sdkualeb
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ORD Delays A Daily Thing

Tue May 18, 2004 9:44 pm

It is rumored that the delays that are happening in every day in the ORD area is the ATC people doing a slow down, Is there any truth to this. Also there was a rumor that they are doing a slow down to prove that the other runway is needed. Can anyone back this up. Is there any truth to this at all ? And if there is any truth to this do they know how many lives they are screwing up !
 
flyingbronco05
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RE: ORD Delays A Daily Thing

Tue May 18, 2004 10:01 pm

I highly doubt they are doing it on purpose. ORD is a very popular airport and too many planes are coming in too close together.

FB05
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EK413
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RE: ORD Delays A Daily Thing

Tue May 18, 2004 10:16 pm

I pretty much doubt that the ATC is deliberately delaying aircraft so that they can re-open a runway.
The way I look at it, if ATC delay an aircraft to reduce the work load it would be giving them twice as much work reason being they have reschedule the aircraft(s) that are delayed! (Correct me if I'm wrong).
That's my 0.02c

EK413
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mojo89
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RE: ORD Delays A Daily Thing

Tue May 18, 2004 10:26 pm

Speaking from experience with ORD, it is not the controllers sabotaging the operation. O'Hare is a different animal from any other airport. The place is so constantly busy that any wind shift from the wrong direction or a line of thunderstorms anywhere around there will put the entire operation into a tailspin. You name it. If it can go wrong at ORD it will. I think Murphy's Law was written there. The controllers at ORD are definitely at a Major League level.
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. -Dr. Hunter S. Thompson
 
spyglass
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RE: ORD Delays A Daily Thing

Tue May 18, 2004 10:50 pm

If there's a slowdown, it's for safety concerns. ORD has consistently had the best controllers in the US system (the world, for that matter)...the FAA took only volunteers for O'Hare duty. Most of the folks there were from the area, knew the rigors demanded, and accepted them...that's where they wanted to be...and it worked well. (Ask any pilot with multiple thousands of hrs in their books who they would want to bring them in if conditions were really bad...really in the soup...most will say the ORD group. They're that good becuase they've had to be). Of late, however the airlines, most notably AA & UA, have insisted on loading the ramps and approaches with multi-hundred little sardine-can Barbiejets every day, causing backups and conjestion and pushing the safety parameters to the edge. A little plane takes just as much controller attn as a widebody..do the math. A good many of the veteran controllers have had it and are starting to retire en masse before the replacements can be inured to the various ramifications and vicissitudes that occur daily in ORD traffic control. Ergo, a perceived slowdown. If you get into Chicago on a flt and have a little layover, wander over to Concourse G in T3 and watch the goings-on...or the west side of T2, for that matter. Amazing how many of the little buggers are taxiing around, being pushed off, waiting for gates, etc...that it works as well as it does is a credit to the Eagle and UA Express ramp tower folks. But as to a deliberate slowdown by the FAA folks, very doubtful. They understand the vital importance of what they do and they are on their game.
chow
I remember when......a plane trip was a big deal.
 
7e72004
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RE: ORD Delays A Daily Thing

Tue May 18, 2004 10:53 pm

One word people...PEOTONE! (Ohare is too crowded and Midway is going to hit capacity soon)
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
mojo89
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RE: ORD Delays A Daily Thing

Tue May 18, 2004 10:58 pm

Signature handles the ramp tower duties for Eagle and UAX all at the same time. Just one person, all day long, in a tower atop T2. They do an amazing job of directing all that traffic.
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. -Dr. Hunter S. Thompson
 
atcboy73
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RE: ORD Delays A Daily Thing

Tue May 18, 2004 11:28 pm

Im an (FAA) air traffic controller and I know for a fact that NATCA, the National Air Traffic Controllers Association has said nothing about a slow down being done at this time to prove any kind of a point.

At ORD you have many delay causing situations come together. Things like strong wind patterns low ceilings and even thunderstorms 100 miles away can cause problems. Many airlines these days also do not allow ATC to exercise an operation call Land And Hold Short.

Look at Flightarrivals.com this evening at about 3pm and you will see anywhere between 190 to 250 arrivals scheduled for the next two hours. Keep checking it through out the evening and you will find that number doesn't go down till about 8 or 9pm.

At its best usable runway configuration ORD can not handle this amount of traffic. Airport capacity is a black and white thing. Only one plane can use a runway at a time unless we want to change the separation standards and at ORD this usually means two runways for departures and two runways for arrivals. Thats clearly not enough.

Weather plays a big part in ATC operations. ATC can clear planes to take off and land all day. But if there is a level 5 thunder storm 1 mile off the end of the runway the pilot will refuse to fly into it. So lets say you have a storm approaching ORD from the west and it is blocking one of the arrival corner posts. You can think of an arrival corner post as a freeway and this freeway has a wreck on it now. Im sure you have been on a freeway when traffic has to stop so that a wreck can be cleared right? Its much like this in the air. In order to separate huge amounts of traffic, class B (like ORD) is set up in an X and + pattern. Usually the X is how planes enter the air space and the + is how planes depart the airspace (with the airport in the middle). If a thunderstorm closes off one of those X entry points (or another point for that matter) you will have delays. And if the traffic is such that on a good weather day you have delays your bad weather delays are going to be worse.

Question: Did you know that airborne sequencing for ORD can start as far away as Denver, Louisville or Pittsburgh? It sure does. When you have an airport as busy as ORD it is a daily occurrence to have a line of planes from Cleveland to ORD, all of them 5 to 6 miles apart, one after the other, all doing the same speed. I had a chance to watch this at Cleveland center and its a beautiful thing.

Take Dallas, Chicago, LA, Houston or any cities freeways for example. At rush hour they are usually clogged and congested. Drivers can usually see they are congested. Same thing happands in the air and at airports. The only things is sometimes you cant see what is causing the problem.

I can tell you one thing though. The controllers are not the route Big grin of the problem. The controllers are not purposely reducing the arrival and departure rate to make a point.

Controllers want nothing more than for the system to run smoothly every day because if it does we have done our job.

Side Note: The FAA is just now coming to the reality that over 50% of its controller workforce is going to be eligible for retirement in the next 5 to 7 years. It takes anywhere from 3 to 5 years to training people like me and believe it or not, everyone cant do this job. So if the FAA doesn't start hiring expect delays to get worse. Not because of weather or runway construction but because they are not enough of people like me to separate.

How to solve the problem:

Determine airport capacity.

Implement slot controls
 
CVGpilot
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RE: ORD Delays A Daily Thing

Tue May 18, 2004 11:32 pm







Vary nice ATCboy73!!!
 
UK_Dispatcher
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RE: ORD Delays A Daily Thing

Tue May 18, 2004 11:42 pm

I was on bmi flight BD706 out of there last Tuesday, and it was 2 hours between pushback and airborne.... We were very bored!
 
portcolumbus
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RE: ORD Delays A Daily Thing

Tue May 18, 2004 11:42 pm

Excellent post atcboy. Did you go to a university with an ATC program? I'm still on a waiting list for the Community College of Beaver County's ATC program. Hopefully I will join your ranks within the next 2 or 3 years.
 
SpeedbirdHeavy
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RE: ORD Delays A Daily Thing

Tue May 18, 2004 11:52 pm

One word people...PEOTONE! (O'Hare is too crowded and Midway is going to hit capacity soon)

Nobody is going to Peotone. Way too far from downtown Chicago. Gary is much closer and no one seems interested in going there at this point. If you really want to travel 70 miles to go to an airport, then go up to Milwaukee or Rockford.

Peotone is not realistic. A rehabbed O'Hare is the best bet.
China Airlines...Come fry with us!
 
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airportugal310
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RE: ORD Delays A Daily Thing

Tue May 18, 2004 11:57 pm

Many airlines these days also do not allow ATC to exercise an operation call Land And Hold Short.

Its not that airlines dont allow LAHSO operations, because at Boston-Logan its in effect more times than not. What you need to know, and probably do because I'm not undermining your intelligence, is that because it is the pilots ultimate responsibility, some may choose NOT to accept it.

If after you accept it and then realize that you may not be able to and go missed, being put in a hold to be re-sequenced is not a great option. This I suspect is a big reason pilots and airlines for that matter don't accept LAHSO clearances.

By the way, great post atcboy. I was talking to a recent ATC grad from Daniel Webster College who said he couldnt do his thing because the FAA was not hiring...maybe the FAA should revisit its numbers! According to you, clearly they do!
“They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.”
 
AAR90
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RE: ORD Delays A Daily Thing

Wed May 19, 2004 12:26 am

Its not that airlines dont allow LAHSO operations,

Actually it is...partly. AA only allows LAHSO at 8 airports throughout its entire world-wide system. Even then, when permitted it is only for certain specific runway combinations and certain limited specific situations.
*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
 
atcboy73
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RE: ORD Delays A Daily Thing

Wed May 19, 2004 12:30 am

Wow, thanks for all the compliments.

PortColumbus

I went to Beaver County about 6 or 7 years ago and nine months later had my job. Beaver is a great school and it prepared me and my class mates for the job, unlike some of the other schools graduates that were in my OKC academia class.

AirPortugal310

You are correct, the pilot has the responsibility for determining if he can comply with the restriction. But I believe some airlines, notably AA do not allow their pilots to do Land And Hold Short. AA has a hub at ORD.

Any AA pilots please correct my if I am wrong.

The FAA is just now coming to grips with its staffing problem. Any controller hopefuls should be aware that while things might be slow (hiring wise) now, it could all change tomorrow. Last Sept our region of the FAA alone picked up over 180 new controllers. What I find really interesting is how many people cant either understand, keep up with or comprehend the work. I have never thought of myself as an ultra intelligent person so I figured if I can do it anyone can. Sorry (and I really am sorry) that isn't the case. So for those 180 that got hired maybe only 50% of them will check out.

The FAA isn't the FAA of the past. Its called "Train to succeed" and if a new controller isn't working out at the first facility and shows some promise the FAA will try to find a better situation for them.

Ill tell you what really surprises me.


The controllers do care about the integrity of the system. We don't get to just sit by the side and watch the worlds most complex system function or clog up.

I hate having to delay an airplane. I know people are being inconvenienced.

We could reduce the problem at ORD next month if we had reasonable scheduling and/or slots.
 
7e72004
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RE: ORD Delays A Daily Thing

Wed May 19, 2004 12:33 am

How much longer are they going to keep "expanding" ORD? Doesn't it have to get to a point where it is just plain impossible?
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
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airportugal310
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RE: ORD Delays A Daily Thing

Wed May 19, 2004 12:37 am

Just for my own information and knowledge base AAR90, what are those 8 airports? Thanks bro.

“They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.”
 
planespotting
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RE: ORD Delays A Daily Thing

Wed May 19, 2004 12:45 am

In a year i will have a double Major in Aviation and Communication. Not sure i want to do the flight ops thing anymore....what would be a good way to get into ATC? Don't really want to spend any more money and go back to school to some atc camp or anything. Isn't there some kind of test you have to take? A friend of mine and i are both interested and it would definitely be something we would be into doing. any suggestions?
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spyglass
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RE: ORD Delays A Daily Thing

Wed May 19, 2004 12:52 am

A caveat to my above post...in lauding the ORD controllers, I in no way meant to infer that those at other traffic centers were substandard....not at all. There are several places where a woefully inadequate runway system requires very precise inbound, ground, and outbound control. Some because of rwy layout, such as SEA, SFO and STL, or because of local politics, as in LAX and SNA, still others because of only 1 rwy to handle inbd and outbd, like SAN, DCA, LGA (and those are very short, allowing little margin for aborts). All of those folks have their hands full daily. Not to mention the large metro areas with multiple airports...overall the FAA folks, controllers and techs, do one heck of a job....if they could just get the powers that be to finally decide on a new nationwide system of navaids, computers and equipment to reliably meet the future needs.....
chow
I remember when......a plane trip was a big deal.
 
atcboy73
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RE: ORD Delays A Daily Thing

Wed May 19, 2004 12:58 am

Planespotting

I would start by checking out the NATCA website at

http://www.natca.org/about/career.msp

It is my understanding that the FAA is getting most of its controllers from the schools and form the military right now.
 
InnocuousFox
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RE: ORD Delays A Daily Thing

Wed May 19, 2004 1:05 am

(Click on the pictures for the full size, non-distored view.)

Arrivals and departures at ORD for the next 4 hours (1100-1500 local). Each data point is a 5 minute interval. Currently scheduled operations range from 10-20 every 5 minutes.



The sequencing for ORD starting as far away as northern Nebraska (red is to ORD, Green is from):



Current position of arrivals to ORD (red) and MDW (orange):


Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
 
vivavegas
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RE: ORD Delays A Daily Thing

Wed May 19, 2004 1:19 am

The quickest and most controversial plan would be to severely limit ALL RJ's into ORD, make the airlines fly planes larger than 120 seats (3 rj's vs 1 full size plane = 1/3 the take-off's and landings)

I know this sounds simple, but this would solve some of the capacity issues!

My .02

Craig
MKE - Chicago's True Third Airport
MKE / EYW / LAS - The true trifecta of aviation!
 
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jsnww81
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RE: ORD Delays A Daily Thing

Wed May 19, 2004 1:24 am

As Spyglass said, the problem at ORD is not with air traffic control (although the airlines are quick to lay blame in the direction of the control tower.) O'Hare is undergoing a particularly brutal period of Death by Regional Jet. American and United simply don't know when enough is enough. Every minute of every day, there are dozens of the damn things converging on Chicago, and the runway layout (and wind shifts) don't lend themselves to a 'critical mass'-style RJ operation a la CVG or CLE.

I'd love to see the FAA place a cap on hourly regional jet operations at O'Hare, although I know it's a.) unlikely and b.) without precedent. At the rate things are going, the only mainline at ORD is going to be the overseas operations. I'm sure if American could find a way to run 45 ERJs daily to Heathrow, they'd do it.  Yeah sure

 
InnocuousFox
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RE: ORD Delays A Daily Thing

Wed May 19, 2004 1:34 am

If you limit the RJ traffic, you will limit the destinations served. UA/AA will simply not be able to serve smaller markets from ORD. Also, remember that the RJs are replacing props for the most part. Those were more of a pain for ATC than the RJs are.
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
 
planespotting
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RE: ORD Delays A Daily Thing

Wed May 19, 2004 1:41 am

You know ORD congestion is bad when the RJ @ DBQ has to hold short of the runway for 45 minutes waiting for IFR release for the 30 minute flight to ORD. thanks for the link.
Do you like movies about gladiators?
 
flyingbronco05
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RE: ORD Delays A Daily Thing

Wed May 19, 2004 2:04 am

One word people...PEOTONE! (Ohare is too crowded and Midway is going to hit capacity soon)

No way to Peotone. Why not use Gary?
Never Trust Your Fuel Gauge
 
atcboy73
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RE: ORD Delays A Daily Thing

Wed May 19, 2004 2:21 am

The FAA needs to get better at bragging about it successes and educating the public.


What do you think about this?

An O'Hare airport TV program that actually has a person broadcast through- out the terminals explaining the reason for the delays.

InnocousFox, thanks for the pics. If more people knew what we do they might have a better grip of the situation.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: ORD Delays A Daily Thing

Wed May 19, 2004 2:24 am

It seems to me that Vivavegas' signature has the right idea. MKE is closer than MDW (and closer than Peotone and Gary) for many in the North suburbs of Chicago and already has passenger facilities in place, but the YX hub and the NW focus city (is it even officially a focus city?) operation are not enough to draw many of those looking for the multitude of direct flights offered by ORD to MKE.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
J32driver
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RE: ORD Delays A Daily Thing

Wed May 19, 2004 2:48 am

MKE is NOT the answer. Of all the airports that I fly to on a weekly basis, MKE has the most jacked up ATC system that I've seen. They went through an airspace change a couple of years ago to alleviate pressure on ORD center. Ever since then, the arrival and departure gates are absolutely rigid. You are forced to fly away from the airport and then come back at it whethere there is opposing traffic or not. Prior to the airspace change, I could fly from ORD to MKE in 16 minutes of flight time. Now, you are hard pressed to make the leg in less than 25 minutes of air time.

As far as getting back to ORD, the closer the airport, the longer the delay. Sat on the ground in MKE for HOURS waiting for my time slot back to ORD.
 
7e72004
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RE: ORD Delays A Daily Thing

Wed May 19, 2004 2:52 am

Gary is not exactly the nicest area right now..granted the airport i am sure is safe but i would rather drive to MKE.
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
Cubsrule
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RE: ORD Delays A Daily Thing

Wed May 19, 2004 2:58 am

Is the ORD-MKE segment really the best criterion with which to judge ATC at MKE? A "rigid" runway assignment is going to affect a 60 mile segment from ORD much more than a 600 mile segment from ATL. It's also worth noting that if ORD weren't so congested, it would be easier for controllers at MKE to manage arrivals and departures without deviations such as those you describe.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: ORD Delays A Daily Thing

Wed May 19, 2004 3:18 am

American could easily deal with a rule requiring all aircraft into ORD to be 100-seats or larger, simply by moving all of the (seemingly thousands and thousands) of Regional Jets to STL...it's United that would have problems re-allocating their RJ's (Denver? Dulles? A new hub?)...heck, let's have STL have 500 daily departures, with all of them RJ's except for hourly Super-80's to DFW, MIA, and ORD (doable now, particularly from ORD, due to the acquired feed) and have 200 all-mainline flights from ORD...good god, the sky is falling...
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aa777jr
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RE: ORD Delays A Daily Thing

Wed May 19, 2004 3:27 am

Have flown ORD-CDG, ORD-LHR, and ORD-BRU. Every flight has been delayed for some reason, most popular is waiting on the jetway to blast off. Cheers.
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
vivavegas
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RE: ORD Delays A Daily Thing

Wed May 19, 2004 3:43 am

"InnocuousFox: If you limit the RJ traffic, you will limit the destinations served. UA/AA will simply not be able to serve smaller markets from ORD. Also, remember that the RJs are replacing props for the most part. Those were more of a pain for ATC than the RJs are."

This is a bunch of hooey! Take MKE for example, United Express has 12 r/t's MKE-ORD per day, this could easily be address with 4 Airbii flights per day. YES, this would create longer waits for passengers for a connecting flight, but would passengers rather wait in the terminal or in line, 22nd for departure?

UA/AA have no one to blame but them selves for this issue at O'Hare, and pissing away BILLIONS in Peotone will not fix this problem.

Craig
MKE - Chicago's True Third Airport




[Edited 2004-05-18 20:46:35]
MKE / EYW / LAS - The true trifecta of aviation!
 
7e72004
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RE: ORD Delays A Daily Thing

Wed May 19, 2004 3:53 am

Just use the A380 on the MKE-ORD runs when it starts flying  Big thumbs up
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
InnocuousFox
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RE: ORD Delays A Daily Thing

Wed May 19, 2004 4:28 am

"This is a bunch of hooey! Take MKE for example..."

I wasn't talking about MKE. I was talking about the DOZENS of smaller cities and towns that get an RJ or 2 per day. You can't narrow those down into an A319. Just looking at the UA route map around the ORD area - CID, MSN, FWA, LAN, GRB, CMH, DAY, APE, etc...

Sure, some RJs can be trimmed from high-frequency routes, but there are a LOT that are used on the smaller markets that, if you take away the RJs, may not get service at all.
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
 
InnocuousFox
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RE: ORD Delays A Daily Thing

Wed May 19, 2004 4:36 am

Updated for the 1430-1630 time frame:



Also, take a look at THESE streams. The JVL STAR is particularly impressive (NW). Red/Green is ORD in/out. Orange/Blue is MDW in/out.



Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
 
atcboy73
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RE: ORD Delays A Daily Thing

Wed May 19, 2004 4:43 am

Thats why Im a controller.

Its a beautiful thing isn't it.
 
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Coronado990
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RE: ORD Delays A Daily Thing

Wed May 19, 2004 4:53 am

Why does ORD need to get bigger and bigger to serve so many connecting passengers when, in the near future, it will hardly be able to handle it's own O&D traffic?

In the meantime, mid-size cities such as MKE, STL and IND are begging for non-stop flights. Chicago can fill non-stops to most cities around the country, large and small, based on it's shear size and the MKE, STL & IND's of the world can only fill non-stops to other mid-size cities when augmented with connecting traffic. So in the long term, it would seem that, with future growth, mid-size cities would be more likely candidates for connecting "facilities" then Chicago. If I lived in Chicago, I would hate to have to sit at the end of the runway for 2 hours when you realize half the planes out there are so Joe can connect from Des Moines to Raleigh.
We're up.
 
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jsnww81
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RE: ORD Delays A Daily Thing

Wed May 19, 2004 5:19 am

@InnocuousFox:

You're absolutely right in saying that the RJs serve a vital role providing service to places like Dubuque, Cedar Rapids, Madison, South Bend, etc., etc. I hope I didn't come across sounding like I want the little buggers banned from ORD entirely.

I was actually very excited when the regional jets first appeared - and thought it was great when American Eagle went all-jet at O'Hare. But in the past two years, American has simply gotten too carried away with the regional jets. Routes to Washington DC, upstate New York, the major Ohio cities (CVG/CLE/CMH), Omaha and the like could easily be served with four or five mainline flights instead of eight or nine regional jets.

The regional jets definitely have a role at O'Hare... I was always under the impression they'd be taking over for the larger turboprops (which are now enjoying a blissful retirement flying AA's Caribbean routes!). Instead, United and American are using them to replace mainline flying - hence the resulting delays. I'm sure glad, when I'm sitting on the tarmac waiting for an ORD slot, that I have the "benefit" of more regional jet frequencies.
 
LambertMan
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RE: ORD Delays A Daily Thing

Wed May 19, 2004 5:34 am

Coronado,
Some may call this home bias, but IND and MKE are not in the same league as STL is....
 
Okie
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RE: ORD Delays A Daily Thing

Wed May 19, 2004 6:01 am

The situation is that somewhere down the line that ORD will have to go to a totally slot type operation. It will not be this year or next but somewhere in the future it will be.
Those 8x per day flights by RJ's to a particular destination are just holding position for future growth until the powers that be start determining how many slots per day each operator gets.
In the mean time the flying public gets the benefit of multiple flights per day to their destination. The operator gets to hold you captive in its hub and spoke system.
Yeah, and its tough sitting on a gate hold or the taxiway waiting for a landing slot when you are hour or more away from ORD, DFW or any hub for that matter. Largely because when you look out the window of the aircraft you are riding on at the gate at Smallville there is nothing really tangible to see but maybe two other aircraft and your thought process rings the "Conflict" alarm.

10 years down the line the STL's, IND's will look different than today as relief will be needed for the major hubs, however that growth will be a few flights at a time. There won't be any headlines that read additional 100 flights per day added to STL starting next week.

Okie
 
tekelberry
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RE: ORD Delays A Daily Thing

Wed May 19, 2004 6:05 am

The delays recently have been caused by the weather. We've had a lot of thunderstorms, wind, and low ceilings lately in the midwest.
 
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Coronado990
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RE: ORD Delays A Daily Thing

Wed May 19, 2004 6:12 am

LambertMan:

Sorry, I'm just pulling for you to get a true hub in there.

San Diego and St. Louis are about the same size and we get that sort of thing here all the time. What size would you call our cities? Between Mid-size and Mega? I didn't want to get to technical as location was what I was going for. STL, MKE and IND make a nice triangle around ORD.

Coronado990
We're up.
 
planespotting
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RE: ORD Delays A Daily Thing

Wed May 19, 2004 7:10 am

how the hell can we access those awesome shots of the radar picture. gosh.....
Do you like movies about gladiators?
 
InnocuousFox
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Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:30 am

RE: ORD Delays A Daily Thing

Wed May 19, 2004 7:30 am

"how the hell can we access those awesome shots of the radar picture. gosh....."

Flight Explorer Personal Edition

It does a lot more than that... I was just making filters specific to this thread. Not bad for 10 bones a month!
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
 
LambertMan
Posts: 1740
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:26 pm

RE: ORD Delays A Daily Thing

Wed May 19, 2004 7:32 am

Coronado,

Nevermind I see what you meant, I was thinking if anything it would Kansas City. Good day. Big thumbs up
 
SHUPirate1
Posts: 3428
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2003 2:53 pm

RE: ORD Delays A Daily Thing

Wed May 19, 2004 8:56 am

Don't get me wrong, I agree with slot controls. However, I agree with slot controls only as far as it conforms to capacity of the airport. There is no reason why Long Beach International Airport should be restricted to 41 flights per day by the same NIMBY's who should have known that the airport was going to create noise when they moved in. That said, if LaGuardia moved away from slot controls, Delta, US Airways, and American would all schedule 500 flights per day in/out of the airport, US Airways' 5:45 flight to Charlotte (the first one of the day, by any airline) would never leave on time due to residual delays from the night before, delays would be so bad...how does this sound for legislation: no passenger leaving from an airport within 250 miles of ORD is allowed to use ORD as a connecting airport unless they are travelling to another airport within 250 miles of ORD, or have no other options (this could also be a nice baseline for other airports, to get rid of the silly half-hourly Brasilias between SAN and LAX on UAX/Skywest, and the half-hourly Saabs between SAN and LAX on MQ)...
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
nwa man
Posts: 1752
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 1999 3:24 am

RE: ORD Delays A Daily Thing

Wed May 19, 2004 9:35 am

This is a bunch of hooey! Take MKE for example, United Express has 12 r/t's MKE-ORD per day, this could easily be address with 4 Airbii flights per day.


...or 6 RJ flights a day - oh wait, it already is, considering all the daily UAX cancellations on this particular route.

Face it - ORD is dramatically overscheduled, and the misallocation of far too many regional jets to cities like MKE, STL, CVG, and IND is one of the main causes of this problem.



Regards,

N-Dub
Create your own luck.
 
InnocuousFox
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:30 am

RE: ORD Delays A Daily Thing

Wed May 19, 2004 12:03 pm

I don't agree that anyone should step in and regulate it with arbitrary rules and thresholds, however. The airlines themselves suffer the most because of the delays they create - either directly due to logistical nightmares or indirectly because passengers stop using them. Adding more rules only complicates matters in the long run. Let the airlines sort it out themselves or suffer the consequences.
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!

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