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concord977
Topic Author
Posts: 1224
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2004 1:43 pm

Delta Signals Possible Bankruptcy

Tue May 11, 2004 3:49 am

ATLANTA (AP) -- Delta Air Lines said Monday that it may have to file for bankruptcy if it doesn't get significant wage cuts from pilots, the first time the struggling carrier has publicly linked the two issues in a regulatory filing.

The Atlanta-based company has said repeatedly that it would fight to avoid bankruptcy and has been cautious in the words it uses when discussing the possibility. Asked about it at Delta's annual shareholder meeting last month, chief executive Gerald Grinstein said only that bankruptcy would be undesirable.

But in a quarterly report with the Securities and Exchange Commission on Monday, Delta said in part: "If we cannot achieve a competitive cost structure, regain sustained profitability and access the capital markets on acceptable terms, we will need to pursue alternative courses of action ... including the possibility of seeking to restructure our costs under Chapter 11."

[see the rest of this article here]

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/040510/na_fin_com_us_delta_bankruptcy_2.html
No info
 
funflyer
Posts: 817
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 4:53 am

RE: Delta Signals Possible Bankruptcy

Tue May 11, 2004 3:51 am

NOOOOOOOOOO
PLEASE NOOOO



This would really be bad for DL I think they really are a good airline, why can't there pilots just take the damn cut???!?
Who cares about status?
 
starrion
Posts: 1025
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2003 1:19 pm

RE: Delta Signals Possible Bankruptcy

Tue May 11, 2004 4:07 am

As a shareholder this is not good news.

As a customer this is also not good news.


Are the pilots aware that if they don't agree to more than token wage reductions that they are gonna get raped in bankruptcy proceedings? The best way to protect what they have is to meet DL's needs more than halfway and get the airline profitable again.

I've been buying low and selling high on this stock for years, but every time I buy in, it's been far lower. I'm starting to wonder if it's going to go back up on this round.....

Knowledge Replaces Fear
 
AirlineFanatic
Posts: 216
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 2:21 am

RE: Delta Signals Possible Bankruptcy

Tue May 11, 2004 4:09 am

Nowadays... airlines file Chap 11 to restructure costs and push around creditors. It's not like they said that Delta was shutting down.

They should take advantage of any options to cut their costs especially if the pilots are willing to negotiate. - don't get me wrong I DO NOT feel it is justified for loyal employees to be asked for concessions and cuts in salaries for staying with an employer for many years - but I am a realist and aviation enthusiast, and understand that DL can not continue the course.
 
Thrust
Posts: 2587
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2003 12:17 pm

RE: Delta Signals Possible Bankruptcy

Tue May 11, 2004 4:31 am

DL's financial situation indeed is one not to be taken lightly, and there is definently a possibility that they are damaged beyond repair. I pray this is not the case though.
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
caetravlr
Posts: 865
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 8:19 am

RE: Delta Signals Possible Bankruptcy

Tue May 11, 2004 4:58 am

If Delta files bankruptcy, the biggest losers will most likely be the shareholders, and the pilots. The shares will be dissolved, just like UAL did, and the pilots will be forced to sign a brand new contract at some point. There is a way to avoid this, but one group seems to be uncooperative. I can't believe that in this light, the pilots aren't even bending a little bit.

I am not blaming the whole thing on the pilots, or bashing the pilots, just saying that their union is being too stubborn for their own good at this moment.

Just my 2 cents.
CAETravlr
A woman drove me to drink and I didn't have the decency to thank her. - W.C. Fields
 
NIKV69
Posts: 14251
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: Delta Signals Possible Bankruptcy

Tue May 11, 2004 5:07 am

You have to realize that Delta may never become profitable again. B6 and WN are just KILLING the carriers that don't have a solid foundation and capital. The only way Delta can survive is to get their help to work for next to nothing which doesn't seem likely. You see if you are in debt and can't compete with B6 and WN farewise how are you going to become profitable? You can't. People can get great service, new planes and cheaper fares on B6 why are they going to fly anyone else? Someone like me who doesn't like Airbus are just going to fly CO or AA. The bell is beginning to toll for Delta, USAirways and maybe United. It's unfortunate but very true.
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
airways6max
Posts: 474
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 6:22 am

RE: Delta Signals Possible Bankruptcy

Tue May 11, 2004 5:14 am

This is reflective of Delta's handling of its finances. The fact is that passenger loads aren't THAT low. What's needed is some new leadership.
 
n757kw
Posts: 451
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 3:08 am

RE: Delta Signals Possible Bankruptcy

Tue May 11, 2004 5:20 am

I am of the opinion that DL will file for bankruptcy. Two things they will restructure to the detriment of the employees:

1. The pilots contract
2. Employee pensions

I could be totally wrong. But as a share holder, who has had the stock since before the last split. My shares are hardly worth the paper they are written on. The stock has done nothing but go down.

Okay, I will admit I am a disgruntled DL stock owner. I should have sold the shares before the split.

N757KW

"What we've got here, is failure to communicate." from Cool Hand Luke
 
ATLhomeCMH
Posts: 751
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 3:25 am

RE: Delta Signals Possible Bankruptcy

Tue May 11, 2004 5:22 am

It's a shame but we all knew it was coming. Hope theyre able to stay afloat and recover (aka: not pull a US).
"The most terrifying words in the Engligh language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"-Ronald Reagan
 
JetSaurus
Posts: 58
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 10:04 am

RE: Delta Signals Possible Bankruptcy

Tue May 11, 2004 5:24 am

July 1999 this stock was near $60/share right now it's below $5/share. And now the threat of bankruptcy. Wow how times have changed.
Jack/GPT
 
NIKV69
Posts: 14251
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: Delta Signals Possible Bankruptcy

Tue May 11, 2004 5:28 am

Owning commercial aviation stock after 9/11. Not good!!!!!!!  Sad
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
L.1011
Posts: 2172
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2001 7:46 am

RE: Delta Signals Possible Bankruptcy

Tue May 11, 2004 5:29 am

NIKV,

Ummmmm no. The majors have one frontier where the LCCs cannot compete. That is intercontinental flying. Delta has a huge European presence. Until jetBlue is announcing nonstop service to London, Paris, Rome, and Madrid for $99 roundtrip, the majors can breath easily. American has managed to keep the business traveller coming and has a massive Latin American presence. Continental has huge presences in Europe, the South Pacific, and Latin America. Delta is strong is Europe and fairly strong in Latin America. Northwest is a force to be reckoned with in Asia, United is strong in Asia and stregnthening in Latin America, and US Airways is strong in the Caribbean. All but US Airways have that anchorage.
 
NIKV69
Posts: 14251
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: Delta Signals Possible Bankruptcy

Tue May 11, 2004 5:34 am

International routes are not all they are cracked up to be, it's why SA)">WN kicks everyone's butt without leaving the USA. United's service to SA is ok at best, would rather use Varig. CO is a strong airline and has great service wherever they fly with decent fares not to mention Gordon Bethune. Delta has a tough road ahead and USAirways is barely breathing. Big part of that is B6 and SA)">WN and neither of them leave the US.
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
flamant15
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 12:39 pm

RE: Delta Signals Possible Bankruptcy

Tue May 11, 2004 6:18 am

This rest squarely on the shoulders of the Pilots Union. Suck up your ego and keep DL flying proud, or go into bankrupcy and now compete with US Airways, United for tarnished image and lower load factors.

If the Pilots Union had a brain, ha - that is a good laugh, they would give concessions asap.
 
iflyatldl
Posts: 1796
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2003 1:41 am

RE: Delta Signals Possible Bankruptcy

Tue May 11, 2004 6:30 am

The Pilots and the Union need to make the concession, or the Widget's gonna keep on wobbling. The writing's on the wall. Too bad they never learned from 2000.  Insane
Ah, Summer, Fenway Park, Boston Red Sox and Beer.....
 
InnocuousFox
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:30 am

RE: Delta Signals Possible Bankruptcy

Tue May 11, 2004 6:49 am

On a very related note, please take the time to persue this thread. I was originally going to post it here but I didn't want to swing this one off the specific Delta topic.
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
 
NIKV69
Posts: 14251
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: Delta Signals Possible Bankruptcy

Tue May 11, 2004 7:18 am

Yes at this point the only wat to save Delta and give them some hope to have a future is to give in to some heavy wage cuts. No other way. Time will tell.
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
IAHAAPLATINUM
Posts: 62
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 10:57 pm

RE: Delta Signals Possible Bankruptcy

Tue May 11, 2004 7:27 am

Unfortunately, this announcement isn't suprising. While I hate to blame one group, the pilots are certainly holding themselves up to scrutiny at the moment. Delta's flight crews are the highest paid (correct me, if I'm wrong) in the industry. If they're not careful, they're going to pull and Eastern, and run the company into the ground. Funny, I've always thought that having a job, even with lower pay, was better than not having a job.
 
NIKV69
Posts: 14251
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: Delta Signals Possible Bankruptcy

Tue May 11, 2004 7:30 am

You would think so, I lived through the Eastern collapse, my dad worked for them. Thank God he found another job. I think getting your wages cut sure beats getting told you are laid off. It's not a nice situation but at this point there are only two ways to go. Take a pay cut or get a job with B6 or WN!
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: Delta Signals Possible Bankruptcy

Tue May 11, 2004 8:03 am

Owning commercial aviation stock after 9/11. Not good!!!!!!!

Tell that to the folks that own shares of JetBlue, AirTran, and ExpressJet(especially JBLU, which has split twice since it's IPO). Southwest's stock price has gone down like most of the industry, but is still trading at a decent price. What's kind of ironic is that AirTran's market capitalization (the total value of all issued shares of stock) is higher than Delta's.
 
Aviationhack
Posts: 105
Joined: Mon May 10, 2004 10:52 am

RE: Delta Signals Possible Bankruptcy

Tue May 11, 2004 8:28 am

Not sure if this logic completely applies to the aviation industry, but if company A provides a product very similar to company B, but company B pays it's employees 20% less than company A, and provides a product that is very competitive with company A's wouldn't company B win every time?

I hate to say this, because I think airline employees deserve every penny they make, but with the cost structure of the industry right now, majors are at a huge disadvantage to the LCC's right now. Fleet commonality, lower wage structure, and a more focused plan is what is going to propel the LCC's for the next couple decades, and I also think that LCC's are going to enter the international market soon with 7E7's, A330's, and cheap 762's. Could you imagine an alliance between Ryanair and Southwest?
 
NIKV69
Posts: 14251
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: Delta Signals Possible Bankruptcy

Tue May 11, 2004 8:47 am

Airline stock is a huge risk. 9/11 proved that and as soon as B6 comes back to earth and has to fix their own planes they will level out. You are better off buying Google when it goes public.
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
BR715-A1-30
Posts: 6525
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 9:30 am

RE: Delta Signals Possible Bankruptcy

Tue May 11, 2004 8:59 am

This post is dedicated to all Delta's pilots. Please read below...


I can’t tell ya Delta what went wrong
I can’t make you feel what you felt so long ago
I’ll let it show
I can’t give you back what’s been hurt
Bills come and go and all that’s left are the words
I can’t let go
If you take some time to think it over Pilots
Take some time, let me know
If you really want to go

Don’t know what you got till it’s gone
Y'all know what it is you did so wrong
Now I know what I got
It’s just this song
And it ain’t easy to get back
Takes so long

I can’t feel the things that cause you pain
I can’t clear my heart of your love it falls like rain
Ain’t the same
I hear you calling far away
Tearing through my soul I just can’t take another day
Who’s to blame
If we take some time to think it over Mr. Pilot
Take some time let me know
If you really wanna go

Don’t know what you got till it’s gone
Don’t know what it is I did so wrong
Now I know what I got
It’s just this song
And it ain’t easy to get back
Takes so long

Do you wanna see me beggin’ baby
Can’t you give me just one more day
Can’t you see my heart’s been draggin’ lately
I’ve been lookin’ for the words to say

Don’t know what you got till it’s gone
Don’t know what it is I did so wrong
Now I know what I got
It’s just this song
And it ain’t easy to get back
Takes so long

Don’t know what you got till it’s gone no
Don’t know what it is I did so wrong
Now I know what I got
It’s just this song
And it ain’t easy to get back
Takes so long


IF ANY DELTA PILOTS READ THIS... PLEASE SAVE THEM, YOU JUST MAY NOT HAVE A JOB TOMORROW  Sad
Puhdiddle
 
UAMAYBACH1239
Posts: 213
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2004 12:46 am

RE: Delta Signals Possible Bankruptcy

Tue May 11, 2004 9:24 am

This sounds all to familiar, April 1998 the pilots at UA began with sick calls,
which went thru the summer months. The first casualty UA poor load factor for the Sydney olympics. All down hill since. The pilots realized about a year later , hey maybe we should give money back . When negotiations began they voluntarily gave a percentage back. This was after they had the raise for about year. I hope others will learn from UA. If u dont give, thay will take,
and leave u with NO OPTIONS!!
a/c flown 737-222/322/522 757/747-1-2-4, 767-2-3, 777-2-3, A319-20, DC10-10-30, L1011-3-5, 727-222adv, MD85-90 flyourfri
 
InnocuousFox
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:30 am

RE: Delta Signals Possible Bankruptcy

Tue May 11, 2004 9:41 am

I'm serious, folks. This is a bigger issue than just Delta (as mentioned by the post above re: UAL). I would like input in this thread of what exactly we expect carriers like Delta, United and USAir(friggin Ways) to do to "cut costs" when people bitch and moan so much about labor concessions?
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
 
DC10GUY
Posts: 2590
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 5:52 am

RE: Delta Signals Possible Bankruptcy

Tue May 11, 2004 9:48 am

Its seems Delta has been flying around with no heading for several years now. They need something new and exciting ....And Song ain't it .....
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
cjuniel
Posts: 123
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2003 2:02 pm

RE: Delta Signals Possible Bankruptcy

Tue May 11, 2004 10:09 am


Well we all knew this was coming but it is NOT good news at all. Delta, as with ALL airlines needs someone in there that can talk to employees of ALL levels without coming across as an a$$hole or seeming condescending. As I have said in a few other posts, the pilots are only hurting themselves and the entire airline as long as they continue to play hardball. Voluntary cuts or imposed cuts. But they are going to happen either way. The US aviation industry was LONG OVERDUE for a correction. September 11 gave a direction to point the finger and impose cuts and layoffs, but it was definitely needed for the LONG TERM health of the industry, and once things shake out, the industry will be stronger, and HEALTHIER than before.

As an added comment, I am honestly sick and tired of people comparing Southwest, Jetblue and other LCC's to the legacy carriers. It is a totally unfair comparison since you are comparing apples and oranges. They fly to a VERY limited number of cities, don't have international service (for the most part) and many of them aren't up for contract negotiations for another few years. I am not the biggest fan of Southwest Airlines (to me they are the equivalent of Greyhound, only in the air) but I do have respect for what they have done. However, to make comments like "Southwest kicks everyone's but without leaving the USA" how many markets does Southwest TRULY go head to head with the legacy carriers? All of you can call me a fool, but if US Airways avoids liquidation, Southwest is in for a dogfight of epic proportions in Philadelphia. It's real easy to say what the big airlines are doing wrong, but when LCC's are purposely avoiding airports with high landing fees, or competing directly with a major airline with the exception of a SELECT number of routes, you get skewed statistics.

Just my two cents.
 
InnocuousFox
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:30 am

RE: Delta Signals Possible Bankruptcy

Tue May 11, 2004 10:21 am

"They fly to a VERY limited number of cities,"

So? If they don't fly to a city, they aren't a consideration anyway, are they? There are reasonably large cities that some of the majors don't serve and yet you don't complain about there not being a valid comparison there, right?

"... don't have international service (for the most part)"

And most fliers in the US don't give a crap about international service - rendering this point irrelevant. On times when people DO want to travel internationally, their choices of the "legacy" carriers are often limited as well. Does that make comparing Northwest and United "apples and oranges" as well since they may serve different international destinations? It's a moot argument.

"I am not the biggest fan of Southwest Airlines (to me they are the equivalent of Greyhound, only in the air)"

Oh goodie... THAT was original! No one has ever thought of THAT comparison before!  Insane C'mon, man... now who's talking apples and oranges? Have you ever even FLOWN Southwest?

"how many markets does Southwest TRULY go head to head with the legacy carriers?"

Name ONE Southwest market that isn't served by at least one of the big boys. In a modern hubbed industry, hardly anyone is going "head to head" in the pure sense of a non-stop direct vs. a non-stop direct. The bottom line is that if AirlineA can get you from X to Y and AirlineB can get you from X to Y, they are going "head to head".
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
 
SkyWestFan
Posts: 165
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 11:15 am

RE: Delta Signals Possible Bankruptcy

Tue May 11, 2004 10:33 am

This thread is in no way a debate between our major carriers (in this case DELTA) and our Low cost carriers. Please lets keep this civil. We are all here because of the outstanding love we have for commercial aviation. We are trying to analize Delta's situation here. Many agree that the low cost sector is killing our major carriers, and on the same effect many would not.

If any airline is having problems we shouldnt look at it as an excuse to blame other carriers or to start pointing fingers. This is a rough time for all aviation including our the greats. Lets try and be supportive and hope to he|| this pans out for the best.

Remember:

Delta: An airline
Southwest: An airline

SW
Fiji. Its like sex - but better.
 
cjuniel
Posts: 123
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2003 2:02 pm

RE: Delta Signals Possible Bankruptcy

Tue May 11, 2004 10:33 am

Fox,

First of all define REASONABLY large. Because I am not talking about Fresno, California (or Omaha, Nebraska). Secondly, my argument isn't geared to those that DON'T fly international, so maybe you need to reread my comments instead of taking them out of context. My point was, plain and simple, comparing LCC's to the majors is comparing apples and oranges. A simplified cost structure will NOT work for the major carriers. And in a modern hubbed industry there are PLENTY of head to head flights. Check the schedule for any airline flying from one of their hubs or focus cities, to the hub or focus city of another carrier and you will see plenty of service. Comparing United and Northwest (your example) is VERY relevant since they are the only two carriers with 5th freedom rights from NRT so while they may serve DIFFERENT Asian destinations, United and Northwest most definitely compete in Asia. And yes I have flown Southwest, and their service is adequate for anything under an hour and 45 minutes. Anything over that, I am flying a major. You don't have to like my take on it, because as I stated at the bottom of my post, it's MY two cents. And I would take the time to actually name quite a few Southwest markets where the majors don't fly, but I will let you go to their website and figure that out for yourself.
 
InnocuousFox
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:30 am

RE: Delta Signals Possible Bankruptcy

Tue May 11, 2004 10:38 am

" A simplified cost structure will NOT work for the major carriers. "

This concept I agree with. In fact, I am quite aware of the differences and the limitations... more so than you may realize. However, other than your international point, your examples were only loosely relevant.
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
 
skymileman
Posts: 577
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2001 2:32 am

RE: Delta Signals Possible Bankruptcy

Tue May 11, 2004 11:27 am

Just another sign that Jackass Gerry Grinstein is going to ruin this great company that we all love.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Delta Signals Possible Bankruptcy

Tue May 11, 2004 12:36 pm

" A simplified cost structure will NOT work for the major carriers. "

This concept I agree with.


And I could not disagree more.

A brand new network carrier, with modern work rules and a modern, simplified cost structure, could succeed in becoming profitable.

N
 
Sydscott
Posts: 3513
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2003 11:50 am

RE: Delta Signals Possible Bankruptcy

Tue May 11, 2004 12:39 pm


Let them go into bankruptcy and restructure. At least then they can get their cost base down somewhat, bargain with their lessors/creditors and get some leverage over their pilots. Not to mention some fresh capital and debt reduction. The sooner the better I say.
 
InnocuousFox
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:30 am

RE: Delta Signals Possible Bankruptcy

Tue May 11, 2004 1:08 pm

"A brand new network carrier"

That depends on what our definition of terms is. If you are going to serve all markets from international down to regional, things get a little more dicey.
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Delta Signals Possible Bankruptcy

Tue May 11, 2004 1:10 pm

I agree it would be nontrivial, but certainly not impossible.

Yes, regional all the way to international, although I'd assume the regional flying would be done by a partner carrier just like most people do today.

N
 
jhooper
Posts: 5561
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 8:27 pm

RE: Delta Signals Possible Bankruptcy

Tue May 11, 2004 1:59 pm

I believe the best solution is that the pilots should give the company the wage cuts they want with the understanding that they will recover once the company returns to profitability.
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
wgw2707
Posts: 1113
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 10:37 am

RE: Delta Signals Possible Bankruptcy

Tue May 11, 2004 2:01 pm

The time for Delta to file for Chapter 11 protection is fast approaching. Delta's shares have not fared well in the recent spate of oil-price hikes, and consequently the amount of shareholder equity is declining rapidly. As soon as a $2 or less share price is reached, that will be the time for Delta to enter into Chapter 11. I believe that if Delta enters into Chapter 11 this year, they can successfully turn the operation around.

I think these should be the goals for Delta under bankruptcy protection:

*Modify the repayment schedule for the $1.1 billion due to the creditors this year, and instead pay it off gradually over the next few years to avoid a massive negative cashflow

*Reduce pilot wages to an industry-standard level (sorry guys, you had your chance for a smaller-scale paycheck reduction and didn't give management the time of day so you deserve what you get unfortunately)...

*In order to make the Song division actually competitive with the low cost carriers it was created to do battle with, create new payscales for that division that would be below those of the mainline division, or alternately, scrap Song (although since Delta Express was apparently a success and considering the huge investment Delta made in Song this would probably be a mistake).

*Work on improving yields throughout the network by focusing more on high-yield business travel markets as opposed to low-yield leisure markets.

*Radically improve in-flight service and comfort to a competitive level to win the customers back.

*Create contingency plans with Northwest, Continental and the Skyteam partners to assume Delta's traffic liability in the event the airline is forced into liquidation, thus offering a guarantee of transport to passengers and thus counter-acting the lack of consumer confidence in an airline that bankruptcy brings about.

If Delta can make these changes, and correctly time their entry into and exit from Chapter 11, I believe that they will be around for many more years to come. If not, then it would be a great tragedy for commercial aviation, as Delta and the few remnants of past airlines such as Pan Am, Western and Northeast disappeared into history.

-WGW2707
 
alphascan
Posts: 795
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:04 am

RE: Delta Signals Possible Bankruptcy

Tue May 11, 2004 2:25 pm

When was the last time a union officer was re-elected by promising less pay?

The Delta ALPA MEC would have to fall on it's sword to do the right thing. Politicians don't fall on their swords for anyone. They just can't help themselves.
"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
 
tu154m
Posts: 613
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2001 4:52 am

RE: Delta Signals Possible Bankruptcy

Tue May 11, 2004 2:48 pm

Well, here are some views from the inside, as an employee on the front lines in ATL:
1. Today, after the filing posted in the opening thread, a pilot asked me "It seems we have been flying alot of planes with alot of MEL items.(MEL=Minimun Equip List...........basically things a plane can fly with that are not working). Why is that??? Are you guys getting cut???" A comment like that shows that someone HASN'T been paying attention to their surroundings the last 2 yrs!!!!!!! All non-pilot personnel have taken cuts in their health insurance, lost their pensions(unless they can retire in the next 7yrs), and had pay reviews frozen. Not to mention ALOT of layoffs. The pilot group at DL has blinders on. Even if DL had the old "family" atmosphere back, the pilots would be the black sheep of this family.
2. I have noticed lately, pilots trying to start up casual conversation with ramp agents, mechanics, and gate agents. It seems to me as damage control..............before they walked around with their ego, not giving the time of day to any of the normal employees.
3. One pilot bragged, "I see stock is around $6...........when it hits $3 I'm gonna load up!!!!" This shows how naive alot of people are. Go ahead, buy it at $3..............when it hits $2 and Chp 11 is filed, I'll be intrested to see how much you made off of your investment!
4. Also, alot of pilots don't seem to understand how the rest of the company operates. Even at a major airport like ATL, they seem to have a MAJOR problem understanding that there are other aircraft..........they are not the only fish in the sea, so to speak. On one hand, it is funny to see them throw a fit when they are told that a part will be at their gate in around 20min as it is coming from another part of the field. It is also a sad reminder how narrow their perspective is about the big picture. It ticks me off when I read on these forums about how great people think airline pilots are!!! Granted, about 99% of the ones I run into are nice guys. BUT, how they got elevated to this "superhero" status is beyond me. I cannot begin to tell you guys how many times I have had to walk a pilot through a procedure.......normally one that is speeled out for them on a CHECKLIST!!!!!!!!!!
I don't think the pilots are the only problem here. I think the problem started a couple of years ago, when Leo's bandits took over. BUT......I would say pilot costs are about 85% of the problem, the other 15% being management's lies, deceit, and general lack of competence. When we do go into Chp 11, I will probably lose 20% of my pay, and then my job. The pilots, while balking at the 30% DL wants them to give up, will probably feel that was a bargain when a Bancrupty Court judge take 40-50%, no questions asked. One part of me feels really sad to see a once great company fall apart. The other part of me wishes it would hurry up and get over. There's no question DL has started a long downhill slide.........just how long the hill is remains to be seen. I really wouldn't be surprised if they get absorbed into another carrier, after they are ripped apart in Chp 11 and consolidation.
S
Oh yeah......an internal memo from a pilot called this ALPAs ALAMO. We all know what happened there. Congrats ALPA........you are about to contribute to 60,000 people having their lives changed forever, many of them your "union brothers". Alot of people need to swallow their pride, stick their tails between their legs, and act like an adult. Not a spoiled rotten ego maniac that needs their hand held throughout their day, over and over again.
CEOs should swim with cement flippers!
 
bmacleod
Posts: 2990
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2001 3:10 am

RE: Delta Signals Possible Bankruptcy

Wed May 12, 2004 2:18 am

AA may not be far behind. It may be quite possible that ALL major US airlines may be headed for bankruptcy....
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
ord
Posts: 1408
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 1999 10:34 pm

RE: Delta Signals Possible Bankruptcy

Wed May 12, 2004 3:05 am

"...thus offering a guarantee of transport to passengers and thus counter-acting the lack of consumer confidence in an airline that bankruptcy brings about."

As recent history has shown, via the bankruptcy filings of carriers such as United, America West, Continental, etc., consumers have no problem whatsoever flying a bankrupt airline.
 
uadc8contrail
Posts: 1669
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:23 am

RE: Delta Signals Possible Bankruptcy

Wed May 12, 2004 3:18 am

wgw,
if you paid song employees the industry l.c.c. standards using wn as the benchmark, you would actually have to pay the song employees more as wn front line employees actually make more than dl counterparts.
Bus Driver
 
StevenUhl777
Posts: 3281
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 11:02 am

RE: Delta Signals Possible Bankruptcy

Wed May 12, 2004 12:07 pm

Next question:

1. Where do things stand as of today, May 11th...i.e. negotiations between pilots/management

and...

2. Has there been a deadline set...proverbial 'line in the sand' that DL has set to file, if they don't have a deal?

Thanks....
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
EAL757
Posts: 176
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2004 9:58 pm

RE: Delta Signals Possible Bankruptcy

Wed May 12, 2004 10:12 pm

I hate to say this but I'm actually enjoying seeing the LC carriers playing king of the hill with the majors...and winning. Other than AA and Continental, I personally wouldn't fly anything but an LCC these days...UA and DL are definitely ones I avoid just because of what the employees are doing to those companies.

Hey when this is all said and done though I think we should gut the Spirit of Delta 76 and turn it into a bar and grill...I'd work there, just to serve drinks to all the Delta pilots lamenting about not being able to get a job anywhere else b/c the LCC's don't need their scum and the industry is hurting...oh, and lamenting about not being able to afford their BMW's anymore.

-Jeff

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