9V-SPF
Topic Author
Posts: 1340
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2001 6:42 pm

Delta´s Business Elite Configuration

Fri Jan 30, 2004 3:19 am

This is a question I´ve been asking myself since I flew on both, Delta´s 767-300ER and 777-200ER last September (by the way, very enjoyable flights): Why do they have the same seating configuration in Business Elite on these planes (2-2-2) although, as everybody knows here, there are major differences concerning the cabin width of a 767 and a 777.
The Business Elite section looks very comfortable on the 777:

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but quite cramped on the 767:

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I think it would make more sense to use a 2-3-2 configuration on the 777 (like many competing airlines do) and a 2-1-2 configuration on the 767 if Delta doesn´t want to establish the 777 as their premium product in opposition to a "low-yield" 767.

What´s your opinion?

Daniel
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: Delta´s Business Elite Configuration

Fri Jan 30, 2004 3:25 am

DL would rather add seating capacity to its myriad 767 fleet and collect that revenue, than add additional premium seats to its eight-strong flagship fleet.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
9V-SPF
Topic Author
Posts: 1340
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2001 6:42 pm

RE: Delta´s Business Elite Configuration

Fri Jan 30, 2004 3:45 am

But wouldn´t that only make sense if they served all "premium markets" like NRT, LGW, FRA, CDG exlusively with its "flagship fleet" (I know this won´t work with only eight airplanes). Additionally they seem to change the equipment on some routes like CVG-FRA, ATL-AMS, JFK-CDG or ATL-FCO quite often so customers don´t really have the ability to make sure they will be getting the more comfortable seat on the 777.

Daniel
 
OttoPylit
Posts: 2259
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 10:58 am

RE: Delta´s Business Elite Configuration

Fri Jan 30, 2004 3:56 am

You make a valid point, but I think it is just an optical illusion really. Of course the cabin on the 777 is bigger, so it looks more spacious than the 767, but both comfortably seat those passengers without having to remove any seats.

On a side note, I was surprised when I first saw CO's BusinessFirst product with the one seat in the center. At first it seemed good, but after thinking(now remember, I haven't tried it yet) I don't know if I would feel comfortable being the only seat in the middle. I would feel a little strange, but thats probably because I am so used to having the two seats there, whether someone is in the other seat or not.
I don't have a microwave, but I do have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: Delta´s Business Elite Configuration

Fri Jan 30, 2004 5:04 am

You make a valid point, but I think it is just an optical illusion really.

not it's not, it's two completely different seat sizes  Laugh out loud


But wouldn´t that only make sense if they served all "premium markets" like NRT, LGW, FRA, CDG exlusively with its "flagship fleet"

For the forseeable future, the 772ERs will basically be devoted to TYO and PAR... with the occassional LGW/SNN/DUB/FCO/etc penciled in.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
IBERIA747
Posts: 1648
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 3:43 am

RE: Delta´s Business Elite Configuration

Fri Jan 30, 2004 5:19 am

Seat width is the same, as well as seat pitch.
The only differences are the armrests or the space between seats, which are wider in the 777, and the aisles, which are also wider in the 777.
¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
 
N6376M
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 12:54 am

RE: Delta´s Business Elite Configuration

Fri Jan 30, 2004 5:44 am

as a regular BizE flyer, all I have to say is LEAVE IT ALONE. Don't add a middle seat to your premium product!!!!!!
 
mlsrar
Posts: 1384
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2000 7:41 am

RE: Delta´s Business Elite Configuration

Fri Jan 30, 2004 5:45 am

For the forseeable future, the 772ERs will basically be devoted to TYO and PAR... with the occassional LGW/SNN/DUB/FCO/etc penciled in.

Seems to me they're sked for 1 of the 2 FRA flights from ATL.
I mean, for the right price I’ll fight a lion. - Mike Tyson
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Delta´s Business Elite Configuration

Fri Jan 30, 2004 6:23 am

Seat width is the same, as well as seat pitch.


No, it is not the same width.

N
 
IBERIA747
Posts: 1648
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 3:43 am

RE: Delta´s Business Elite Configuration

Fri Jan 30, 2004 6:27 am

"No, it is not the same width"

No?? Do you have the exact information??

I´ve tried both seats and I felt they had the same dimensions. I also noted the narrow aisles in the 767-300ER and the super wide ones in the 777.
¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
 
DeltaGuy
Posts: 3965
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 5:25 am

RE: Delta´s Business Elite Configuration

Fri Jan 30, 2004 6:31 am

On the contrary...the 767-300ER's Biz cabin is rather nice...the pitch is very good, and the seats feel just fine  Smile I mean, DL's only got 8 777's, so it has to budget them SOMEHOW....tons of aisle space isn't as important as good seats!

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Delta´s Business Elite Configuration

Fri Jan 30, 2004 6:39 am

No?? Do you have the exact information??

Yes, I do.

The 767-300ER's BusinessElite seat is 18.5" in width.

The 777-200ER's BusinessElite seat is 21" in width.

N
 
IBERIA747
Posts: 1648
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 3:43 am

RE: Delta´s Business Elite Configuration

Fri Jan 30, 2004 6:42 am

I forgot to mention...
Delta is my favourite airline. Everytime I have to take a transatlantic flight out of Spain to North/Central America I always fly with them. I lived in Guatemala City for 5 years because of my job and I used to fly to Cleveland every month during my last 3 years there (because of my job too)...I became a loyal customer for DL since then.

My 2nd favourite airline is Iberia, but that´s another story.

Regards,

Alfonso
¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
 
OttoPylit
Posts: 2259
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 10:58 am

RE: Delta´s Business Elite Configuration

Fri Jan 30, 2004 7:47 am

ConcordeBoy, don't make me come up there!!!  Laugh out loud
I don't have a microwave, but I do have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.
 
joleb
Posts: 248
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 12:01 pm

RE: Delta´s Business Elite Configuration

Fri Jan 30, 2004 8:18 am

I can confirm that the business elite on the 777 is just better than on the 767
the 777 seat is wider and easier to turn around in so really less cramped to me

767 is very narrow almost like economy
and to me just too narrow

i am 6f 3 and very fit so no saying that i have much wait

why they did that? i guess to get more money but it doesnt make the passengers happy though

i prefer the Continental businessFirst cabin
 
boeingman
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 8:08 am

RE: Delta´s Business Elite Configuration

Fri Jan 30, 2004 8:23 am

overall i odn't like the way CO, and DL st their seating arragement. i just don't like it at all.
 
Guest

RE: Delta´s Business Elite Configuration

Fri Jan 30, 2004 8:35 am

I don't find the width on the DL B767-300 Biz Elite seats to be any better than coach. Pitch is great, but width is a little annoying and there's not much elbow room during the meal. This is just observations from some domestic experiences... I have not flown DL internationally.

Now, the Business Elite cabin on the MD-11.... what a lovely ride.
 
n102daman
Posts: 153
Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2003 3:59 pm

RE: Delta´s Business Elite Configuration

Fri Jan 30, 2004 8:43 am

Gonna throw my 2 cents into this pot.

having flown on both aircraft in both cabins in the different configurations.

777-200ER 2x2x2 (BE) and 3x3x3 as well as the 2x5x2 (Y)
767-300ER 2x2x2 (BE) and 2x3x2 (Y)
767-400ER 2x2x2 (FC) and 2x3x2 (Y)

both aircraft have its plus and minuses. Must say that the 777 is the best and most comfortable. I am 6'3" and like the fact that I can be on the outside Isle seat and stand fully up in the 777 and the 764. The 763er is not quite as comfortable but Business Elite is just as nice. Have no problems with it at all when you look at the fact that they are two totally different airplanes and the 777 is much wider and longer than the 767. Of course the Biz Elite cabin is gonna be more comfortable. Super nice ride both times on the DL 777. Chose flights 58 and 59 LGW return back in AUG for that very reason. I wanted to fly on a DL 777. But will take the 767 product just as readily. Both GREAT airplanes just one is smaller than the other. I wish DL would put the 777 interiors in all the 767s like the 764s.

I get to try the Domestic Business elite product tomorrow ATL - SEA. Cant wait one of DLs great 767-300ERs.

"Long Live the Delta Workhorse"

Fly widget Fly

"Service and Hospitality from the Heart." (C. E. Woolman, Delta airlines first CEO and founder.)
 
jeckPDX
Posts: 250
Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2003 6:12 am

RE: Delta´s Business Elite Configuration

Fri Jan 30, 2004 9:35 am

AAJAX: I agree, the MD-11 bizElite cabin was awesome. Only had the chance to fly it once, CVG-PDX, but we were delayed 2 hrs. on the ground and I didn't mind at all thanks to the seat!

I also prefer the 2-1-2 seating arrangement on CO's 767's. Although it may seem a little strange sitting alone in the center (especially when you look back and see 3 seats in the same space!) but it frees up sapce to make all five BF seats more spacious and contributes to a more comfortable flight. I'm not saying DL should necessarily reconfigure their a/c, but it may be a reason for some high-paying passengers to take either the 777, or if it is not offered on a particular route, another airline. (such as CO)

Just my opinion
Safe flying to all: JeckPDX
"Beer is proof that God Loves us and wanted People to be Happy" - Ben Franklin
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: Delta´s Business Elite Configuration

Fri Jan 30, 2004 10:03 am

ConcordeBoy, don't make me come up there!!!

 Confused  Confused  Confused
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
HNLFlyBoy
Posts: 318
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2004 12:01 pm

RE: Delta´s Business Elite Configuration

Sat Jan 31, 2004 3:36 pm

OttoPylit,

The only complaint that I have heard about CO's BF single seat in the middle is that if you are resting your elbows on the armrests of your seat, you risk getting hit on both sides by the service carts when they are in the aisle. I don't mind a single seat though.
 
MD-90
Posts: 7836
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

1-2-2 All The Way

Sat Jan 31, 2004 3:58 pm

I think I'd prefer another airline I saw that seats it's business class as 1-2-2 on their 767s, which is kind of weird, but I'd prefer that over the seat in the middle all by itself.

Then again I'm one of those weird ones who prefers 3-4-2 seating in the back of 777s and MD-11s.
 
bizelite14
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 12:34 pm

RE: Delta´s Business Elite Configuration

Sat Jan 31, 2004 5:05 pm

Well my username is pretty self-explanatory, now isnt it.....

First off, the MD-11 had the best businesselite configuration with the most isle space. As with the seat particulars, i am not exactly sure, i never flew on one, very unfortunately!

Look, the bizelite on the 767-300ER is just fine the way it is. It is not cramped at all. The recline is 160 degrees, the most on any trans-atlantic business class.

3 inches in width...big deal...i guess it stinks for fat people, but on the whole, i flew on both 777 and 767 bizelite cabins and i didnt notice one single difference with exception to the overhead compartments, the bathrooms (much nicer, say there's an idea, making bathrooms in business class half-way decent, I may be onto something, hello?) and more room in the isles. Other than that...both fantastic, both a 6.0E....bizelite forever!
 
nyskymasters
Posts: 143
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2004 12:41 pm

RE: Delta´s Business Elite Configuration

Sat Jan 31, 2004 10:20 pm

With regards to Co's BF center seats...it may seem "strange" at first to sit in these seats but you come to enjoy them quickly! You have access to either aisle, you don't have to maneuver around the person in the aisle seat if you are seated in next to a window, and you get to sit by yourself if you are traveling by yourself. These seats are actually the prefered seats for those passengers that are traveling alone. I have flown in the center seat on several occassions and actually love it.

As far as having to watch your elbows with the carts coming down the aisle I only have to say "what's the big deal?" There is only two times perhaps that there is a cart in the aisle and that is during the offering of desserts, etc when the flight attendants use a small cart. Otherwise no carts are allowed in the aisle in BF on Continental. I would take this small "inconvenience" any day of the week to ride BF.
 
B4REAL
Posts: 2614
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 5:53 am

RE: Delta´s Business Elite Configuration

Sun Feb 01, 2004 3:26 am

Boeingman:

I think CO did their biz right. DL is very different, and in my opinion, an inferior product to CO's BusinessFirst.

The 2.1.2 on the 767 is great (I think it is 2.2.2 on 777).

DL's BusinessElite is - okay - Okay for what it is today. Years ago when US-Based airlines relaunched their business versus first (and many got rid of First), this new biz concept being more premium, BusinessElite was good stuff. But the 777 and the now retired MD-11 both had a superior configuration for the BusinessElite product compared to the 767. It all comes down to economics, DL can operate more destinations with 767s than they could w/ more 777s.

DL is my favorite airline, btw
B4REAL, spelled like it sounds & @RickVanover on Twitter
 
jumbojet
Posts: 2939
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 3:01 am

RE: Delta´s Business Elite Configuration

Sun Feb 01, 2004 3:55 am

I've flown 763 biz class seat cdg to jfk this past December, and again this month, jfk to fco. I can't compare it to other airlines, but the 2-2-2 was just fine. For those with window seats, there is very little manuevering around to do to get to the aisle. The person in the aisle seat doesnt have to move or get up. The seat is fully automated with adjustable foot rest.

As far as the 2-1-2 config, i guess it boils down to perception.

I've heard that AA's 777 biz class has seats that recline 180 degrees, a sleeper seat?
 
jumbojet
Posts: 2939
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 3:01 am

RE: Delta´s Business Elite Configuration

Sun Feb 01, 2004 4:09 am

Clearly, the AA biz class seems to be the most comfortable.


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ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: Delta´s Business Elite Configuration

Sun Feb 01, 2004 4:26 am

The recline is 160 degrees, the most on any trans-atlantic business class.


Hate to break this to you, but it's now actually one of the least  Sad



Clearly, the AA biz class seems to be the most comfortable.

sorry bub, but that's 1st class you're looking at, not Business  Big grin
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
jumbojet
Posts: 2939
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 3:01 am

RE: Delta´s Business Elite Configuration

Sun Feb 01, 2004 4:29 am

concordeboy

no matter where it is, still gotta be the most comy seat around!!
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: Delta´s Business Elite Configuration

Sun Feb 01, 2004 4:57 am

....tell that to Emirates  Laugh out loud

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Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
sllevin
Posts: 3314
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 1:57 pm

RE: Delta´s Business Elite Configuration

Sun Feb 01, 2004 5:02 am

I haven't flown DL, but I've flown AA's J in 2-2-2 and I have to agree that it's sub-par -- the difference in width is noticable. It's okay, but there's not nearly the feeling of "space" that one would expect. You pretty much have to sit straight forward the whole flight -- you can't shift your seating position at all because the seat is too narrow. I much prefer NW's old barcalounger style WBC seats by comparison.

There's also very little separation of the seats (the center armrests are narrower) so shoulder space is at a premium.

Steve
 
Delta767300ER
Posts: 2436
Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2003 7:12 pm

RE: Delta´s Business Elite Configuration

Sun Feb 01, 2004 7:04 am

I have enjoyed Delta's Biz Elite on the 767-300. I hope they wouldnt go to a 2-1-2. I would feel weird in the middle.

-Delta767300ER
 
9V-SPF
Topic Author
Posts: 1340
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2001 6:42 pm

RE: Delta´s Business Elite Configuration

Sun Feb 01, 2004 7:21 am

By the way, I remember boarding a DL flight from FRA to CVG in 1998 when they still had a First Class. If my memory serves me well, they had a 2-1-2 configuration in that class. Did anyone experience those seats? It would be interesting to compare them to today´s Biz Elite seats.

Daniel
 
KKMolokai
Posts: 741
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2000 2:06 am

RE: Delta´s Business Elite Configuration

Sun Feb 01, 2004 7:46 pm

When AA still had 3-class service on their 767-300's, it was a 2-1-2 seating in First with lie flat seat/beds. I personally didn't enjoy sitting in the single/middle seat. As previously mentioned, you constantly had to be aware of carts, etc. coming through the aisles. Also, because there was only one seat, the little table normally between seats (for drinks) was on the arm rest, and a constant watch was needed to ensure it wasn't knocked over by a flight attendant or passenger coming through the aisles.

The 2-2-2 config in Business is fine on the 763's. With 60-inches of legroom between seats, it certainly beats the 2-3-2 config in Coach.
We are the people of American Airlines. And we know why you fly.
 
cadet93
Posts: 132
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2003 12:56 am

RE: Delta´s Business Elite Configuration

Sun Feb 01, 2004 11:40 pm

I fly BUSINESS FIRST on CO all the time. The single isle of seats down the center is nice AFTER the plane is loaded and the door is closed. The coach passenger feel that if the line of passengers is going to slow, they are allowed to walk right in front of the person in the center seats. I usually fly with my partner, and we are in 1 A,B or 2 A,B. Once I flew in the center seat, after about the third person walking and kicking over the bag at my feet, I stopped the next young girl and told her to walk down the isle and cross at the galley. She got snippy with me about stopping her. I told her I paid 5 times more for my seat and this is my space. If she wanted the space she should pay for extra space also. In the mean time, this is not her personal highway, I prefer that you not kick my bag, or knock my drink over, and to please use the isle. The FA was watching and he got a big kick out of it. He said they try to stop people from walking thru, but they cant catch them all. I then put my leg rest up and that stopped it.
That problem and the people walking on both sides of you are the only problems with those seats. But the privacy is the best for traveling alone. No one talking to you when you want to watch the movies, read, or sleep.

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