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Dazed767
Posts: 5005
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 11:55 am

RE: Reclining Horror Stories?

Wed Apr 07, 2004 4:04 am

Everybody has the right to recline, I don't care if both your legs are broken and your in the last row that doesn't recline. Put this device on my seat and it will quickly end up where the sun don't shine. This isn't your personal aircraft, if your so desparate for leg room, sit in First or charter a biz-jet.

I hope the FAA bans this stupid thing.
 
DutchFlyer
Posts: 159
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 5:51 am

RE: Reclining Horror Stories?

Wed Apr 07, 2004 4:05 am

Totally agree with WGW2707. The use off the little device is not done. Other passengers are paying as well for a ticket. Buying such a ticket entitles to the service provided by the airline concerned. Looking at our Dutch carrier KLM they advertise with pitch and the amount of degrees your seat can recline. So buying a KLM ticket entitles you to use all the benefits provided.

If you want more legroom buy a premium ticket. It's so simple: pay more, get more.

People expect premium service on a $25 flight from AMS to JFK (example). No way, airliners have to make a profit so no extra legroom, just the service you paid for.

So people stop complaining. It's like buying a Honda Civic and complaining it is not as luxurious as a Mercedes, lacks the power of a Porsche and doesn't have the image off a Roll Royce.

Bottom line is: you get what you pay for. Little ticket prices --> little leg room.

This thread should be moved to http://www.airwhiners.net


[Edited 2004-04-06 21:07:38]
 
caetravlr
Posts: 865
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 8:19 am

RE: Reclining Horror Stories?

Wed Apr 07, 2004 5:14 am

As I said before, there is a reason the airlines are banning this, it modifies, and could possibly damage, the aircraft's seats. If someone sitting behind me uses this device, it will not be tolerated. I am not rude, and do not simply recline quickly, but usually slowly, and only about halfway. However, it is not up to the person behind to decide how far I can go. Period.

CAETravlr
A woman drove me to drink and I didn't have the decency to thank her. - W.C. Fields
 
willo
Posts: 1331
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 10:21 pm

RE: Reclining Horror Stories?

Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:02 am

Dazed767

It isn't your personal aircraft either.

Why can't people be more considerate of their fellow passengers?
 
fspilot747
Posts: 3455
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 1999 2:58 am

RE: Reclining Horror Stories?

Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:16 am

If I paid for the seat, I want to be able to recline the damn thing. I'll tell you what, if someone uses that on me on a long flight, I'll first politely ask him to remove it (if it's not some old lady who needs it). Otherwise, I'll get out of my seat and take it out myself.

Totally unacceptable.


FSP
 
XAAAM
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 12:32 am

RE: Reclining Horror Stories?

Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:25 am

I hate recliners, and if I´m not in the last row either in business o economy I never recline in order to respect other passengers.

Hate those people that the plane is not moving yet and they are already reclined.

However I have to accept that they paid for it, I see it more like a respect for other people kind of thing.
 
cytz_pilot
Posts: 391
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 1999 3:34 pm

RE: Reclining Horror Stories?

Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:43 am

Good luck finding a 'right' answer in this debate. Being 6 foot, I'm lucky that on the airlines I fly, the space under the seat in front of me is considered my space too. If the seat in front reclines too much I stretch my feet out underneath and just put up with loss of space in front of my face.

There are some people who are a lot taller than me. Most of the male members of my family are at least 6'4 and it's tougher, I mean a person who is 5'6 is not going to consider that there might be a giant behind them, but I would have to assume that most passengers would bring their seats up a bit if asked politely, and if you explain the situation. And if that doesn't work, by then maybe you've gotten a bit of sympathy from your row-mates and can switch seats. A recline-blocker is not a 'polite request' to bring your seat up, it's a slap in the face. We're human beings and shouldn't have to resort to this kind of nonsense if we have a problem.

 
RareBear
Posts: 540
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 4:11 am

RE: Reclining Horror Stories?

Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:52 am

As I said in my earlier post, your "right", if you even have a right, to recline your seat stops where my knee starts. If one of you guys insists on reclining his seat regardless, just hope I'm not in the seat behind you. We'll have a discussion with the F/A, and you will lose.
Illegitimus non carborundum
 
aa757first
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:40 am

RE: Reclining Horror Stories?

Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:53 am

Any knee defenders brought aboard the aircraft should of course be confiscated immediately, and the passenger loudly chastised.

I don't fully agree with that rule. Yes, I'm only 5'3 and don't understand the position of you 6'0+ people, but what if that passenger is connecting to another airlines flight and plans on using it then, not now? In that case, its not my problem. If it were my airline, I would tell the FAs not to even mention it unless it is in use. If it is in use, I think the FA should politely ask the person to remove the device. If the passenger insists on using it, re-seat the suffering passenger and inform the passenger using the device s/he is no longer welcome to fly with this airline. Just MHO.

AAndrew
 
n102daman
Posts: 153
Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2003 3:59 pm

RE: Reclining Horror Stories?

Wed Apr 07, 2004 7:14 am

Ahhhhhhh to recline or not to recline. That is the question.

Honestly I don't mind. I too am 6'3" tall and fly quite often. If possible I will ask for a bulkhead seat, the exit row, or an isle and watch out for the drink/meal cart when it comes down. I just avoid putting anything under the seat in front of me and put it under my wife's. She doesn't mind because she is 5'3" and the seat in front of her is just extra storage space. I do prefer that the person in front of me does not recline their seat but if they want to do that then that is their choice. I try to keep my seat in the upright position as much as possible especially during meal time. If there is not anyone seated behind me I will most definitely recline my seat just for the comfort if I am tired and am on a long flight. Another good reason to have a window seat.

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pelican
Posts: 2431
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 9:51 pm

RE: Reclining Horror Stories?

Wed Apr 07, 2004 7:36 am

Travelagent: I tried to ignore Joleb because I didn't want to start a political
debate (although I love it). But you found the appropriate reply
to our narrow-minded fellow.

As long as economy plus cost twice the price of economy people who can't afford this have to live with inconvenient situations.
My experiences show me that you can achieve much with politeness, but knee defending devices aren't polite - they are a kind of an offence!

 
ANA777Master
Posts: 289
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:33 am

RE: Reclining Horror Stories?

Wed Apr 07, 2004 7:45 am

God help the person who tries this with me.
 
ANA777Master
Posts: 289
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:33 am

RE: Reclining Horror Stories?

Wed Apr 07, 2004 7:53 am

"being 6'4",blah, blah, blah, blah,........"

Give it a rest. Take your shoes off and sit on a couple pillows....
 
EGGD
Posts: 11884
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2001 12:01 am

RE: Reclining Horror Stories?

Wed Apr 07, 2004 7:59 am

Yup, I think this is rediculous.

You have PAID for the space that your seat reclines into, therefore you have every right to recline your seat. If someone is preventing you from reclining your seat, they are occupying the space you have paid for. Yes there might not be enough space for some people, but thats the airlines fault, not the passenger in front of you. (s)he has every right to recline their seat, whether they are 4ft or 6ft.
 
yvrtoyyz
Posts: 629
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:10 am

RE: Reclining Horror Stories?

Wed Apr 07, 2004 9:26 am

I don't think anyone has given this solution yet. If you're on an aircraft with dual EE, chose the second EE row. That way you the increased room of an EE and the row in front of you doesn't recline. Problem solved! Happy flying!

-YVRtoYYZ
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26529
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Reclining Horror Stories?

Wed Apr 07, 2004 10:05 am

Re: Knee Defender

Not sure if this has been mentioned on this thread, since I didn't read through all of it, but both Northwest Airlines and American Airlines have banned the Knee Defender from thier aircraft. More airlines are sure to follow suit, or already have.
a.
 
jeffrey1970
Posts: 1492
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2001 1:41 am

RE: Reclining Horror Stories?

Wed Apr 07, 2004 10:29 am

I still think that while yes people do have a right to recline there seats, it is only proper to ask the passenger behind you if they mind. That is just my opinion.
God bless through Jesus, Jeff
 
chrisrad
Posts: 967
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2000 7:26 pm

RE: Reclining Horror Stories?

Wed Apr 07, 2004 11:39 am

I understand that if you have paid for a seat to recline you have the right to. I have inconsiderate people just slam there seat back and then give me dirty looks everyime my knee touched their seat. The argument if you want more space then pay for business class etc. is not really fair either, I didn't choose to be so tall and I can't do anything about it. I don't earn enough money to justify spending so much money. I think the issue here is that there should be a minimum seat pitch so that even if the person reclines in front of you. I'm 6'4" and 34" economy makes is slightly more bearable. So I always try to fly airlines with the few extra inches of space, so from Australia that would be MH,TG,NZ.
Welcome aboard Malaysia Airlines! Winner of Best Cabin Staff 2001,2002,2003,2004,2007,2009,2012
 
aguilo
Posts: 237
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 4:52 am

RE: Reclining Horror Stories?

Wed Apr 07, 2004 3:17 pm

Even if it is your "right" to recline. Sometimes out of basic decency you shouldn't recline all the way. Reclining somewhat and reclining completely isn't going to make you THAT much more comfortable number one, but might really put the person behind you through hours of torture.

I've found that the best answer to inconsiderate people in front of me has been to either 1) On a nighttime flight, turn your light on - if they are really reclined back that far, it'll shine on them enough to be a nuisance 2) Open up the air vent all the way and aim it right at their noggin.

Pretty fair to say that once you are actually getting the illumination and/or air from the seat behind you - you're reclining too far back.
 
Mizzou65201
Posts: 192
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2000 2:11 am

RE: Reclining Horror Stories?

Wed Apr 07, 2004 3:29 pm

There is no such thing as a "right" to recline any more than I have a "right" to blast loud music out of my laptop for the entire flight. It's my laptop. I paid for it. It's my seat. I paid for it. This does not mean I can do whatever I want with my seat or my laptop, even if I am only doing something it is designed to do.
 
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Starlionblue
Posts: 20608
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: Reclining Horror Stories?

Wed Apr 07, 2004 5:20 pm

Can't we all just get along?

I find it refreshing that so many people still ask the person behind if they can recline. Such a nice gesture.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
Whisperliner
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2000 8:56 am

RE: Reclining Horror Stories?

Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:19 pm

if someone really needed the room, and asked me politely I will definetly limit my recline or not do so...but the point is that I make the choice as it is my right. Many here has talked about it not being a right and that it doesn't come with the the airfare..true. But it is an amenity that everyone onboard is entitled to, so why should I get discriminated agaist just becaue some bozo with plastic wedges decides he should get more room because of "common courtesy, decency" or some garbage like that. Lets see you talk about rights if someone restricts you from using the lavatory because its "not part of the airfare- its to get you from point A to point B- so hold it in buddy"

similar analogies..

Passanger A says to Passneger B
"I am a larger person- I eat more, so during meal service I will take a portion of your food, because after all it is not your right to get a meal, it is only an amenity"

or

An person buys plastic widgets so that they prevent people on both sides from using the armrests (lets call them "elbow defenders"). They claim they are "extra wide in the shoulders"- but don't try complaining that you don't have an armrest...after all, this is not a right!!! you didn't pay for an armrest- you are only to get from point A to point B. And how dare you try to use the armrests!?! so inconsiderate to a fellow traveler because I have wider shoulders than you do...

If airlines can make fat ppl pay for taking two seats, they should make someone pay if they want the extra space they took from someone else by stopping them from reclining...


I agree that if somone were to use that crap (plastic widgets) on me...they would get it "stuck where the sun don't shine".
 
pelican
Posts: 2431
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 9:51 pm

RE: Reclining Horror Stories?

Wed Apr 07, 2004 7:28 pm

Tough words Whisperliner...
I wouldn't denial your right to recline your seat, thus I have to agree that knee defenders should be banned.
But as RareBear stated earlier Your rights to recline your seat stops where my knees start.
At least because I have also paid for a seat and not standing room...

My solution is restricting recline - not completely but reclining in the lap of the guy behind you shouldn't be possible.


 
Whisperliner
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2000 8:56 am

RE: Reclining Horror Stories?

Thu Apr 08, 2004 5:27 pm

Pelican, I agree with you- if someone's knees are in the way, I will make sure I don't hit them. But to stop me from totally reclining is infuriating. I think the airlines need to provide more room, because the amount of room they give now in economy is borderline ridiculous...
 
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Starlionblue
Posts: 20608
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: Reclining Horror Stories?

Thu Apr 08, 2004 5:31 pm

You get what you pay for.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
chrisrad
Posts: 967
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2000 7:26 pm

RE: Reclining Horror Stories?

Thu Apr 08, 2004 6:46 pm

You get what you pay for

Yeah well except you can pay the same airfare for the same route across many airlines, but seat pitch can vary from 31" to 34", if there was some consistency amongst airlines I would agree.
Welcome aboard Malaysia Airlines! Winner of Best Cabin Staff 2001,2002,2003,2004,2007,2009,2012
 
DeskPilot
Posts: 704
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 8:02 am

RE: Reclining Horror Stories?

Thu Apr 08, 2004 7:56 pm

I've suffered people indiscriminately reclining their seat without checking - crushed laptop anyone ???? Also using one of these devices to restrict the decline also suffers from the same rudeness. What we have is lack of concern for impact of our action on others.

The space that you recline is someone's laptop, eating, reading space. If you want to reclines, ask the person behind you if it is OK - can't be too hard. Maybe work out a compromise. Recline a bit, give a bit. I'm happy with that - I'm happy to give up a little space, maybe the whole lot if I'm having a sleep too and I'm also fully reclined (after asking).

Maybe we should include an item on aircraft etiquette into the safety video  Smile


By the way, is there anyone on board who knows how to fly a plane?
 
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Starlionblue
Posts: 20608
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: Reclining Horror Stories?

Thu Apr 08, 2004 7:59 pm

DeskPilot! What a great idea!

Aircraft etiquette should be in the safety video and the safety card. Brilliant brilliant brilliant!
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
DeskPilot
Posts: 704
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 8:02 am

RE: Reclining Horror Stories?

Thu Apr 08, 2004 8:08 pm

Assuming you're not taking the p*ss Sarlionblue, I think it's better for the FAs and videoes to give one message. It might work with most of the paxs (e.g. don't know, don't think types), but some people are always selfish and anything less than a fine that's enforced is not going to work !
By the way, is there anyone on board who knows how to fly a plane?
 
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Starlionblue
Posts: 20608
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: Reclining Horror Stories?

Thu Apr 08, 2004 8:17 pm

I'm seriously not joking. I think it's brilliant.

But it needn't be a long rant. Just one or two sentences.

"Please be sensitive to those around you. Be careful and gentle when you recline your seat as there is limited space."

Even if you haven't said "Don't be a moron", you are still making people think (if only for 1½ secs) about their behavior.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15079
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Reclining Horror Stories?

Thu Apr 08, 2004 8:27 pm

Airline etiquette on the safety video - brilliant idea, especially on long flights.

This may be a gross generalisation, but from my own experience it would seem that our Continental cousins seem more likely to favour spending the entire flight, be it by day or night, as reclined as possible. Strategically placed knees can help limit the incursion, if a polite request is ignored.

I tend to peer behind me and ask if its OK to recline fully before doing so, and only when the meal service trays have been collected.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
DeskPilot
Posts: 704
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 8:02 am

RE: Reclining Horror Stories?

Thu Apr 08, 2004 8:33 pm

At let's not forget other things like :
- sharing the arm rest,
- squashing other peoples belongings present when you put things in the o/head locker,
- taking up ALL of the overhead locker space,
- sitting on half of my seatbelt
- jumping around in your seat like it's a "jumping castle",
- the race to get out first when the plane has arrived at the gate
- etc.

I wont go on with the examples.

Maybe if we all thought about how we impact others, the world would be a better place. Think about current world events, circles of violence, etc. All started through ignorant/selfish attitudes.

Enough ranting from me. Back to the subject of seats......
By the way, is there anyone on board who knows how to fly a plane?
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: Reclining Horror Stories?

Mon Apr 12, 2004 8:48 pm

Once again, you have NOT paid for your seat, you have NOT paid for it to recline and you have NOT paid for the space the seat will recline into. Take a look at the terms and conditions, and the Warsaw convention...
Your bone's got a little machine
 
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Starlionblue
Posts: 20608
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: Reclining Horror Stories?

Mon Apr 12, 2004 8:51 pm

777236ER, you are of course correct. And we're lucky we aren't flying Elbonian Air. To refresh your memory:
- Departure by large slingshot.
- Arrival by splashdown in mud.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo

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