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CanadianNorth
Topic Author
Posts: 3287
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2002 11:41 am

US Cancelling Foreign Flts From Threats...

Wed Jan 07, 2004 11:12 am

With all this talk of them cancelling flts on BA and Air France and all because of security threats I just have 2 questions.

#1. of you were a terrorist would it not make sence to make a threat againts airline A then while everyones looking over there you sneak on airline B??

#2. most of these are foreign airlines. Ever noticed on 9/11/01 the highjackers were on the USA's own carriers?



Thanks much
CanadianNorth
 
haveric
Posts: 1219
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 9:31 am

RE: US Cancelling Foreign Flts From Threats...

Wed Jan 07, 2004 11:21 am

Terrorist and "make sense" don't belong in the same sentence. People here and elsewhere give them much more credit than the scum deserve. At least in my opinion.

Eric
 
bistro1200
Posts: 312
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2003 7:13 am

RE: US Cancelling Foreign Flts From Threats...

Wed Jan 07, 2004 11:25 am

1. Sneak onto airline B? Are you kidding? If security agents are looking for you, it doesn't matter what airline you are on, they will find you. They are scrubbing the pax lists for ALL inbound aircraft/flights, not just AF and BA.

2. Yeah, I noticed that you f--king jackass. The US implemented security measures to protect our carriers (Reinforced cockpit doors, air marshalls, armed pilots, new training for FAs, the list goes on). However some/most foreign airlines have not implemented as many measures as the USA. Therefore they are not as secure. Not to mention that the latest intelligence suggests that terrorists are attempting to gain control of foreign carriers, not US carriers. Thus, more scrutiny is placed upon said foreign carriers. How hard is that to understand?

It amazes me how so many people on this forum second guess the CIA, FBI, NSA, MI5, and all of the other intelligence professionals worldwide attempting to stop the next terror attack. The real question is why do people feel they are qualified to act as critics for anti-terror operations?
 
ATL2CDG
Posts: 277
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 3:13 am

RE: US Cancelling Foreign Flts From Threats...

Wed Jan 07, 2004 11:25 am

Haveric:

I presume you think the actions of the Bush administration post-9/11 have anymore common sense than others?

Terrorists are not stupid. They are not animals. They are individuals whose judgement has been clouded by dominating radicals and who feel violence is the only means to an end.

Interesting: with that definition, I suppose one could call the Bush administration terrorists. How fitting.

ATL2CDG
 
Mir
Posts: 19491
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: US Canceling Foreign Flts From Threats...

Wed Jan 07, 2004 11:30 am

With regard to question 2, I think that after 9/11 the US got its act together with airline security and immigration, and that terrorists would now find it exponentially harder to get onto a plane with anything that could do damage, or even to get into the country at all. So the attention turns elsewhere, which means to foreign carriers. However, I don't see why it was BA and AF that got all the scrutiny, because I'm sure that British and French security is more than adequate, possibly better than the US. You'd think that some of the flight from countries with less tight security would get the attention of terrorists (and probably they are getting it, as you mentioned in question 1). I think the government should look at these flights also. They probably are, but all the commotion about guns on planes has created somewhat of a stir in US-Europe relations, which weren't at their all-time high at the moment to begin with, and I think it was mostly unnecessary

But the thing is, I think terrorists are done with planes for the time being. Security is too tight, and the whole system is being watched too much. In my opinion, anything that happens with the air travel system is only a tactic to create fear (in which case it worked rather well), or a diversion. I think the next big attack (yes, unfortunately it will come one day) will be with something else.
 
CanadianNorth
Topic Author
Posts: 3287
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2002 11:41 am

RE: US Cancelling Foreign Flts From Threats...

Wed Jan 07, 2004 12:26 pm

well i dont want to upset/anger anyone here for a start. All i am doing is pointing out 2 simple facts, and its Canada, and Canada happens to be another free country with freedom of speech.

Also, sometimes the USA seems terrified about terrorism, and thats exactly what the terrorists set out to do. If you let them scare you away from flying, then you might aswell let them win.



CanadianNorth
 
Mir
Posts: 19491
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: US Cancelling Foreign Flts From Threats...

Wed Jan 07, 2004 12:34 pm

Also, sometimes the USA seems terrified about terrorism, and thats exactly what the terrorists set out to do. If you let them scare you away from flying, then you might aswell let them win.

Unfortunately, I think you're exactly right. We are doing just that. How I wish you were wrong.
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: US Cancelling Foreign Flts From Threats...

Wed Jan 07, 2004 3:22 pm

It will pass with time hopefully. I think people will come to regard "Orange Alerts" as nothing out of the ordinary eventually. Society will return to normal faster than we expect.....And honestly, are we letting the terrorists win right now? Hells no, the US/Western world is as strong as ever.

As horrible as 9/11 was it didn't do much to hurt our resolve and we are more focused on eliminating terrorism than ever. And despite what many people say, I don't think the fear people have of terrorism has changed our patterns that much. It surely hasn't for me or most of the people I know, and I witnessed 9/11 from a few blocks away.

Yes, things are different. While we are in orange alert, police officers take a look in my express bus everyday as we enter the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel but I don't let it bother me much. Because otherwise they do win and you would be right.
 
orbis
Posts: 199
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 2:15 pm

RE: US Cancelling Foreign Flts From Threats...

Wed Jan 07, 2004 3:38 pm

I have one question:

Why don't the US authorities are concerned as much for the long haul flights departing from Mexico to Europe as for the ones (relatively smaller AC) that fly to USA?

Controls are much milder in LH, KL, IB and BA flights from MX), Mexico">MEX than the ones with AM and MX flights to LAX and ORD..........and they ALL are fully fueled widebodies crossing the US territory northbound !!!!!!

 
LoneStarMike
Posts: 2808
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2000 1:02 pm

RE: US Cancelling Foreign Flts From Threats...

Wed Jan 07, 2004 4:30 pm

I think that after 9/11 the US got its act together with airline security and immigration, and that terrorists would now find it exponentially harder to get onto a plane with anything that could do damage, or even to get into the country at all.

And yet in a weeks time not one but two bodies have been found in wheel wells - one on an American Airlines flight from Jamaica and the other on a British Airways flight from London.Imagine if one of those stowaways had explosives strapped onto their bodies.

But the thing is, I think terrorists are done with planes for the time being. Security is too tight, and the whole system is being watched too much.

Terrorists might not be able to use an airplane as a weapon, but they can still stir up a lot of trouble at the airport. I noticed yesterday in AUS that there were at least 50-60 unattended bags all bunched together near a seldom-used baggage carousel in the baggage claim area. They were probably bags that came in earlier in the day and were unclaimed. How easy would it be for some terrorist to walk in with a suitcase bomb, set it down among all these unattended bags and walk off? And I didn't see one TSA agent in the baggage claim area. They were either outside making sure no vehicles were unattended or upstairs checking IDs and screening passengers.

LoneStarMike

 
YOW4NOW
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 2:56 pm

RE: US Cancelling Foreign Flts From Threats...

Wed Jan 07, 2004 4:50 pm

Clearly US intelligence agencies have gathered information about certain people or organizations. They are acting on that intelligence. No one can fault them for that. No one, quite frankly, should second guess them. Personally, I'd much rather have my flight delayed, cancelled a few times and arrive alive then the alternative.

I don't think it's so much about being paranoid as it is about be prudent.

Apparently, security agencies in Europe are seeking out a certain someone who was scheduled to fly to Washington on BA, but failed to show up for the flight after the first cancellation.

As much as we might like to think our lives are hectic and the world should stop on a dime for our own personal needs, we are living in a different age and era. Things have changed. Time to accept that. The terrorists out there aren't stupid. They're primary goal is to create terror. Whether that terror comes in a tangible manner, such as the destruction of an aircraft and Lord knows what else, to the fear of danger itself. Terror is fear.
 
teva
Posts: 1785
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 12:31 am

RE: US Cancelling Foreign Flts From Threats...

Wed Jan 07, 2004 10:17 pm

Last week, I hear that one of the "terrorists" on the AF flight is in fact a kid with the same name. Despite the verification made by the police, AF has to cancel the flight.
Now, I hear it is not the reason. thhe reason is a no show!! This person may be a real terrorist. However, he never arrived at the airport; all the pax and luggage have been checked. So, why order the cancellation of a flight?

Suggestion for TSA and FAA and whoever you want: anytime there is a noshow on a flight, the flight has to be canceled....  Acting devilish

Teva  Nuts

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