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FA4UA
Topic Author
Posts: 777
Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2003 6:26 pm

UA Doubles NRT-HNL Service

Tue Feb 10, 2004 10:11 am

Great news for United!

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040209/cgm077_1.html

Also supports my theory (based on recent statements from CEO Tilton) that we'll be seeing more international expansion because that's where the money is!

FA4UA
The debate continues... Starwood or Hyatt... which is better
 
ORD747CLE
Posts: 236
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2003 10:31 am

RE: UA Doubles NRT-HNL Service

Tue Feb 10, 2004 10:19 am

Excellent news!! Great post, I would have missed that.

Ord747Cle
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 7889
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

RE: UA Doubles NRT-HNL Service

Tue Feb 10, 2004 12:17 pm

Good to see.

How about a return to AKL then? Wishful thinking on my behalf then.
 
kalakaua
Posts: 1430
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 5:23 pm

RE: UA Doubles NRT-HNL Service

Tue Feb 10, 2004 12:30 pm

Great for United! UA has also been a part of Hawaii culture since 1947.  Big thumbs up
Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion.
 
HNLFlyBoy
Posts: 318
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2004 12:01 pm

RE: UA Doubles NRT-HNL Service

Wed Feb 11, 2004 2:10 am

Does anyone think that with the addition of this second flight to NRT daily they will now re-open the Intl F Class lounge at HNL? It is a gorgeous facility accessed through the RCC above Gate 10 in the Diamond Head concourse, where all UA flights depart from. I had a chance to visit this lounge a couple of times, since they were using it to accomodate RCC members while the Club was being renovated and was very impressed with the facility, especially since it was brand spanking new at the time.
 
kalakaua
Posts: 1430
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 5:23 pm

RE: UA Doubles NRT-HNL Service

Wed Feb 11, 2004 2:24 am

Hopefully they will. I've been there too. It's has a great view!
Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion.
 
HNLFlyBoy
Posts: 318
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2004 12:01 pm

RE: UA Doubles NRT-HNL Service

Wed Feb 11, 2004 2:28 am

I knew someone would be able to answer my question....Mahalo Kalakaua! So quickly too, no? Yep, I love that Lounge, but really need to try it out as an Intl. F pax...I heard UA ain't bad in Intl. F.
 
scottysair
Posts: 6441
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 4:07 pm

RE: UA Doubles NRT-HNL Service

Wed Feb 11, 2004 6:24 am

This is very nice move for UA and make added double-daily flight to NRT. This is very good to hear.
 
UnitedFirst
Posts: 451
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2001 12:16 pm

RE: UA Doubles NRT-HNL Service

Wed Feb 11, 2004 7:30 am

Following the return of United's daily Osaka-Honolulu service last March, this addition brings United's Japan-Hawaii service to three flights a day, further strengthening United's leadership position in the Hawaiian market.

Isn't United dropping the KIX-HNL service, and instead codesharing on ANA's service on the same route?

Derek
 
UA744KSFO
Posts: 411
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 5:55 am

RE: UA Doubles NRT-HNL Service

Wed Feb 11, 2004 7:32 am

It would be cool if they re-started HNL-SYD to give HA and QF some competition.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: UA Doubles NRT-HNL Service

Wed Feb 11, 2004 7:39 am

Isn't United dropping the KIX-HNL service, and instead codesharing on ANA's service on the same route?

ANA dropped the route, so that United could have it.

N
 
JC5280
Posts: 523
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2001 12:06 pm

RE: UA Doubles NRT-HNL Service

Wed Feb 11, 2004 12:22 pm

ANA "contracts" the KIX flight from UA. The have a set number of seats to sell on it and then UA gets the rest. Sounds like a code-share, but ANA actually sells about 90 percent of the aircraft.
 
Thrust
Posts: 2587
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2003 12:17 pm

RE: UA Doubles NRT-HNL Service

Wed Feb 11, 2004 1:09 pm

UAL has had a marvelous breakout recently. The addition of new routes, the introduction of TED, the new livery, and the announcement of their return to Zurich is a good sign that United is getting better. Will they ever go back to Auckland?
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
N777UA
Posts: 566
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:06 pm

RE: UA Doubles NRT-HNL Service

Wed Feb 11, 2004 2:37 pm

United intends on returning to Auckland when they can start making money on the route again. They'll probably throw a 777 on it at first, before upping to the 747-400.

And yeah, United's really breaking out. The recovery is pretty much at full throttle now. All that's left is a new Express carrier to replace ACA, and the pension thing, and Ch. 11's over.

Can't wait to see the party at ORD/DEN/SFO/LAX/IAD/NRT on June 30!
 
HNLFlyBoy
Posts: 318
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2004 12:01 pm

RE: UA Doubles NRT-HNL Service

Wed Feb 11, 2004 2:40 pm

I'm really happy for UA. Now just give us some three-class a/c between HNL and the West Coast and I will be really happy. I wouldn't even mind one flight at day to LAX and SFO on a T7. Please........
 
Guest

RE: UA Doubles NRT-HNL Service

Wed Feb 11, 2004 3:11 pm

Also supports my theory (based on recent statements from CEO Tilton) that we'll be seeing more international expansion because that's where the money is!

This route was previously flown with a B744 -- did they have two daily B744 at one point?

Nonetheless, I don't believe this route is an illustation of "international expansion" or "very good news for UA." I'd bet anything it's being used as a place-holder for slots at NRT...
 
FA4UA
Topic Author
Posts: 777
Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2003 6:26 pm

RE: UA Doubles NRT-HNL Service

Wed Feb 11, 2004 3:12 pm

I think if it were up to a.net members UA would be flying thrice daily 744's to AKL! It's kinda funny how many people post around the various boards asking about AKL!

With Air NZ flying SFO now there is no need for us to operate it. There isn't enough traffic sadly. I really really wish it wasn't the case though! I would love a 50 hour layover in Aukland!

3 class aircraft going HNL to LAX/SFO/DEN will likely never return (never say never). The domestic 777 is a huge people mover and since there's such little yield on this market for premium passengers we'll likely not see 3 class service in the near future.

FA4UA
The debate continues... Starwood or Hyatt... which is better
 
HNLFlyBoy
Posts: 318
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2004 12:01 pm

RE: UA Doubles NRT-HNL Service

Wed Feb 11, 2004 3:24 pm

Industrial Pate...I believe the route HNL-NRT was originally handled by a 742 prior to it being a 744 and eventually becoming a T7. Why so critical of UA's announcement of adding a second flight? This is great news to us here in Hawaii where our second largest economy is tourism. The addition of just that one additional flight daily will make available another 1,932 available seats from NRT weekly. I sure hope UA isn't using this as a "pawn" to hold their slots at NRT as you suggested...That would be very disappointing.
 
Guest

RE: UA Doubles NRT-HNL Service

Wed Feb 11, 2004 4:17 pm

HNLFlyboy,
Yes, I believe UA choose a route to NRT that they believed would perform steady for them to "hold" some slots they were about to lose... I still think an OGG-NRT flight by a USA-flag carrier would be more interesting...

[Edited 2004-02-11 08:17:59]
 
HNLFlyBoy
Posts: 318
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2004 12:01 pm

RE: UA Doubles NRT-HNL Service

Wed Feb 11, 2004 4:37 pm

IndustrialPate,

What route did they drop into NRT that they needed to add the HNL-NRT flight in order to "hold the slot"? I didn't hear of them dropping any services into NRT.
 
Guest

RE: UA Doubles NRT-HNL Service

Wed Feb 11, 2004 4:42 pm

HNLFlyboy,
They haven't been using all their slots... NRT has a 'use it or lose it' policy and UA's time was probably almost up...
 
HNLFlyBoy
Posts: 318
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2004 12:01 pm

RE: UA Doubles NRT-HNL Service

Wed Feb 11, 2004 4:48 pm

ah ok, that explains it. Thanks.
 
Bluewave 707
Posts: 2794
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 8:21 am

RE: UA Doubles NRT-HNL Service

Wed Feb 11, 2004 6:41 pm

One good sign from this announcement is that the number of visitors from Japan appear to be on the rise, which will be a boon to the Hawaii economy. We'll see if JL steps up their flights as well. No problem for NH, since they are Star Alliance members. Either they caan step up flights, or UA could, and code-share their pax on the flight.

NRT-OGG flights may be possible, but I would think the largest aircraft any carrier could use would be a 767, considering the runway length. Both JL and NH have them.
"The best use of your life will be to so live your life, that the use of your life will outlive your life" -- D Severn
 
UA744Flagship
Posts: 1433
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 1999 1:55 pm

RE: UA Doubles NRT-HNL Service

Wed Feb 11, 2004 8:02 pm

"Nonetheless, I don't believe this route is an illustation of "international expansion" or "very good news for UA." I'd bet anything it's being used as a place-holder for slots at NRT..."

If what you say about a slot "grace period" is true, it must be one helluva long grace period. United hasn't cut any flights out of NRT lately. Best to hope B747-437B jumps in here, as he has an extraordinary knowledge of bilateral agreements and international slot systems... Such things as slot agreements are better represented by sure facts, than by "I think" opinions.

"I still think an OGG-NRT flight by a USA-flag carrier would be more interesting..."

Please. Interesting? Possibly. Profitable, absolutely not. Compared to Maui, Honoululu actually has some semblance of a business market that warrants a non-leisure market configured aircraft. JAL at one point served (don't know if they still do) KOA-NRT, but with one of their 'beach market' 747s.
no wire hangers!
 
Guest

RE: UA Doubles NRT-HNL Service

Thu Feb 12, 2004 4:25 am

Sorry, UA744Flagship, but I believe that if UA really wanted to increase capacity in this market in the long-term, they would've upgraded the existing flight to a B744 (which would've injected more economy & a few more business class seats). Or they would've installed crew rests/flown a two-class B772 to supplement the three-class aircraft (don't give me any crap that UA doesn't have the two-class 772 aircraft to spare). No airline can feasibly (other than giving them away...) fill the nearly 125 premium-cabin seats that UA will have in this market... JAL, ANA and NWA have all went with watered-down products...

I know for a fact that UA's been juggling some of their NRT slots around for a couple years. I know for a fact that NRT has a 'use it or lose it policy.' I know for a fact that adding a high-premium product in a low-yield market (HNL has little premium traffic to Japan) in a tightly restricted slot-controlled market just doesn't make much sense. I would be shocked if this new service was meant to be a long-term solution UA hoped to impose, rather than a slot filler. And you would be an idiot to insist that UA would rather fly 2xHNL-NRT as opposed to 2xLAX-NRT.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: UA Doubles NRT-HNL Service

Thu Feb 12, 2004 5:09 am

I completely agree with IP. When you have a low yield market, a larger frame is always preferable to multiple frequencies.

N
 
Guest

RE: UA Doubles NRT-HNL Service

Thu Feb 12, 2004 6:30 am

Another point to ponder-- Hawaii expects a DECREASE in Japanese tourism this year. Thus, another passengers UA will be picking up will be from OAL... like I said, a B744 would be a sign of ambitious, positive growth... but another flight with 60 more premium seats utilizing coveted slots??? Please...
 
UA744Flagship
Posts: 1433
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 1999 1:55 pm

RE: UA Doubles NRT-HNL Service

Thu Feb 12, 2004 6:49 am

"And you would be an idiot to insist that UA would rather fly 2xHNL-NRT as opposed to 2xLAX-NRT."

Huh. Did I ever lean towards even hinting at that in my post?

I never said Honolulu had much of a biz travel market. I simply said "it has at least some semblance of one" compared to Maui, which you said "would be more interesting" than Honolulu... Which is a better example of idiocy.

Quoting myself:
"Compared to Maui, Honoululu actually has some semblance of a business market that warrants a non-leisure market configured aircraft."

Yes, you said "I still think an OGG-NRT flight by a USA-flag carrier would be more interesting..." [reply #18]

My response was in response to that comment, that effectively read it would be interesting for UAL to serve OGG-NRT rather than HNL-NRT...

"don't give me any crap that UA doesn't have the two-class 772 aircraft to spare"
The costs to outfit a 2-class 777 with a crew rest are prohibitive. Why else would UA be fine with foregoing ORD-HNL/OGG??

However, you have made a pretty good case that the flight's purpose is just a slot holder; the only place I can see the slot coming from is that, so far, UA is not running the 3rd daily summer SFO-NRT service as they did last year.
no wire hangers!
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: UA Doubles NRT-HNL Service

Thu Feb 12, 2004 7:03 am

The costs to outfit a 2-class 777 with a crew rest are prohibitive.

I don't really buy that. I agree that the cost may be more than UA wants to spend, but you could put two of their C class seats on the plane for not that much.

I think it just cuts into their F class space, which is already limited.

N
 
mattnrsa
Posts: 426
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2002 12:27 pm

RE: UA Doubles NRT-HNL Service

Thu Feb 12, 2004 9:34 am

Does anyone know specifics on how the AA), Japan">NRT slot system works? It was several years ago, but I thought NW and UA had an exemption from the slot system since they were already serving AA), Japan">NRT, while DL, AA, and the others were restricted to a small number of slots as new carriers to the market. Maybe that was only in the beginning. Anyone know for sure?
 
Guest

RE: UA Doubles NRT-HNL Service

Thu Feb 12, 2004 6:56 pm

I thought NW and UA had an exemption from the slot system …
No carrier is exempt from ‘the slot system.’ You’re thinking of Fifth Freedom rights -- NW and UA (through PA) can carry local traffic from Japan to any point in Asia. However, this does not exempt them from having slots to do so.

Does anyone know specifics on how the NRT slot system works?
It's late & I can't think straight so I'll keep it simple & brief: each take-off and landing at NRT require a slot… so a carrier needs to have two slots at NRT per day to operate…


[Edited 2004-02-12 10:57:20]
 
Guest

RE: UA Doubles NRT-HNL Service

Thu Feb 12, 2004 7:01 pm

Huh. Did I ever lean towards even hinting at that in my post?

You missed my point, which is that UA’s using HNL-NRT to hold slots they eventually hope to use to operate LAX/SFO/wherever-NRT with…

I never said Honolulu had much of a biz travel market. I simply said "it has at least some semblance of one" compared to Maui, which you said "would be more interesting" than Honolulu... Which is a better example of idiocy.

And I stand by my statement. The 60 premium seats UA already has in the HNL-NRT market is probably more than sufficient for their needs. HNL-Japan is overserved as it is… it would’ve been interesting to see an American carrier try OGG-Japan, since JAL is the only competition on the route & yields are generally higher. If anybody could do it, it’d be UA…

[Edited 2004-02-12 11:03:31]
 
UA744Flagship
Posts: 1433
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 1999 1:55 pm

RE: UA Doubles NRT-HNL Service

Thu Feb 12, 2004 10:21 pm

"It's late & I can't think straight so I'll keep it simple & brief: each take-off and landing at NRT require a slot… so a carrier needs to have two slots at NRT per day to operate… "

Wow, thank you Mr. Wizard!  Smile I didn't know THAT's what a slot was!

...IndustrialPate, everyone except the idiots know what a slot is. It's one of the most simple concepts.

Clearly, what was asked was do you KNOW HOW THE NRT SLOT SYSTEM WORKS, now what a slot is! Since you claim to know it all, please show! B747-437B would gladly step up to the plate. But for you, "It's too late..."  Yeah sure

"which is that UA’s using HNL-NRT to hold slots they eventually hope to use to operate LAX/SFO/wherever-NRT with…"

As I said, the only place where I could see this service's slot coming from is the 3rd daily SFO-NRT that UAL ran in 2002 (I don't know what it was used for last year).

" JAL is the only competition on the route & yields are generally higher. "

As long as you keep making specious claims, I will be there to doubt them. What is your proof? How do you substantiate this?? I can tell you, that based on the latest CENSUS, Honolulu proper has more than double the business revenue of Maui.
no wire hangers!
 
Guest

RE: UA Doubles NRT-HNL Service

Fri Feb 13, 2004 5:53 am

UA744Flagship,
I previously wrote you a response but then decided, 'nah, why bother?' Go troll somebody else. And in the future, if you choose to respond to me, I shall expect you to refer to me as the title ('God') you previously gave me.

[Edited 2004-02-12 21:59:14]
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: UA Doubles NRT-HNL Service

Fri Feb 13, 2004 7:19 am

You have no idea what UA's total NRT slots are. It could even be from the year before, and, one way or the other, it could be the slot from the 3rd daily SFO-NRT.

N
 
TokyoNarita
Posts: 556
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2003 5:30 am

RE: UA Doubles NRT-HNL Service

Fri Feb 13, 2004 8:56 am

UA is managing their awarded Narita slots by juggling equipment upgrades and downgrades. This second HNL service is going to be B777 because there is probably other city pair that warrants an upgrade from a B777 to B744 service or even increase in frequency as the demand shifts.

It is the use of the long runway (34L/16R) at Narita that is tightly slot restricted. UA has a certain number of these. All B744 departures/arrivals and B777 (heavyweight) departures must use this long runway.

However, B777s are capable of using the short runway (34R/16L) for all arrivals and some departures (Note: under certain weight: mostly for short haul intra-Asia flights) UA may choose to shift all B777 arrivals and even some departures (to Seoul for example) to the short runway, freeing up some long runway slots (34L/16R) for equipment upgrades or possibly additional service.

NW is also taking advantage of the short runway for their intra-Asia flights by introducing A320/B757s. Overall they have increased the number of flights in the past couple of years.

TokyoNarita.


[Edited 2004-02-13 01:19:24]
 
Guest

RE: UA Doubles NRT-HNL Service

Fri Feb 13, 2004 12:04 pm

UA744Flagship,
I responded with accurate information. In fact, I responded as best as I could to your most recent string of questions but then opted to remove my response since I knew you'd argue with me if I said, for example, CA was on the West Coast.

I have no interest in conversing with a 20-year-old self-proclaimed "raver boi" who insists he's undergoing interviews for managerial positions with UA (despite once listing he graduated HS in 2001 – finished with college already?) Enjoy your rave pacifier -- judging by your responses to me, it seems like you need it.

(P.S. I've never attacked you & don't believe there was need for you to attack me. If you can respond to me in a stable manner, than I will be more than happy to converse with you in the future. If not, then please move along.)

[Edited 2004-02-13 04:09:08]
 
NrtExpress
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2004 1:53 pm

RE: UA Doubles NRT-HNL Service

Fri Feb 13, 2004 3:27 pm

Provided there will be no more major international conflicts nor epidemic problems such as SARS, Japanese outbound international traffic is expected to make a major comeback from the depressed level of 2003. In fact, the travel industry is anticipating the outbound traffic of the Japanese nationals to reach 16.5 million this year, up some 23% from last year. After the Iraqi war and SARS crisis, the Japanese business traffic has made a fairly quick comeback while the leisure market remained sluggish.

This year, the travel industry is forecasting a handsome increase of the traffic to the traditional Japanese leisure market destinations including Hawaii.

To be sure , both JAL and ANA were very encouraged by the strong traffic to Hawaii during the last New Year holiday season as evidenced by the numerous extra flights operated by both carriers. ( significantly more than than the year before )

I hope UA will be able to capitalize on the healthy return of Japanese traffic to Hawaii by this additional service during the peak summer season, as it is rather difficult to remain competitive on this high-density leisure market when other carriers are offering multiple daily flights.

 
UA744Flagship
Posts: 1433
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 1999 1:55 pm

RE: UA Doubles NRT-HNL Service

Fri Feb 13, 2004 4:04 pm

IndustrialPate,

More inaccurate information. Does it ever stop?

1. You still didn't answer the NRT question. HOW DOES THE SYSTEM WORK?

2. I am 21, and I never called myself a "raver boi" or anything like it.

3. I graduated HS in 2000. Believe what you want about my upcoming interview for a managerial postion (not position(s))... you even manage to turn singulars into plurals!

There's no need to resort to an attack on my personal life (or what you think it is). Are you desperate now?

I am attacking your habit of posting inaccurate information in UA threads, just because your are so "knowledgable" in other posts. Never have I mentioned any information about you outside your aviation posts. Highly inappropriate.

Oh, and it looks like you defeated yourself by responding to my post.
"I previously wrote you a response but then decided, 'nah, why bother?' Go troll somebody else. "

YOU WIN THE PRIZE!!!  Smile



TokyoNarita, thanks for providing that information.
no wire hangers!
 
BritishMidland
Posts: 167
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 4:57 am

RE: UA Doubles NRT-HNL Service

Fri Feb 13, 2004 4:28 pm

You guys need to stop taking this too personally-- so one is a "raver boi" and the other a bottle of (used) Summer's Eve-- no one gives a rats ass here. Personally I don't care if you are the same person, which in most cases of this type of behavior it is, that or some sort of latent desire to ram the other's chocolate surprise. enough Freud.


The entire NRT-HNL situation revolves around United trying to gain market share. Increase the pax, increase your percentage. United is a business, so stop with all of this "its a shame if they...". Take your shame and peddle it at your local thrift shop. United maximizes its profit anyway it can.

[Edited 2004-02-13 08:45:24]
Enter the new age: A340-500, 777-200LR, 7E7
 
UA744Flagship
Posts: 1433
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 1999 1:55 pm

RE: UA Doubles NRT-HNL Service

Fri Feb 13, 2004 4:38 pm

"United is a business, so stop with all of this "its a shame if they...". Take your shame and peddle it at your local thrift shop. "

Great line! Big grin

I take the time to post because of my enthusiasm for United. I will not stand for some douche bag (you said it, not me!) to hijack United-related posts with misinformation.

Perish the thought that I could ever be GOD OF AIRLINERS.NET.

And still, I am not a "raver boi". What I am is a pilot, insomniac, geek, dork, nerd, drunk, lazy bastard, who happens to love United Airlines, among other things. Why else do I post on airliners.net? Big grin

At least I am not a complete TOOL!!! (FA4UA, you know what I mean -- LOL  Laugh out loud )
no wire hangers!
 
Guest

RE: UA Doubles NRT-HNL Service

Fri Feb 13, 2004 4:58 pm

UA744Troll,

- I responded to a previous poster who was unclear as to what a ‘slot’ was (he had ‘slots’ and Fifth Freedom rights mixed up).

- What exactly do you want to know about NRT’s slot system? Airlines need slots to operate at NRT. Once them have them, if they don’t use them, they lose them. This is why Delta sold its excess slots to FedEx in 2002. UA operates less flights today to NRT than it has in the past… the airline has not recently won any additional slots so one can conclude that the second HNL-NRT will utilize slots the airline already has.

- Depending on the publication or authority, Hawaii will either see a decrease in Japanese visitors vs. 2003 or a small increase (tossing out the period around SARS, when many airlines slashed service thus deflating the 2003 numbers).

- HNL-NRT is a leisure market, which is why JAL, ANA and NWA have created high-density leisure products to serve the route. Instead of upgrading its existing flight to a B744, which would’ve injected mostly Economy seats, UA dumped a second flight + another 60+ premium cabin seats.

- If the real money-making markets (LAX, SFO & beyond) pick-up, I highly doubt UA will continue to fly a second HNL-NRT flight; the slots will be switched to the above services. There’s little question in my mind it’s a place holder – it’s not like UA to add a second flight over upgrading the previous one.

United maximizes its profit anyway it can.

Yes, by selling highly lucrative and highly coveted LHR slots. Undoubtedly the only airline in the world that would do something like this…
 
UA744Flagship
Posts: 1433
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 1999 1:55 pm

RE: UA Doubles NRT-HNL Service

Fri Feb 13, 2004 5:24 pm

Thank you for the civil reply. (Finally)

What I'd like to know about the NRT slot system is: HOW DOES NRT'S SLOT SYSTEM WORK ==> WITH RESPECT TO SLOT LAPSE?

I agree that were LAX/SFO demand to pick up, UA would transfer HNL-NRT over in a heartbeat.

More corrections:

it’s not like UA to add a second flight over upgrading the previous one.
It's not uncommon for UA to do so.

  • In 2001, UA added a 3rd daily flight operated by a 767-300 to SFO-LHR, instead of upgrading the 777 on the route (other freq opb 744)

  • In 2002, UA added a 3rd daily SFO-NRT operated by a 747-400, instead of upgrading a 777 on the route (other freq opb 744)

  • Just this year, UA plans a ORD-KIX, while SFO-KIX remains a 777 (I know it's not the same route, but all of the ORD-KIX market was served thru SFO)

  • Point being, UA sometimes forecasts spikes in demand, and deems that adding a frequency is quite a reasonable move, rather than upgauging.

    Yes, by selling highly lucrative and highly coveted LHR slots. Undoubtedly the only airline in the world that would do something like this…

  • "Sorry", no. SWISS sold British Airways some of their slots last year too.

  • British Airways has acquired "unneeded" LHR slots from a number of other smaller foreign operators

  • The slots were only useful for the east-coast BOS/EWR. During reorganization United rationalized its international flying to its hubs (the sole survivors being the SEA "mini-hub" and token JFK flights), and thus the slots (restricted by time) were useless when it came to adding frequencies to the current gateway cities.
  • no wire hangers!
     
    Guest

    RE: UA Doubles NRT-HNL Service

    Fri Feb 13, 2004 5:56 pm

    UA744Flagship,

    I’m an enthusiast like yourself, not an analyst. I know for a fact that AA), Japan">NRT is slot-controlled & slots are relinquished if they’re not used. Recent examples:

    - DL sold AA), Japan">NRT slots to Fedex in 2002. Their own reasoning was ‘we would’ve lost them, anyway.’

    - Last year NW replaced a 450-passenger 747 with two 144-passenger A320 on the SPN-AA), Japan">NRT route. They issued a press release bragging that they had more frequency on SPN-AA), Japan">NRT than any other USA-based carrier.

    In 2002, UA added a 3rd daily SFO-AA), Japan">NRT operated by a 747-400, instead of upgrading a 777 on the route (other freq opb 744)
    In summer 2002, all three SFO-AA), Japan">NRT flights were operated with B744.

    Just this year, UA plans a ORD-KIX, while SFO-KIX remains a 777 (I know it's not the same route, but all of the ORD-KIX market was served thru SFO)
    That’s an example of expansion & growth. There’s no doubt UA’s hoping to pick-up passengers that would otherwise fly NW via DTW

    The slots were only useful for the east-coast BOS/EWR.
    No, those shots could’ve been used to add frequency to other routes – LHR slots are not route specific. AA and UA have juggled their frequencies around various cities over the years.
     
    UA744Flagship
    Posts: 1433
    Joined: Tue Jul 13, 1999 1:55 pm

    RE: UA Doubles NRT-HNL Service

    Fri Feb 13, 2004 6:06 pm

    In summer 2002, all three SFO-AA), Japan">AA), Japan">NRT flights were operated with B744.
    Summer 2002 is when I worked as a UAX/SkyWest Gate Agent at SFO.
    During June, it was 2x744 and 1x777. I should know. I tried to non-rev on one of the 777s.

    No, those shots could’ve been used to add frequency to other routes – LHR slots are not route specific. AA and UA have juggled their frequencies around various cities over the years.
    If you do some research, you'll see that these slot times do not correspond to suitable departure times from SFO/LAX. And with regards to ORD/IAD, these would require simultaneous departures, not particularly desireable. If UA could have used the slots to add more frequencies at desireable times, they would have done it. Clearly, they could not, so the slots were sold. Now what's wrong with that?

    Still, your statement that no other airlines would do what UA did was dead wrong. Why go out of the way to bash UA?
    no wire hangers!
     
    Guest

    RE: UA Doubles NRT-HNL Service

    Fri Feb 13, 2004 6:24 pm

    During June, it was 2x744 and 1x777. I should know. I tried to non-rev on one of the 777s.
    Most of June is Spring  Laugh out loud. The route was three B744 throughout most of the summer...

    If you do some research, you'll see that these slot times do not correspond to suitable departure times from SFO/LAX
    Sorry, I don't buy it. UA has had no problem juggling slots around before to get the schedule ex-West Coast they wanted. Obviously they set their LHR schedule, had some slots left over & sold them off rather than losing/getting nothing for them.

    Still, your statement that no other airlines would do what UA did was dead wrong.
    I'm talking about prime slots...

    Why go out of the way to bash UA?
    I used a point to illustate my response to a silly statement.... I didn't go out of my way to bash UA - what I said was truthful.

    And BTW, by the end of next month I will have flown UA more than NW for calander year 2004...
     
    UA744Flagship
    Posts: 1433
    Joined: Tue Jul 13, 1999 1:55 pm

    RE: UA Doubles NRT-HNL Service

    Fri Feb 13, 2004 6:33 pm

    Most of June is spring, but the 3rd daily frequency was running in June. So tongue out back at you.

    "UA has had no problem juggling slots around before to get the schedule ex-West Coast they wanted."
    Another specious claim. The West Coast - LHR has been on a relatively stable schedule. Example: my SFO-LHR flight during 1998 left at the same time my SFO-LHR flight left in 2002. Same goes to my LAX-LHR flight of 2002 compared to the LAX-LHR flight times in previous years.

    "Obviously they set their LHR schedule, had some slots left over & sold them off rather than losing/getting nothing for them. "
    So now you appear to approve of it, or at least understand the logic.

    Quoting you: "Yes, by selling highly lucrative and highly coveted LHR slots. Undoubtedly the only airline in the world that would do something like this…"
    Yet here, it would seem that you don't approve and/or don't understand. As if you wouldn't have done it if you were in UA's shoes.

    Looks like a little backpeddling to me. But you're probably too humble to make note of it... wait a second, you're exactly the opposite.  Acting devilish

    "I'm talking about prime slots..."
    SWISS were prime slots too.

    "what I said was truthful."
    Maybe to you, but factually no.

    There is no way to prove you wrong because you're GOD OF AIRLINERS.NET. I'm done with this thread.

    Anyone who will take up the defense, be prepared for a long trial.

    GOD OF AIRLINERS.NET,

    I worship you. I really do.









    ...not really.  Laugh out loud

    [Edited 2004-02-13 10:54:16]
    no wire hangers!
     
    Guest

    RE: UA Doubles NRT-HNL Service

    Fri Feb 13, 2004 6:56 pm

    There is no way to prove you wrong because you're GOD OF AIRLINERS.NET

    It'd be interesting conversing with you if you did away with the personal attacks & insults. In three different threads you've been quick to attack & insult me without me ever doing the same to you (although I finally retaliated in this thread). I hope you'll never be employeed by UA, because they deserve much, much better than you.

    [Edited 2004-02-13 10:59:40]
     
    UA744Flagship
    Posts: 1433
    Joined: Tue Jul 13, 1999 1:55 pm

    RE: UA Doubles NRT-HNL Service

    Fri Feb 13, 2004 7:02 pm

    Your wrote:
    "hree times now you've been quick to attack & insult me without me ever doing the same to you. "

    Excuse me?

    You wrote previously:
    "I have no interest in conversing with a 20-year-old self-proclaimed "raver boi" who insists he's undergoing interviews for managerial positions with UA (despite once listing he graduated HS in 2001 – finished with college already?) Enjoy your rave pacifier -- judging by your responses to me, it seems like you need it."

    Lies, lies, and more lies from you.

    That's about as personal an attack as they can get. And included with slanderous and libelous as well as inaccurate information about me too!

    Just had to throw that in. Done. Really.
    no wire hangers!
     
    Guest

    RE: UA Doubles NRT-HNL Service

    Fri Feb 13, 2004 7:05 pm

    Lies, lies, and more lies from you.

    No, you're backpeddling. Re-read what I wrote. I challenge you to show me a single thread in which I launched a person attack against you...

    Grow up & get a life.

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