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HALFA
Topic Author
Posts: 1070
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 8:24 am

Europe To Hawaii Nonstop?

Tue Feb 17, 2004 3:56 pm

Singapore Airlines recently started nonstop service from Singapore to Los Angeles. I don't know what the distance is from say HNL-LHR or HNL-FRA, but isn't it closer than SIN-LAX? Conceivably, could we see a carrier offering nonstop flights from Europe to Honolulu in the not so distant future? Wouldn't that be great?!
Several years ago, I used to work scheduled charter flights from HNL to Frankfurt and Zurich with a fuel stop in ANC. It was about 5 1/2 hours from HNL-ANC and then between 8-9 hours from ANC-FRA depending on the winds.
Does anyone know if any airline has already made such a flight, charter or otherwise?

Aloha
Hawaiian Airlines Since 1929...........
 
gerardo
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RE: Europe To Hawaii Nonstop?

Tue Feb 17, 2004 4:10 pm

Hi there

which airline did you work for? I didn't know, that ZRH had a charter flight to HNL via ANC.  Wow!

I guess, traffic is not high enough and certainly not high yield on such a leisure route. But I would love it  Smile/happy/getting dizzy .

Regards
Gerardo
dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
 
je89_w
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RE: Europe To Hawaii Nonstop?

Tue Feb 17, 2004 4:12 pm

What airline operated the FRA/ZRH-ANC-HNL route? (The one you worked for)

It's possible with a B744ER, B777ER, A340-500, other long range jets. But I don't think the market would be too hot.
 
HNLFlyBoy
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RE: Europe To Hawaii Nonstop?

Tue Feb 17, 2004 4:14 pm

HALFA,

Didn't LH have a flight for awhile? Is this the flight you used to work? I remember seeing the launch flight on the nightly news with then Gov. Waihee being interviewed. The only problem with a direct flight from Europe is that we are and always will be a "leisure" destination. I hate being labeled that, but we are. SIN-LAX will work because it connects two global "business" destinations.
 
killerbabe
Posts: 185
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RE: Europe To Hawaii Nonstop?

Tue Feb 17, 2004 4:22 pm

A non-stop flight between Europe to Hawaii is not the regular schedules of the great European carriers for a number of reasons. First, most, if not all the European carriers has American partners who have good links between their hubs and Hawaii, second, for most Europeans Hawaii is to far and most Europeans goes the Caribbean or the Mediterranean.
And as far as I know, most Asian carriers doesn't serve Hawaii as well,
( as far as I know only JAL,ANA, China airlines en Eva serve Hawaii), but correct me if I am wrong.....
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Europe To Hawaii Nonstop?

Tue Feb 17, 2004 4:26 pm

Balair operated to HNL for a very short period in the mid/late 90s.

Honestly tough I doubt you would see any of those ultra long range flights from Hawaii to Europe. The market has nearly no business traffic and while Europeans do visit Hawaii, it is not very high on list of destinations.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
je89_w
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RE: Europe To Hawaii Nonstop?

Tue Feb 17, 2004 4:27 pm

JL, NH, CI, PR, and KE are the only airlines that serve HNL from Asia. BR stopped flying to HNL for quite some time.
 
acidradio
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RE: Europe To Hawaii Nonstop?

Tue Feb 17, 2004 4:32 pm

I can't imagine an airline wanting to operate such a LONG sector to a low-margin destination. Europeans going to HNL (or really anybody for that matter) are going on vacation. Airlines would rather dedicate aircraft capable of such runs to more profitable routes with a fair percentage of business travellers.
Ich haben zwei Platzspielen und ein Microphone
 
HALFA
Topic Author
Posts: 1070
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 8:24 am

RE: Europe To Hawaii Nonstop?

Tue Feb 17, 2004 4:33 pm

Gerardo,
I work for Hawaiian Airlines and we operated charter flights for a European Charter company. This was back in 1988/89. We flew HNL-ANC-FRA-ZRH, using DC8-62's. There are some pictures on A'net in their photo database of our planes at the Frankfurt Airport. It brought back memories! The plane would continue on to MIA from ZRH, and our crew layover would be in ZRH for about 28 hours. We would wait for the plane to come back to ZRH from MIA and then take it back to FRA and then ANC.
I recall on several occasions having breakfast in the morning in ZRH before our flight, then having lunch at the FRA airport and then arriving in ANC in time for dinner and then deadheading to HNL on the same flight and arriving in HNL that very same evening in time for cocktail hour!
It was a looooooooooong day!
HFB,
I vaguely remember the event you are referring to. I don't believe LH had scheduled service here though. It would be nice if they did!
Hawaiian Airlines Since 1929...........
 
B6FA4ever
Posts: 753
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RE: Europe To Hawaii Nonstop?

Tue Feb 17, 2004 4:35 pm

Killerbabe:

yes...JAL, ANA, China Airlines, and Eva servce HNL...also Korean serves HNL as well. Philipine Airlines also serves HNL...BUT i'm not sure if its and actual flight HNL-MNL or if HNL is just a stop-over/fuel stop from LAX or SFO (not sure which city). anyone know?

it is sad that HNL is a "leisure" destination. honestly if it were a "business" stop it has one of the BEST locations in the world (though in the middle of the pacific)...but with the US westcoast, Asia, and oceania it would be a great business hub.

~B6FA4ever
 
maxfly
Posts: 73
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RE: Europe To Hawaii Nonstop?

Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:21 pm

I read that Lufthansa flew a test flight FRA-HNL-rr upon delivery of their A340-200s in the early 90s but that was about it afaik
markus
 
kalakaua
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RE: Europe To Hawaii Nonstop?

Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:32 pm

Many Europeans, I would believe, would love to vacation in Hawaii but the problem is that it's expensive and half-way across the world. So, their only option is to spend their time in the Carribeans like SXM.
Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion.
 
Blueskies
Posts: 58
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RE: Europe To Hawaii Nonstop?

Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:53 pm

While I could be made, I seriously doubt that there would be a market. As stated earlier, most Europeans prefer Far East to Hawaii, if they travel outside Europe for sun.

Myself, I went to Hawaii (for a conference) a couple of months ago, and frankly I would rank it way below Thailand etc as a holiday destination. Way too touristic for me.

Greetings,
Blueskies
 
LHR001
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Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:56 am

RE: Europe To Hawaii Nonstop?

Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:56 pm

Western Airlines used to fly Honolulu-Anchorage-London on the DC-10



LHR001
 
Bluewave 707
Posts: 2794
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RE: Europe To Hawaii Nonstop?

Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:17 pm

LH was planning a FRA-HNL non-stop back in the 90's when the A340 was to enter service, as a couple of people have mentioned. The Governor at the time was trying to court the LH, and the German tour industry to make Hawaii a more accessible destination. The flight was supposed to take around 13-14 hours, and that was taking the polar route.

Other's are right in saying that they can use airline alliances to get from Europe to Hawaii, though it may take a few stops along the way. And that, there are "tropical" destinations that are closer and cheaper. However, there tour companies here in Honolulu that cater to tourists from Hungary, Poland, Russia, Spain (and South & Central Americas), and Germany.

If there is not enough capacity to fill a 744, 772, or A340, an airline will pull the route, because they ain't making the money.
"The best use of your life will be to so live your life, that the use of your life will outlive your life" -- D Severn
 
LHR001
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RE: Europe To Hawaii Nonstop?

Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:23 pm

Wasnt BA looking at a LHR-HNL nonstop back in the early 1990's???


LHR001
 
B6FA4ever
Posts: 753
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 6:49 am

RE: Europe To Hawaii Nonstop?

Tue Feb 17, 2004 7:03 pm

I remember one of my red-eye flights from HNL-LAX on NW a few yrs back (i'm not a former NW employee by the way, just one of my leisure trips  Laugh out loud) that there was a german language FA on the flight and the PA's were done in both english and in german. wonder if there was a tour group on the flight cause i'm sure there isn't normally a german speaker on that type of routing.

~B6FA4ever
 
sk
Posts: 72
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RE: Europe To Hawaii Nonstop?

Tue Feb 17, 2004 9:47 pm

It is right that LH made the first and until today the only nonstop flight from Hawaii to Europe. This was the first Airbus 340-200 delivered to LH. But this flight was not done as a testflight for a new regular flight, it was a public relation thing. They invited the press to join on this flight. It was a kind of testflight too, because they wanted to know how if the computer works correct flying over the north pole. Don't remember exactly, why they had to test it or why this could not be tested before.
 
airNondo
Posts: 237
Joined: Sun May 14, 2000 2:09 pm

RE: Europe To Hawaii Nonstop?

Wed Feb 18, 2004 5:45 am

Blueskies, Just curious what island you went to?
Honolulu's pretty much just another mediocre city with a nice beach...way to 1950's style and over-touristed.
The real fruits of hawaii are lanai, kauai, etc...
 
gigneil
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RE: Europe To Hawaii Nonstop?

Wed Feb 18, 2004 5:52 am

Its a REAL stretch from most of Europe to HNL...

N
 
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Coronado990
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RE: Europe To Hawaii Nonstop?

Wed Feb 18, 2004 6:14 am

The French do not mind going half way around the world to see PPT Tahiti.
That flight is even further.

Bonanza Air Lines. The original BZ.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10380
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: Europe To Hawaii Nonstop?

Wed Feb 18, 2004 6:59 am

It's not that long a streach from Europe to Honolulu. It's the cost that's important. Hawaii would be competing with the likes of Thailand which is substantially cheaper. Europeans have a lot of vacation time but they make less money than we make in America. Distance is not the issue. Money is.
But the real reason why there won't be flights is what most posters have already said. Yields are low because there isn't enough business traffic to justify it.
 
ushermittwoch
Posts: 2617
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 10:18 pm

RE: Europe To Hawaii Nonstop?

Wed Feb 18, 2004 7:25 am

Europeans usually also only work one job. That's why we have "less" money and more time at hand.
Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Europe To Hawaii Nonstop?

Wed Feb 18, 2004 7:47 am

"Europeans usually also only work one job. That's why we have "less" money and more time at hand."

They have "less" money because they pay a hell of a lot more taxes, and are legally bound to a minimum vacation time that is often more than double the standard American amount. Because they have so much vacation time, and not so much money, they are more prone to spend time in the Mediterranean...hence the huge tour operations to that area. Southeast Asia and the Caribbean are also cheap, but farther alternatives. Hawai'i on the other hand, is far AND expensive, relatively, so there is little demand for nonstops to Europe. PPT (and Noumea for that matter) is different because it has very close ties to France, and so far the only connections between PPT and Europe are to Paris, on Air France or Air Tahiti Nui.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
ha763
Posts: 3201
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2003 5:36 pm

RE: Europe To Hawaii Nonstop?

Wed Feb 18, 2004 12:27 pm

LH did more than fly a proving flight between FRA-HNL. They actually flew the route with pax using the A320-200. LH flew the route for around a year and even planned to add a second flight. I can't post the articles here because they don't exist online, but these came from the Hawaii State Library newspaper database:

Publisher: HONOLULU ADVERTISER
Date: 1992 10 27
Title: LUFTHANSA PLANS NON-STOP, 1ST-EVER DIRECT FRANKFURT-TO-HON PASSENGER-CARRYING FLIGHT

Publisher: HONOLULU STAR-BULLETIN
Date: 1993 10 19
Title: GERMAN AIRLINE, LUFTHANSA, TO ADD EXTRA FLIGHT FROM FRANKFURT TO HON IN NOV '94
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Europe To Hawaii Nonstop?

Wed Feb 18, 2004 1:27 pm

I think Europeans want to vacation either at the Mediterranean resorts or at the Caribbean resorts because 1) it's cheaper and 2) it takes a lot less time to get there than flying to Hawaii.

Primarily, Hawaii as a tourist destination caters primarily to Americans (and somewhat lesser Canadians) from the US mainland and to the Japanese (don't forget there is a massive ex-patriate Japanese population in Hawaii).
 
Blueskies
Posts: 58
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: Europe To Hawaii Nonstop?

Wed Feb 18, 2004 5:11 pm

Airnondo,

I was in Maui Island. Granted, the Volcano was very nice, but still... well, I'm a big fan of Far Eastern cultures and countries anyway.

Greetings,
Blueskies
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Europe To Hawaii Nonstop?

Wed Feb 18, 2004 6:29 pm

LH did more than fly a proving flight between FRA-HNL. They actually flew the route with pax using the A320-200

What now? Frankfurt to Honolulu with an A320? Not likely.

Frankfurt to Honolulu with an A340-200, sure, but its still a stretch. 6400 nm is a long way for any B market airframe, especially against Pacific winds.

N
 
pilatusguy
Posts: 302
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 5:21 am

RE: Europe To Hawaii Nonstop?

Wed Feb 18, 2004 11:50 pm

If we're talking stretch-routes from Europe I think the market would be much prefer a flight to down under. i.e. FRA-PER should be doable on a A340-500, no?

Re the above - why do you think europeans have less money on hand? Call me stupid, but I don't get that one...
 
ha763
Posts: 3201
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RE: Europe To Hawaii Nonstop?

Thu Feb 19, 2004 8:41 am

My bad. It was supposed to say A340-200.
 
gerardo
Posts: 3372
Joined: Sun May 21, 2000 6:22 pm

RE: Europe To Hawaii Nonstop?

Fri Feb 20, 2004 3:57 pm

HALFA,

Thanks for your post (re: flights from HNL to ZRH) and sorry for my late answer!

I guess, these times of romantic flights, as you described, are gone .... :-(

Cheers
Gerardo
dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
 
USAFHummer
Posts: 10261
Joined: Thu May 18, 2000 12:22 pm

RE: Europe To Hawaii Nonstop?

Fri Feb 20, 2004 4:34 pm

"The French do not mind going half way around the world to see PPT Tahiti.
That flight is even further."

Correct me if Im wrong but the rationale for that has to do with cultural ties (however small they are)...Europe has no cultural ties to Hawaii whatsoever...

Greg
Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
 
HALFA
Topic Author
Posts: 1070
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 8:24 am

RE: Europe To Hawaii Nonstop?

Fri Feb 20, 2004 4:47 pm

USAFHummer,
Technically, Great Britain has "cultural" ties to Hawaii. British Captain James Cook discovered Hawaii in 1778 and several areas in the Hawaiian Island chain are named for him, as are several more areas in the vast Pacific region. New Zealand, Australia, and Alaska to name a few.
Hawaiian Airlines flight #9 from LAX has about 10% of the passengers onboard from connecting flights from LHR on VS and BA.

Aloha
Hawaiian Airlines Since 1929...........
 
ha763
Posts: 3201
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2003 5:36 pm

RE: Europe To Hawaii Nonstop?

Fri Feb 20, 2004 5:41 pm

To expand, many of the advisors of King Kamehameha were British and the Hawaiian Islands were once under the protection of the British. Because of the ties between Hawaii and Britian, King Kamehameha also commissioned the Hawaiian flag in 1816 which incorporates the Union Jack quite prominately in its design. This flag design still continues as the Hawaii state flag.

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