accept you on domestic flights without ID. How many F/A's from different carriers have stated that? Or maybe you did not read them because you wanted to quickly bash Southwest? If I am in Winnipeg( I am from Yellowknife so that is a few thousand miles away) and I get robbed, should I wait there for a week to get my ID even after going through secondary screening? I feel safer flying next to someone who has no ID because they went through the extra screening, a terrorist will not mind showing their ID because they are going to kill themselves anyways. It has been stated many times, that on all domestic flights you do not need a Photo ID as long as you do not pose a threat. So relax, Southwest is not SATAN like some of you would like to believe. I feel sorry for you closed minded people. Instead of waisting our time by posting that crap why not just make an anti-Southwest homepage.

Dash8King · Wed Jan 07, 2004 12:47 pm

Any educated person would know that a "government ID" has a photo on it!

Based on your posts vs GoingBoeing I would say he is a lot more educated then you.

sprxflySWA · Wed Jan 07, 2004 12:53 pm

Hey, Dash8King, how are things in YZF?
I have always wanted to visit there , what is a good time to go? Any cheaper in , say, Sept or Oct?
Any info would be appreciated.
Oh, website address could be: www.Makin'$$$.swa/fo.com Big grin

goingboeing · Wed Jan 07, 2004 12:59 pm

STOP THE PRESSES!!!! This just in from the Northwest Airlines website:

What identification passengers will need at the airport:

All passengers age 18 and older will be required to
present valid government-issued photo identification (federal, state, or local). Example: driver's license or passport.
In the absence of government issued photo identification, two forms of identification will be required, one of which must be government-issued. Example: social security card and a WorldPerks card.
All passengers must carry government-issued identification with them at all times and may be asked to show identification at check-in and during boarding.

Looks like all I need to get on a Northwest flight is my Social Security Card and a WorldPerks card. Not slinging any mud at Northwest airlines, just pointing out to a Northwest employee that they should be familiar with their own rules before they demand that Southwest be reported to the government. Damn good thing A&E didn't cover NWA - might have had to show an FA escorting the person with no ID but two security checks off the plane.

ssides · Wed Jan 07, 2004 1:02 pm

A lot of this depends on the airport. I just got off a DCA-DFW flight on AA, and I did not have to show ID prior to boarding at either airport. This is because these airports require IDs to be shown at the security checkpoint. Assuming the security people do their jobs, the ID at the gate is unnecessary.

Dash8King · Wed Jan 07, 2004 1:10 pm

SprxflySWA, it really depends on what you want to do. If you want to catch some huge fish well then I would come during the summer, if you want to catch the Northern lights then I would go during February. I would recommend coming during the summer however because it is beautiful scenery, lots of places to hike, you can go canoeing, fishing, whatever you are into. I don't think Air Tickets are to expensive, get to YEG and you can fly on First Air or CDN North for about 500 round trip. Who knows maybe you can get an employee to give you a buddy pass for a buddy pass on Southwest in return(not sure if you would be into that). you can catch pricing and what not. Let me know if you want to know anything specific.

gamps · Wed Jan 07, 2004 1:24 pm

I thought ID requirement varies from airport to airport?

Flying out of ORD when I showed my DL, the agent immediately gave it back and specifically said "Every airport has its own policy. Here we don't need photo id".

sprxflySWA · Wed Jan 07, 2004 1:26 pm

The TSA sets where at each airport the ID is shown. They are moving to show all ID at security checkpoint, thus having secondary more intrusive search done there, and not at gate.
Eventually, all airports will be on the same page in this regard.

UALPHLCS · Wed Jan 07, 2004 1:28 pm

Oh come on...

Lets say someone had ID when they flew to point A where after a lovely time thier wallet was lost or stolen. How do they get back to point B?

The simple answer is TSA and the airlines, ALL OF THEM, have procedures in place if someone doesn't have a government issed photo ID. One of them is to make the person go through secondary screening have them picked apart then allowed on board.

Do you really think that a terrorist wouldn't have and ID?

All the 9-11 ba$tards had ID. Mostly ID is used to make sure that the person travelling is the person on the ticket. Too often in the past, tickets were bought and sold or traded at the last minute and the airline didn't really know who was on board in case of a true emergency. With ID check they know who they have. Someone without ID we check more thoughly by the airline still can be reasonable sure who they have IS the person one the ticket.

As the WN agent correctly asserted to that paranoid woman, She knew more about what that man was carrying on board than she knew about the woman complaining.

FYI some NJ drivers licences DO NOT have a PHOTO. What do we do? I have accepted a BJ's card that had a photo WITH th non-photo NJ DL. Guess what the TSA had no problem with that.

Lighten up people.

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