IslandHopperCO
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America West Dumping 737-300s But Keeping -200s?

Wed Mar 31, 2004 8:44 am

Just read this on the Mojave newsgroup:

>Ex-America West B737-300 N150AW [23218], previously stored at
Goodyear, has been delivered to Pace Airlines. Ferried GYR-INT as PCE4150 on
19Mar-2004.

Yet, it still has a sizeable fleet of -200s that are going strong.


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Why would they unload a newer -300 when they still have old gas guzzler -200s? Perhaps this -300 was leased and the -200s are owned. I also find it odd that AW is unloading some of its 757s while still taking delivery of new ones. Lease returns again?

Anyone have info on this odd fleet strategy?
 
DeltaMD11
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RE: America West Dumping 737-300s But Keeping -200s?

Wed Mar 31, 2004 9:07 am

Ship 150 was stored, and apparently sold outright. America West's 737-200 fleet is dwindling ever so slowly. They don't have that many of them still chugging around. So why would they unload a -300? Maybe they don't need the capacity and thus the reason it was in storage. As for the 75's, they just renewed the leases on their fleet not to long ago. I don't know of any changes made within the 757 fleet. Could you elaborate on that?
Too often we ... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. - John Fitzgerald Kennedy
 
flyboyaz
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RE: America West Dumping 737-300s But Keeping -200s?

Wed Mar 31, 2004 9:14 am

I'm not sure about the -300, but the -200's are being retired by the end of the year. I'm unclear as to how many will be left but I believe they are dumping them all by year's end. We are having more Airbus delivered that will fill in the gap left by the -200 departures. At the end of this year we will have 1 less aircraft than we did last year, but have more capacity due to the larger planes being delivered.
Catch a ride on a smile!
 
ASTROJET707
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RE: America West Dumping 737-300s But Keeping -200s?

Wed Mar 31, 2004 9:15 am

Did HP acquire their B733's new? I flew on an HP B733 last week from DFW to PHX. The cabin looked mighty old and worn. I was in seat 11C(emergency) and the legroom was vast. I hope I can connect on an HP B732 before they are retired.

ATROJET707
 
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asuflyer05
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RE: America West Dumping 737-300s But Keeping -200s?

Wed Mar 31, 2004 9:17 am

If I had to guess, it is probably a combination of lease terminations and the fact that they are taking delivery of a handful of A320/A319s this year.

I can't imagine a 733 is more fuel efficient than a 732 to the extent that it warrants a payment.

Just fuel for the fire.

 
flyboyaz
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RE: America West Dumping 737-300s But Keeping -200s?

Wed Mar 31, 2004 10:08 am

America West did acquire many new 737 built specifically for them. All the models ending with G7, the HP Boeing code, were made for HP. We did however acquire many used models during expansion spouts.

The interiors are very worn as far as I'm concerned. They did recover the seats to match the fabric in the Airbus planes, but we have not made it a priority like CO does with theirs....to make the planes look brand new.
Catch a ride on a smile!
 
as739x
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RE: America West Dumping 737-300s But Keeping -200s?

Wed Mar 31, 2004 10:12 am

Getting more 757's? Thats news to me. I did not know HP had more coming or they were retiring some. Maybe some of the AZ locals can clarify this.....

ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
Guest

RE: America West Dumping 737-300s But Keeping -200s?

Wed Mar 31, 2004 10:28 am

"Getting more 757's? Thats news to me."

News for me too, anyone know anything as to if this is true?
 
Guest

RE: America West Dumping 737-300s But Keeping -200

Wed Mar 31, 2004 10:31 am

Thank you for the picture in the thread starter. I had forgotten what a 737-200 looked like
 
flyboyaz
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RE: America West Dumping 737-300s But Keeping -200s?

Wed Mar 31, 2004 10:34 am

No we aren't getting any more 757's....wouldn't be suprised if they all of a sudden we did, but I doubt it. We extended the leases on the one's we currently have, to expire around 2008. They are still unsure what will happen to the planes when the leases are up.
Catch a ride on a smile!
 
737Captain
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RE: America West Dumping 737-300s But Keeping -200

Wed Mar 31, 2004 10:52 am

I realize that flyboyaz just said HP was not receiving anymore 757's, but I sat next to a couple HP airbus pilots on the employee bus a week ago here in PHX, and one of the F/O's in the group said that he just flew with one of the chief pilots and that the chief pilot said they were in the process of negotiating to get some more 757-200's, and possibly some 300's. Now this is all rumor, but who knows? It may happen. Hopefully sometime in the near future Smile Also, I was under the assumption that HP was going to wait for delivery of their A318's to replace the 737-200s, I guess I was wrong, as usual  Smile
cheers
"Why do you insist on man-pawing the glareshield everytime you climb up here?!"
 
Guest

RE: America West Dumping 737-300s But Keeping -200s?

Wed Mar 31, 2004 10:57 am

"Also, I was under the assumption that HP was going to wait for delivery of their A318's to replace the 737-200s, I guess I was wrong, as usual"

I dont think you will see the A318 in HP's fleet. Parker is not impressed by it and I think he will eventually turn them into options for 319/320's.
 
HPCMHPHX
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RE: America West Dumping 737-300s But Keeping -200s?

Wed Mar 31, 2004 11:28 am

The A318 is not going to happen at HP. I had heard about six months ago that the order was changed to the 320/319 option. It took a while, but they finally have stopped advertising the 318 in the AWA in-flight mag.
 
kevin752
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RE: America West Dumping 737-300s But Keeping -200s?

Wed Mar 31, 2004 11:54 am

I hope that HP keeps the 737-300 for awhile. Those planes are my favorite. I do agree with the people saying that they are a bit worn inside. I HP will be getting the A318's in 2006. I saw them in thier inflight magazine a few moths ago when I flew HP186 LAX - LAS.
"Keep Climbing"
 
AirT85
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RE: America West Dumping 737-300s But Keeping -200s?

Wed Mar 31, 2004 12:09 pm

Is it just me or does America West have one of the most unique and goodlooking liveries around?

I remember HP cancelled their A-318 orders (or, I should say, converted them) but what happened to reports they were looking at the A-321?

-Tony
Why would God make us all so different, if He wanted us to be the same?
 
Guest

RE: America West Dumping 737-300s But Keeping -200s?

Wed Mar 31, 2004 12:18 pm

"HP will be getting the A318's in 2006. I saw them in thier inflight magazine a few moths ago when I flew HP186 LAX - LAS"

The 318 is no longer in the inflight magazine and you wont be seeing them in 2006.

"but what happened to reports they were looking at the A-321?"

The 321 does not have the performance for PHX/LAS operations and would be weight restricted and HP has no interest in the current 321 models. Thats why the 757's are hanging around so long as Airbus does not have a model that is equal to the performance of the 757 in PHX/LAS ops.

Doug Parker is less Airbus pro then Franke was and Parker has not ruled out future orders from Boeing. I would not be surprised to see a Boeing order at one point in the future.
 
flyboyaz
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RE: America West Dumping 737-300s But Keeping -200s?

Wed Mar 31, 2004 2:34 pm

It would be great if we got some more 757's. They certainly are useful in the system and would help our expansion plans. They are always moving the 57 around to different markets and generally it fills up. The Florida flights are packed!

Catch a ride on a smile!
 
flyboy7974
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RE: America West Dumping 737-300s But Keeping -200s?

Wed Mar 31, 2004 5:51 pm

the 737-300 a/c that hp is getting rid of are high cost leases that they signed when in need of a/c, the 737-200 i am told are owned outright, and although costly, the last 7 in the fleet will be gone at the rate of 1 a month, so buy summertime, the-200 should be gone. as mentioned above, two notes about hp and their airbus fleet. while very happy with the 319 and 320, hp was not impressed at all with the performance of the 321. mainly due to hot/high conditions, the 321 could not perform like the 757 in the desert heat, ask any us agent about this and their nightmares with the 321 on flights to pit, phl, and clt. same thing with the 318, originally thought to be the replacement for the 737-200 due to pax load and greater range, the 318 has not been performing to specs. playing devil's advocate, i have heard that frontier is exstactic about their 318, but hp was not. i think long ago hp knew they would be flying coast to coast n/s, and i am told the 318 cannot do this. also remember, if suited, the 737-300 can fly n/s cross country. long ago, hp use to fly 737 from their las and phx hubs n/s to the east, i was on one on a night flight from bwi to las, i think it was hp flight 301 on a 737-300 years ago, but i might be wrong about that flight number, i just remember it came in from cmh/mdw before turning around for las. some of their 737-300 have the long range fuel tanks added to the a/c. on a completely other note, all crj 900 a/c are going all coach immediatley. the 11 new crj900 that mesa has arriving by may for hp are already all coach, and the older ones that did have F are being reconfigured.
 
flyboyaz
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RE: America West Dumping 737-300s But Keeping -200s?

Thu Apr 01, 2004 1:58 am

I have to agree about the performance of the 757. It does very well in the hot operation of PHX/LAS. The one's we currently have however are old and worn out. I am absolutely in favor of getting new or newer 757's and even the -300.

I know that in years past we have used the 737 for longer flights. When I was in PHX we had a flight to DTW that was a 733. I also know that US used to fly 734's to PHX from the east coast.

Mesa has stopped selling FC seats on all flights...some of the Freedom flights still show it available. We haven't gotten any planes without the FC cabin in them yet so we seat anyone up there and treat it likes it's coach...only more cushy..hehe. I know on the short hop TUS-PHX, our elite pax won't mind not having FC, but we are using these planes on long flights too....have to wait and see how that turns out. It will add an extra 6 seats, which is nice, but in TUS we still will be oversold!!
Catch a ride on a smile!
 
dutchjet
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RE: America West Dumping 737-300s But Keeping -200s?

Thu Apr 01, 2004 6:36 am

Re the 733s - I think that America West is retiring 733s as their leases expire; the plan is to eliminate the 732 from the fleet first, but if a 733 lease expires, that particular aircraft will go first. Its simply what makes the most sense financially.

Re the 757s and 753s - I think that the America West 757s will remain in the fleet for quite a while; as mentioned above, the leases have been extended and the A321 is not the right aircraft to replace the 757 on its missions out of PHX. With the 757 going out of production, America West has missed its opportunity to replace their older 757s with new ones. Maybe AA would be interested in selling the ex-TWA 757 fleet to America West, as those aircraft are rather new? Also unlikely, America West flies RR powered 757s and the TW examples have PW engines.

This raises a very interesting issue: there are over 1,000 757s out there ranging from 0 to 20 years old.......and there is really nothing available to directly replace it. The 739 and A321, while good aircraft, cannot replace the 757 on all missions. (The same can be said of the A300 which was never directly replaced.) The 757 program was cancelled due to lack of demand at the present time, but what about 10 years from now? Will a market redevelop for a medium range 200 seat airliner?
 
desertjets
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RE: America West Dumping 737-300s But Keeping -200s?

Thu Apr 01, 2004 6:47 am

There are enough fairly young 2nd hand RR-powered 757s out there to meet America West's needs. I am thinking of all those ex-National birds, which were originally supposed to be BA birds. I would imagine that many of these aircraft are still looking for a good home.

America West's 737-300 fleet has a mix of new build -3G7s and a bunch of bastard planes too. A lot of the 737-300s were picked up from AWAS (customer code 3A I believe) in the late 80s during the brief flirtation with Ansett, I am pretty sure they were new builds at the time.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
 
737Captain
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RE: America West Dumping 737-300s But Keeping -200

Thu Apr 01, 2004 6:48 am

I do know in regards to YV jets, currently the only 900 in the fleet with no first class is aircraft 916, which was very recently delivered, so that is confusing that they no longer are selling first class seats on those a/c, unless they are going to convert all 15 or 16 jets very quickly, but I don't think it is very easy to convert that many jets in a day or two, I guess that is a lot of lost revenue, but awesome for nonreving. YV is sending all the freedom 700's to United, and all the 900's will be soon converted to 86 pax configuration with no first class. I totally agree with Flyboyaz that it is good to have the extra seats, but totally stinks that we have to lose the first class, a big disadvantage on the longer flights in those a/c ie. PHX-YVR etc.
cheers  Smile
"Why do you insist on man-pawing the glareshield everytime you climb up here?!"
 
av8rphx
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RE: America West Dumping 737-300s But Keeping -200s?

Thu Apr 01, 2004 7:55 am

I happened to be down on the ramp yesterday and notice that A/C 916 had "operated by Mesa Airlines" on it not Freedom Airlines. Seems they are trying to remove the Freedom titles quickly. I can see HP maybe leasing 2 or 3 more 752's but not many more than that. A 753 in HP colors would be nice tho. Just my $.02
 
futureatp
Posts: 195
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RE: America West Dumping 737-300s But Keeping -200s?

Thu Apr 01, 2004 10:33 am

About the 757s:

I have been told that we were approached by boeing to lease the ex National birds. Instead we renewed the leases on the 75s we currently have at a real good rate. Irony, One moring I seen a Pace 757(ex National) sitting at HP's PHX gate B14 awaiting a sports charter. At Gate A13 was N908AW going empty to LAS to replace another 57 that went down on MX.

Off topic but interesting, I remember reading someones post a few months ago regarding a clause in the 757 leases. They stated that we are not allowed to fly them internationaly. That statement is incorrect. I can tell you for a fact they have (were) been going to Los Cabos and Puerto Vallarta for the spring break season. The theme planes are suppoesed to go to standard colors when they are due. Arizona, Cardinals, and Nevada (ships 901, 908, 915) look bad and need new paint, whether they are kept in the theme colors or repainted in std. colors, I dont care, they just need paint. Also something needs to be done with Ohio(905AW). It needs to be painted to match the cowling (passenger side) of engine #2 which has been going around for 2 months in green paint.

About the 737s:

I was told in January that the -200s were supposed to be going at the rate of one per month. At the time we had seven. As of last week we still had seven. However, monday I noticed N187AW was not on the schedule. Dont know if it was pulled or just MX.

I believe 150AW has been out for some time. I have never seen it in my three months at HP.

I know the 737s will be around for some time. We have 37 -300s in active service right now. January, gate A1 in PHX t4 caught fire. It was a 737 only gate. After repairs, and being reopened, it still is a 737 only gate. In fact we have at least 4, I think 6, 737 only gates in PHX. The fact that they didnt convert one to handle an Airbus when the opportunity came up tells me something. There was some debate as to convert it or not. On the flip side, gates A26,A28,A29,and A30 are Airbus only.

Now, this should get some people talking. RUMOR was that boeing approached HP to buy out the leases on our Airbus's and sell us 737NGs. This rumor ran around for a week in January, and I was quite surprised that it dindnt find its way on here. The same source that told me about the proposal, made a phone call to his supervisor, and told me it was not going to happen because Airbus has one or two on our board of directiors. I think the proposal was made, but was shot down. I dont know, I am not that familiar with our board and its relation with airbus.

We will have added 4 more 320s by June. 2 more unknown type by october. Maybe that is where the Addnl 57 rumor came from.

Thats all for now

Cheers

John, Fleet Service Agent for HP.

 
tcfc424
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RE: America West Dumping 737-300s But Keeping -200s?

Thu Apr 01, 2004 1:18 pm

I may be way off the mark here (and I probably am) but isn't the 7E7 supposed to be a combination between the 757/767 fleet lines...not as an outright replacement, but as a reingineered aircraft that would fill the gap in between and allow additional options? Its been a while since I looked at the 7E7 information, but IIRC, that was what was proposed.

If that's the case, YES I HOPE IN 10 YEARS THERE IS A DEMAND FOR A 200 SEAT MIDRANGE A/C!!!

Sorry, don't mean to yell, I just get excited thinking about an all-new Boeing A/C.

Mike S in AUS
 
Guest

RE: America West Dumping 737-300s But Keeping -200s?

Thu Apr 01, 2004 4:43 pm

"That statement is incorrect. I can tell you for a fact they have (were) been going to Los Cabos and Puerto Vallarta for the spring break season."

757's have been doing Mexico trips for years at different points. I started at HP in 1998 and 757's have been doing Mexico trips at times from 2000 on that I remember for sure.

"RUMOR was that boeing approached HP to buy out the leases on our Airbus's and sell us 737NGs. This rumor ran around for a week in January"

The above rumor has been around for years as far back as '99 bit at that time Franke was still in charge. Doug Parker has never ruled out Boeing and has never said HP will go all Airbus. I recall about a year ago when Parker was asked about HP going to an all Airbus fleet he responded that they were in talk's with both Boeing and Airbus about future aircraft.

Airbus and Franke were in bed, I recall that airbus invested some cash into HP in the early 90's and in return HP would buy airbus. The airbus have always been up and down with HP. They have to cover the flight deck windows in PHX/LAS during the summer to prevent something that is in the glass from tripping a fuse. Summer in PHX can bring havoc with the airbusses where the Boeings seem to do far better in the heat of the desert.

Most of the MX issues I encountered working at HP were with the 757 the most followed by the airbus, 733 and 732's.
 
flyboy7974
Posts: 1348
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RE: America West Dumping 737-300s But Keeping -200s?

Thu Apr 01, 2004 8:52 pm

i forgot on what date, but ship 187aw flew its last flight oak-phx last month. the a320 that are coming on line are all from europe

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