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industrybuff
Topic Author
Posts: 313
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 9:36 am

UA Sevice Levels - Why So Average?

Tue Feb 03, 2004 1:49 pm

This is something that really hartens me to talk about
I stepped off UA863 into SYD this morning after another very bland and average flight on UA. OLD 747-400's - no personal entertainment, food that I wouldnt ever serve my dog, service that is very - ah ha yeah honey .... but still the flight was FULL ...

HOW COME

What hold does UA have on the pacific. I love anything American and even though im Australian, I have a very real patriotic side to the US and hance choose to fly on regular fares that go standby (hate standby - whole other story)

Why would I continue to fly UA transpac when the whole experience is so darn average ! its actually boring ....

HELP UA - they need it !
 
freshlove1
Posts: 1245
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:38 pm

RE: UA Sevice Levels - Why So Average?

Tue Feb 03, 2004 2:27 pm

It's called Chapter 11, it might get better later on once they emerge from it, but don't hold your breath.
 
ual777contrail
Posts: 2914
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2002 11:33 am

RE: UA Sevice Levels - Why So Average?

Tue Feb 03, 2004 3:36 pm

Our 747's aren't old, and none of them have PTV'S.

Why do you fly UAL? The service in my opinion is always good, are you use to flying someone else? I have flown flights on UAL that are 13 and the longest was 14 hours and I had a good time, food on ANY AIRLINE SUCKS, I wouldn't pick a flight based on food, I WOULD pick a flight based on safety record and price.


UAL 777 CONTRAIL
 
lahaina
Posts: 238
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2000 1:51 am

RE: UA Sevice Levels - Why So Average?

Tue Feb 03, 2004 4:24 pm

I would never fly UA internationally. Their level of service just doesn't measure up to JA, CX, or SQ. For flights to Australia, I would take Qantas or Air New Zealand.
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 16567
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RE: UA Sevice Levels - Why So Average?

Tue Feb 03, 2004 4:25 pm

If you're stuck in a metal tube for 14 hours and you're paying hundreds of dollars, the service should at least be more than, 'uh huh, yeah...' Foreign carriers have been, and continue to be my choice across the Pacific from both LAX and SFO. United's in flight service bang-for-buck doesn't hold a candle to that of JAL, ANA, EVA, Asiana, etc. And especially Cathay - forget it. I'll fly Cathay even if they're $200 more.

Domestically, when I fly outside of California I usually choose United out of convenience - they simply have more out of the Bay Area than other carriers, but internationally, when there's a choice, I can almost guarantee they are *not* the better choice.

 
FA4UA
Posts: 777
Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2003 6:26 pm

RE: UA Sevice Levels - Why So Average?

Tue Feb 03, 2004 4:44 pm

Sorry you had a dull experience on flight 863! It's odd because our customer service scores in our international markets are higher then the past few years!

Personally, I've flown millions of miles on UA and I've never had a bad meal... even the salmon in Economy wasn't all that terrible!

Hopefully after Ch 11 is over and we're back to a growth plan again, perhaps they'll reinvest in some PTV's in Economy on the 744s. I know there is a renewed focus on improving our international offerings so stay tuned!

FA4UA
 
industrybuff
Topic Author
Posts: 313
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 9:36 am

RE: UA Sevice Levels - Why So Average?

Tue Feb 03, 2004 6:13 pm

thanks to all those that added posts !
FA4UA do remember me - when you hear of new offerings for long haul Coach on the 744 PLEASE add a post ..... i'll be watching with renewed vigour

Cheers
 
NWAFA
Posts: 1843
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 10:30 pm

RE: UA Sevice Levels - Why So Average?

Wed Feb 04, 2004 12:19 am

Lahaina-

Of course the airlines you mention get GOVERNMENT KICK-BACKS with money. Unlike ALL US carriers- we dont get the help from our government!
 
nickofatlanta
Posts: 1280
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 1:06 am

RE: UA Sevice Levels - Why So Average?

Wed Feb 04, 2004 2:22 am

NWAFA -
That is not entirely true. Qantas does receive any government aid. Also, more than a few US carriers received gov't kickbacks in the last couple of years - whether it be in the form of a loan guarantee or other kickbacks. Also, does the US government still have the rule whereby government employees must fly US carriers if they can. That's a government kickback as well!
 
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Aaron747
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RE: UA Sevice Levels - Why So Average?

Wed Feb 04, 2004 2:36 am

Kickbacks or not, I don't care. I'm still taking a Cathay or ANA instead of United because the experience will be more worth my money.
 
TonyBurr
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Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2001 1:00 pm

RE: UA Sevice Levels - Why So Average?

Wed Feb 04, 2004 3:14 am

I am sorry but the using of 9/11 just goes on for so long! That and Chapter 11 has nothing to do with service. I fly UA in F about three or four times a year SFO-SYD and the service nor the food are certainly not F quality. Why would you say that service and food quality will return after Chapter 11? What is the basis of that?

I have had very nice flights, don't get me wrong, and the F Suite is very nice ( althohgh the screens are patehtically small). FA have been nice, but certainly nothing spectacular. Luckily I generally go beyond SYD to SIN on SQ and THAT is service!

9/11, Chapter 11 have nothing to do with service!!!!
 
Guest

RE: UA Sevice Levels - Why So Average?

Wed Feb 04, 2004 3:20 am

I recently traveled JFK-LAX for OW$79 on UA. This is expensive -- I had to save up my allowance for a whole summer just to pay for it! The free food, free drinks, free newspaper/magazines and free entertainment wasn't good enough! The widebody aircraft, built in 1991, was older than me so therefore it's old, smelly and ratty! And so were the FA -- they were no Britney Spears!!! Why couldn't Singapore Airlines, an airline I've neve have and probably never will fly, operate this route-sell tickets on the domestic portion? After all, they're the bestest! I love you SQ!!!

 Innocent  Innocent  Innocent  Innocent  Innocent  Innocent  Innocent

[Edited 2004-02-03 19:24:36]
 
Carfield
Posts: 2199
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:49 pm

UA

Wed Feb 04, 2004 3:23 am

Well United is not really known for its "inflight" service. I disagree with the statement that airline food always such. It usually applies to the airlines in the USA only, but I actually think UA is not too bad in the food department... first class is pretty good with creative menus and food. The fruit bowl is always nice.

For the SYD market, only QF and UA are flying nonstop to SYD and only a few airlines like TN or FJ doing the one stop service to SYD. Therefore you don't have too many options, unlike the Asian markets... you literally have many choices... therefore UA flights are always full to SYD, despite of its average cabin service. QF has twice daily flights into SYD, and then nonstop to MEL and AKL...

PTVs at United's Boeing 747-400s are unlikely to happen anytime soon. Maybe after the Ch 11 bankrupcy.

Carfield
 
Bicoastal
Posts: 2446
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 1999 5:56 am

RE: UA Service Levels - Why So Average?

Wed Feb 04, 2004 3:31 am

Gee, I guess I'm from the school that says FAs are there for safety and looks are irrelevant.

I've flown to China, Japan and Hong Kong on United a few times over the years....sometimes in economy. I've been very happy with the service and the food. It has also been my experience that transpacific and transatlantic UA flights have the most senior and most professional flight attendants. They're usually the best. I'm not in to PTVs, but UA has them on 777s. The 747s might be retrofitted someday with them, but I'd rather see United spend money on other things right now. United has Channel 9, free headphones and movies on domestic flights. Many airlines don't. An aircraft can be old but still in great flying shape. But, if United's 767 didn't meet your expectation for cleanliness, please notify them via email. That kind of feedback is important.

United's transpacific business class product is excellent. I've flown Singapore, ANA and Cathay. The difference there is that the Asian carrier's FAs seem subservient and are hired for their looks. Sorry, but I'd rather live in a society and fly an airline that treats women as equals and with respect and where looks are secondary to ability to do the job.
 
Benjamin
Posts: 422
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2003 4:08 am

RE: UA Sevice Levels - Why So Average?

Wed Feb 04, 2004 3:34 am

9/11, Chapter 11 have nothing to do with service!!!!

Uh, that's about as ignorant a statement as one can say. OF COURSE 9/11 and Chapter 11 effect service. If an airline is in financial trouble (like they are after 9/11 and like thay are if they're in Chapter 11), then the service level will decline.
 
TonyBurr
Posts: 1108
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2001 1:00 pm

RE: UA Sevice Levels - Why So Average?

Wed Feb 04, 2004 4:45 am

Benjamin, the service refers to the attitude of the crew. I do not see what 9/11 and Chapter 11 have to do with employees attitudes. If my company is having a bad time financially we cannot then give less service to our customers. As a matter of fact in the business world if you are doing badly due to a Chap 11 you go out of your way to be service friendly to gain back customers.

So how can you say that 9/11 and Chapter 11 effect the attitude of service? If anything they should go the extra mile to provide better attitude/service to keep customers. How do you justify your statement from a business perspective?
 
caetravlr
Posts: 865
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 8:19 am

RE: UA Sevice Levels - Why So Average?

Wed Feb 04, 2004 5:23 am

Actually, United's cabin crews generally do seem to provide the best service they can with what they are given. The cutbacks in service due to 9/11 and other economic factors has to do with how much the airline can spend on things like that. I applaud UA's flightcrews for the service they provide. The things that were being complained about in this thread are things that are beyond an F/As control, and yes, they do have to do with Chapter 11 and 9/11 and a recessionary economy, and a million other economic factors.
 
col
Posts: 1707
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 2:11 am

RE: UA Sevice Levels - Why So Average?

Wed Feb 04, 2004 5:51 am

I have found that UA service has improved greatly recently. I must agree however that their product is tired, especially the 744 in economy (same as NW). The 777 with it's 2-5-2 I avoid. The US carriers cannot compare their in flight product to the Asian carriers as their is a mentality difference, NOT "subservient and are hired for their looks" as our honoured friend bicoastal states. Asians are very proud people and want to leave you feeling happy and with good experience from their airline. I use SQ over the Pacific, up to date product, better food and good service. Helps when you are making money I guess.
 
ual777contrail
Posts: 2914
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2002 11:33 am

RE: UA Sevice Levels - Why So Average?

Wed Feb 04, 2004 6:03 am

United cabin crews do just as good a job as any other crew if not better. I have flown countless times across the Atlantic and Pacific and have NEVER had a bad flight. TONYBURR Is the kind of guy who say he flies UAL in FIRST 4 or 5 times a year and is a premier executive but HATES the carrier, he still hasn't learned, you have your choice of carriers, doesn't AA have a route structure like UAL? NO WAY, no airline does, that is probably why you fly us or maybe because your company pays for the ticket? Hope you don't represent your company the same way you bash ours.

so in closing, take CX and the others if they are sooooo wonderful, UAL will fill their planes, someone will take the seat you wont fly in because of lack of professionalism or food or plain and simple you want an a Asian carrier, and for those of you who do support US carriers, AND DONT WHINE ABOUT IT, thank you.


UAL 777 CONTRAIL
 
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Aaron747
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RE: UA Sevice Levels - Why So Average?

Wed Feb 04, 2004 9:50 am

I fully support US carriers as I travel plenty domestically, but when I'm going to be spending the kind of money transpacific travel entails, I'm going to open up to choices that make me feel I'm getting what I've paid my hard-earned money for.

And I'm sorry sir but I disagree strongly that United cabin crews provide the same level of service as those I've had on Cathay or JAL. Unless you've flown both, please reserve comment.


 
ual777contrail
Posts: 2914
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2002 11:33 am

RE: UA Sevice Levels - Why So Average?

Wed Feb 04, 2004 7:52 pm

Aaron747,
You are basing you transpacific travel on those two carriers, I haven't flown JAL but have a couple others, so reserve your comments if you haven't flown .
Korean air,Qantas, or SQ or AA, or CO, Thanks

I will argue this all day, UAL crews are personable and that is MY opinion, you don't have to agree, and frankly I don't care if you do.

I will be on a ORD-LHR flight today, I know I will get wonderful service, and the 777 will be comfy like it always is.

UAL 777 CONTRAIL
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 16567
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RE: UA Sevice Levels - Why So Average?

Thu Feb 05, 2004 1:28 am

I wouldn't fly KE or SQ, ever.
 
ual777contrail
Posts: 2914
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2002 11:33 am

RE: UA Sevice Levels - Why So Average?

Thu Feb 05, 2004 1:33 am

Aaron747,
That is your opinion, I would fly UAL anywhere!!!


UAL 777 CONTRAIL
 
[email protected]
Posts: 16616
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:29 pm

RE: UA Sevice Levels - Why So Average?

Thu Feb 05, 2004 1:37 am

"even the salmon in Economy wasn't all that terrible!"

I love your choice of words: "wasn't all that terrible." Does this imply it was tolerably terrible?  Wink/being sarcastic Does this imply it was terrible, but not as terrible as others? Certainly brilliant.  Laugh out loud
 
HNLFlyBoy
Posts: 318
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2004 12:01 pm

RE: UA Sevice Levels - Why So Average?

Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:23 am

TonyBurr,

with SQ part of Star Alliance, why don't you just take them all the way to SIN? You would still get the miles and have nothing to complain about in the service department.
 
Guest

RE: UA Sevice Levels - Why So Average?

Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:47 am

One thing I've learned about a.net is that even if USA-Flag Airline X provided a superb product & service while EU-flag Airline Y provided a mediocore/poor prouduct & service, users would still praise airline Y and bash airline X. I've also realized that while many Americans would love the "exoticness" of flying on a foreign airline, many non-Americans perfer to support their country's flag airline.

Currently, one can buy a ticket for JFK-LAX for $79 ***and*** earn valuable FF miles ***and*** earn a ticket anywhere in the world that airline they're traveling on flies after four segments -- in other words, for $316, one gets to travel in the air for 24-hours -- that's a WHOLE DAY and gets at least 12,000 FF miles (likely more with various bonuses) and gets a ticket anywhere in the world their choosen airline flies. And guess what? People still bitch because Euro Airlines flies between AMS-LHR -- that's a short flight -- for $109 and provides superb service. Give me a break!

It was just a few months ago when one person claimed the food in Y on a KLM flight ex-DTW was "superb" to NW's -- despite the fact that it was the same food.

So here's a suggestion: if you really think American airlines are poor, go fly the subsidized ones (and often overpriced, unless you're originating in the USA) that offer crap FF programs and medicore service (that you read on a.net is "suberb.")
 
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kurt
Posts: 429
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2001 10:04 am

RE: UA Sevice Levels - Why So Average?

Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:41 am

If one flies UA with any frequency, miles are available for an upgrade or a free ticket in business class. You'd be a fool to fly in economy for such a long flight.

If one flies UA regularly then upgrade certificates are available so that upgrade costs nothing in miles. Australia is one of the best places to use them, in fact!

Mileage Plus is near the top among frequent-flyer programs. That is a huge part of United's appeal.
 
Carfield
Posts: 2199
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:49 pm

Have Been

Thu Feb 05, 2004 6:32 am

Well, I guess I flew UA on a number of transpacific flights in F, C, and Y. There is no way that UA is comparable even to the second-tier Asian airlines, such as CI, KE, and OZ, even in terms of premium service. Sure CI, KE and OZ don't have first suites and the nice C+ seats on UA, but other aspects of their service, such as ground service, lounge, meals and beverages all surpass UA. I think United's F and J meal services are behind industry standard... AA, CO, and NW do a better job... not to mention top tier Asian airlines, like CX or SQ. The first suites are okay, but they are so badly maintained, but UA needs to do a better job in upkeeping them. About UA Y, it is an average product... nothing more and nothing less. About food, UA has improved Y offerings... but I guess Asian airlines are just slightly better because of culture. My theory is that UA is still doing well in the transpacific airlines because of the Mileage plus -- generous and also upgrades... without MP, UA will not be a big winner in the transpac markets.

Sure some of the United's F/As are really nice. I remembered a really good AA), Japan">NRT to LAX flight, and this particular F/A was really personable. But even within the US domestic carriers, I think Alaska, Frontier, and Jetblue's F/As are more personable and friendly. UA is still a "hit or miss"... AA slightly better than UA...

About Asian carriers' F/As, I think we need to stop that stereotypes that Asian women are extremely submissive or "slaves"... But what is different with Asian carriers is that they think treating customers well is part of the their job... not only for safety... making you feel welcomed is part of their job and Asian carrers' F/As actually are more respected in one manner, than F/As in North America. I feel that most Asian F/As are proud of their jobs, but Americans don't appreciate F/As that much, and US F/As don't feel as proud because they are underpaid and work in harsher conditions. But in Asia, if you tell a person that you are a F/A, people will not look down upon you as a waitress, but a glamorous semi-professional. People will think it is a wonderful thing if you are a F/A.

I guess UA and most US carriers simply have a different focus, but I think UA is actually pretty average even within the realm of US airlines. I think AA scores better in terms of comfort, entertainment, and food in Y.

But just to let you know, UA is actually the favorite US airline for Japanese travelers, based on a survey conducted by these Japanese airlines magazine.
I guess UA's Japanese F/As are really nice... but you know what I miss the most... the Singapore and Thai's F/As hired by United... they offer the best service on all UA's networks... can you imagine them unwrapping the headset for you? not just throwing them at you... unfortunately, they are all fired after 911...

Just my two cents!

Carfield
 
Bicoastal
Posts: 2446
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 1999 5:56 am

RE: UA Sevice Levels - Why So Average?

Thu Feb 05, 2004 6:44 am

How many Asian carriers allow their FAs to work until retirement age in their 60s or longer? My point is, I haven't seen any that I can recall on my Singapore Airlines, ANA or Cathay flights. Nor have I seen older flight attendents from Asian carriers in the many terminals I've been through. I could be wrong. My point, though, is if they respected the women...and men....they'd let them work as long as they can do the job and as long as they want the job.

I don't care how nice they may treat me. I'm extremely uncomfortable supporting an airline that treats their employees like that.

 
Carfield
Posts: 2199
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:49 pm

For Your Information

Thu Feb 05, 2004 1:39 pm

well, for your information, CX F/As both male and female can work till the age of 55... I think that is a fair age, especially they are chiefly for your safety. I don't think it is quite right to have a F/A over 60... not because of service wise, but how well can they handle an emergency situation?
Also after their flying careers at CX, they are often offered ground positions, such as customer service and various positions.
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 16567
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

RE: UA Sevice Levels - Why So Average?

Thu Feb 05, 2004 1:43 pm

CX is incredible, what else is there to say?
 
Guest

RE: UA Sevice Levels - Why So Average?

Thu Feb 05, 2004 1:45 pm

I don't think it is quite right to have a F/A over 60... not because of service wise, but how well can they handle an emergency situation?

That's a garbage argument -- there's pleny of people in their 60s who can handle an emergency situation better then people in their 20s, 30s and 40s.
 
Carfield
Posts: 2199
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:49 pm

RE: UA Sevice Levels - Why So Average?

Thu Feb 05, 2004 1:54 pm

There is no point to argue... of course, I am sure some F/As at the age of 60s can handle an emergency situation well, but will they be in the majority or minority side? I think 55 as an age of retirement is not too unreasonable. But I think if a F/A is into her 70, I don't think it is right for them to be in active duties. 65 is about the average retirement age in the USA... so I don't think a F/A should be allowed to work till he or she dies... If you think it is okay, that is fine, but don't accuse Asian airlines overworking their airline employee... I think the US airlines are overworking their F/As much these days, such as going minimal, more segments to work and less overnight stays...

In general, culture is what make Asian or even European F/As a bit more customer-focused... it has nothing to do with Asian airlines being a worst employee... Safety is a major part of F/As' jobs, but customer service is also the other major part. That is why Asian airlines are so incredible.

Carfield

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