777ER
Head Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 10061
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:04 pm

AA Pilot Asks Passengers To Discuss Christianity

Sun Feb 08, 2004 10:46 am

American Airlines says a pilot flying from Los Angeles to New York asked non-Christians passengers to talk to Christians about their faith during the flight. Airline spokesman Tim Wagner says the pilot had just made flight announcements and asked that the Christians on board raise their hands. The pilot then suggested the other passengers to use the free time to talk to the Christians. AA is invesagating the incident. Mr Wagner said that the announcement should not have happened.

http://www.news24houston.com/content/top_stories/default.asp?ArID=23561

Head Forum Moderator
[email protected]
Flown: 1900D,S340,Q300,AT72-5/6,DC3,CR2/7,E145,E70/75/90,A319/20/21,A332/3,A359,A380,F100,B717,B733/4/8/9,B742/4,B752/3,B763,B772/3, B789
With: NZ,SJ,QF,JQ,EK,VA,AA,UA,DL,FL,AC,FJ,SQ,TG,PR
 
flykal
Posts: 423
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2003 12:20 pm

RE: AA Pilot Asks Passengers To Discuss Christianity

Sun Feb 08, 2004 10:55 am

Well, what else are you going to do anyhow if there's no PTV's!?  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
One doesn't discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time
 
JFernandez
Posts: 192
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2004 8:43 am

RE: AA Pilot Asks Passengers To Discuss Christianity

Sun Feb 08, 2004 10:59 am

Might want to check out the thread entitled "AA Pilot Acts Wierd On Flight"
 
User avatar
Goose
Posts: 1773
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2003 3:40 am

RE: AA Pilot Asks Passengers To Discuss Christianity

Sun Feb 08, 2004 11:05 am

He might've been into the Sauce.

AA is an acronym not only for American Airlines, but for Alchoholics Anonymous.......  Big grin

And I'm just kidding....  Big grin
"Talk to me, Goose..."
 
BCAInfoSys
Posts: 2617
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 11:09 pm

RE: AA Pilot Asks Passengers To Discuss Christianity

Sun Feb 08, 2004 11:09 am

I'd fire his ass in a second.. that is COMPLETELY inappropriate behavior. Do atheist pilots try to spread atheism? I mean seriously... I'm sick and tired of religion being forced on me by extremists. If I want religion, I'll find it. Otherwise, don't try to share your beliefs with me. Religion/spirituality is a PERSONAL matter and should stay that way, not shared with the world.
Militant Agnostic - I don't know and you don't either.
 
funflyer
Posts: 817
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 4:53 am

RE: AA Pilot Asks Passengers To Discuss Christianity

Sun Feb 08, 2004 11:11 am

Its not personal when part of what you belive is to share it with others.




Chinese Proverb:

He who knows and does not do, does not yet know




EDIT: and you just openly admitted that you were an atheist.


[Edited 2004-02-08 03:12:33]
Who cares about status?
 
ushermittwoch
Posts: 2608
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 10:18 pm

RE: AA Pilot Asks Passengers To Discuss Christianity

Sun Feb 08, 2004 11:15 am

Yeah but it's also not the pilot's job to indoctrinate the passengers with HIS beliefs.
Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
milesrich
Posts: 1508
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2003 2:46 am

RE: AA Pilot Asks Passengers To Discuss Christianity

Sun Feb 08, 2004 11:24 am

I used to live next door to a holy roller Delta Captain, but he would never do anything so crass? Imagine if the guy was Jewish, and he told all the non Jewish passengers that they should give up their belief in Christ and talk to the Jewish passengers about it. GEEZ!
 
MD11LuxuryLinr
Posts: 1311
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 8:34 am

RE: AA Pilot Asks Passengers To Discuss Christianity

Sun Feb 08, 2004 11:25 am


So wait.. I flew over the Christmas holiday season and was told "Merry Christmas" by more than a couple FAs.. I'm not religious.. Should they be fired too??

The things people bitch about these days..

 Insane
Caution wake turbulence, you are following a heavy jet.
 
BR715-A1-30
Posts: 6525
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 9:30 am

RE: AA Pilot Asks Passengers To Discuss Christianity

Sun Feb 08, 2004 11:28 am

Actually, I believe crew members are supposed to say Happy Holidays. I would never say Merry Christmas on board an aircraft (Unless the person I said it to, I knew was a christian), but if I got on the P/A and made announcements, I would always say "Thank you for flying _______, and happy holidays."
Puhdiddle
 
planemaker
Posts: 5411
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:53 pm

RE: AA Pilot Asks Passengers To Discuss Christianity

Sun Feb 08, 2004 11:29 am

I wonder if Neeleman will ask jetBlue pilots to "talk up" mormonism, or Emirates Islam? Heck, since it is election time just around the corner, why don't republican or democrat F/A's start making speeches over the P/A? That is just wonderful!

Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: AA Pilot Asks Passengers To Discuss Christianity

Sun Feb 08, 2004 11:46 am

I would find any such action by a pilot extremely offensive, and I would file a very, very serious complaint with any AA official that would listen.

N
 
User avatar
Coronado990
Posts: 1437
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 2:12 am

RE: AA Pilot Asks Passengers To Discuss Christianity

Sun Feb 08, 2004 11:50 am

I'd be thrilled to know my pilot was a Christian and not an atheist flying my plane up there. But common sense would dictate that you never preach to (or even entertain) a captive audience unless you want a lot of criticism.

We're up.
 
jahckass
Posts: 142
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2001 4:52 pm

RE: AA Pilot Asks Passengers To Discuss Christiani

Sun Feb 08, 2004 1:12 pm

it is evident that people only agree with freedom of speech when the spoken is in agreement.

this was not an instance of "forcing" religion on anyone, it was merely a suggestion. it may have been against aa's policy but that is for them to decide.
 
longhaulheavy
Posts: 376
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 1:52 am

RE: AA Pilot Asks Passengers To Discuss Christianity

Sun Feb 08, 2004 1:15 pm

Coronado990: I'd be thrilled to know my pilot was a Christian and not an atheist flying my plane up there.

Hmmm...interesting. I guess I'd never though about that before, but I'd have to agree, although I'd expand it to all those who believe in God. (except, perhaps, for Gamil el-Batouty).

But likewise, his personal beliefs don't belong on the PA.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: AA Pilot Asks Passengers To Discuss Christianity

Sun Feb 08, 2004 1:31 pm

Freedom of speech belongs in your private life.

When you're in the cockpit of an aircraft, you're a representative of the company, not a representative of your views to the Company's customers.

Imagine how uncomfortable all the non-Christians on board must have felt?

I think he should be fired.

N

[Edited 2004-02-08 05:42:16]
 
jjeff
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2003 11:52 am

RE: AA Pilot Asks Passengers To Discuss Christianity

Sun Feb 08, 2004 1:32 pm


Funflyer: atheism isn't a religion.

MD11: Christmas is really more of a secular holiday than a religious one (for most Americans anyway). Happy holidays is preferable though.

Jahckass: freedom of speech arguments fly out the window when your audience has no choice as to whether or not to listen.

 
PIA777
Posts: 1841
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2003 9:39 am

RE: AA Pilot Asks Passengers To Discuss Christianity

Sun Feb 08, 2004 1:36 pm

What an idiot!!!!!! He should be fired.

PIA777
GO CUBS!!
 
thvgjp
Posts: 147
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 8:17 am

RE: AA Pilot Asks Passengers To Discuss Christianity

Sun Feb 08, 2004 1:43 pm

To all the "athiests" out there, first off I dont believe there is one true athiest out there. You all state you hate Christianity being forced down your throats by holy rollers. By your repulsion to Christianity it seems there might be something true about it. If there were no God why all the revulsion and offence taken. Valentines day is near I dont get annoyed about people taliking about Cupid, nor the Easter Bunny at easter time or Santa Clause at xmas. Heaven knows we hear plenty of ole Saint Nick at xmas time, why dont I get upset because I rationally know they dont exist. If someone wants to worship anyone of them so what if they try to "convert"me so what Im not buying thank you. I think it can reasonably stated that you athiests out teher really should be called humanists, as it seems to me deep down you really belive in a God but dont want to acknowlege it, or be held acountable for your actions to a higher being. Remember Lenin wanted the last Christian paraded in front of him in RED Square and he is still waiting, so much for atheism. Professionally the cpt screwed up , but who really listens to the pa announcements anyway, we can barely pay attention to the safety breifings before the flight.

Glen
 
JUANR
Posts: 837
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2000 12:37 am

RE: AA Pilot Asks Passengers To Discuss Christianity

Sun Feb 08, 2004 1:46 pm

And do you still believe that you live in the land of the freedom???

Juan
SKBO
Bogotá: 2600 Metros Más Cerca De Las Estrellas; Vamos por los XVII Juegos Nacionales!!!!!!!!!
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: AA Pilot Asks Passengers To Discuss Christianity

Sun Feb 08, 2004 1:53 pm

Freedom extends only as far as you personally are willing to extend it.

When you inflict a loss of freedom on someone else, in the name of your own rights, suddenly you're no better than a dictator yourself.


When my friends discuss their religion, it doesn't bother me. When the trusted face of a company I'm doing business with publically humiliates the non-Christians, then I take a bit of umbrage.

N
 
ETStar
Posts: 1850
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2004 6:25 am

RE: AA Pilot Asks Passengers To Discuss Christiani

Sun Feb 08, 2004 1:58 pm

I certainly hope he gets fired... this is insulting to those who practice other religions (or don't for whatever reason). MD11LuxuryLinr, Christmas is a christian holiday, and has always been. Unfortunately in North America, people who do not practice the religion also celebrate it for the gift giving etc, and have started to give it their own meaning: ie. "it is a time to spend with family, a time to remember those who do not have the luxury we have etc." What happened to remembering the real cause for celebration, whose birthday it commemorates etc? Anyways, enough with my spill, but that AA pilot should be kicked out.
 
B747forlife
Posts: 386
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2001 9:36 am

RE: AA Pilot Asks Passengers To Discuss Christianity

Sun Feb 08, 2004 2:01 pm

You know maybe its because I'm Catholic, but I don't see where the problem is here. The AA pilot suggested, that if someone wanted to, they could talk to someone Christian about Christianity. That's where it, apparently, ended. He didn't say they had to, and no one forced them to. Was it out of line, maybe, because he didn't include talking to every single other faith in the world, but it did not hurt anyone's freedom of speech and I don't see how anyone could be really be offended. He wasn't shoving Christianity down anyone's throat.

My opinion...whether he should have done it or not is another question, but I don't really see where anyone's rights were denied, etc.

-Nick
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: AA Pilot Asks Passengers To Discuss Christianity

Sun Feb 08, 2004 2:01 pm

I dunno if its unfortunate that non-Christians use the season to spend time with family or to think of others who are less fortunate.

Christians don't have the corner on love and thoughtfulness. I carefully choose several specifically non-religious charities every year that do wonderful work, with no motivation except their kindness and good spirit.

N
 
yegbey01
Posts: 1365
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 11:04 am

RE: AA Pilot Asks Passengers To Discuss Christianity

Sun Feb 08, 2004 2:03 pm

Well,

I flew Xmas eve on Air Canada and the only thing FA's said was Happy Hollidays which I thought was very appropriate.
 
atcboy73
Posts: 1084
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2001 10:09 am

RE: AA Pilot Asks Passengers To Discuss Christianity

Sun Feb 08, 2004 2:18 pm

Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs. There are appropriate times to share and then not to share.

I would of been offended if I were on that plane.

I would of asked for my money back.
 
FrequentFlier
Posts: 410
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2000 10:45 am

RE: AA Pilot Asks Passengers To Discuss Christianity

Sun Feb 08, 2004 2:25 pm

What this pilot did is highly unprofessional.

The job of a pilot is to fly the freaking plane, not to preach. And don't even try and say that this is the same thing as people saying "Merry Christmas." The two are completely different. And even without the religion aspect, the pilot was wrong in bringing up such a controversial topic. I'd be equally offended if he said "all non-republicans should talk to republicans about how that is the preferred political party."

The pilot should be reprimanded immediately.
 
aifos
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2004 9:05 am

RE: AA Pilot Asks Passengers To Discuss Christianity

Sun Feb 08, 2004 2:33 pm

Where is our country heading to?!?!??!!? What a crazy story.... This guy should be a priest in Southern Texas and NOT an airline pilot!!!!!!!!

BTW, Milesrich got it right. I think you made the prefect comment!

BEst,
Chris
AA Ex. Platinium
 
mpoellot
Posts: 64
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2004 7:32 pm

RE: AA Pilot Asks Passengers To Discuss Christiani

Sun Feb 08, 2004 2:37 pm

Religion and faith are personal matters. The conduct of that AA Capt was completely inappropriate and unprofessional.
 
jjeff
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2003 11:52 am

RE: AA Pilot Asks Passengers To Discuss Christianity

Sun Feb 08, 2004 2:45 pm


And while we're at it, let's get the facts straight about Christmas. Christians who plead for non-religious folks to 'remember the real reason for the holiday' just don't realize that it was the original Christian religion, Catholicism, that conveniently pegged the birth of its savior at just about the exact time of year as a much earlier pagan celebration. Why? So as to co-opt the holiday for the purposes of bringing everyone into Catholic fold. Did you really think that Christmas trees and other symbols that we associate with the holidays were prevalent in Bethlehem? The celebration of 'Christmas' predates the birth of Christ by a long shot.

Why is this relevant to the thread? Of course everyone is entitled to act according to their own religious beliefs but those who cross the line and push their beliefs on others are at best impolite and at worst objectionable.


[Edited 2004-02-08 06:50:07]
 
EK345
Posts: 126
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 5:12 pm

RE: AA Pilot Asks Passengers To Discuss Christianity

Sun Feb 08, 2004 3:02 pm

I think JJeff said it the best... "freedom of speech arguments fly out the window when your audience has no choice as to whether or not to listen". Well said! I think AA should fire that guy. If I were on that flight I would also be EXTREMELY offended. And by the way... my opinion would be the same if the guy said the same thing about my religion.

EK345
"and miles to go before I sleep..."
 
skytrain
Posts: 288
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 6:45 am

RE: AA Pilot Asks Passengers To Discuss Christianity

Sun Feb 08, 2004 3:42 pm

Personally, I think that the comments were highly unusual and perhaps inappropriate coming from the pilot, keeping in mind the very professional attitude and mannerisms that he is supposed to display. As far as whether he should be fired or not, I believe that as was previously mentioned, it should remain an AA decision and should be based upon company policy.

As far as saying 'Merry Christmas' goes, I don't see why anyone should be offended. By simply wishing someone a Merry Christmas you are not preaching your beliefs or forcing someone to accept or assume your religious values. They are not speaking ill of you or discrediting/putting down your religion or your beliefs. It is not being said with contempt or hostility - it is a harmless and good-natured greeting/goodbye. The person is not even being discriminatory towards one particular religion. Everyone is capable of having a Merry Christmas whether they celebrate it or not. Why should anyone become irate and thoroughly disgusted for simply being wished a happy December 25th? Personally, I believe that we are caught up in a world that is far too politically correct, especially in a country who's currency bares the slogan "In God We Trust". Happy Holidays is fine and I would accept that as pleasantly and graciously as a 'Happy Hanukkah' or any other Jewish, Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, Islamic, Sikh (etc.) holiday. Just because I am not of that faith doesn't mean that I am being oppressed, singled out or denied my rights. I am merely being wished by someone of a different faith to enjoy a certain day. If they wish to celebrate it and have chosen to also wish me a Happy ______ - where is the harm in that? If the F/A's had said "Have a Merry Christmas and the rest of you bastards go rot in hell," then I would understand your discontent and objection to the situation. More than the likely they would say "On behalf of the crew I would like to thank you for choosing (Insert Airline). We hope you enjoy your stay in (Insert City) or wherever your final destination may be. Good(night/morning/day) and have a Merry Christmas." In my honest opinion.... Not a big deal. Either choose to accept it for the innocent and amiable statement that it was, or ignore it. Regardless of the country, religion or holiday.

Just my 2 cents!

Cheers - Skytrain.
 
jpetekyxmd80
Posts: 4306
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:16 am

RE: AA Pilot Asks Passengers To Discuss Christianity

Sun Feb 08, 2004 3:43 pm

'Now we ask you to locate the Christian nearest you. In some cases, the nearest Christian may be behind you.'
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
richcandy
Posts: 715
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2001 4:49 pm

RE: AA Pilot Asks Passengers To Discuss Christianity

Sun Feb 08, 2004 5:37 pm

Hi

The Bible tells us that we should tell others about Gods love for us.

If you are a Christian you should tell non Christians about Christ, they might never hear it from anyone else.

If the pilot believes that he was doing right in the eyes of the lord. Well then good for him. I am sure that he puts God before American Airlines and his job.

However I believe that this should be done in private and not over the PA system on an aircraft.

Rich

 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 17645
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

RE: AA Pilot Asks Passengers To Discuss Christianity

Sun Feb 08, 2004 7:14 pm

I'd be thrilled to know my pilot was a Christian and not an atheist flying my plane up there.

What difference does the pilot's religion, or lack of one, have to do with anything? I don't care if he's a gay satan worshipper in his spare time, all I care is that he knows how to get the plane back on the ground in one piece.  Insane

Happy Holidays

Has the world gone totally PC mad? In the UK we say "Happy Christmas" at Christmas time, regardless of the religion of the person we're talking to.  Insane
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
ushermittwoch
Posts: 2608
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 10:18 pm

RE: AA Pilot Asks Passengers To Discuss Christianity

Sun Feb 08, 2004 7:51 pm

I don't think that "Merry Christmas" is anything objectionable to say. Just look at a calendar. What does it say:" Christmas Eve/Day". It's like wishing somebody a good "New Year" or a "Happy Easter", since last time I checked, that was the name of Easter Sunday.
However if that pilot wants to single out people for their beliefs, he should do that in his spare time. And if all those "Christians passengers" were what they claim to be, they'd already be talking to the non-Christians about their religion.
Some people just need to learn to shut up and let other people be happy the way they live.
Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
User avatar
solnabo
Posts: 5025
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:53 am

RE: AA Pilot Asks Passengers To Discuss Christianity

Sun Feb 08, 2004 9:43 pm

IMO religion and politics is the cause of all evil in the world today...

Michael//SE
www.moveon.org
Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
nudelhirsch
Posts: 1371
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2003 6:20 am

RE: AA Pilot Asks Passengers To Discuss Christianity

Sun Feb 08, 2004 10:50 pm

this medal has 2 sides...

1. cpts behavior
2. the contents of what he said

I am not going to enter my second point, as this would be endless, and probably annoy if not offend many people out here.

But the cpts behavior was very unprofessional and thus inacceptable. Its somewhat different if he announces the latest baseball results or so, no problem, but what he did was actually pretty annoying to many pax.
This sadly gives another opportunity to scrutinize AAs professionality after the nice behavior in Brazil...sad that even in the hardest times for airlines those who have the privillege to fly for a living are just trmapling their professionality under their own feet.

really sad...
Putana da Seatbeltz!
 
VC745D
Posts: 208
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2004 5:52 am

RE: AA Pilot Asks Passengers To Discuss Christianity

Sun Feb 08, 2004 11:06 pm

Asking the question on the ground is one thing, but to have the question asked by the unseen captain, in the air, post 9-11, is irresponsible, self-involved, arrogant, insensitive, and terrifying. I'd like someone a little more intelligent up front.
 
jumbojet
Posts: 2940
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 3:01 am

RE: AA Pilot Asks Passengers To Discuss Christianity

Mon Feb 09, 2004 12:34 am

It's easy to tell the pilot from the non pilot on these posts.

I applaud the pilots who defend their brother, but the pilot in question is wrong. I don't think AA should go as far as to fire him, but some kind of disiplinary action should be taken.
 
Greg
Posts: 5539
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:11 am

RE: AA Pilot Asks Passengers To Discuss Christianity

Mon Feb 09, 2004 1:01 am

Quite frankly, I would have demanded to get off the aircraft if it was still on the ground. Passenges would have every right to assume that the pilot was unbalanced, or in some way, impaired.

But, he did not harm anyone, so he will likely not be fired for this act alone. I will assume that he will need a psych. evaluation, however.

I have no problem with a flight crew saying Merry Christmas---it's synonymous with the season. Santa did not give birth to Christ--get over that one!
 
capt078
Posts: 415
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 9:52 am

RE: AA Pilot Asks Passengers To Discuss Christiani

Mon Feb 09, 2004 1:07 am

B747forlife: i take issue with one of your comments, though i do appreciate you speaking up. you suggested the captain wasn't shoving religion down throats. that's exactly what he was doing: the captain was proselytizing to what was in effect an audience held hostage to the elements. the captain was literally shoving religion in their ears.

the captain, regardless of his personal beliefs, is a representative of the company, and therefore it is unethical to use his position as captain as a vehicle from which he can pontificate. furthermore, a couple have said that no ones' rights were violated, and i disagree. while there is certainly freedom of speech, there is also freedom of religion, and in this case, i feel the captain treaded precariously close to inhibiting the rights of all his passengers and crew. not only were the non-christians offended, but i would think that christians who regard religion as a personal matter would also be offended.

what's next, jews on one side and gentiles on the other? or should every non-christian wear something on his clothing so that the rest of the world knows he doesn't believe in jesus? ooh wait, i got it, let's be sardonic and see to it that vegans, jews, and moslems are fed only pork products, and the christians get potato latkes and gefilte fish.
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: AA Pilot Asks Passengers To Discuss Christianity

Mon Feb 09, 2004 1:25 am

I wonder what all the dimwitted holy rollers supporting this foolish pilot's stupid statement would say if the pilot asked all the Democrats among the passengers to discuss their personal political beliefs with Republicans on board. Or what about a gay pilot telling gay pax and crew to explain to their straight compatriots the joy of a nice tight butt. We'd never hear the end of it on the conservative vomitmeister shows.

Wishing someone a Merry Christmas (I do it all the time as an atheist), is not the same as asking a captive audience stuck in a metal tube to be openly proselytized to. Its in bad taste.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
ushermittwoch
Posts: 2608
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 10:18 pm

RE: AA Pilot Asks Passengers To Discuss Christianity

Mon Feb 09, 2004 1:42 am

Hey Jaysit,

what do you think would have happened (to him and on this board) if the pilot was a Muslim, who just wanted his fellow believers to talk to the other passengers about their beliefs?!

Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
SlamClick
Posts: 9576
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:09 am

RE: AA Pilot Asks Passengers To Discuss Christianity

Mon Feb 09, 2004 2:00 am

"Please return your Christian to its original upright position."

Amazing, the violent reactions you can get from people who were not even affected. A little perspective please.

The pilot is sick. His mind is not right now. (no reflection whatever on the nature of his beliefs) He needs to sort out (probably with professionan and clerical help) the reasons for this egregious departure from Company policy and professional standards. He knew better and he blew it. He needs to get fixed.

The Company needs to assure the flying public that their pilots are not in any great hurry to meet their maker. He must be removed from the flight schedule for a while.

The rest of us? We were not hurt in any way. The passengers who were actually on board may have been frightened. That is between them and AA and maybe the FAA. It is certainly none of my businiess.

One time the driver of the bus sang "the wheels of the bus go 'round and 'round" all the way to the employees' parking lot - with the damn mike keyed. Once might have been funny. Over and over for ten minutes.
Was the guy a nut? For certain.
Was I injured? Of course not.

Fired? Evaluation for possible mental illness is indicated. You cannot fire a person for having the symptoms of a disease. This includes drinking for a person suffering from alcoholism and spots for one having measles. You can remove him from the flight schedule but you can't fire him. And most of you should be grateful for that! Drug tests all around anyone?

Demand your money back? Used to know a guy that would look for some excuse not to tip the waitress every time he went out for a meal. Didn't like the color the men's room was painted - stiff the waitress. Was that you?

On a broader scope: Saying "Merry Christmas" is no more religious than saying "Happy Bastille Day" is political. The day has a name on the calendar, we are just wishing you a happy one. I wish a happy Guy Fawkes day when I remember to.




Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
thvgjp
Posts: 147
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 8:17 am

RE: AA Pilot Asks Passengers To Discuss Christianity

Mon Feb 09, 2004 3:13 am

Yes the cpt was wrong in what he did is he nuts or mentally ill probably not. The world will become a scary place when anybody thinks someone with a certain belief and expressing it is mentally ill and needs professional help. Remember the Soviets used to put believers in insane assylums because their minds were not totally in line with Marx and Lennin. They were scene as a threat to the order of things. Do we want to go back to those days, I dont. I dont think someone expressing their views on religion or politics if they differ from mine are nuts and should treated professionally. Every totalitarian state has had its reeducation camps and other methods to "cure" the people out of line with current political thought. There must be something to this Chritianity stuff if people see it as a real threat, that they would go to the extreme of even thinking someone who believes in Christianity and preaches it is nuts. It must even be a real threat to the Saudis as it is a capitaol offence to convert to or preach Christianity. There must be some truth to it as it is a huge treat to humanity

just my 2 cents
Glen
 
jeffrey1970
Posts: 1478
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2001 1:41 am

RE: AA Pilot Asks Passengers To Discuss Christianity

Mon Feb 09, 2004 3:29 am

Gigneil,

What Constitutional freedom did the pilot take away from the passengers?

God bless through Jesus,

Jeff
God bless through Jesus, Jeff
 
SlamClick
Posts: 9576
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:09 am

RE: AA Pilot Asks Passengers To Discuss Christianity

Mon Feb 09, 2004 3:56 am

Thvgip

This is one of the problems. YOU cannot separate the inappropriatness of his use of the PA system of an airliner from an attack on YOUR faith.

If you disagree try this. Change Christianity to Islam or Judaism or neoPagan Druid (Reformed) and see if you still feel like making the argument you make. I believe that YOUR assessment of whether his actions were right or wrong is absolutely tied to your faith in YOUR religion.

It has nothing to do with the cause being advanced. I'll even concede for the sake of argument that the God of the Christians is the one and only true god and the rest of us are going to burn in hell for eternity. That has nothing to do with this event.

He does not own the PA on that airplane. The company owns it. They require that he use it to make announcements related to their safety. They want him to use it to welcome people aboard and make PR efforts on behalf of the airline. The rules for use of the PA are contained in their Operations Manual and he is required by FAR to be familiar with the content of that manual. Any person who would deliberately and publicly violate the rules set forth in the Company operations manual must be seen as a possible threat to the public safety. It is the same manual that tells him he cannot drink alcohol before coming on duty. We cannot "cherry-pick" the rules we want to obey.

He is not permitted to use the PA for personal messages. It is not just the Godless airlines, all large companies have rules about promoting personal causes on company property. No matter how worthy the cause we are not permitted to do it.

That he might have offended Jews or Moslems or Buddhists is not really the point. 9/11 is more the point. He frightened passengers. A religious war has been declared on us - a nation that cannot, by Federal law even acknowledge religion. He frightened passengers and we are never permitted to do that, even if the plane is about to crash. A pilot in his right mind, knows what is, or is not, allowed to be said on the PA.

I believe that he needs professional help. I believe that not because he is a Christian. That is just silly and you should be embarrassed for having proposed such nonsense. I believe it because he violated important company rules in a very public way that any reasonable person (or any person in their right mind) would know is going to get space in the newspapers.


Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
VC745D
Posts: 208
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2004 5:52 am

RE: AA Pilot Asks Passengers To Discuss Christianity

Mon Feb 09, 2004 3:59 am

Jeff-- With all due respect--the pilot is free to preach all he wants (just as you do subtly here with the "God Bless through Jesus" close to your posts). But as I said earlier, it is my opinion that the pilot acted in self-interest not because he wished to spread his beliefs, but because of where he did it: airborne in an age when he should be more concerned with the well-being of his passengers, including anxiety over hijacking, than with his proselytizing. Is it Christian to care more about yourself and your message more than the well-being of those in your charge?
 
SlamClick
Posts: 9576
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:09 am

RE: AA Pilot Asks Passengers To Discuss Christianity

Mon Feb 09, 2004 4:04 am

VC745D

I agree with you. I actually appreciate it that born-again Christians are concerned for my everlasting soul (whether or not I have one)

But the captain does not own the PA. The company does.

That argument will probably not carry much weight with those of you who are reading this while at work, but it is stealing from the company.

Too bad I can't surf the net via ACARS!


Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos