Maybe this is just a vent, but I think it's misleading that Singapore flies to EWR, which is New Jersey, and says they are flying to New York.

I think that's as bad as Ryannair flying to tiny airports 70 miles away from the real city they advertise for, or when Southwest takes you 50 miles away from New York City to Islip MacArthur (ISP), while though it is NY, is not the city, and misleading to many that fly from California.

I don't care if EWR is closer to Manhattan than the two other airports. I don't care if EWR is owned by the same folks (PANYNJ) as LGA and JFK...

...If you're telling me you're flying me to New York, then the wheels had better be in New York when that A340-500 hits the runway.

-Phil

It is not have any problems with SQ and it would be all right for new nonstop from EWR-SIN this summer. It would be fine to thems.

If that is your logic, then Cincinnati, Ohio has NO scheduled, commercial air service. Delta does not have a hub in Cincinnati since the airport is in Kentucky.

I want my money back! They are lying to me!!!!

LGA is the closest airport to Manhattan, JFK and EWR are both about the same distance away.

its considered NYC beacuse before JFK was built EWR served as the main intr. airport for NYC. so without making complications that added ewr into the NYC airport group. also if EWR was not included in the NYC group it would lose alot of traffic because half of the world does no know where NJ is.

also for ISP. it IS IN NY. who buys a ticket to an airport they dont know. its really their fault for not knowing that NY state has more than 2 airports(JFK/LGA). also WN never advertized for flights to NYC to my knolege.

This was mayor LaGuardias whole thing back when he was in office. He was coming home from chicago and his ticket Said New York City but when he landed he noticed he was at EWR so he said that he would not get off the plane unless it was in New York City as his ticket said so they refueled the plane and flew to some air base in brooklyn. The later declared that he would build LGA.

But phil, calm down its close enough and those coming from Singapore will not know the difference. I can see the ads all over singapore SQ announces new non-stop service to New Jersey!!!! or the ads in the airport with pictures of the city and theres a garbage dump that says New Jersey on the top and singapore airlines on the bottom.

Does this mean if an airline flies into IAD that they can't advertise they are flying to Washington D.C.? What about DCA? They are both in Virginia. Just because the airport sits outside of the geographical boundary of a city doesn't mean that you can't advertise serving that particular city.

As for SWA, I have always heard the airport/route referred to as Islip. I have never heard it being referred to from the airline as New York City. I know this because when the route was introduced, I realized that I had never heard of the city before. Of course, I could be wrong about them trying to "trick" passengers, but I was always under the impression that it was not exactly right in NYC.

As for the other examples (Ryanair mostly), I completely agree with what you are saying. Living in Europe this past fall, I definatley had to do my research before flying anywhere with Ryaniar so I would not get stranded.

So JetBlue does not serve passengers going to San Francisco, thought they fly to OAK which is as close to downtown as SFO is?

Continental should stop advertising NYC service from Europe. They are going to New Jersey?

BigPhil...Sorry I completely miss your point. If I can see the buildings of the city I'm flying to, I don't care if I'm in another state/city, I'm still where I'm going!

ASSFO

I think that's as bad as Ryannair flying to tiny airports 70 miles away from the real city they advertise for

For US domestic flights, yes I think it is misleading if EWR is advertised as NYC rather than New Jersey. But for a super-longhaul flight like SIN-EWR, it doesn't really matter if it is advertised as New York even though this is not technically correct.

The same can be argued with London. Heathrow is still considered apart of Greater London, but Gatwick is so far away to be called London - it's actually in Sussex. So, would a Continental flight IAH-LGW do as well if it advertised as flight to Sussex? Where on earth is Sussex??? Exact geographical accuracy doesn't play that important of a role in this case.

It's all about marketing.
Most people want to go to London, not Sussex. Most people want to go to New York, not New Jersey.

[Edited 2004-05-16 18:54:31]

WEll, Part of this post is tongue-in-cheek. There's a New York-New Jersey rivalry, and I also hate EWR getting such nice traffic like the A345.

But isn't JFK getting it, also?

Why don't they just fly these routes to JFK instead of EWR?

I can't say I can get worked up about this... EWR in my mind is just as much a NYC airport as JFK. When I go to NYC, I usually fly into EWR. No big deal.

Applying your reasoning, there are many airports that would have to be renamed. Even Schiphol is not in Amsterdam! And what to think of recently-built airports that are far from the city? MXP and MUC spring to mind. KLIA is miles from KL, BUD is in Ferihegy and so on.

It takes a half hour by train to get into Manhattan from EWR, depending on traffic it takes roughly the same or a little longer, that is roughly the same amount of time from Heathrow into the heart of London, or JFK into Manhattan, or LAX into downtown LA.

Well, for starters, EWR has a huge domestic US network (mostly due to CO's EWR hub) in comparison to JFK. For anyone that needs to make connections, JFK has a pitifully low number of domestic flights. Although B6 has changed that somewhat, there are still many cities that have little to no service. For example, ORD-JFK is serviced once a day by a CRJ from Delta Connection, whereas ORD-EWR has multiple flights on CO, AA, and UA.

It makes much more sense to have a major international flight like that go into EWR than JFK.

Newark Liberty International Airport is one of the major airports serving the New York City metropolitan area, it just happens to located in the state of New Jersey. EWR is connected to downtown NewYork with rail service and is a very convenient gateway to NYC - flights to EWR are considered by all to be flights to NYC - NYC's biggest airlines maintains its hub at EWR. Singapore is not misleading anyone by flying its nonstop service to NYC into EWR. This is not a Ryanair type move: Ryanair flies to some very remote airports sometimes 100 kilometers from the city center of the city being served.

Why did SQ chose EWR over JFK for the nonstop service? I dont know the entire reasoning, but part of the decision was based on the fact SQ's JFK-AB) (FRA / FRF / EDDF), Germany">FRA-SIN daily 744 service does quite well - including the JFK-AB) (FRA / FRF / EDDF), Germany">FRA segment and SQ did not want to drop this route. On the other hand, the existing EWR-MS / EHAM), Netherlands">AMS-SIN 744 service which operates 3 or 4 times per week does not do as well and yeilds are poor and loads are mediocre the EWR-MS / EHAM), Netherlands">AMS segment (CO and KL/NW offer daily service on this route, its a bit crowded; SQ has promoted the hell out of this route over the years with lots of bargains) - thus, SQ will drop the existing flight and fly the new nonstop out of EWR (MS / EHAM), Netherlands">AMS will get an indepenent flight to SIN on a daily 777).

EWR will now have several ultra long range flights: SIN with SQ, HKG with CO, DXB with MS.

I have to correct you there Dutchjet.
> DXB with MS

MS is Egyptair (easily counfused with MH  ) DXB-EWR is served by MH Malaysia Airlines.

MH has been serving EWR for many years now. Not once have I heard the service advertised as New Jersey. It's either New York or New York/Newark.

[Edited 2004-05-16 19:25:02]

Most airlines outside the USA advertise the JFK and EWR as the NYC area.

Examples include British Airways and Virgin Atlantic Airways Limited - 49% owned by Singapore Airlines Limited - whose A345LeaderShip will be inaugurating to EWR on 28 June 2004.

However, be in the comforting thought you still receive daily MEGATOP flights from Frankfurt.

thanks, KEno, woops! I could say it was a typo, but that would not be the truth, an honest mistake!

I remember back in the days of Peoplexpress, that they advertised flights from CLT to New York for like $29 or something like that. I was thinking of doing a day trip just to see what NY is like. I would have been rather pissed to end up in Jersey rather than NY.

It makes much more sense to have a major international flight like that go into EWR than JFK.
You are so pro EWR though, any comments should be taken with a grain of salt. EWR may have more flights to Milwaukee, but JFK is the major international gateway for NYC.

Does this mean if an airline flies into IAD that they can't advertise they are flying to Washington D.C.? What about DCA? They are both in Virginia. Just because the airport sits outside of the geographical boundary of a city doesn't mean that you can't advertise serving that particular city.

yea but the real problem is,after such a long flight your TIRED.Its about transportation. IAD and BWI both serve DC,but neither have direct service to the city (like a train),only airport shuttles and taxis(IAD is 26 miles away,BWI more like 40 miles).Only DCA,which has a metro stop has public transportation into DC.

Plus driving inside DC is completley confusing.i tried to get to a french resturant,La Colline,which is right on Capital ave,right by the Capitol building.After about half an hour we ended up at the pentagon.took another half hour to fine the damn resturant.Never planning to come back to there,No matter how good the lobster bisque was.

NYC in amadeus will find LGA,JFK and EWR so EWR is NYC - at least for me  

One that is totally misleading is BWI. My boss flew there once thinking that it was close to DC so he might as well save the money by going to BWI instead of DCA but the difference in cab price would have made up for the difference in the ticket.

EWR is located 10 miles from NYC. All you need to do is take the monorail to the EWR rail station and then take a NJT train to penn station. It is easier to travel to and from NYC from Newark then it is from JFK.

"For US domestic flights, yes I think it is misleading if EWR is advertised as NYC rather than New Jersey. But for a super-longhaul flight like SIN-EWR, it doesn't really matter if it is advertised as New York even though this is not technically correct."



This is such a fun topic when it comes up........

"We we would like thank you for calling Continental Airlines. Yes, it is true CO now has nonstop service from Tulsa to New Jersey. No, not New York City, New Jersey. Here is a travel tip, you can still take that flight if you plan on visiting New York City. The airport is located in New Jersey, but it is convenient to use if you want to visit New York City. But if you want to go to actually land in New York City you must make a connection.

Thank you for calling United Airlines. Yes, flight 245 goes to Newark. That is New-ark, don't even think of New York. If you think you are going to New York City this is not the flight for you. But I can help you book a flight to New York City. Yes, I know the two airports in New York City have the same management authority as New-ark, and it is true you can see New York City when landing at New-ark, but at UA we have are facts together and are super careful not to deceive people. We always tell the truth."

"Thank you for calling US Airways, I am very sorry sir, no airline serves Washington D.C. Our nation's capital has no scheduled air service since it doesn't have an airport. Yes, but there are two Virginia airports that are very close by. Can I help you with a flight into one of those two airports?"

"Thank you for booking a trip with Delta to CVG, and have a nice flight. But as I tell everyone, you are not landing in Ohio, you are landing in Kentucky. We have started telling people that. You never know when we might someday be sued for false advertising.

At El Al, we can take you to either New York City or New Jersey. Unlike our U.S. based competitor that only goes to New Jersey. Isn't it obvious that our service is superior?

At El Al, we can take you to either New York City or New Jersey. Unlike our U.S. based competitor that only goes to New Jersey. Isn't it obvious that our service is superior?

A waste of money. EL doesn't know that people in Queens and Brooklyn use JFK, while people in Manhattan use Newark because its closer?

"WEll, Part of this post is tongue-in-cheek. There's a New York-New Jersey rivalry, and I also hate EWR getting such nice traffic like the A345."

Bigphil

You will get to see the A345 soon enough. EK will be servicing JFK with it (to my knowledge).

Just to clarify for some who may not know much about the geography of NYC, but JFK is jsut as much INSIDE NYC as LGA is.

These might be more appropriate:

As an innocent bystander to the JFK v EWR thing I have a question. Could JFK physically handle all New Yorks international traffic? If not then it needs EWR to be a New York airport, Durr!

WHO CARES!!!!!
70 miles is nothing for the 345, NYC or New Jersey......Jeeeehhhhhhh  

Michael//SE

There would be no air service to DC whatsoever with this sorta rule in place.

N

PlaneviewNYC,

LOL. I could not stop laughing at those. Only people who live in this 'oil and petroleum' state and watch the 'sopranos' might get it, but nonotheless, it is awesome. I lived there for three years and am glad to be out.

cheers

On a lighter note, there was a discussion on 'Radio 5 live' here in the UK on the launch of this service. Apparantly due to the 'Polar' route taken it cannot simply divert to the nearest airport if a passanger is taken ill, therefore in the unfortunate situation of a passenger dying, the A345 has a refrigerated compartment where a dead body can be stored until landing! Is this true of all A345 or is it a specification of SQ, I'd be fascinated to know!

@ Planeviewnyc

HAHAHAHAHA! Maybe I should PhotoShop an Alitalia ad, Non-stop to da Mudda country.

Matt

Singapore_Air: ... and Virgin Atlantic Airways Limited - 49% owned by Singapore Airlines Limited - whose A345LeaderShip will be inaugurating ...


The way you word it makes it sound like Virgin is Singapore's bitch.

Why? You always end up "plugging" SQ or VS.


B-Rgds,
BA001

Why don't they just fly these routes to JFK instead of EWR?

Plain and simple:

AMS-EWR was expendable... AB) (FRA / FRF / EDDF), Germany">FRA-JFK was valuable.

The decision wasnt a an easy one to accommodate though... for one thing, EWR's significantly shorter runway caused the flight times to bounce back a bit later than originally planned.

I don't mind where they are flying to, New York, New Jersey, New England,
If all their stewardesses look like the one in the poster they can fly me anywhere they dam diddly want!!!  

I gotta step in and defend the state of NJ. I am surprised at those who have lived there or currently live there giving NJ such a hard time. Except for a few areas near Elizabeth and Newark area, NJ is a really pretty state. Ever take a trip to Bergen county, and northward along the Hudson River? How about the Delaware Water Gap, or Cape May in the southern tip?
I've been all over the US and lived in areas that rank really low on aesthetic pleasure - like Detroit. Business used to take me to Kansas City. My God, how boring and flat!
By the way, EWR is my preferred airport to The City. Driving from JFK to NYC is a pain in the ass.The VanWyck to the LIE (Long Island Expressway) is a pain. Will the construction on the LIE EVER be finished???
I don't live in NJ any longer, but I'd have no problem moving back (well, except for a few areas). If you want a really nasty areas in the US, go to Gary, Indiana. The sky is lovely shade of yellow.

As for SWA, I have always heard the airport/route referred to as Islip. I have never heard it being referred to from the airline as New York City. I know this because when the route was introduced, I realized that I had never heard of the city before. Of course, I could be wrong about them trying to "trick" passengers, but I was always under the impression that it was not exactly right in NYC.

WN advertises the proximity of MHT and PVD to Boston and the proximity of BWI to Washington. It says nothing, however, about ISP's proximity to New York.
Yet people may still be getting the word. I change trains at Ronkonkoma LIRR station a little before 7 each evening, and there usually are at least 25 people with airline-tag-bearing luggage waiting for the 7:13 train to Penn Station. Lately the numbers seem to be increasing, too.

Relax,

Washington Reagan National is not in the District of Columbia, it's in Virginia.

Washington Dulles Airport is in Virginia.

CVG is not in Ohio, it's in Kentucky

Also using your same logic New York's only football team is the Buffalo Bills, and New Jersey has two Football teams.

The football Giants don't play in New York, they play in New Jersey

The New York Jets play in New Jersey.

One of the major factors which lead airlines to choose Newark is the high amount of business traffic, now since JFK and EWR are equal distances from Manhattan which is the World's Business center lets figure out where else in the tri-State are business traffic originates.


New Jersey the wealthiest State in the Nation and is the home to the Corporate headquarters of ..

Johnson & Johnson
At&T
Lucent
Hess Oil
Bristol Myers Squib
Honeywell
Pharmacia
Prudential Insurance/Financial

Companies with major presence in New Jersey,

Merril Lynch, Lehman Brothers, Goldman Sachs, Merck, Phizer, Novartis,

Plus the North American home to many foreign Companies

Samsung, Panasonic, BMW, Daewoo all have their North American Headquarters in New Jersey

Queens, Brooklyn and Long Island combined do not have anything near the Corporate presence that Northern New Jersey has, plus Northern NJ is 8 Million people which is a huge market onto itself.

So excluding Manhattan which EWR and JFK are equal distances, the major Corporations of the Tri-State area are all located in Northern New Jersey. Even CNBC which is the premier Business News Network is in New Jersey.

Along these same lines I've been hearing commercials for CX's new JFK-Hong Kong nonstop flight, and you guessed it they are advertising it as NY's "only" daily nonstop flight to Hong Kong.

CO pioneered the route 4 years ago so CX can blow it out their ...

The only thing I'll give CX is that they say "daily" if their flight is indeed "daily" then that would be correct since CO is only operating EWR-HKG 5-6xs per week this Summer.

What about the Giants and the Mets? Methinks that a lawyer will take them on someday for false advertising...

One more thing, the top of the Airliners.net pages are advertisements. I've been seeing lots of Song advertisements, one of which states "Flying from All Three New York Airports".

So it's not just foreign carriers, and it's not just CO who include EWR with New York.

It's everyone.

who cares! aviation history is being made

Manchester and Providence are still good (by good i mean long) rides to Boston even on the best of days. Boston is just the best airport to fly into. Jetblue it on in if WN doesnt suit your needs  

To David b:

Sorry to tell you, but you can also take the AirTrain out of JFK into Jamaica, hop on LIRR and get into Penn Station, probably even quicker than from EWR. NJ TTRANSIT trains do not operate as frequent as one may think. You most likely have to wait 30 minutes for one, much like I had to once. Jamaica is a busy hub for the LIRR and All branches with exception of one pass through Jamaica 24 hours a day 7 days a week, in some instances operating every 5 minutes between there and Penn station. Some trains even operate express making the trip in 10 minutes. By mileage, EWR may be closer to NYC, but it's how you get there that counts. And most business travelers who fly domestically prefer LGA which is truly the closest airport to midtown.

Why don't they just fly these routes to JFK instead of EWR?

Money

My boss flew there once thinking that it was close to DC so he might as well save the money by going to BWI instead of DCA but the difference in cab price would have made up for the difference in the ticket.

Caveat emptor. Let the buyer beware. If he had spent 5 minutes reviewing his ENTIRE route, he would have avoided that mistake.

This is valid also if you fly to Newark instead of JFK. The journey doesn't end at the airport. I always check the price and time of transit to and from the airport as part of planning my trip. It's common sense.

EWR may not be IN New York but it serves the New York Area. Other examples of airports that serve an area but are not there:

Stansted - London
Arlanda - Stockholm
Fiumicino - Rome
LAX - Los Angeles (BA always says "Welcome to the Los Angeles Area", imho showing quite a keen understanding)
Gardemoen - Oslo
CDG - Paris
Frankfurt-Main - Frankfurt.

I could go on...

My boss flew there once thinking that it was close to DC so he might as well save the money by going to BWI instead of DCA but the difference in cab price would have made up for the difference in the ticket.

Its a $40 cab ride or a $6 MARC ticket.

IAD is a $40 cab ride, or an $8 bus fare + $2.20 metro transfer.

BWI's fares are usually hundreds of dollars cheaper than either IAD or DCA.

N

Other examples of airports that serve an area but are not there:
...
LAX - Los Angeles (BA always says "Welcome to the Los Angeles Area", imho showing quite a keen understanding)

Actually, I believe LAX is within the Los Angeles city limits.