Boeing will sell no more passenger 747s and only a handful of 7E7s," according to Airbus Chief Commercial Officer John Leahy. In full flight after jetting across the world to tout Airbus's success in the commercial field, Leahy told ATWOnline that he would be very worried if he was Boeing: "Nobody is raising their hands for the 7E7." He also confidently predicted that the A330-200 will see the 7E7 off. "It [the 7E7] is certainly better than the 767 but we will not have to update our aircraft to compete," he claimed.

In an up-tempo presentation, Leahy predicted that the 747 will be out of production by the time the A380 enters service in 2006. "Why would you buy a 747 when the A380 has cash operating costs 17% below the 747 and COC per square meter of cabin 26% better than the 747?" Backing that claim, he was able to show that since the A380 was launched its backlog has climbed to 129 while Boeing's 747 backlog has shrunk from 77 to just 37.

Leahy said the A380 is on target and will meet all guarantees and dismissed suggestions that it is overweight. "Some customers have asked for more range and we have an optional nine-ton increase to 569 tons at a modest price," he said.

He also reminded the press that just 30 years after Airbus launched, it booked 54% of all orders by numbers, 67% by value and had 52% of deliveries last year. And to cap it off, Airbus, unlike Boeing, was able to announce an order at the show as Bangalore-based Air Deccan signed for seven A320s, five to be leased from Singapore Aircraft Leasing Enterprise and two directly ordered from the manufacturer, with two options as well.


http://www.atwonline.com/indexfull.cfm?newsid=3879


This Leahy guy, can't Boeing just buy him ?

Or shoot him....

 

Ooh puhleeze!!!   Bite your tongue Mlle Leahy!  

Time will tell, but John Leahy is hardly a reliable source of information on Boeing sales. While I would agree that the 747 may be nearing its end, his comments on the 7E7 are silly. Of course he is going to taught Airbus in such a matter, but his comments are mere suggestions that are hardly viable. In truth, it seems a bit foolish for him to be talking this way, but I guess loyalty is a good trait. I imagine he would say the A318 has been a huge success as well.

I was just thinking about a recent suggestion from Boeing that stated the 7E7 is "better positioned to meet market demand," than Airbus' A380. Of course Airbus says the exact opposite. In truth, I imagine the results will be more in the middle of both arguments with both new designs sharing reasonable success. At least, they aren't both designing a mega transport as was the case several years a go.

Call me crazy but Airbus has got ahead in a lot of ways by making "stupid" business decisions. Ofthe such as Iberia they have promised that they will fetch a certain amount of money if they try and sell their planes later on and if they dont receive such an offer, then Airbus will cover the difference. It will be brilliant for Airbus if it works and if it doesnt then Airbus will be headed for rough seas.

I'm no industry analyst, but it seems to me that the 767 (especially the -300) is widely used currently. The 7E7 seems poised to replace it for the markets it currently serves (while also having a longer range), while the A380 is introducing a completely new market (much the same way the 747 did). In my view, there is a good probability that both will be successful. And that is the way it should be.
~Vik

Well Mr. Leahy may try to woo people by telling them that nobody is raising their hands for the 7E7 but I'll give him a raise---except it will be the middle finger of both hands. Jesus business is ruthless yet so much fun....I'm sure that there is some truth in the development of the 7E7 or Boeing wouldn't be pursuing it. It's also kind of funny because the same statements Mr. Leahy made about the 747 in reference to the operating economics of the A380 will be true for the A330 in respect to the 7E7 (even though I do so love the A332....great aircraft) in a few years. I'll just take his comments with a grain of salt and a roll of the eyes.

Leahy  ..............he's starting to remind me of "Bagdad Bob".

"the A380 is not overweight" or
"Boeing will sell no more passenger 747s and only a handful of 7E7s,"

What's next?...

"Airbus will be building every passenger carrying aircraft in the world within 5 years" or
"the A380 will make money carrying 50 people"

Gawd, he makes me want to throw up.

Is the Aviation biz the right biz to be arrogant??

I think he is wrong, to compare the A380 and A330 to the 7E7 is wrong and thus he's blowing smoke...

There are talks about BAW replacing the B744 for 777's so that's the oposite direction of what Airbus predicts larger carriers will go...

Point to point or the same system that we always have traveled?

The future will tell us...

I think that there are quite a large number of airlines, that uses the 767, DC10, MD11, B757, A300, A310, B762 that will need to update, and that will not be done with an A380 or A330...

Boaz...

Leahy ..............he's starting to remind me of "Bagdad Bob".

That cracks me up. I heard on the radio last year that Baghdad Bob has a new position as the press secretary for the Detroit Tigers. "Your Detroit Tigers are #1" and "Your Detroit Tigers will win the world series this year."

Other than that, I think this Airbus guy is full of it. A little too overconfident don't you think?

He's in Marketing - its his job to hype his product and slag off the competition. Aerospace is no longer the arena of discreet gentlemanly cooperation and unspoken agreement - the days of admiring the other guy's technical genius or bravado went away when socialism died. Now its a business, a lethal cutthroat business with 2 giant enterprises fighting tooth and nail for every percentage of market share.

Nobody expects Mr. Leahy to say 'Oh bravo Boeing, jolly well done on that 7E7 - that'll give our boffins in Toulouse something to think about, what ?', and nor will Mr. Condit say 'Well gee, Airbus - that A330-200 is pretty nifty - how about you send over the blueprints and we see if we can't come up with some improvements ?'

Airbus is the last and greatest aerospace collaboration the world will ever see. And perhaps this is why.

But he could sound professional about it instead of sounding like a five year old.

He could have said something along the lines of, "we believe that the market for the 747 passenger aircraft is deplenished" and,

"the 7E7 does not seem to have a wide interest with airlines at this time".

Leahy just sounds like a spoiled brat when he makes a statement. It's the reason I love Airbus the aircraft but hate Airbus the company.

[Edited 2004-02-26 13:44:26]

John Leahy is a born salesman. He locks onto you with his intense blue eyes, waves his arms, leans forward to stress a point, and, mainly, talks, talks, talks about his product. For the past six years, this transplanted Yank has been giving Boeing big headaches by leading Europe's Airbus Integrated Co. into a neck-and-neck sales battle with the Seattle aviation giant.

http://www.time.com/time/europe/specials/ff/trip4/airbus.html


He always backs up his opinions with fast & impressive presentations ...

Boeing-nut

Re: He could have said something along the lines of, "we believe that the market for the 747 passenger aircraft is deplenished

Let's hope not - I don't think there's such a word as 'deplenished'. 'Depleted', possible, or 'diminished'. Perhaps a bit of US military yuckspeak crept in.

Sorry, being pedantic there - your point is still valid, you can slag off the competition without sounding like a participant in a schoolyard yo' mamma contest.

How much do you think it will cost Boeing to get him on board?

SMILE.

Quite simple-747 will only get a few new orders between now and 2006, when A380 enters ervice-it shouldn't take long to determine if it delivers on performance, if so-747 is done, if not 747 will get a reprieve on death sentence. (I think there is a chance of this).

Also I think with the 7E7 price comparable to 767-300ER-there will be very few orders of this plane, but Boeing 767 operators would naturally opt for this model in the near future-with a few defections to Airbus and there 332.

What a moron. The plane is still 5 years out. No one has money to spend right now anyway. What, like A-380 orders are flowing in by the hundreds???? Hell the A-380 is already in build out and they have yet to garnish enough orders to pay for the development costs.



[Edited 2004-02-26 15:30:10]

A versus B thread in disguise, that's all that this topic is.

A few months ago I remember hearing people shouting on this site giving out about Airbus 'handouts' because they were able to work on a new-build aircraft like the A380 and still have the money to develop bi-products of existing families such as the A318 and A340-500/-600.....now Boeing is doing exactly the same with the 7E7 and the 747 advanced and the quietness is eerie....

The same people used to brag about the fact that Boeing only had to upgrade the 737 series to compete with the technologically advanced A320 series.......is the possibility so far remote to them that Airbus will only have to do the same with the A330 to compete with the 7E7?

Someone mentioned to me that the only aircraft the 7E7 will replace is Boeing aircraft (and ex-Douglas), apart from a small number of older A300/A310 aircraft (excluding large no. of cargo A300's), therefore they are aiming to retain market share rather than increase it...i.e. they have more to lose than gain.....

Many happy days and years of endless discussions and arguments ahead.....

Regis is right.
But it is funny how Boeing's numbers that the 7E7 is SUPPOSED to have when it comes to performance are the TRUTH that cannot be questioned or doubted.
But somehow the A vs. B madness has to continue...

Several things about Mr. Leahy's comments. Since he's an Airbus salesman you expect him to predict doom and gloom regarding Boeing. He has also been known in the past to open his mouth without engaging his brain.

An example of this is when Aviation Week's David North test flew the A330-200. Mr. North spoke with Mr. Leahy about the A330-200 before the flight. Johnny boy pointed out the in business class the A330-200 had a 2-2-2 arrangement compared to the 777 2-3-2. This arrangement he said is preferred by the airlines over the 2-3-2 configuration. Now here's the kicker. He then went on to say that most airlines who buy the 777 order their aircraft with a 2-2-2 seating in business class. Those that do order the 2-3-2 end up changing to 2-2-2. According to John that is.

When I read this I nearly fell out of my chair. In actuality the vast majority of airlines that fly the 777 have a three class configuration have a 2-3-2 layout in biz class. Once those aircraft are delivered I assure you that no airline in their right mind is going to remove seats from business class.

David North in his article noted that he could not confirm the veracity of Mr. Leahy's comments. Sort of a diplomatic way of saying "I know he's mistaken but I'm not going to embarrass him by pointing this out. He might give me the cold shoulder the next time around if I do."

Ask any business passenger which they prefer a 2-2-2- cabin or a 2-3-2 cabin... nobody likes that middle seat! 2-3-2 came from the days of FJY operations - those days are long gone except on premier flagship routes. Carriers such as CO and DL have gone down the 2-2-2 route - with no middle seat.

**That cracks me up. I heard on the radio last year that Baghdad Bob has a new position as the press secretary for the Detroit Tigers. "Your Detroit Tigers are #1" and "Your Detroit Tigers will win the world series this year."**

Baghdad Bob works for Mike Illitch, there was even a picture of him in the Detroit Free Press wearing a Wings jersey

"The Detroit Redwings did not just get swept by the Anaheim Mighty Ducks in the 2003 playoffs"

I'll raise my hand for the 7E7...we have to understand that Mr. Leahy is a businessman/politician...the politician in him can be spotted by his remarks and flamebait against competitors...i.e.Boeing. But anyways, we all know that BOTH companies make great products and that it is farely tasteless for someone like Leahy to criticize and try to smack Boeing down...the company that has paved the way from Airbus to come up and be competitive.
Regards

Ummm... There will be no Airbus vs. Boeing type of threads anymore when Palestine are at peace with Israel. I'm sick and tired of people saying no A vs B type of threads, when in fact, that's the subject in anycase...   Deal with it. I hate it myself, but that's what it is. We were given an article that provoked us, so, we're here to comment. What am I supposed to say? I commend Leahy for his virtuous nature?  

It certainly sounds like an A v B thread, but the first I've read so far since joining.
I am a member of Boeing's 'Design Dream Tean' e-mail questionaaire and its pretty basic thoughts for such an 'all new aircraft'. It looks on the visual as a 767 with a 757's nose and a 777's wings. I like it! <>.
The A380 looks really ugly on the visual, but of course, I can't wait to see it face-to-face on an airbridge.
The A vs. B, though.. Airbus is manufacturing and providing real 'Air Buses', Boeing maintains the lead in providing real 'aeroplanes'.

In order of Excellence (imho)

1. Comet
2. 707-320 / SuperVC-10
3. 747-400
4. A340-600 / 777-300
5. 727-200
6. A319
7. Tu-154M
8. DC-10-30
9. DC-8-63
10. EMB-154
0. Concorde (of course!)

Thats my HK$0.002 of it.

Cheers!

p.s. - Anyone else see how much Thai are going to pay 'Superbrands International' to re-style their livery? I think you lot are having some effect here after the United debacle! Anyone want to try to design and submit it?

It's pretty hard for Boeing to secure orders/options/LoI's at the moment as most carriers in the US they are targeting are in a bit of a awkward finacial position, as either the shareholders or even the bankcruptcy judges have a very close eye on the airlines' fleet development, given that recent investments in the fleet (mass orders of i.e. 737-800s) take a lot from their current revenue now and in the years to come. Give it half a year and they will most likely have their final go-ahead orders, but right now it would be hard to sell any new aircraft orders to the board or the judges, while they are fighting hard to divert orders for the 737NG. It might help, if Boeing offers some kind of conversion offer for these orders.

The 767 replacement market may not be as big as everyone thinks - How many Domestic 762 and 763 operations will be replaced by 737 / A320 stlye operations that are currently on order? Do the CO's and DL's of this world need 767 widebody aircraft costs when reducing capacity may be the option. DL seem to be doing this on their trans-continental runs ex JFK to SFO and LAX - gone are the 767s - hello 738's... Hello extra frequencies.



[Edited 2004-02-26 16:51:57]

BestWestern:

It was not my intent to start a business class configuration debate. My point was that Mr. Leahy surfers from a bit of foot-in-mouth disease.

Since you brought up the subject I will once again point out that most 777 operators have a 2-3-2 configuration in business class. In addition if I'm not mistaken CAL and DAL ordered their 777 in a 2-2-2 biz class layout. They did not rip seats out of business class.

That middle seat must not be that big of a deal if airlines keep ordering 777 with a three seat middle row. Take AA 777 for example. There is so much space between rows in business class that you don't have to worry about crawling over someone if you have that middle seat. Now if the rows were packed in like they are in coach then it would be more of an issue.

Hey Spike,

I like No. 2 on that list (hence the user name!).

I hope and believe that both the 7E7 and A380 will be a success. It's clear they will both have a claim to different share of the market - the A380 on high density routes and the 7e7 on thinner routes. The industry needs two majors competing to continue to develop the industry. Just imagine a scenario where a company has a near monopoly on the aircraft industry....technological advancements would slow considerably and prices would more than likely climb. All genuine enthusiasts should agree - Boeing and Airbus need each other.

Well, Mr. Leahy is expected to say things like that as he works for Airbus. But his figures are not way out of line though! Although we would hate to see production of great planes like 747 stop, it could become a reality. Fact to the matter is, Boeing is in under intense competition from Airbus and they seem to be falling behind in this competition. Yesterday I was looking at airways or airliners magazine and read that in January Boeing delivered 28 aircrafts whereas Airbus delivered 42. I am quoting this figure to support my point, that’s all.

Spoken like a hardass Frenchman (no offense to our other frenchmen aboard the site).....this man has no idea what he's talking about, and he's touting an airframe that's never even flown, against a tried and proven 747 design.

Someone take this jerk out...please.

DeltaGuy

DeltaGuy:

actually Mr. Leahy is an American, a former Northrup executive believe it or not.

a former Northrup executive believe it or not.

Wow, and look where Northrop is today  

As most everyone else here has said, one cannot take John Leahy at his word - he is paid to promote his product at the expense of the competition. Afterall, is he honestly going to say "The 7E7 looks to be one damn fine aircraft and is scaring the hell out of us here at Airbus." Of course not. OTOH, he does seem to sound like a 5 year-old here. He could sound more professional, but that's just my opinion.

As to some facts:

"And to cap it off, Airbus, unlike Boeing, was able to announce an order at the show as Bangalore-based Air Deccan signed for seven A320s, five to be leased from Singapore Aircraft Leasing Enterprise and two directly ordered from the manufacturer, with two options as well."

Perhaps Mr. Leahy should be more familiar with his competition. Several years ago Boeing made it policy to not 'save' orders for airshows, and instead announce them (either publically or as UFOs) when the contract is signed. Thus, the order from WestJet for 7 737-700s was announced at the time of the order. I imagine Boeing is not too upset at not being able to announce an order at the show, since they currently have 14 orders w/ no cancellations for the year vs. 7 orders for Airbus w/ 2 cancellations. Of course, it is only February. . .

Netdhaka,

I don't know where the magazine you were looking at got its information, but January deliveries were 20 for Boeing, 18 for Airbus.

Regards,

Hamlet69

Well may be the current 744 can not compete with the A380. But airbus should be really be afraid because All what Boeing has to do is take the weakness and issues of the A380 (that will come) and simply fix and improve it with the all new FBW 745. It will be as simple as that and Boeing has the technology to do it.

I also think that now is not the Time for a new 747 as first of all Boeing needs to get the 7E7 flying which is a very good start. And I believe is needed in our market currently. Also Boeing needs to make sure that Airbus will not be able to comeback with an aircraft that would stand against the 747NG In short time. My point is if Boeing starts a 747NG project right now. What ever the advantage the 747NG will have can be implemented in the current A380 because the A380 is still in the designing level. Once the A380 flies and airline take delivery of it. Boeing at then can show or propose a 747 that is way cheaper to operate than the A380.

I truly hope that is how Boeing is thinking. Take it step by step and learn as much as you can before opening the project.

It will be as simple as that and Boeing has the technology to do it.

Indeed, but its not simple. Its a redesign of the aircraft.

What ever the advantage the 747NG will have can be implemented in the current A380 because the A380 is still in the designing level.

No. The A380 is in the production phase... its being built.

N

I don't care, I'll take Leahy anyday over Stonecipher.

Oh, good grief... is there any chance that subjects like this just might go away at some point? A manufacturer actually speculating that their main competitors new product will be a flop? Is that really something new for ANYONE around here???

So, Mr. Leahy used to work for Northrop - and, as JBirdAV8r mentioned, where is Northrop these days? Actually, I have no idea where Northrop is today - but Leahy works for Airbus now, and just look at where Airbus is right now.

Aside from that, yes, Mr. Leahy's comments seem... how do I put this... childish - but, to be realistic, it's really not as if Boeing's management has always only used "down to earth" formulations when talking about Airbus - so I'd say that both are about the same in that category as well... with Airbus more on the loud side at the moment, but - believe me - that's not always going to be that way.

Speculating if the 7e7 will be successful or not is about as realistic as speculating if the A380 will be overwheight - we'll know as soon as it's standing on it's feet: maybe it will, maybe it won't - maybe that'll influence sales, maybe it won't - maybe small winged creatures will carry me away into the land of dreams... well, you can probably imagine where I'm going with this.

So - Airbus "won" last year... maybe they'll "win" this year, maybe Boeing will: same goes for the success of the 7e7 and/or 380... as soon as anyone has their crystal ball up and running, we can get into discussions like this - but for now, I'd say that neither Mr. Leahy nor anyone around here has enough factual knowledge about the 7e7 to do anything else than speculate.

And, in the end, this simply comes down to A vs. B in yet another disguise.

Regards,
Frank

P.S.: I can already see the "if you don't like the topic, then don't read it" replies - but somehow I think that I'm not going to be the only one who's seen enough of these "the 7e7 will/will not be a success" threads - just as much as the "the 380 will/will no be a success", or "the 7e7/380/whatever is ugly", "what's the best looking airliner out there" or "what's the most ugly airliner out there"...

What do you expect him to say. I love the current/new Boeing offering, many airlines should purchase from them !

KEEJSE is always good for starting lame posts. Anything to promote his beloved Airbus.

This Leahy sounds like a bit of a blowhard who is trying to exaggerate his company's momentum in the marketplace. There has been no official confirmation that Boeing will discontinue the 747 and the 7E7 has only been on offer for a few weeks. Obviously, Airbus is trying to exaggerate Boeing's problems in an attempt to exaggerate his company's success.

Hey, Keesje, are you on Airbus's payroll, too? If not, you should demand compensation from them for parroting their PR line in this forum. You can't treat either makers' hype as gospel because it's always somewhat removed from reality. Have you not learned to take the word of a slick salesman with a grain of salt? Well, it applies here, too. My own take is that the 747 might well be out of production by the end of this decade if Boeing can't sell the proposed 'Advanced' model but I feel orders for freighters will trickle in over the next few years, keeping it going beyond 2006, anyway. And, as for the 7E7, it's a bad time to launch a new airplane since U.S. airlines are still in a slump but ultimately, if the 7E7 meets performance claims, I can't see how it won't be attractive, since better economics is what the airlines want. Orders for it might initially be slow in coming but should pick up as the U.S. airlines' health recovers. Plenty of carriers are looking at the 7E7; it's too early to say none are interested just because they haven't made a committment yet. It would be naive to think that a non-upgraded A330-200, as good as it is, won't have difficulty competing the 7E7 if it turns out to be as good as advertised. Obviously, Mr. Leahy can't say this, however. Last week, Boeing PR was being chided in here for statements about the 777-200LR's supposed advantages over the A340-500. Well, same deal HERE, folks.

Actually this article actually addresses why the 7E7 is where it is today:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/boeingaerospace/2001865512_boeingengine26.html

I think it is better to ignore Leahy's self-serving nonsense rather than use them as thread starters.

Not that he can't/won't change his mind... but following is a quote from Harry Stonecipher from the AW&ST interview that was printed in the Feb 16th edition:

AW&ST: Is there still a possibiliity of applying what you are learning on the 7E7 to a new version of the 747?

HS: I don't think so. We've studied the heck out of the big airplane market. Everybody got mad at us because we quit... We had a new 747 by ourselves that we cancelled in January 1997 because nobody could figure out how to make money out of it.

Yes, yes, Mr. Leahy's comments were a little offset.

PLEASE LET'S NOT START ANOTHER A vs. B war.

They are both very good aiplane companies.

Why can't we agree?

LMP737,

You're kidding me! A Northrup guy turned sour....terrible.

Thanks for the gouge though.

DeltaGuy 

What do you expect him to say. I love the current/new Boeing offering, many airlines should purchase from them !

Not at all. We are expecting more professionalism. Peroid.

hmmmmm, looks like Baghdad Bob got a new job in Toulouse.  



Nobody is raising their hand for the infidel 7E7! Boeing will choke our rivers with their dead! The cowards will crumble and flee, Allah be praised!

B4e-Forever New Frontiers