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industrybuff
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Posts: 313
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 9:36 am

Jetstar - Not A New Airline

Sun Feb 29, 2004 9:03 am

Anybody who regulary posts here who knows a thing or too about Aus aviation will know that JETSTAR is a rort.

Jetstar is NOT a new airline
Jetstar is a reborn of Impulse (now Qantaslink)

Before Jetstar commences ops, if you fly on a qantaslink 717 to Hamiton Island, Gold Coast, Maroochydore etc - you will fly for roughly the same fare, on the same aircraft, in the same seat, with a qantas meal (mostly snack box but also full hot meals) and will earn the usual 1000 Qantas points or actual points flown.

When jetstar comes the 717 will be reconfigured to seat a larger pax load, gone are the included meal, no more qantas FF points are earned, and all for around the same price as these flyers are currently paying for all the above !

WHO WINS - QANTAS DOES

WHAT A RORT !

Good on you Geoff Dixon - you have succeeded in creating Jetstar to ween people off accumulating so many QF FF miles and lets not forget business people do still serve these markets - business is still done in these ports Qantas calls "LEISURE"

Well Done !
 
yvr1968
Posts: 279
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2004 6:27 am

RE: Jetstar - Not A New Airline

Sun Feb 29, 2004 9:10 am

Hey there

My partner and I have just booked a few trips on Qantas "code-share" flights that are actually Jetstar flights. Do you know if those flights will qualify for AA Advantage miles? I have had trouble getting an answer about that.

 
Akumas
Posts: 423
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 4:53 pm

RE: Jetstar - Not A New Airline

Sun Feb 29, 2004 9:57 am

Hi.

YVR1968, you should visit the Jetstar site and look for the FAQs.

The site is located here: http://www.jetstar.com/
 
industrybuff
Topic Author
Posts: 313
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RE: Jetstar - Not A New Airline

Sun Feb 29, 2004 10:07 am

YVR1968

NO codeshare flights will earn points operated by Jetstar

Sorry, but im sure you will enjoy the Jetstar experience

Happy Flying !
 
Akumas
Posts: 423
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 4:53 pm

RE: Jetstar - Not A New Airline

Sun Feb 29, 2004 10:15 am

Any word on when they will begin flying to Perth? Will it be when they receive their first A320?
 
nickofatlanta
Posts: 1280
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 1:06 am

RE: Jetstar - Not A New Airline

Sun Feb 29, 2004 12:41 pm

I think you should earn AA miles for your JetStar flight as long as you are booked using the QF flight number. According to their web-site, QF code-shares on their flights, but only for their international passengers and frequent flyer redemptions. Please let us know if you do indeed receive the miles.
 
sllevin
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Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 1:57 pm

RE: Jetstar - Not A New Airline

Sun Feb 29, 2004 1:09 pm

I think you should earn AA miles for your JetStar flight as long as you are booked using the QF flight number.

I don't believe so. Now, it's true that you'll earn AA miles on any flight that you are booked on an AA flight number -- but the same does not apply for partner codeshares, I don't believe.

Steve
 
Sydscott
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Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2003 11:50 am

RE: Jetstar - Not A New Airline

Mon Mar 01, 2004 7:57 am


Industrybuff - You can always fly the competition to these ports if you dont like Jetstar. But wait, they dont offer free meals or Business Class either. You get what you pay for.
 
lauda777
Posts: 160
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2003 9:17 pm

RE: Jetstar - Not A New Airline

Mon Mar 08, 2004 2:59 pm

I have to agree with Industrybuff's original post, so why don't they just cut the crap and call it Impulse2?  Insane
 
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solnabo
Posts: 5025
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:53 am

RE: Jetstar - Not A New Airline

Mon Mar 08, 2004 4:12 pm

I got a aviationmagazine from 1994 with Jetstar A320 taking off in Sydney...
reborn airline  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Michael//SE
 
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solnabo
Posts: 5025
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:53 am

RE: Jetstar - Not A New Airline

Mon Mar 08, 2004 5:42 pm

Wrong airline!!!
The name was Flitestar, guess it was/is a UScarrier....
Mea Culpa Embarrassment

Michael//SE
 
industrybuff
Topic Author
Posts: 313
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 9:36 am

RE: Jetstar - Not A New Airline

Mon Mar 08, 2004 5:52 pm

sydscott seemed to miss my point totally

customers used to fly Qantas and get all the associated Qantas benefits
nw they are flying the same planes (initially 717's) with the SAME Impulse/Air Connex cabin crew in a different uniform with NO FF PoiNTS, MEALS or Assigned seats.

Yes Jetstar is having open seating similar to that on EasyJet. And 5 kgs of hand luggage, and a first for a domestic Aus airline - light closes to ALL PAX (checked bag or not) 30 mines before departure... no interlining with QF - if you travel QF PER/OOL via SYD you take QF to SYD then Jetstar to OOL. Expect to claim your baggage in sydney and recheck at a seperate terminal for Jetstar flight.

So you see sydscott - My original post makes total sense !

cheers
 
QANTASforever
Posts: 5791
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2001 6:03 am

RE: Jetstar - Not A New Airline

Mon Mar 08, 2004 5:58 pm

Industrybuff -

FF points on domestic routes are not a right - they are part of a larger business framework geared toward making a profit.

It might be a raw deal for business pax, but unfortunately life's not fair. Still, if enough people don't like it then QF/JS will change the system. But as it stands at the moment, I doubt people will turn away from Qantas in droves because they don't get FF points on a $50 flight from Sydney to Melbourne.

QFF
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15079
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RE: Jetstar - Not A New Airline

Mon Mar 08, 2004 6:05 pm

Michael - re : The name was Flitestar, guess it was/is a UScarrier

Flitestar was a South African domestic carrier that started up in 1991 (IIRC), by Trek Airways, who also ran pseudo-Luxembourgois carrier Luxavia. Flitestar operated A320's between JNB, DUR and CPT, just after SA domestic flights were deregulated - SAA put it out of business in a couple of years though, it may even have been quicker.
 
airbear
Posts: 609
Joined: Tue May 29, 2001 9:27 pm

RE: Jetstar - Not A New Airline

Mon Mar 08, 2004 7:02 pm

Hear are some comparisons between Jetstr and Virgin Blue...

Neither will give FF points, both will sell food & drink, both will match each othes fares. Now, look at this. Once J'star is up and running...

1) Seat pitch will be 76cm on Jstar and 81cm on VB (assuming they don't change anything).
2) VB will assign you a seat at check in, so if you want an aisle or window, you wil have a reasonable chance of geting what you want. Jstar won't ... you take your chances.

So for the same money, why the heck would anybody - especially ex-QF FF's -fly Jetstar. I hope the thing dies the swift death it deserves.
 
industrybuff
Topic Author
Posts: 313
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 9:36 am

RE: Jetstar - Not A New Airline

Mon Mar 08, 2004 8:00 pm

A snipit of information for you - Jetstar received 28,000 applications for employment on their recruitment website.

 
Air Taiwan
Posts: 1498
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 3:06 pm

RE: Jetstar - Not A New Airline

Mon Mar 08, 2004 8:14 pm

Didnt hear anyone complain when Virgin replaced Ansett~!!

Industrybuff, just go to DJ (yes, Virgin Blue) if you don't like Jetstar.

Airbear, Do you see Virgin matching JQ (yes, Jetstar's IATA code) on the SYD/BNE to Melbourne flights at $59 one way? Oh and before you start, the bus fare between Avalon and Mel city is the same as the ones from Tullamarine to the city, and it's only about 10~15min longer. And the small sized Avalon airport might mean a few minutes faster when it comes to baggage handling and shorter strolls inside the terminal!

Jimmy
 
airbear
Posts: 609
Joined: Tue May 29, 2001 9:27 pm

RE: Jetstar - Not A New Airline

Tue Mar 09, 2004 10:30 am

Air Taiwan / Jimmy ... VB have already said that they will match any JQ fare. Period. As for Avalon, I actually said nothing about that in my post, because it isn't a real option. Aside from the fact that there is really no infrastructure in place at Avalon for either ground transport and/or RPT air ops, I was down there last week, driving from Melb. city, to see customers my in Geelong. There is no way that the drive to/from Avalon is just 10-15 mins. longer than that from Tulla to the city. And that was in light traffic conditions.

In any case, when I said MEL, I meant Tulla to which I believe all JQ flts will eventually move. I doubt very much that Avalon will be a long-term thing. Hazelton tried a service from Sydney to Avalon a few years ago, at the wishes of the Geelong business community. It lasted only a short time, as it didn't pay.

Aside from that, my post was all about the direct comparisons in service & comfort between JQ & DJ.
 
Sydscott
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Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2003 11:50 am

RE: Jetstar - Not A New Airline

Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:42 pm

"So you see sydscott - My original post makes total sense !"

I never said your post didn't make sense. I merely pointed out that you now get what you pay for. If you want Frequent Flyer Points then make sure you are flying with QF. If you are flying with Jetstar/DJ then you wont.

Basically Jetstar and DJ are the same, but then there is a worldwide trend for lower and lower airfares. If people expect that then they must expect to lose some of the benefits of a full service carrier.

"customers used to fly Qantas and get all the associated Qantas benefits"

Thats very true. But now they dont Industry and its a fact of life. The people demand lower airfares and if you want to buy an airfare for the same price as a bus ticket then you must expect the same amount of benefits that you would get on the bus. That is the market that Jetstar is catering to.

I re-iterate my original point, you only get what you pay for.
 
airbear
Posts: 609
Joined: Tue May 29, 2001 9:27 pm

RE: Jetstar - Not A New Airline

Tue Mar 09, 2004 1:13 pm

Hi Sydscott. What you say above is very true. That is the market that VB & Jetstar are catering for. My only concern with Jetstar, is that it will in fairly short time, totally replace the existing QF Domestic, leaving no alternative for those of us who ARE willing to pay more for some level of comfort, and who want the FF points/tier creds, to make our QF/oneworld O/S travel easier.

As it is, immediately Jetstar begins ops, there will be no full-service alternative on routes like SYD-OOL; SYD-MCY; BNE-MKY; BNE-ROK, and so it goes on. All the press comments point to the conversion of mainline QF Domestic to LCC. Very sad.

Through these last few years, QF has managed to make fantastic profits (by world airline standards) with things AS THEY ARE. QF management needs to look at it this way... OK, nationally, VB has a 32% market share, and fr'instance on the route SYD-MEL, VB has a roughly 40% market share. So what! All that means, is that QF is still capturing a whopping 60% of the market that IS satisfied with the existing product. For the sake of added shareholder value (...and to hell with the paying customers...), QF is "fixing" something that "ain't broken".

 
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ClassicLover
Posts: 5312
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RE: Jetstar - Not A New Airline

Tue Mar 09, 2004 1:28 pm

Hello people!

I have an alternate opinion on Jetstar. I don't believe there is anything sinister going on - Qantas needed to create a separate airline in order to compete with Virgin Blue, and they are doing that.

Thus far, the decisions they've been making have been correct - look at Australian Airlines.

I reckon we'll see some things change on some routes, but the gloom and doom of losing our full service Qantas domestic entirely just won't happen. The reason for this is that Qantas is a major international airline - and to just code share on Jetstar for example isn't going to look good to an international First Class passenger flying domestically, is it?

They need to keep the full-service domestic product for that reason and also because they're the only ones providing this in Australia. As such, they have 100% of the full service market, and I imagine they'd want to keep it.

Besides, business passengers are used to companies picking up the expense and getting Frequent Flyer points for it - I can't see Qantas cutting these passengers loose deliberately.

Cheers,

Trent.
 
Sydscott
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Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2003 11:50 am

RE: Jetstar - Not A New Airline

Tue Mar 09, 2004 2:42 pm


Airbear - Jetstar wont entirely replace the QF mainline service. As I have said in many posts before, Jetstar is a massive industrial relations play by QF management to once and for all force changes to the way its pilots and flight attendants deal with the airline. QF can pay a Jetstar pilot about 2/3's of what it pays a mainline 737 pilot. Thats a massive saving that will put pressure on the mainline unions to moderate their wages/benefits rises and force them to be more productive. You wont see QF disappear from SYD/MEL/BNE/PER/ADL services but everywhere else should be ready for the inevitable downgrading or withdrawl of QF services. Mainline QF services will only be flown on current Cityflyer routes and that will be all. That is the way the entire industry is heading, the lowest common denominator is winning and there is nothing we can do about it. Either QF caters for this market or it'll lose more marketshare to DJ.

You only get what you pay for and the majority of people dont want to pay very much. You can't expect to pay peanuts and get FF miles, lounge access etc etc it's simply not commercial.

Airbear I'm a regular flyer on Cityflyer services between Sydney and Perth and I too am willing to pay that bit extra to get the frequent flyer miles, free upgrades etc. But most people aren't.

Classic - Australian is a way different proposition to Jetstar. Australian was founded to fill a niche at QF for a low cost, tourist based operation to serve routes that QF found marginal at best. It wasn't founded to specifically take passengers from the mainline operation or compete against another carrier. It's purpose is to maintain a QF group presence in marginal international markets and to develop new routes for QF to takeover when passenger volume and yield justify it.

Jetstars purpose is to move passengers from QF's mainline operation to an LCC so it can lower its cost base against DJ. Its aimed at the Greyhound Bus section of the Australian market rather than Japanese tourists heading for Queensland.
 
TBCITDG
Posts: 851
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RE: Jetstar - Not A New Airline

Tue Mar 09, 2004 2:51 pm

I doubt very much that there wil no longer be a full service option offered by QF in the coming years. Sure it may be attracetive in terms of labour costs etc, but the other way in which QF is seeing to a reduction in labour costs is the implementation of casuals,part time etc etc as opposed to hiring thousands of "full time" crew.
These things are taking place right now.
The reason that JetStar was created was to cap DJ'S current market share, not to savage the arline or to savage it's sister's QF Domestic Airline.
Dixon would not be stupid enough to kill a product that is still very much successfull even though some air fares cost more, and the product that they offer on board costs twice as much as the domestic rival.
How many "Chariman Lounge" members would be happy to fly JetStar (NONE), how many business exec's would be happy to do the same? (NONE)
How many AA/BA/LA/CX codeshare partners would be happy to send their First Class clients on JetStar? (NONE)

Sometimes I really do not get some people. First they complain that there is not enough cometition, now, they complain that QFDomestic will fold?!?!?
Make up your mind.

Airbear: Try not to compare arilines taht have yet even started to opertae. The damn plane has not even taken off and you are already on the offensive. We can all tell how "non biased" you are in this thread. To tell you the truth, I have given DJ lots of chances. Still waiting to get that window seat!! I'll let you know when that happens.
 
airbear
Posts: 609
Joined: Tue May 29, 2001 9:27 pm

RE: Jetstar - Not A New Airline

Tue Mar 09, 2004 3:02 pm

Sydscott... OK, even if QF mainline is eventually restricted to the main southern/western cities, they know very well that places like CNS, TSV, DRW to name some obvious ones, have significant business & govt. traffic, esp. from places like SYD, CBR, MEL, BNE. CNS also gets a lot of very high-income domestic & international types, who will not be wanting to squash into 76cm of leg space.

I believe it is more than an IR play.

 
industrybuff
Topic Author
Posts: 313
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 9:36 am

RE: Jetstar - Not A New Airline

Tue Mar 09, 2004 3:50 pm

honestly what starts out as a normal thread turns into this  Sad

Everyone is entitled to their opinion - if you dont work in the industry of work for QF - your opinions are just that - until any confirmation comes to light.
Industry insiders are always told things first under the banner of confidentiality,

So, most of your comments have merit (little from sydscott as he really did miss my point totally until about 10 posts later when it was pointed out that Jetstar means that business pax used to the frills on BNE/ROK//MKY and SYD/MCY routes etc WONT GET THEM ANYMORE !)

The Fares on Jetstar are not that much different from what QF is charing now !

I just did an availability check SYD/OOL 11 June - 2 months away cheapest seat was $119 and thats two months in advance ... PLE-LEAZE thats not LCC to me. Qantas has cut back to two poor 737-300 a day on that route cheapest seat on the said date was $131 .... you see what I mean !

So, opinions aside - Welcome to Jetstar - the supposed low cost carrier and welcome to an interesting next 12 months in Australia's aviation - Im pleased to be an industry employee and cant wait for it all to unfold !

Cheers

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