Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
usnseallt82
Topic Author
Posts: 4727
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 4:49 pm

Recent Cancellations Prevented Attacks!

Fri Feb 06, 2004 3:16 am

In an article by CNN, Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge said that the recent cancellations of flights, mainly trans-Atlantic flights, were because of intelligence that is now known to have been accurate. These flight cancellations were very likely to have prevented several attack plans.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/02/05/security.aviation.reut/index.html

So, while it may have been a pain for us all, there usually is a good reason behind the confusion.  Big thumbs up

What do you think?
 
martinairyyz
Posts: 1188
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2003 6:42 am

RE: Recent Cancellations Prevented Attacks!

Fri Feb 06, 2004 3:20 am

I still think this is all a bunch of balogny but that's just my opinion.....

Cheers!
 
potomac
Posts: 692
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 5:06 am

RE: Recent Cancellations Prevented Attacks!

Fri Feb 06, 2004 3:22 am

obviously a handful of flight cancellations is well worth it over a terrorist attack. but the problem is that without knowing for certain that an attack was thwarted, the "success" of these cancellations will be viewed with skepticism, and many will still deem this be another case of gov't overreaction.

if a flight is cancelled because of the potential of something bad happening - whether it be mechanical, weather-related, or in response to a terrorist threat, i'm in favor of airing on the side of caution.
 
trnswrld
Posts: 1420
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 2:19 am

RE: Recent Cancellations Prevented Attacks!

Fri Feb 06, 2004 3:23 am

I guess we will never know unless it actually gets proven that there was an attack plan. The way I look at it, better safe than sorry.
 
usnseallt82
Topic Author
Posts: 4727
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 4:49 pm

RE: Recent Cancellations Prevented Attacks!

Fri Feb 06, 2004 3:41 am

I agree on all points made. The problem with this type of scenario is that you can never truly know whether or not you thwarted an act of terrorism, unless you catch the guy with a bomb in his show and the fuse sizzling away! Unfortunately for lawmakers, this is what they have to deal with when making these decisions.

But, as I'm sure we all agree on, if these cancellations and others in the future DO in fact keep any type of aggressive act from occurring, then I will gladly eat up any personal delays to my own itinerary. I just hope that this is really the case and not, like you said, another governmental overcalculation.

Cheers!  Big thumbs up
 
Danny
Posts: 3753
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2002 3:44 am

RE: Recent Cancellations Prevented Attacks!

Fri Feb 06, 2004 4:20 am

"Better safe than sorry"

That is the worst approach Americans have. You allow homeland security to steal your freedom because "better safe than sorry". If they had specific information about possible attacks why didn't they arrest the guys that were supposed to be terrorists? They have passengers names so they could do it. The truth is they have no clue so if there is any information they'd rather cancel a dozen of flights to be better safe that sorry.
But cancellation of flight does NOT solve a problem. Even if terrorist tried to get on one of these flights, they will try again and again. Are we going to end up with canceling all flights?
If they know who is a member Al Qaida they should eliminate them. Simple as that. Simply get rid of this trash.
Just my $0.02  Innocent
 
FFlyer
Posts: 552
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2001 6:46 am

RE: Recent Cancellations Prevented Attacks!

Fri Feb 06, 2004 4:20 am

Fear Factor. To help W. to win the elections...
 
NIKV69
Posts: 14996
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: Recent Cancellations Prevented Attacks!

Fri Feb 06, 2004 4:28 am

I am Bush supporter and I think this was all nonsense, if we knew that these planes were specifically going to be used in attacks why not put armed marshals on board and catch them? I mean give me a break, this better safe than sorry attitude is bad, we have to fight these people not run from them. I think Ridge is saying this just to justify screwing up the plans of alot of people. I thought the reason behind intelligence is to fight the enenmy. Not run scared. Flight cancellations is not the answer. When we do this they win, because we are changing our way of lives which is what they want. Let's get some better intelligence and stop these animals at the gate, shove a gun in their face, find out who is behind all of this crap and then execute them. No trial, no nothing. Instead we just cancel everything and say "better safe than sorry!" Sounds like a Leave it to Beaver episode, I am embarrassed to be an American! Stop this insanity! Screen the baggage, screen the pax, arm our pilots!!!
 
potomac
Posts: 692
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 5:06 am

RE: Recent Cancellations Prevented Attacks!

Fri Feb 06, 2004 4:29 am

i think it's short-sighted to make assumptions over what intelligence the govt has and does not have re: potential terror strikes against airline flights. first of all, we have no idea exactly what they were working off of - flight numbers, routes, times, names - who knows. either way, chances are they will not detail it publicly. its not them who doesn't really have a clue, it's us.

and in terms of arresting the suspected terrorists, they may not have even known who to go after. that's also assuming that the profile of a suspected terrorist is going to stand-out on a manifest. i think al qaeda is smart enough to know to be more discrete next time around.

and if a flight cancellation occurs each time al qaeda has something planned, it very likely could dissuade them from that type of tactic. that's a success as far as i'm concerned.
 
carduelis
Posts: 1388
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2001 8:24 pm

RE: Recent Cancellations Prevented Attacks!

Fri Feb 06, 2004 4:30 am

CNN News:-

Tom Ridge said on Wednesday recent flight cancellations have likely thwarted a terror attack

Ridge is also quoted as saying:-

"My gut tells me we probably did, but proving an unknown is pretty difficult to do," he said

Your comment:-

because of intelligence that is now known to have been accurate

bears no relationship with the CNN report!



 
potomac
Posts: 692
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 5:06 am

RE: Recent Cancellations Prevented Attacks!

Fri Feb 06, 2004 4:42 am

it doesn't seem very preventative to just have air marshalls on a targeted flight, waiting to catch the bad guys in the act. you assume that 1) it will be successful, with no harm done to any passengers or the plane, and 2) that a targeted flight is going to be hijacked - what if the threat has to do with an explosive or release of some chem/bio weapon?

again, a lot of assumptions being made about what we think we know, what we think the govt knows, and how much they know that they choose to make public.
 
theflcowboy
Posts: 357
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 3:44 am

RE: Recent Cancellations Prevented Attacks!

Fri Feb 06, 2004 4:54 am

I think the only thing Tom Ridge's gut is saying is weight watchers.

If you think about it, the terrorists have already won. All they have to do now, is start talking about crashing another plane. They dont have to actually draw the plans, just say they want to, which flight and what day. Look what happens. There was probably no reason to cancel those flights other than these jerks wanted to play a game.

I am all for better safe than sorry and I'm glad nothing happened, but the won on 9/11, and they won every day after that when a flight was cancelled due to "security concerns".

MD
 
ltbewr
Posts: 16141
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Recent Cancellations Prevented Attacks!

Fri Feb 06, 2004 5:06 am

I have no problem with the decisions recently to not allow flights due to beliefs that they are targets of terror or terror use. Since 9-11, there is a different attitude by law enforcement and intellegence toward potential terrorism using passanger aircraft. We have a better idea of what to look for and faster interptition of information. Arrested terrorist have talked all over the world about proposed plans and ideas. This past Sunday was not only the US NFL Super Bowl, but also during the 'Hajj', a time of pilmigrige to Mecca for those of the Islamac faith. Trying to do a terrorist act around the Super Bowl time would get a lot of attention and hurt our economy. The Hajj would offer a great cover and meeting place for many Islamic terrorists/ perverts to meet and plan since non-believers are excluded, there are quite literally millions in the area at the time so impossible for intellegence to cover. Both France and UK have huge citizen and non-citizen populations of Islamic believers and well proven to have significant numbers of supporters of anti-western terror. Maybe some of the flights were cancelled because they wern't meeting the current specifications of screening, couldn't be sure of certain passangers and so on.
 
NIKV69
Posts: 14996
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: Recent Cancellations Prevented Attacks!

Fri Feb 06, 2004 5:06 am

Potomac,

Why do we get searched now before we get on a plane? Why does my luggage get opened and searched before I board? Why does the other luggage get screened. I mean come on, if we can't detect bio weapons or any thing that can cause a disaster before a flight then we have a major problem. All this equipment is there to find this stuff. Yet we cancel the flights. If we intercept intelligence we are fools to let them know we have it, because know not only can't we find who is boarding these flights and trying to do this but Al-Qaida knows we intercepted it and is just going to find another way for its operatives to function and communicate without us knowing, and we won't know crap! We are failing miserbly here, just canceling flights in the long run is very bad. We have to ID these people and stop them. Having Air Marshals IS preventative. We need them.
 
Fly2HMO
Posts: 7184
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:14 pm

RE: Recent Cancellations Prevented Attacks!

Fri Feb 06, 2004 5:15 am

the "better safe than sorry" philosophy suks.
 
anstar
Posts: 3445
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:49 am

RE: Recent Cancellations Prevented Attacks!

Fri Feb 06, 2004 5:22 am

Better safe than sorry sux?

I don't think so...

Just imagine the response if we had another 9/11 and it was discovered the government knew that these planes were targets? All hell would break loose...

Maybe Mr Bush could say... I listened to the kids on A.net and they told me they thought safe and sorry sux...

please....

If they have the intelligence, be thankful they are acting on it.

ANstar
 
potomac
Posts: 692
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 5:06 am

RE: Recent Cancellations Prevented Attacks!

Fri Feb 06, 2004 5:23 am

NIKV69 - i was responding to the earlier point about just using the air marshalls to catch the terrorists in the act as being a better alternative to cancelling the flight. i was not speaking to the notion of air marshalls in general being preventative.

to the contrary, i think that's an effective deterrent. however, i believe that as long as terrorists want to strike against airliners, they will look for any gap in security to exploit. the truth is that right now, the layers we have in place are not enough to ensure 100% prevention. they are in combination, however, a very formidable deterrent. but on their own, each layer is not enough.

for instance, you cant guarantee that an air marshall will definitely thwart a highjacking, and he sure as heck wont make a difference if explosives or chemical weapons are used. passenger screening is effective, but only to the point where al qaeda start trying to look less and less like we expect them to - either by physical appearance, nationality, or background. security screening does not effectively detect bio/chem weapons, at least not in all airports. and lets not forget about cargo screening either.

given all that, if there is some specific threat - and again, none of us here know for sure what the intelligence indicated - where there is any doubt that one or all of these layers of security may not be enough to prevent the attack from taking place, then it makes a lot of sense to me to cancel a flight.
 
petazulu
Posts: 683
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2003 3:32 am

RE: Recent Cancellations Prevented Attacks!

Fri Feb 06, 2004 5:27 am

Potomac- Your points are dead on.
NIKV69- You are naive to think that machines will prevent everything. I don't care what the TSA says- If they declare a plane to be "safe" and someone argues/ claims to the contrary- that plane had better get spitshined by cops before departing.
 
NIKV69
Posts: 14996
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: Recent Cancellations Prevented Attacks!

Fri Feb 06, 2004 5:37 am

Naive? How is that? The security in place is more than enough to screen any bag that contains anything big enough to take down a commercial airliner, why do you think they hijacked those four flights on 9-11? That is their only way to cause a major disaster. Which they accomplished with of all things, box cutters. Why? Because our pilots had nothing to defend themselves. This is why air marshals are needed as well as our pilots getting side arms, it is the only way. Canceling flights is not the answer. Better safe than sorry is not the answer. Your right in saying they are harder to detect because of appearance, but if they are screened before they get on they can do nothing, unless they decide to try to hijack the plane and use a bomb threat, at which point they will be dealt with. Fear is not the answer.
 
User avatar
Cadmus
Posts: 173
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2004 6:47 am

RE: Recent Cancellations Prevented Attacks!

Fri Feb 06, 2004 5:43 am

I don't undestand why they cancelled the flights so early. Surely if they'd left it until just before the flight was ready to board they could have then thoroughly searched everyone who was there, plus their luggage and the plane itself. They might then have caught someone, or found something that earlier checks had missed, and that would have given the authorities something concrete to work from.
 
anstar
Posts: 3445
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:49 am

RE: Recent Cancellations Prevented Attacks!

Fri Feb 06, 2004 5:57 am

NIKV69, how would you detect a vile of anthrax or smallpox?

Last I knew these weren't picked up in xray machines or metal detectors.

Lets leave the decisions with people who have a bit more info than us mere mortals
 
trident2e
Posts: 1286
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2003 3:38 am

RE: Recent Cancellations Prevented Attacks!

Fri Feb 06, 2004 6:01 am

This just doesn't make sense. If the intelligence is good enough to know that someone on the passenger list is a terrorist suspect, why don't the authorities just detain them before the flight departs? Conspiracy theorists would argue that these cancellations are just a ploy by the US and British governments to convince people that invading Iraq was the right thing to do.
 
anstar
Posts: 3445
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:49 am

RE: Recent Cancellations Prevented Attacks!

Fri Feb 06, 2004 6:03 am

Well, I won't say too much more, believe what you want, but I would rather have my flight cancelled, than to be on a flight destined for the side of a building/disease infection whatever....

ANstar
 
martinairyyz
Posts: 1188
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2003 6:42 am

RE: Recent Cancellations Prevented Attacks!

Fri Feb 06, 2004 6:04 am

Better safe than sorry sux?

Hell Yes!!!


If thats the approach everone had we'd be dead of fear by now.......
 
NIKV69
Posts: 14996
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: Recent Cancellations Prevented Attacks!

Fri Feb 06, 2004 6:06 am

Ok, how do you get the anthrax out of the vile? Sitting in a closed suitcase in the belly of the plane it does nothing. It needs human interaction to be useful. It has to be brought on the plane by a human. With the security measures in place this is highly unlikely. For God's sake the last guy tried to light his shoe! This tell's us that their only way to bring down a jet or steer it towards a target is the same way as 9-11. If terrorists want to launch a bio attack they are not going to use a commercial plane. A subway would be a better target. Let's stop this insanity. Let's not live in fear. If they had such specific intelligence it would have been acted on, they had nothing but spectulation, that is it. They cancelled the flights because they could do nothing else. It's sad. The terrorists are beginning to win, we are paranoid.
 
potomac
Posts: 692
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 5:06 am

RE: Recent Cancellations Prevented Attacks!

Fri Feb 06, 2004 6:06 am

again, a huge assumption is being made here that the threat is based on one or more of the passengers being a terrorist. what about explosives in cargo, chem/bio weapons being put onboard (with or without a terrorist on the plane), or some other scenario that isn't known?
 
anstar
Posts: 3445
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:49 am

RE: Recent Cancellations Prevented Attacks!

Fri Feb 06, 2004 6:10 am

NIKV69, when did I say the anthrax etc was in the belly?

Thats hardly effectice use???
We're paranoid? yes paranoid the governement is out to cancel flights for their political agenda...

I have no idea about biological weapons, but im sure a few drops of some potent stuff could easily be placed ina water bottle/cigarette packet/trouser pocket/Eyedrop holder....

The list is endless... these guys know more than us, and I'm sure the likes of BA would of cracked the shi*ts by now if they suspected it was political propoganda....

What does the war in Iraq have to do with these cancelled flights? Nothing.

if you want to disagree,, please go ahead, I guess you'll then be telling me they invaded Iraq because they were allies with Osama... geesh


[Edited 2004-02-05 22:11:56]
 
Danny
Posts: 3753
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2002 3:44 am

RE: Recent Cancellations Prevented Attacks!

Fri Feb 06, 2004 6:13 am

Explosives in cargo are easy to detect by dogs. But you're right that while passengers are screened usually carefully, cargo is the weak point in the system. In the US only 5% of cargo is screened.
 
AAgent
Posts: 540
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2001 11:41 pm

RE: Recent Cancellations Prevented Attacks!

Fri Feb 06, 2004 6:19 am

The "better safe than sorry" philosophy may not be perfect, but it sure beats explaining to angry and grieving family members why an aircraft that had specific and credible threats against it was allowed to fly and ultimately fell prey to some new and surprising terrorist's plot. How could you possibly defend yourself against a poor decision like that? You couldn't, and that's why we must settle for the "better safe than sorry" approach at this time. Sadly, cancellations will occur, but at least we'll live to fly another day.

Respectfully,
AAgent

 
NIKV69
Posts: 14996
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: Recent Cancellations Prevented Attacks!

Fri Feb 06, 2004 6:26 am

ANstar,

When did I mention the war in Iraq? With that said don't ever put words in my mouth, I invite you to go thru every post of mine in this thread and point out where I ever mentioned the war in Iraq, you won't find it, it's not there. You are not even from here so you have no right to comment on our President's actions. Stick to the topic of the post.


The government is not canceling flights for it's gain or any propaganda. I don't believe the intelligence was as good as they say it was because if it was we would have acted on it. They may have had info on certain routes but I don't believe these flights should have been cancelled, has nothing to do with propagnada. Give me a break. If you have enough info to cancel a flight then you have enough info to stop whoever is getting on the plane with any weapons at all.
 
anstar
Posts: 3445
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:49 am

RE: Recent Cancellations Prevented Attacks!

Fri Feb 06, 2004 6:34 am

you didn't mention the war in Iraq, I used it as an example (not your post) of how some 'linked info' has been wrong.

Lets agree to disagree on this one ey...
ANstar
 
Lucky727
Posts: 559
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2003 10:27 pm

RE: Recent Cancellations Prevented Attacks!

Fri Feb 06, 2004 6:45 am

There really is no way to confirm these cancellations prevented anything - and US/British intelligence don't have the best public image right now.

Bush was able to pull off a super-agressive war based on what we now know were VERY shaky intelligence sources (a war that had NOTHING to do with terrorism or 9/11 - and, american bro's: if you believe it did, then you've still got the wool pulled over your eyes) On the other hand, this "better safe than sorry" is, as noted above, a real pussyfooted approach. Call their bluff - taxi the plane out - then hold & isolate it & everyone in it and see what you find.

(This is NOT an anti-american post - while I might have issues with certain nations' foreign policy, I still consider myself half American - so don't bother flaming me)
 
trnswrld
Posts: 1420
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 2:19 am

RE: Recent Cancellations Prevented Attacks!

Fri Feb 06, 2004 6:53 am

AAgent,
I agree 100% with what you said. When I said "better safe than sorry" in the beginning of this thread I certainly did not mean it as being a fix to the problem of possible terrorist activities, but at this point in time, with current security issues its the ONLY way to be 100% sure that history will not repeat itself. As others said I know we cannot go on forever cancelling flights, but when it comes down to it, cancelling a flight is the only way to ensure the safety of these people.

NIKV69,
"I am Bush supporter and I think this was all nonsense, if we knew that these planes were specifically going to be used in attacks why not put armed marshals on board and catch them?"

Yeah good idea, and we will make sure you are the only passenger on this aircraft. (im joking ofcourse, but I really do have to disagree with your above statement)
 
NIKV69
Posts: 14996
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: Recent Cancellations Prevented Attacks!

Fri Feb 06, 2004 7:03 am

Lucky727,

Going to war had nothing to do with intelligence, Saddam was not paying heed to the UN or anybody for that matter. He had to be taken out of power, end of story. I AGREE with you 100% in this statement.

On the other hand, this "better safe than sorry" is, as noted above, a real pussyfooted approach. Call their bluff - taxi the plane out - then hold & isolate it & everyone in it and see what you find.

Definately!!, like I said intelligence is there to be used to fight the enenmy, not to run scared.

Trnswrld,

I would get on the plane, I am not paranoid, I will not alter my life, this is what they want. If you know a said aircraft is in danger, address the danger, don't cancel the flight.
 
usnseallt82
Topic Author
Posts: 4727
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 4:49 pm

RE: Recent Cancellations Prevented Attacks!

Fri Feb 06, 2004 7:24 am

NIKV69, I agree with you completely. If I knew that one of my flights had suspected terrorists on board, I would get on in a heartbeat hoping to do something about it myself. I don't fear terror at all, which negates the very definition of the word...instead, I welcome it, if they think it's going to do a damn thing on my flight!

However, it seems as though most other nations view us Americans as 'afraid.' I have no doubt that there are a LOT of our citizens who are afraid, but that is by no means the majority. If it was, people wouldn't be flying today. I think citizens from around the world love to stereotype us all as being fat, lazy, and stupid cowards, but when confronted about this face to face, many of them deny all knowledge of such statements. Just remember who's been the leader in the world for foreign aid and assistance, as well as troop deployments and defense of struggling nations and our allies. While many of us may LIKE to, we won't turn our backs on France and Germany, because of that very word...allies. We didn't get involved in WWII because we were bored. Perhaps people should reflect a little deeper with their criticisms of the U.S., instead of letting their discontent with our currently successful reputation as a world power upset their egos.

Furthermore, the U.S. HAS seen it's share of shit from the day of our creation, also making us one of the youngest nations in the world. Just because one of us in the international scene is doing okay right now doesn't mean that everyone should be pissed off and critique that which we cannot control. We've been there for the world and now we need the world to be there for us.

By the way, I love Europe and hope to go back there again very soon. I also hope that people can understand that the stereotypes of Americans that are floating around today aren't always the truth of the matter. Some of us still care about cross-cultural lines of communication and respect those nations that surround us. We're in this world together and I'll be damned if I'm going to turn my back on any of our allies.

Now, I think I've said enough.  Big thumbs up

Good day.
 
Jacques60
Posts: 117
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2003 1:34 am

RE: Recent Cancellations Prevented Attacks!

Fri Feb 06, 2004 8:42 am

Am just like all of you : unable to say if anything was avoided by thos flights cancellations ! However a couple of things puzzle me.
The 09/11 disaster was created by 4 planes from US carriers, departing from the US main land. The other attempt in Dec01 involved another US carrier, this time from CDG. Some potential terrorists were arrested while trying to enter by car into the US from Canada.
On the other hand , so far only British and French carriers from Europe have been advised to cancel some of their flights, mostly to IAD and LAX. Meanwhile dozens of US planes/carriers operated from Europe to the US without cancellation requests.
I think that if I was having bad intentions I would pick up any US carrier flight !
And please don't give me the now usual words mentioning the French-US so called "controversy" !
Rgds
 
AAgent
Posts: 540
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2001 11:41 pm

RE: Recent Cancellations Prevented Attacks!

Fri Feb 06, 2004 8:48 am

It would seem that canceling a flight has been misconstrued as being an act of cowardice. Nothing could be further from the truth. When a cancellation occurs, it is an intelligent response to what is deemed to be a credible threat. Clearly, the authorities responsible for the safety of the travelling public would be criminally negligent if they were to act otherwise. Apparently, some would gladly travel on threatened flights, hoping to foil the evil plot with their superior intellect and physical brawn. That would make for sensational news headlines, with a cinematic box office smash certain to follow. However, like many Hollywood plots, its not very realistic. Suppose for a moment that the terrorist has devised an ingenious plan, a deadly and surprising plot that had never occurred to our Super-Passenger! Well, you'd get your sensational news headlines all right, but no blockbuster movie (unless it was like the "Titanic" eighty or ninety years later...sufficient time for all of those who directly suffered to have passed from this life.) But there would be no mention of Super-Passenger in the headlines, only a detailed account of a horrific incident that should have been prevented in the first place because there were specific and credible threats against that very flight! An endless series of official inquiries, trials and investigations would ensue regarding the failure of the security system to identify and prevent this despicable act. I can just imagine the prosecutions catch phrases addressing such a terrible lapse of judgement in regards to threats against the flight...

"When there's a threat, get off the jet!"

"If you don't know, the flight won't go!"

It would be a political nightmare! The bottom line is for us to use our brains and not rely on in-flight brawn and blind luck to protect the aircraft. Let's protect it when and where we can do it most effectively...prior to takeoff, safely parked at the terminal. Again it's not cowardice, the U.S., and indeed most of the world is ready to take on the terrorists when and where it can be done effectively. Clearly it is better to fight the fight where you can positively identify the enemy and where you have reliable intelligence regarding the arsenal with which that enemy is preparing to attack. Remember..."If your don't know, the flight won't go!"

Respectfully,
AAgent

 
Thrust
Posts: 2587
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2003 12:17 pm

RE: Recent Cancellations Prevented Attacks!

Fri Feb 06, 2004 9:42 am

It is indeed debatable about whether people expect Al Qaeda to try the same thing twice or not. I see both sides.
 
Stratofish
Posts: 1043
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2001 6:38 am

RE: Recent Cancellations Prevented Attacks!

Fri Feb 06, 2004 10:05 am

Ok, apart from my points of view, which I know you don't share, this makes me raise some questions:

- if a threat towards a flight is detected several days (or even hours to be exact) before it takes off, why is the best solution to cancel it? You can conduct a very rigid security check while the pax are checking in, can't you? It will cause delays, but that's still better than to cancel the flight, plus you get the chance to actually arrest the "terrorists" at the airport.

- if a public announcment of the cancellations is made so early, any intelligent terrorist can simply target another flight on which he or she will be rebooked on.

- and are they always targeting the same flights? There are other 744 flights into IAD, eg from asia...
 
N754PR
Posts: 2909
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 1999 10:03 pm

RE: Recent Cancellations Prevented Attacks!

Fri Feb 06, 2004 10:13 am

Its 100% crap. They are just trying to get people to rally behind Bush and his idiots. Make people thick there is a possible attack and they will allow you to spend a few billion more on getting the oil, sorry saving the poor people of Iraq.

So, it stopped attacks. OK, how many of these confirmed nutters got arrested, what are their names??
 
ben
Posts: 1369
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 1999 9:27 pm

RE: Recent Cancellations Prevented Attacks!

Fri Feb 06, 2004 8:36 pm

You can expect a steady increase of these 'credible threats' up until the election later in the year, followed by a steep decline in them.

Coincidence? I don't know... probably.

Anything to take people's minds off the economy and keep the raw fear at the front of everyone's minds. It's just a shame that these events, primarily for domestic consumption, affect us in other countries so much. After all, we're not the ones with serious airport security issues.
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15079
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Recent Cancellations Prevented Attacks!

Fri Feb 06, 2004 9:15 pm

How is cancelling the flight supposed to stop the attack. Yes it will stop the attack on THAT PARTICULAR flight, but unless they arrest the suspected terrorists, how does that help ?

What is the VERY first thing BA and AF did when those flights were cancelled ? REBOOK EVERYBODY ON THE NEXT FLIGHT OUT - this is standard service recovery. And that means everybody, not everybody EXCEPT THE TERRORISTS - because if they'd known who they were, they'd have been arrested right ? Or at least dragged off and questioned while everyone else got to fly to Washington. I'm pretty sure the terrorists don't care which day of the week they hijack the plane on.

I would agree that this is just cranking up the percieved threat to make Americans feel unsafe (nobody else does, by the way...)
 
ltbewr
Posts: 16141
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Recent Cancellations Prevented Attacks!

Fri Feb 06, 2004 9:34 pm

To add to my previous post, a consideration is that crew members or others with access to the aircraft may not have been sufficently cleared, have questionable backgrounds, or there was some possible breach of security policy when not in or preparing for flight. Remember the Egypt Air flight where the co-pilot apparently brought the plane down, or maybe sharp knives or incapaciting chemicals are snuck on by maintainence or cleaning crews. If you notice too, the primary target of the cancellations are flights to Washington, DC., that to me is still THE target of the terrorists, one where they think their plans were not finished on 9/11, and that the one that crashed in PA it is belief was to attack either the capital or White House. It's possible that some of the data used to cancel these flights may be to throw the terrorist off, and to publise the possible reasons is to let the terrorist know that we are watching them. Maybe some the flights are cancelled to stop 'back up' plans too, as info relied upon may be to distract from the real plans.
 
contrails
Posts: 1314
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2000 11:53 pm

RE: Recent Cancellations Prevented Attacks!

Fri Feb 06, 2004 10:10 pm

I think JGPH1A hit it right on the nose. I couldn't have said it better.
 
usnseallt82
Topic Author
Posts: 4727
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 4:49 pm

RE: Recent Cancellations Prevented Attacks!

Fri Feb 06, 2004 11:00 pm

The problem I have with the entire matter is that someone in Washington, probably not Bush though, thinks that by canceling a few flights, all threats will be averted. The last time I checked, the terrorists that we are working with are not stupid and will have backup plans after backup plans, etc. A simply cancellation won't do the job.

Also, who's to say that anyone is even thinking about using air travel again for terrorism? It seems pretty obvious that the world has crunched down on air security, so why prance through an airport to try something else when you could probably find a thousand other methods to carry out the deed.

So, I'm back in the air and loving every bit of it! For my fellow Americans who whine and complain about how 'unsafe' they feel, maybe they should take a guess as to where the hell that FedEx package came from with their new electric ass-warmer and how they think fresh seafood could be eaten in Montana? Aviation is still pretty useful people.  Big thumbs up

Okay, I'll stop now!

Cheers!
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15079
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Recent Cancellations Prevented Attacks!

Sat Feb 07, 2004 12:47 am

USNSealLt82 - just for "new electric ass-warmer", you're on the Respected List ! LM Warm AO  Laugh out loud
 
usnseallt82
Topic Author
Posts: 4727
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 4:49 pm

RE: Recent Cancellations Prevented Attacks!

Sat Feb 07, 2004 3:56 am

JGPH1A, I thank you for the support and return the favor!  Big thumbs up LM Warm AO too!

Cheers!
 
NIKV69
Posts: 14996
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: Recent Cancellations Prevented Attacks!

Sat Feb 07, 2004 6:32 am

N754pr,

You have got to be kidding, we are going to cancel flights to rally support for Bush?

No..

You got to let go of this war for oil thing, it's lame and pathetic..

Canceling flights is not the answer, we have to show Al-Qaida we won't do this, just like Stratofish said. Screen the pax and let them fly!!
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:05 am

RE: Recent Cancellations Prevented Attacks!

Sat Feb 07, 2004 7:03 am

"Prevented attacks" is the slogan ! Signs of attacks of hysteria in relevant quarters presumably is the reality !

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos