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thestooges
Topic Author
Posts: 157
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2001 4:46 pm

America West To . . Australia?!?!

Sun Feb 01, 2004 10:31 am

Although this could never feasibly happen and in many ways might seem like a very stupid idea, I was just looking at all the routes America West have out of Pheonix and realized that it would be a great city to fly directly to Australia from. Im sure a 747-400 (or a plane with similar range i.e. A340-600), could fly there nonstop from Sydney, Melbourne or Auckland. The passengers would have a myriad amount of connecting options from Pheonix, and this could provide a viable third competitor for the United/ Air New Zealand/ Star Alliance and Qantas/ American/ One World duopoly on traffic between the U.S. and Oz/NZ. And they are a in a much better position in terms of hub location than the other majors Delta, Northwest, Continental and USAirways.

Unfourtunately this probably would be a bit too much for America West to take on, their attempt on flying to Japan with 747's over ten years ago didnt last very long.

After all this talk of whether another US carrier will ever serve Oz I think America West doing so seems like the most practical option even if one of the least tangible.
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition !!
 
DeltaMD11
Posts: 1680
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RE: America West To . . Australia?!?!

Sun Feb 01, 2004 10:34 am

For some reason I highly doubt that idea will ever come to fruition. Actually for a multitude of reasons.
Too often we ... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. - John Fitzgerald Kennedy
 
trijetfan1
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RE: America West To . . Australia?!?!

Sun Feb 01, 2004 10:42 am

I agree with DeltaMD11, this probably wont go through. America West might be reluctant to start something like that because they almost went down in Chap. 11 when they had B-747 service to Nagoya. However this is a good idea because they could offer low fare service to Southern Pacific destiantions. Also passengers could avoid the hassle of LAX.
Earned PPL June 26, 2007
 
PSAjet17
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RE: America West To . . Australia?!?!

Sun Feb 01, 2004 10:45 am

The city name is PHOENIX!
 
desertjets
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RE: America West To . . Australia?!?!

Sun Feb 01, 2004 10:48 am

Actually... America West did apply for route authorities to Australia. Which was going to be a continuation of their Honolulu service from Phoenix and Las Vegas.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
 
phatfarmlines
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RE: America West To . . Australia?!?!

Sun Feb 01, 2004 10:51 am

Thestooges:

While you did state your idea would never be feasible, I would not be surprised that HP would never start a PHX-Australia route. You stated that HP's move would be more beneficial than NW, but NW and CO did fly to Australia once upon a time. I think NW restarting Australia from the West Coast of the U.S. would be more feasible.
 
Russophile
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RE: America West To . . Australia?!?!

Sun Feb 01, 2004 11:03 am

Not saying it would have been feasible, but HP service to .au would have been more feasible back in the days when Ansett owned 20% of the airline -- there would have been more of a strategic interest by Ansett to feed into their flights.
 
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KaiGywer
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RE: America West To . . Australia?!?!

Sun Feb 01, 2004 11:06 am

Did AWA actually fly to Japan? Is it the same AWA that flies as an LCC today?
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
alphascan
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RE: America West To . . Australia?!?!

Sun Feb 01, 2004 11:11 am

They got as far as Hawaii, and it nearly drove them out of business. They never went to Japan.
"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
 
phatfarmlines
Posts: 1519
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RE: America West To . . Australia?!?!

Sun Feb 01, 2004 11:12 am

They never went to Japan.

Actually, they did serve NGO via HNL, abeit it was short-lived.
 
lahaina
Posts: 238
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RE: America West To . . Australia?!?!

Sun Feb 01, 2004 11:13 am

America West will be flying to Sydney from HNL via code share with Hawaiian Air. Hawaiian Air will begin service from HNL to Sydney in May this year, using a 767-300 aircraft, operating four times weekly, on the days that Qantas does not have a flight to HNL from Sydney.
 
ORDnDFW777
Posts: 164
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RE: America West To . . Australia?!?!

Sun Feb 01, 2004 11:14 am

There's a reason they are called AmericaWorst. God forbid they try to fly PHX - SYD!
 
tpk
Posts: 188
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2000 4:48 am

RE: America West To . . Australia?!?!

Sun Feb 01, 2004 11:20 am

Unless the flight times of the HA PHX flight are changed, it won't connect to the SYD flight. HA stated in its press release that the HNL-SYD flight will depart HNL at 1:30 pm. The current HA flight from PHX doesn't even arrive HNL until after 3 pm. The return is not a great connection either. I suppose maybe the itinerary could be sold with a stopover in HNL.

It will be interesting to see what happens with this since many HA's other flights from the mainland will also not connect given their present schedules.
 
DeltaMD11
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RE: America West To . . Australia?!?!

Sun Feb 01, 2004 11:29 am

The "AmericaWorst" title can really be considered something of the past. If you look at their on-time performance, complaint rates, and other statistics they are pretty much running in the middle of the pack out of the US majors. They have really turned around in the last 4 or 5 years. Since 1999, I've logged more than 24 flights in with America West and I will still continue to fly them. Their aircraft are clean, reliable, customer service is nothing to boast about but they get the job done, and have pretty reasonable fares across the board. That and they don't require any Sat-night stays and they wont gouge you for last minute fares like most airlines do. America West also made it to Frankfurt (I believe it was FRA, may have been Dusseldorf) a few times on charter flights believe it or not with their 742's.

Last August I had family flying in from San Diego. Usually they take United or American out. My uncle is a naval aviator and is very very picky about what airlines he flies on for some reason. To make a long story short I convinced him to fly out on America West on the basis that any time I've flown them out there, they have gotten me and my luggage there on time (except once, in which my luggage didn't make a connecting flight but that cant be held against them). So they tried it, and loved it. 4 perfect flights which really capped off a nice trip back home to visit family.

Too often we ... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. - John Fitzgerald Kennedy
 
alphascan
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RE: America West To . . Australia?!?!

Sun Feb 01, 2004 11:29 am

Phatfarmlines, Tpk:

I stand corrected. Thank you.
"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
 
sprxflySWA
Posts: 587
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 3:37 am

RE: America West To . . Australia?!?!

Sun Feb 01, 2004 12:26 pm

Why would it "be a great city to fly directly to Australia from"? What makes it so special?
I can just see a fully fuel/pax laden 747-400 taking off in 115 degrees F.

I am sure if they had the a/c capable of such a route, they could come up with somewhere else to go.

Most folks in the cities HP flies to aren't really the type to go to Australia. And in the larger cities HP flies to, there are already enough options for anyone who wants to go down under.

Speaking of Hawaiian, I hope this time they make a better go of Australia flights than the last time.
 
uadc8contrail
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RE: America West To . . Australia?!?!

Sun Feb 01, 2004 12:38 pm

learjet23,
post like that usually have ual in it, know how you feel,,,,xmas eve 92 left 7 of us at the gate with the a/c still parked,,,btw bags made the conx but hp elected not to hold the flt even thought it sat there for at least 5 mins before the push......gate agent actually went down the jetway stairs as she had to know that there were pax in the gate room......have only once flown hp since then and it was only o/w phx-san
Bus Driver
 
flyboyaz
Posts: 2077
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 11:32 am

RE: America West To . . Australia?!?!

Sun Feb 01, 2004 1:15 pm

It is a bit far fetched in my opinion, not any time soon for sure! I would love to see us expand our markets but Oz is a bit far..hehe.

Boy Mr. Lear, I haven't talk like that in a long time! Let me clarify some points for you:

Concerning the baggage, you are completely wrong. If you are connecting onto another international carrier, we honor their baggage limits. The exception is to Mexico and Canada. We were the last airline to implement the 50 lb baggage rule (have to keep up with the Jones' I guess).

I know of no policy concerning weighing carry-on bags, but I can tell you I've lifted some 50 pound "carry ons" into the jetway when the planes get in. I think it's a great idea to weigh them. My good friend ended up with a spinal injury after some moron decided to put a heavy bag in the overhead and it fell right on his head. He was out of work for over a year.

Every airline charges penalties for changes, we are actually one of the most lenient airlines around, though we are being pressured more not to waive things. Try going to DL and asking them to waive a fee for you! CO has the firing squad on standby if we get caught waiving fees for their passengers.

Our turnover rate has dropped SIGNIFICANTLY. We used to have a huge turnover in TUS...we haven't had anyone leave in about a year (voluntarily). Most employees were very happy when they took their bonus checks to the bank last week.  Smile

We have been posting record load factors all year. Considering alot of our traffic comes from AZ, I would say we're pretty popular here. I don't think your friends should be really concerned with what we put in our mouths anyhow.

I truly am sorry that you've had a bad experience(s) with us. I never like to see angry passengers. No airline is perfect, but in case your weren't aware, Southwest has about 14 nonstop flights a day from PHX-LAX. I'm sure they would be happy to fly you. Who knows, maybe you might even get caught during the filming of "Airline". Then you'd be a celebrity!!  Smile
Catch a ride on a smile!
 
elwood64151
Posts: 2410
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2002 10:22 am

RE: America West To . . Australia?!?!

Sun Feb 01, 2004 1:46 pm

I've seen so many complaints about HP's service. All I can say is, it's no worse, nor any better, than any of the "legacy" carriers (except CO, those guys do an awesome job!).

While I think PHX-SYD on HP could work, HP is not currently in a financial position to do it.

If they gain some liquidity, they could operate 767-300ER/LR or -400ER/LR (leased, of course) on the route. Of course, they could also use A330s of appropriate variety. I don't think they could afford 744, even leased. Even A330 would be somewhat expensive.

However, they have to get route authority first.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
 
wgw2707
Posts: 1113
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 10:37 am

RE: America West To . . Australia?!?!

Sun Feb 01, 2004 2:00 pm

America West was a terrible airline in the mid 1990s, going in and out of bankruptcy... Recently I was hearing good things about them but my positive perception of them faded when they announced tray table ads. I wouldn't mind it though if they did launch long-haul international routes, for the sake of competition. Currently the US has only 6 carriers serving the long haul international routes and if US Airways fails it will be down to 5.

However, I don't think that PHX-SYD is a good route for a wide variety of reasons. To my knowledge no one has ever operated a flight to Sydney from Phoenix. The yields from connecting traffic are never as good as O&D yields, and there are plenty of other cities that would be more than happy to host such a service that would probably offer better yields. On HP's route structure even LAS might be better. However both of HP's hubs suffer from extreme heat in the summer months, sometimes reaching nearly 130 degrees farenheit. This would interfere to some extent with the long haul flights.

I do agree that there should be another US carrier flying to Australia, and I do agree that HP should start long haul flights if it is feasible for them to do so, however I do not think it would be wise for HP to consider flying to Australia at this time.

-WGW2707
 
LEARJET23
Posts: 244
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2004 6:50 am

RE: America West To . . Australia?!?!

Sun Feb 01, 2004 2:22 pm

Whoever works for HP... The baggage rules are YOURS! And they are enforced to the letter. HP WILL NOT (I called the HQ in Tempe and was told anything over 50 lbs WILL BE CHARGED EXTRA! Regardless of interline connection so you are wrong! I had to pay over $300.00 the last time more than I have ever been charged before, as God almighty is my witness your ticket agent made my wife un pack and re pack her carry on right at the counter! DID Have me and her place ALL our carry on items on the scale, and said we were 2 lbs over... IN CARRY ON! So for HP.. We tossed out the candy and water, made your idiot shut the hell up, than re purchased the same items in the gate hold area! I sent a letter to NWA and told them I had had enough! The only reason I ever flew HP was because they interlined for NWA! If you take NWA #001 from PHX they will ALWAYS stick you on this sorry airline to suffer the misery that is known as America West. My three 70 lb bags checked through to NRT in Business First should have been two free, and third for $160. HP Collected $160 for the extra 40 lbs ([email protected] $2= $80, plus 160 for number three plus another $80 (20 lbs @$4=$80) that's a quick $ 240 that NWA said was un called for! But also said it could not control what HP does. I now fly UNITED! No problems...And no feeble bullshit like the human waste one has to deal with at Americas Worst excuse for an airline.
 
PVD757
Posts: 3281
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 8:23 pm

RE: America West To . . Australia?!?!

Sun Feb 01, 2004 2:31 pm

The reason for an interline agreement is for ease of use. Southwest has no interline agreements. Learjet would have to claim his bag and recheck-in. We would have to check whether this would be better or not.  Nuts
 
Guest

RE: America West To . . Australia?!?!

Sun Feb 01, 2004 2:48 pm

Learjet23, your just someone who is pissed because YOU cant follow the rules. UA, NWA, HP, US etc. all have the 50 pound max rule for domestics flights. I just checked their websites.

Your an adult learn how to follow the rules. I love HP and will always choose them over anyone else.
 
Prinair
Posts: 638
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 1999 7:28 am

RE: America West To . . Australia?!?!

Sun Feb 01, 2004 5:46 pm

Learjet 23 needs to stop whining like a child. If he would bother to look up the HP website he would see that it clearly states that if you are connecting to an international carrier flying to an international destination (other than Canada or Mexico) your weight allowance is then 70lbs per bag (up to two bags per person).

Keep in mind that anytime a connection exceeds more than four hours then the domestic carrier should not be checking the bags all the way to the final destination. In that case you would be charged as a domestic passenger.

If your connecting international flight was within 4 hours of the domestic arrival and HP overcharged you then I suggest that you send copies of your tickets and a note explaining the situation to their customer relations office.
HP is very good about researching and correcting issues like this. They will get back to you and if needed will compensate you.

HP agents are very knowledgeable about their baggage rules and have seen many of them try to work with passengers when it comes to resolving an overweight bag issue (when they suggest you repack your items it is usually because they are trying to spread the weight around more evenly within the bags to see if they can bring them down to the allowed limitation).

You bags probably weighed more than 70 pounds if you were charged.
PRINAIR - Puerto Rico International Airlines
 
User avatar
ERJ135
Posts: 684
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RE: America West To . . Australia?!?!

Sun Feb 01, 2004 6:50 pm

While i'm a little off tack here, I do remember during our Pilots strike some years ago thar Ansett had an aircraft or two from America West flying locally, so they've been here already. I think they were wet leases for about six weeks or so.
I so want to fly on SCAT one day!
 
jeckPDX
Posts: 250
Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2003 6:12 am

RE: America West To . . Australia?!?!

Sun Feb 01, 2004 8:18 pm

The only problem I have ever had with HP back in 1998 (I am a flightFund member and fly frequently) was at BWI when my luggage was stolen and my tickets lost. CO employees code-share for HP @ BWI and were beyond rude in resolving the matter. I ended up purchasing a $750 walk up fare just to get th PHX! Back in PHX with HP personnel, my issue was resoved immeadiately, tickets to my final destination reprinted, and my credit card credited the $750 I had payed to get to PHX. They also gave me first upgrades for my next 5 flights and a $200 travel voucher for the inconvienence.

Back on topic, schedeuled service to AU would be welcome, but unlikely

JeckPDX
"Beer is proof that God Loves us and wanted People to be Happy" - Ben Franklin
 
uadc8contrail
Posts: 1659
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:23 am

RE: America West To . . Australia?!?!

Sun Feb 01, 2004 9:51 pm

2 quick questions in here,
lear---did you ask to speak to a supr????im sure if you presented the intl coupon that it should have reverted to the intl leg as far as bag allowances go, at least it is that way at ua.

any hp people in here,
does hp apply the conx interline intl bag allowances to the pax or does hp use their bag allowances on the domestic portion of the trip???
Bus Driver
 
elwood64151
Posts: 2410
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2002 10:22 am

RE: America West To . . Australia?!?!

Sun Feb 01, 2004 10:54 pm

Southwest has no interline agreements.

Actually, they had an interline baggage agreement with NJ. I transferred more than one bag via the ramp...

WGW:

I'm not so sure about the loads out of PHX. There are a lot of retirees in the area, and they might be turned on by, say, a 3x weekly flight to SYD. In addition, PHX is host to the HQs of several large companies, and I do not know if any of them have operations in au. Right now, though, HP is adding flights to Central America, a profitable area right now.

When the market turns around, I think we might expect to see HP try to open a new East Coast hub. From there, perhaps, we'll see Europe flights, if they can get it to grow.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
 
flyboyaz
Posts: 2077
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 11:32 am

RE: America West To . . Australia?!?!

Mon Feb 02, 2004 12:26 am

Sorry Learjet about the incident, but yes you should have talked to a supervisor. When we first implemented the 50lb bag rule we did not honor a connecting carriers agreement, obviously with passengers like you, many complaints were received and we changed the policy. We DO honor the connecting carriers baggage limits and it's common knowledge among all agents. Granted some aren't the sharpest tools in the shed, but if you have any questions, just ask to speak to someone else. We are always willing to help when passengers come up with overweight bags...we give them the option of repacking or getting another bag. I am very strict with the baggage rules, this is mostly due to the small RJ's that we have and also to avoid any injuries on the ramp. Most bags are right around 50lbs or under anyway. I can tell you one thing, as nice as I am, you start talkin like that around me or one of my agents and you won't be goin anywhere on any of my planes.  Smile

[Edited 2004-02-01 16:27:50]
Catch a ride on a smile!
 
geg2rap
Posts: 739
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2003 11:02 am

RE: America West To . . Australia?!?!

Mon Feb 02, 2004 3:01 am

Learjet23
Add to that list alaska southwest, jetblue all 50 lbs bags, they do it cause people are willing to pay it.
case and point
 
flyboyaz
Posts: 2077
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 11:32 am

RE: America West To . . Australia?!?!

Mon Feb 02, 2004 3:07 am

Of course it's all about money. When CO came out with the policy, they sent out a flyer to the stations explaining why they did it. Money! They said they will make more money by lowering the weight limit because more bags weighed between 50 and 70 lbs than over 70lbs. It's also to reduce injuries and lower fuel costs, but unfortunately, those are secondary.
Catch a ride on a smile!
 
sprxflySWA
Posts: 587
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 3:37 am

RE: America West To . . Australia?!?!

Mon Feb 02, 2004 3:11 am

GEG2RAP,
Actually, Southwest is STILL 70 pounds. I wish we'd go to 50 as well.

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