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LUV4JFK
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Lufthansa Really Loves Airbus.

Fri Apr 23, 2004 1:59 am

I was wondering if Lufthansa is thinking of replacing their 737-500 fleet and if they do, would they choose the 318. Looking at Lufthansa's fleet, the only Airbusses they didn't have in the past or don't have now are the 318 & the 345 and their Boeing fleet is limited at best with only 733, 735 & 744 (I'm not including 763's from Condor). Another question is would they consider getting any 345's in their fleet. Thanks for the help in advance.

LUV4JFK
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Starlionblue
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RE: Lufthansa Really Loves Airbus.

Fri Apr 23, 2004 2:01 am

I think they would take the 319 instead of the 318.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
scf158
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RE: Lufthansa Really Loves Airbus.

Fri Apr 23, 2004 4:00 am

No big surprise here... LH loves Airbus, CO and AA love boeing...
hmm, i wonder why...
just kidding.
 
S12PPL
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RE: Lufthansa Really Loves Airbus.

Fri Apr 23, 2004 4:03 am

Oo! Oo! I know this one! Because AA and CO are American airlines....hence the American made aircraft push...and Lufthansa being from Germany is pretty close to Airbus's HQ's. What do I win? Smile
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Horus
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RE: Lufthansa Really Loves Airbus.

Fri Apr 23, 2004 4:13 am

And Air France love Airbus as much as Lufthansa
EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
miamix707
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RE: Lufthansa Really Loves Airbus.

Fri Apr 23, 2004 4:30 am

apparently Air France also loves Boeing and their 777s...
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Lufthansa Really Loves Airbus.

Fri Apr 23, 2004 4:40 am

And Air France love Airbus

Actually, AF would jilt Boeing or Airbus in a split second...

...their true affection lies with whomever's sporting SNECMA  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
9V-SPF
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RE: Lufthansa Really Loves Airbus.

Fri Apr 23, 2004 5:21 am

Another question is would they consider getting any 345's in their fleet.

Definitely not. They don´t fly to any destination that would require the range of the A345.
Their longest flight currently is FRA-EZE for which the A346 and B744 offer sufficient range.

Daniel
 
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solnabo
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RE: Lufthansa Really Loves Airbus.

Fri Apr 23, 2004 6:18 am

I´ve got only one thing to say:
 Big thumbs up Waaaay to go LuftHansa & Airbus  Big thumbs up

Michael//SE
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Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
wdleiser
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RE: Lufthansa Really Loves Airbus.

Fri Apr 23, 2004 6:56 am

Lufthansa is in fact becoming more and more Airbus, yet they have one of the most technilogically advanced breakthroughs with Boeing... the CONNEXION by Boeing broadband internet on board the 744's(atleast they will very soon). The beta test went through great and I believe over the summer the 74's will all be getting it installed.

So actually Lufthansa is more into getting the best for the customer at the lowest price. They stick with airbus because of its Side Stick and that is the main reason. I have talked with many LH pilots and they have all told me Side stick is the way to go. Lufthansa talked to Boeing and said they would be interested in the 738/9 if they could get it with sidesticks.
 
henpol747
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RE: Lufthansa Really Loves Airbus.

Fri Apr 23, 2004 7:12 am

and air France loves airbus as much as lufthansa


Air France used to operate the following boeing aircrafts: 707, 727, 732, 741, 742, 762 and 763, and currently uses a large number of 737´s, 747 (300 and specially 400), 772 and most recently 773. So that I think it would be fare to say that air france loves airbus as much as they love boeing

Cheers,

Henpol747
Vive la France! ¡Viva México!
 
AvObserver
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RE: Lufthansa Really Loves Airbus.

Fri Apr 23, 2004 8:05 am

Lufthansa may love Airbus but the fact that they asked Boeing to study a 450-seat 747 stretch a couple years ago means they've no current intent to become exclusively Airbus. The latest 747 Advanced proposal meets that seating criteria and I'd suspect LH might become a launch customer if the price is right to operate along with their eventual A380s.
 
sq452
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RE: Lufthansa Really Loves Airbus.

Fri Apr 23, 2004 1:48 pm

If I were Lufthansa I would:

-start phasing out their 733s and 735s and replace them with the A319 and A318 respectively

-Continue acquiring more A346

Don't know the exact technical details on this but, I honestly don't see any reason why Lufthansa would need an A345. From a new market perspective, there really isn't any destination that they cant fly too due to range limitations on their current fleet, (SQ couldn't do LAX or EWR non stop with any of their current aircraft until the A345 came along, same goes for EX and the DXB > SYD non-stop). I think it just be foolish for them to really get the A345.

But nobody is complaining that Lufthansa has practically one of the most diverse fleets on earth with a great mix of Boeing and Airbus models, great catching the LH livery on soooo many different types of planes!  Smile
SIN > CVG > BOS
 
Guest

RE: Lufthansa Really Loves Airbus.

Fri Apr 23, 2004 10:05 pm

@Henpol747: Lufthansa had a pure Boeing fleet for years - till mid of the 70's when they bought some DC 10.
So Lufthansa also bought (and buys) Boeing.
At first they didn't want to buy the Airbus planes cause they wanted to have a "clean" fleet structure. But they had to - cause of government pressure. Then they got the first 300's and were very happy with them.
 
Guest

RE: Lufthansa Really Loves Airbus.

Fri Apr 23, 2004 10:14 pm

Lufthansa may love Airbus but the fact that they asked Boeing to study a 450-seat 747 stretch a couple years ago means they've no current intent to become exclusively Airbus. The latest 747 Advanced proposal meets that seating criteria and I'd suspect LH might become a launch customer if the price is right to operate along with their eventual A380s.

i think the biggest If is, If boeing bother making it,

I'd say LH will be pretty much all airbus in 7-10 years
 
Guest

RE: Lufthansa Really Loves Airbus.

Fri Apr 23, 2004 10:22 pm

When the Lufthansa 747-400 were build, Luthansa sent mechanicans to Seattle to control the Boeing mechanicans. Reason was that there have been some accidents and so LH wanted to make sure that they get good product for their money. They especially checked details on "hidden" places.
Also for some routes the 747-400 isn't big enough - so they need a 450 - 500 seat plane.
 
Akumas
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RE: Lufthansa Really Loves Airbus.

Fri Apr 23, 2004 10:32 pm

Do LH get any discount on Airbus products, as some (quiet a bit?) Airbus parts are manufactured in Hamburg and other parts of Germany?
 
racko
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RE: Lufthansa Really Loves Airbus.

Fri Apr 23, 2004 10:40 pm

Not more or less than any other major airbus customer.
 
warren747sp
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RE: Lufthansa Really Loves Airbus.

Sat Apr 24, 2004 12:05 am

@Stefandodte
Those are pretty serious charges you are leveling against Boeing are their 744. Can you please elaborate more on it please.??
I saw a documentary a few weeks ago about LH taking over delivery on a new 744 and they loved it.
747SP
 
9V-SPF
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RE: Lufthansa Really Loves Airbus.

Sat Apr 24, 2004 12:30 am

Airline officials checking the quality of the product that costs them a few hundred million dollars is a completely normal procedure.

LH officials visit Boeing´s AND Airbus´facilities from time to time and so do other airlines´ representatives. If the responsible people at LH had not trusted in the quality of the 747 production line, they wouldn´t have bought 30 B744s, that´s for sure.

I think stefandotde is referring to a documenary that was shown on german TV some time ago where LH took delivery of D-ABVX and there was a technical problem which Boeing had to fix before the aircraft was flown to Frankfurt, nothing more, nothing less.

I don´t think there ever was an airplane (Airbus, Boeing, whatever) of the size of a B744 that did not have a few problems right after completion but it´s understandable that the customer wants to have them fixed before paying the cheque.

Daniel
 
warren747sp
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RE: Lufthansa Really Loves Airbus.

Sat Apr 24, 2004 12:34 am

yes, of course,
But the previous post by our Belgium friend use the word "Accident" not problem.
747SP
 
Thrust
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RE: Lufthansa Really Loves Airbus.

Sat Apr 24, 2004 12:42 am

Can't argue with the facts. Lufthansa is definently taking an Airbus stance. If LH has ordered the A380, which I'm sure they have or will if they haven't already, we can expect the end of LH's 744s too, and the complete transition from Boeing to an all-Airbus fleet with the exception of maybe the McDonnell Douglas MD-11F's.
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
miamix707
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RE: Lufthansa Really Loves Airbus.

Sat Apr 24, 2004 12:47 am

They stick with airbus because of its Side Stick and that is the main reason. I have talked with many LH pilots and they have all told me Side stick is the way to go. Lufthansa talked to Boeing and said they would be interested in the 738/9 if they could get it with sidesticks

wondering why LH is so eager their pilots play with side sticks  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
Phaeton
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RE: Lufthansa Really Loves Airbus.

Sat Apr 24, 2004 12:57 am

Lufthansa used to have 707s, 727s and DC10s. They were the first customer for the 737. Lufthansa does have a lot of airbus planes, but I think it would be wise for Lufthansa to keep some fleet diversity. Lufthansa Cityline has a lot of Canadairs which are Canadian.

Thomas
"History will be kind to me for I intend to write it.", Winston Churchill
 
wdleiser
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RE: Lufthansa Really Loves Airbus.

Sat Apr 24, 2004 1:10 am

Lufthansa gets planes that will benefit their needs. They don't only buy Airbus or Boeing. They get whats in their best interest and the passengers interest,.
 
su184
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RE: Lufthansa Really Loves Airbus.

Sat Apr 24, 2004 6:03 am

I think they order what suits them, at the launch of the A340, they placed their first order when it was powered with the IAE SuperFan, but when it ran into trouble and Airbus switched to CFM, they re-run their competition and considered the MD-11 as well till they got guarantees that it will have the same performance. I read that they already eliminated the the B717 from 100-seat requirement and probably the A318 will follow too, it seems likely they take ERJ's or CRJ's or maybe the 728 which is being restarted. For a brief period in '94 I think they operated 2 B763's which was very odd. Then the MD-11F's for Lufthansa cargo. It looks they really take what they need.
 
Horus
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RE: Lufthansa Really Loves Airbus.

Sat Apr 24, 2004 6:10 am

SU184, I think they currently have two 763s that are on lease from Condor to operate on US flights. One of them wears the Star c/s.
EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
su184
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RE: Lufthansa Really Loves Airbus.

Sat Apr 24, 2004 2:12 pm

I've seen one of the B763's in full Lufthansa colors at Frankfurt then, but your comment on the lease of two Condor is new to me. I couldn't find it in anywhere, it is also a bit odd as they sold Condor to Thomas Cook already, and they have the A332's/333's in their fleet now so why the need for B763's? Maybe someone from LH can help.
 
rjpieces
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RE: Lufthansa Really Loves Airbus.

Sat Apr 24, 2004 2:20 pm

I'm with AvObserver, I could see LH going for a 747 Advanced (if there is one, of course). I also think there is a pretty good shot of them going for the 7E7 (to replace the A300s), unless Airbus comes up with something catered towards them.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Lufthansa Really Loves Airbus.

Sun Apr 25, 2004 12:08 am

I think it's obvious that LH does like Airbus planes.

After all, most of Airbus' planes were actually designed to LH requirements, given that German aerospace companies are a huge contributor to the Airbus consortium. Indeed, the original A300B with its relatively short range was designed for LH as a high-frequency high-capacity airliner for LH's intra-European routes.
 
FlySSC
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RE: Lufthansa Really Loves Airbus.

Sun Apr 25, 2004 1:54 am

Fleet rationalization is not just a question of engines...

I think it is not true to say that LH "loves" Airbus more than AF does... even if they choose the A346 and not the B772 or B773 like AF did...
But it would be even more logical if LH would follow AF in replacing its B733/B735 fleet by A318 and additional A319.

AF and LH were the earliest operators of Airbus... First, because they were "invited" by their respective government to order the first Airbus type produced (the A300) and then because they realized that Airbus were indeed good aircrafts for their network and traffic !

LH and AF both operated ALL the types of airbus produced until now except the A300-600/A345/346 for AF and the A345/A318 for LH .

LH, just like AF, will certainly not order some A345 as the geographical situation of AB) (FRA / FRF / EDDF), Germany">FRA (or CDG) doesn't require such a long-range capacity... and a AB) (FRA / FRF / EDDF), Germany">FRA-SYD nonstop would be impossible, even with an A345 (or a B772LR)
 
pelican
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RE: Lufthansa Really Loves Airbus.

Sun Apr 25, 2004 1:56 am

@ SU184
Lufthansa hasn't sold Condor to Thomas Cook. Actually Condor bought Thomas Cook (2001) after Condor and Karstadt Quelle touristic merged to C&NTouristic AG in 1997. They renamed C&N Touristic AG to Thomas Cook AG in 2001. Lufthansa still owns 50% of Thomas Cook.

 
Horus
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RE: Lufthansa Really Loves Airbus.

Sun Apr 25, 2004 2:03 am

SU184, they leased them from Condor to meet an expected high demand. Even though they operate the A330/340, they needed extra capacity quick as an intrim solution until their A333s arrived.

Their first batch of A333s are used on flights to Cairo.
EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
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solnabo
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RE: Lufthansa Really Loves Airbus.

Sun Apr 25, 2004 2:33 am

What 747 Advanced??????
I haven´t seen any....not yet anyroad  Big grin

Michael//SE
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Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
lan707
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RE: Lufthansa Really Loves Airbus.

Sun Apr 25, 2004 3:44 am

The 2 LH B-767´s are gone already and they went back to Lauda Air with at least one in service with Lauda Air titles.

The are rumours that Condor will get some A-330-200 from LH to replace their B-767-300. Those will leave the LH fleet when they receive all their A-330-300.

We will see!!!!!!
 
su184
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RE: Lufthansa Really Loves Airbus.

Sun Apr 25, 2004 9:04 pm

Pelican, thanx for the clarification, but does this mean that LH owns 50% all Thomas Cook airlines in other countries too or only in Germany?
 
airsicknessbag
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RE: Lufthansa Really Loves Airbus.

Mon Apr 26, 2004 1:02 am

LH used to own 100% of Condor.

KarstadtQuelle (a German retailer) used to own 100% of Neckermann, a tour operator.

LH and Karstadt then formed C&N, owning 50% each.

Then, LH sold 90% of Condor to C&N, retaining 10%.

C&N bought Thomas Cook (and all the respective airlines) and renamed itself into Thomas Cook.

So, in effect, LH still own 55% of Condor: 45% through Thomas Cook, 10% directly. In all operational aspects, Condor is an integrated airline of the Lufthansa group.

As far as 767s are concerned, Condor leased two from Lauda (one was recently returned) and operated them for LH on LH flights with LH code and Star Alliance colours.


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In 1993/94, LH leased one 767 from Condor to operate the AB) (FRA / FRF / EDDF), Germany">FRA-BKK-SYD flights, with LH code and in full LH colours.


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Daniel Smile
 
L1011Lover
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RE: Lufthansa Really Loves Airbus.

Mon Apr 26, 2004 1:03 am

Only one 767 has been returned to Lauda, the other one is still with Condor, operating MUC-DEL-MUC for Lufthansa and soon to come MUC-YUL-MUC in exchange for the DEL flight!

Also, at this stage absolutely no decision on any future longhaul equipment!
There have been a lot of rumors over the years, some of them were exchanging the current 767-300ER with newer a/c of the same type, with 767-400 (but this one doesn´t have the range we need), with A330 or maybe even 7E7... the list goes on and on!

Right now we are absolutely not in the position of making any future fleet plans, our focus is on how to survive!
So you´ll definetley see the 767-300ER stay with Condor for quite some time!!!

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