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Bruce
Posts: 4947
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RE: Independence Air Is Live!

Thu May 20, 2004 12:23 am

I don't see HSV and BHM on that list on their site.... what happened?? They dropped us before they started??!!???

bruce
Bruce Leibowitz - Jackson, MS (KJAN) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
 
Bicoastal
Posts: 2446
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 1999 5:56 am

RE: Independence Air Is Live!

Thu May 20, 2004 12:27 am

"Something akin to The Southwest Effect. The airline will most probably get people who weren't using other carriers at all!"

Hmmmm....more Walmart flyers from the trailer parks who don't have a clue about flying? Let's hope not!

Good luck to all at the new airline. However, as a loyal United frequent flyer, I won't make the switch....I fly international and transcon frequently and I-Air won't meet my needs. Good luck, though.
Airliners.net has many forums. It has spell check and search functions. Use them before posting!
 
ny-jfk-lga
Posts: 331
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2000 2:09 am

RE: Independence Air Is Live!

Thu May 20, 2004 12:30 am

Greg, this is the first airline to do this with RJ's. It has not been done before, so we don't know what its going to turn out like. Don't predict, there's no history of an airline like this. Give it an even chance like every other airline out there. I for one think its a great idea. I for one am looking out for success and I personally will be someone there contributing to the success. I'm a Delta Connection FA in BOS and as our base closes on Jul 1st, I'll be moving to IAD to take as much of this indy operation into my own lil' hands as possible. Watch out, because this is a reality! Gonna be one of the very BEST out there!
Bring back McDonnell Douglas & T W A!!
 
GSPSPOT
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RE: Independence Air Is Live!

Thu May 20, 2004 12:34 am

Ny-jfk-lga:

What will the inflight experience be like? Any IFE planned (even if in the future)? For longer flights, will any type of snack or food service be available (even for purchase)?
Great Lakes, great life.
 
BILLAMT
Posts: 88
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 10:31 am

RE: Independence Air Is Live!

Thu May 20, 2004 12:40 am

Talked with a few buddies over at ACA, and CASM will be high initially. Somewhere around 13-14 cents. BUT as the rest of the RJ's come on line, and eventually the 319's the CASM will drop to right around 7-8 cents. Jet Blue is currently 6 cents. 7-8 cents is pretty good fellas. With IFE in every seat, no over booking, and simple fares people will have to be crazy to keep paying the hig fares currently in various markets. Sure DL and UAL can match fares, but the difference is that Indy is designed to operate with $50 dollar flights, and DL and UAL aren't. Even if they do fail, they are gonna put huge dents in already sick companies in the process ( UAL ).
 
Hannigan
Topic Author
Posts: 316
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RE: Independence Air Is Live!

Thu May 20, 2004 12:41 am

GSPSPOT - Leather seats, hot towels, sun chips, hot tea, and the usual soft drinks etc. Airbus aircraft will have sat TV in EVERY seatback!
We got planes! We got gates! What the hell!
 
ual777contrail
Posts: 2914
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RE: Independence Air Is Live!

Thu May 20, 2004 12:42 am

ATCBOY73,
20 min turns? They CANT do 20 minute turns now, what makes you think they will do it then?

7E72004,
Maybe the bashing comes from the airline under UAL sucks and chances are they will under I-AIR.
You will eat your words when they fold.

UAL 777 CONTRAIL
 
ny-jfk-lga
Posts: 331
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2000 2:09 am

RE: Independence Air Is Live!

Thu May 20, 2004 12:43 am

The inflight experience should be really nice, different I think. I haven't been thru the "branding" training yet. I really don't know too much about the service, however I do know that at all hours on at least the iJet flights you'll have the choice of a quaker oats fruit n' nut breakfast bar, a bag of cookies, pretzels and or sun chips. As for IFE, that will only be on the 319/320's. The typical satellite TV these days I think. On the airbuses there will also be buy on board meals in addition to the snacks above I think. I hope this was useful info for ya.
Bring back McDonnell Douglas & T W A!!
 
BILLAMT
Posts: 88
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RE: Independence Air Is Live!

Thu May 20, 2004 12:44 am

ATCBOY73,
20 min turns? They CANT do 20 minute turns now, what makes you think they will do it then?

7E72004,
Maybe the bashing comes from the airline under UAL sucks and chances are they will under I-AIR.
You will eat your words when they fold.

UAL 777 CONTRAIL




And let the bitterness begin!!!! Wipe your tears my friend.
 
Hannigan
Topic Author
Posts: 316
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RE: Independence Air Is Live!

Thu May 20, 2004 12:44 am

Here come the UA guys lol. Sorry chaps!
We got planes! We got gates! What the hell!
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
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RE: Independence Air Is Live!

Thu May 20, 2004 12:51 am

ACA sucks. Badly. I see no reason to believe they'll be able to operate a 30 minute turn when right now they can't turn an RJ in 120 minutes.

They've never had a 350/day flight schedule before, so that'll be extra trying.

N
 
GSPSPOT
Posts: 2589
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RE: Independence Air Is Live!

Thu May 20, 2004 12:52 am

Thanks, Ny-jfk-lga! I can't wait to try it out.
Great Lakes, great life.
 
ny-jfk-lga
Posts: 331
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2000 2:09 am

RE: Independence Air Is Live!

Thu May 20, 2004 12:59 am

There are lots of people on here who do not want to give us a chance. But you know what, we've got a hell of a lot more chances than those people who do not want to give us any. We've got millions of more chances than just the few of you. We're here and we're probably gonna be in your face whether you like it or not. We hope for the best when it comes to success and we're gonna try our very best to make it happen. The last time I replied to an independence post, there were no more replies after mine, why? Becuase no bad put-downs could be thought of to say after that? Stop putting people down, period. Theres got to be a reason why some of you people put us down like this. Try to be happy for us. If you were in my shoes you'd probably know what I mean. We are nice people who only want the very best for our customers and employees, that's all. If you're still going to be persistent with negativity, we can be stronger and more powerful than you. Bring it on.




How will you achieve Independence?
Bring back McDonnell Douglas & T W A!!
 
UN_B732
Posts: 3532
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RE: Independence Air Is Live!

Thu May 20, 2004 1:00 am

What terminal is JFK going to be using??
Any ideas of when I can find out when flyI freebies are headed to BTV?
-Mr. X
What now?
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: Independence Air Is Live!

Thu May 20, 2004 1:01 am

By the way, I am surprised nobody saw this----WHERE IS LA GUARDIA? It is one of there busiest routes! I did an internship last summer--LGA was always overbooked!
Where is it?

PJ
 
alphascan
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RE: Independence Air Is Live!

Thu May 20, 2004 1:04 am

$25.00 iad-jfk!...even if you fill up the crj you are looking at 1250.00....



UALContrail:

Offering a fare at a certain price does not mean EVERY seat is for sale at that fare.
"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
 
uadc8contrail
Posts: 1666
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RE: Independence Air Is Live!

Thu May 20, 2004 1:12 am

alphascan,
was posted on the aca employee site that all iad-jfk seats are capped at 25.00 o/w...didnt say if it was introductory but i would bet that they will raise the fare later on...........
Bus Driver
 
BILLAMT
Posts: 88
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RE: Independence Air Is Live!

Thu May 20, 2004 1:14 am

They've never had a 350/day flight schedule before, so that'll be extra trying.


Shows how much you know. ACA operates OVER 800 flights a day now. They have around 150 aircraft fleet.
 
CcrlR
Posts: 2195
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2001 9:24 am

RE: Independence Air Is Live!

Thu May 20, 2004 1:18 am

Look at this
$179.00 from ORD-IAD Roundtrip!!!!
Heart stopping like in Happy Gilmore when he gave that money from the game to the orginization and the guy fell out his seat when he saw the amount of the check.

Looks like the same booking as AirTran and It's great that they are starting out now. Hope to fly them soon!
"He was right, it is a screaming metal deathtrap!"-Cosmo (from the Fairly Oddparents)
 
uadc8contrail
Posts: 1666
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RE: Independence Air Is Live!

Thu May 20, 2004 1:18 am

BILLAMT,
if indy has 800 flts a day now, what are they going to do with the extra pilots and f/a????if my chicago public school education is correct then you are looking at a INITIAL 450 less flights a day. and even if indy throws in new flts every month you will need to maybe do some voluntary lay-offs
Bus Driver
 
Guest

RE: Independence Air Is Live!

Thu May 20, 2004 1:20 am

"...WHERE IS LA GUARDIA?"

So what? It took JetBlue two years to get there. And IndyAir is still a month from its first flight.

 
BILLAMT
Posts: 88
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 10:31 am

RE: Independence Air Is Live!

Thu May 20, 2004 1:24 am

BILLAMT,
if indy has 800 flts a day now, what are they going to do with the extra pilots and f/a????if my chicago public school education is correct then you are looking at a INITIAL 450 less flights a day. and even if indy throws in new flts every month you will need to maybe do some voluntary lay-offs

Actually, not really. 350x2=700 flights daily. The 350 number is IAD departures. And ACA will be operating for some time as DLC still. While some furloughs ( pilots ) may be un-avoidable, its not as bad as it seems. F/A's are safe. Don't forget the BUS needs a minum of 3 per flight.
 
potomac
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RE: Independence Air Is Live!

Thu May 20, 2004 1:25 am

perhaps the gap btwn current ops and planned initial ops can be explained by the transition of aircraft and crew as ACA/UAX ops shift from UA to IAir....since the transition is occurring in phases over the course of the summer, i figured there'd by ACA/IAir assets serving both UA and IAir for some period of time.
 
Guest

RE: Independence Air Is Live!

Thu May 20, 2004 1:25 am

It's true.

A lot of the more bitter, hostile posts are from membership who claim United Airlines allegiance.

Well, I guess that's why they call them "loyalty" programs.  Smile


 
US653
Posts: 160
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RE: Independence Air Is Live!

Thu May 20, 2004 1:27 am

Question about former ACA cities. What is going to happen. Here at PHL we currently get CRJs and J41s to IAD along with some mainline. Will all of those UA flights become mainline? Also, what will be happening to the J41s?

Jeff
US653...PHL-AUA...The best place in the Caribbean!!!
 
CcrlR
Posts: 2195
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RE: Independence Air Is Live!

Thu May 20, 2004 1:48 am

United has some express carriers that will fill the void from ACA.
"He was right, it is a screaming metal deathtrap!"-Cosmo (from the Fairly Oddparents)
 
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Aloha717200
Posts: 3879
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RE: Independence Air Is Live!

Thu May 20, 2004 2:02 am

Hey Hannigan and Ny-jfk-lga, I'm rooting for you guys all the way. Greg's just pessimistic about everything.


But I think you guys can do it, and I'm pretty sure that most of these fares are introductory and will steadily rise as a loyal customer base is built, while still staying well below what the majors are asking for.

The CRJ can be a problem because people do prefer to fly a mainline jet, but with very good service and attractive fares, people will fly a CRJ. Especially it if means not having to pay another 200 dollars with two connections on a major.


About the service: Hot towels? Is that just in F class or are coach pax getting the same service? Or does Independence Air even HAVE a first class. If they don't, that means even more potential butts-in-seats per route, and at low fares that increases the revenue. Very curious. There could be weight issues but putting IFE in a CRJ would be incredible, especially if the majority of flights are operated by the RJs initially.

 
Greg
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RE: Independence Air Is Live!

Thu May 20, 2004 2:23 am

Not a pessimist at all...just a realist.
This airline did not materialize because of it's necessity to fill a marketing gap. It was started because they lost their code-sharing contract and had to do SOMETHING.

Again, you can't run a LCC with regional jets--the cost is just too high. And since they will be the prominent component of the fleet for many years--it's easy to speculate that profits will be very hard to come by....

Like I said, give 'em six months..maybe a bit longer since they have some capital...then the competition will drive them into oblivion.....
 
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Aloha717200
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RE: Independence Air Is Live!

Thu May 20, 2004 2:31 am

As I understand it, they didn't lose their code-sharing contract, they decided to terminate it. United wanted to keep them on but ACA didn't like the terms of the agreement and broke away to become their own airline. This was ACA's choice, not United's.

I am of the belief that they CAN run an LCC with RJs if they play their cards right. Remember that they are bringing Airbus mainliners into the system as well, and as those arrive the airline will end up becoming more of a mainline operation than an RJ operation, despite those RJs actually BEING mainline.

It also depends on their service and price. If I can fly an RJ and get service that none of the majors can compare to, while paying only 75% of the price, you bet I'd do it. Service, and price, will get them far. Impress the pax from the get-go and you get not only repeat customers but also a good reputation that will be spread by word of mouth that will grow your base even larger. Considering the alternatives, I think they have a real chance of success here.


If all anyone ever did was listen to "realists" who said it couldn't be done, we'd still be crossing the United States in horsedrawn carriage. Give 'em a chance Greg, realistically, they have a chance.
 
caetravlr
Posts: 865
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RE: Independence Air Is Live!

Thu May 20, 2004 2:32 am

Don't confuse bitter with skeptical guys. I know some people don't give it a snowball's chance. I am not one of those, I am just a little leery, and certainly would not invest in it. However, that does not mean they are doomed, it just means I am anxious to see what their plans are for becoming profitable, and how long it will be before they hit break even. However a lot of the operational concerns that people expressed before are still valid. It was quite a shoddy operation as United Express, hopefully some changes have been made.
A woman drove me to drink and I didn't have the decency to thank her. - W.C. Fields
 
potomac
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RE: Independence Air Is Live!

Thu May 20, 2004 2:35 am

sorry, but that's just not how it panned out. they didnt LOSE their code-sharing contract (first of all, it wasn't a code share), they opted not to renew the contract to serve as an UAX feeder 1) because they didn't see the terms working favorably for them and 2) because there was and is a market opportunity they wanted to fill.

that market opportunity - as we have discussed - is largely based on offering lower fare service on routes where low fare service currently doesnt exist. its not about just competing against other LCCs on their same routes.

i dont think you or any of us can say with any certainty that you cant run an LCC with RJs. at best, the people who decided it was feasible have done more homework on it than you have.




 
Hannigan
Topic Author
Posts: 316
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RE: Independence Air Is Live!

Thu May 20, 2004 2:38 am

Aloha - It's ALL first class my friend!  Big grin
We got planes! We got gates! What the hell!
 
Greg
Posts: 5539
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:11 am

RE: Independence Air Is Live!

Thu May 20, 2004 2:52 am

Well....UA and US have done plenty of homework...and look where they ended up! So have DL and AA and they are barely hanging on. So please, don't espouse the 'they know better than anybody' attitude. It doesn't hold water.

And yes, you can argue all you want about 'who' wanted the agreement dissolved....but it was initially UA's dissatisfaction that lead to the bad feelings between the groups.

If they do well...then great! I'm just the realist--it's a weak business plan (at best).

If you had the money to invest...is this where you'd put it?

I didn't think so.
 
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Aloha717200
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RE: Independence Air Is Live!

Thu May 20, 2004 2:52 am

What kind of seating arrangement are we looking at in the CRJs and A319s, Hannigan? Meaning, how many seats have you got on each plane?

If you're serious about it all being first class, then that could be a problem since that is fewer paying pax per flight paying lower fares...not necessarily good for the bottom line. See Midwest Express.
 
GSPSPOT
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RE: Independence Air Is Live!

Thu May 20, 2004 2:56 am

PLEASE FORGIVE ME if this has already been asked, but I'm at work, and didn't have time to scan all the posts... What happens with current UA Express flights to/from IAD after ACA becomes Idependence Air in a given city?
Great Lakes, great life.
 
uadc8contrail
Posts: 1666
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:23 am

RE: Independence Air Is Live!

Thu May 20, 2004 3:02 am

aloha717,
if we are to give INDY a chance then i expect those of us that say give them a chance to give TED a chance.
Bus Driver
 
potomac
Posts: 692
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 5:06 am

RE: Independence Air Is Live!

Thu May 20, 2004 3:11 am

counselor, you're comparing apples to oranges. the mainline carriers have suffered their problems because they have tried or been forced to change the way they operate, all at the mercy of a complex and restictive operating model. IAir is starting from a very different point.

regardless, you cant seriously think that IAir hasn't considered the traditionally higher CASM of RJs and how they plan on mitigating that in their business model, do you? if someone form that camp were in on the discussion, i think they'd have more evidence to present on why it would work than you have offered as to why it wouldnt.

it seems like you make a lot of shoot from the hip generalizations about IAir's potential, not to mention the manner in which your arguments dont appear to be based on substantive facts or evidence. is that how YOU choose to invest?
 
GSPSPOT
Posts: 2589
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:44 am

RE: Independence Air Is Live!

Thu May 20, 2004 3:14 am

I just don't see a big difference between flying in an RJ and flying on "mainline" jets. Sure, mainliners are wider across, but I find equivalent personal space and "ride quality" on RJ's. Plus they load & unload quicker. I'm looking forward to flying Indy Air!
Great Lakes, great life.
 
potomac
Posts: 692
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 5:06 am

RE: Independence Air Is Live!

Thu May 20, 2004 3:16 am

GPSPSOT - UA has already begun to bring in other regional carriers to fill the void left as ACA/IAir moves out. the service will be replaced as ACA stops flying the routes, though not right away or at the same levels of service to start. i'm not sure if they will look to ultimately restore the same previous levels of service, or if they will utilize or mainline aircraft, rtc.

UA has started operating its non-ACA express service out of the C and D terminals at IAD. in addition, it is completing a new regional terminal on the F ramp, south of the D terminal on the ramp that will eventually house the new, permanent midfield gates.
 
BILLAMT
Posts: 88
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 10:31 am

RE: Independence Air Is Live!

Thu May 20, 2004 3:19 am

Well....UA and US have done plenty of homework...and look where they ended up! So have DL and AA and they are barely hanging on. So please, don't espouse the 'they know better than anybody' attitude. It doesn't hold water.

Your very right, US has done its homework and is pushing for a majority RJ fleet. I've got an uncle over at US flying the 767, and US actually wants to replace its 737's with the new EMB. US wants to go point to point and utilize the new EMB's for that purpose.


aloha717,
if we are to give INDY a chance then i expect those of us that say give them a chance to give TED a chance.

There is a difference here. Indy is a stand alone carrier, while TED is a airline within an airline operating at mainline costs ( meaning pilots and F/A's all make the same regardless of weather its a UA or TED flight ). TED is not a true LCC for that very reason. Just look at Song, same thing there. Those are Delta pilots flying for 200K a yr, and using a Delta call sign. Same goes for TED. United used its size to simply move and repaint 320's and declair it a LCC.

Independence has much lower costs ( employees ) and is pushing for a true LCC, not mainline disguised as one. And look at the prices, TED isn't that cheap. Plus Indy with all seats having PTV's like Jet Blue, rather than the flip downs. Its more personal.
_____
If you're serious about it all being first class, then that could be a problem since that is fewer paying pax per flight paying lower fares...not necessarily good for the bottom line. See Midwest Express.
_____

I think what he meant was that you will be treated like your in F class. Indy will have one class, and is pushing to treat all pax as if it was first class. No it will not be a flying lounge. 132 seats ( typical is a one class config for a 319 ) and 50 seats ( again typical for an RJ ). So no, they will not be installing lazy boys, but from what i've been told and seen pictures of, the new seats that will be going in the RJ and the Bus are all new, and not currently used by anyone else. They are supposed to be very comfy.

Oh and to clear one thing up, the RJ will not have PTV's, its not practicle, and your right; weight would become an issue.
 
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Aloha717200
Posts: 3879
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2003 4:50 am

RE: Independence Air Is Live!

Thu May 20, 2004 3:23 am

aloha717,
if we are to give INDY a chance then i expect those of us that say give them a chance to give TED a chance.



 Confused I never said anything about Ted. I think Ted is going to succeed for the most part. Where did Ted come into this?
 
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Aloha717200
Posts: 3879
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2003 4:50 am

RE: Independence Air Is Live!

Thu May 20, 2004 3:30 am

Oh and to clear one thing up, the RJ will not have PTV's


That's what I thought. However I wonder if it would be practical to install audio IFE in the aircraft. If not, then there's always those things, i forget what they're called...they're these portable IFE things that you can rent for a flight. AS uses them.
 
SHUPirate1
Posts: 3428
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2003 2:53 pm

RE: Independence Air Is Live!

Thu May 20, 2004 3:32 am

My question here isn't whether Independence Air will be able to survive...my question is whether United will be able to keep their high-fare haven at Dulles without closing...without question, yields will drop like a brick on some of these routes...as a result, I can't help but think that, should I-Air survive for longer than a couple of months, that United may be the people running out with their tails between their legs...let's compare frequencies (note: UA flights include UAX flights):

ORD: 8 on UA, 12 on DH
EWR: 7 on UA, 16 on DH
BOS: 9 on UA, 16 on DH
RDU: 7 on UA, 14 on DH
ATL: 6 on UA, 16 on DH
HPN: 3 on UA, 5 on DH
PWM: 3 on UA, 6 on DH
ORF: 5 on UA, 8 on DH
CAE: 4 on UA, 7 on DH
SYR: 4 on UA, 8 on DH
BNA: 3 on UA, 7 on DH
JAX: 4 on UA, 7 on DH
LAN: 0 on UA, 7 on DH
BTV: 4 on UA, 5 on DH
CHS: 4 on UA, 7 on DH
BUF: 4 on UA, 8 on DH
ROC: 4 on UA, 8 on DH
GSP: 3 on UA, 8 on DH
TYS: 3 on UA, 6 on DH
CRW: 3 on UA, 6 on DH
MHT: 4 on UA, 9 on DH
ALB: 4 on UA, 7 on DH
SAV: 3 on UA, 6 on DH
GSO: 4 on UA, 9 on DH
CLE: 4 on UA, 9 on DH
JFK: 7 on UA, 17 on DH
CMH: 4 on UA, 8 on DH
DAY: 3 on UA, 8 on DH
IND: 4 on UA, 7 on DH
BDL: 5 on UA, 8 on DH
PIT: 4 on UA, 8 on DH
PVD: 4 on UA, 8 on DH
DTW: 4 on UA, 8 on DH
SDF: 0 on UA, 6 on DH
SWF: 0 on UA, 6 on DH

As you can tell, I-Air beats UA on frequencies into every single market, and even if they fail, they very well might hang on long enough to bring United's Dulles fortress down with them...
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
potomac
Posts: 692
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 5:06 am

RE: Independence Air Is Live!

Thu May 20, 2004 3:40 am

there's no doubt that the overlap of UA and IAir routes will make for an interesting battle. however, you didn't list all of the current routes that UA flies which IAir isnt planning on. among them are the transcons, carribbean, latin american, and european routes. UA may lose out on those going IAD-BOS or PVD-JAX, but they should retain those going DEN-CDG, BDL-SFO, IAD-SEA, etc. i dont think it will drive UA out of IAD, but it may likely change the nature of their hub operations there.
 
BILLAMT
Posts: 88
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 10:31 am

RE: Independence Air Is Live!

Thu May 20, 2004 3:43 am

Keep in mind that most of those cities listed are technically not served by UA. Its Mesa, and Tran State, Shuttle America, Air Wiskey....anybody starting to think of another ORD disaster in the making? Now UA has to hope that the crews of these feeders are good to the pax. Indy F/A's are sure going to be.

Just like I said, even if Indy fails: they will smash a huge hole in UAL's revenue into and out of IAD. And right when UAL needs it most. And they will be around for a yr or more, they have a huge cash reserve. Contrary to what some think, they will not go away over night. People simply need to face the facts that this airline is coming regardless if you like the idea or not. And for DC area and the smaller markets, this is in your favor!!!! Prices will never be the same in Dulles again. Want to visit you friend at away at college for the weekend in LAN, now you can without taking a personal loan from a bank. What the hell is so wrong with that?!? Do you actually enjoy paying 500 dollars for a 300 mi flight?
 
DCA-ROCguy
Posts: 4207
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2000 5:03 am

RE: Independence Air Is Live!

Thu May 20, 2004 3:52 am

God speed to Independence Air. I fall somewhere between Greg and Aloha on the optimism scale....running low-fare service with RJ's is going to be tough, but if anyone can do it, Kerry Skeen can. ROC has eight dailies on day one--over twice the seat capacity United Express currently runs on ROC-IAD. AirTran pulls a lot of Balto people on BWI-ROC, so I'd imagine the two carriers will coexist at ROC pretty well.

DOJ should watch United like a hawk, but I suspect they won't find much under current law. Antitrust law is already well behind the times because it doesn't account for FF promotions, which work like cash. UA's FF promos for Dulles are very predatory, so they probably won't need to resort to fare predation. Also, Indy Air is running much more seat capacity than UA does on some current routes, so capacity dumping is not likely to be an issue.

Indy's going to have a few other unexpected drags this summer, we'll see how things go. First, Dulles of course is going to be a mess this summer because the east-west runway is closed for repairs. The FAA is rattling its saber about Dulles congestion and raising the possibility of forced schedule cuts there like they're doing at ORD.

United and Indy would bear the brunt of that at IAD, since the two of them together will easily make up 80 percent of a/c movements. I wonder if some of the absences on the list--like BHM and HSV mentioned--are cities likely to be added later in the fall after the runway reopens.

Second, TSA is warning about longer security lines--possibly over a couple of hours at DC area airports. Congress cut funds this spring and TSA cut from 55,000 to 45,000 screeners nationwide--just as air travel is picking up. Smooth move, Hill critters. And TSA's track record doesn't foster confidence.

Finally, the current BS high oil prices aren't going to help Indy's launch. Good thing they have $350 million, they're going need a good chunk of it to get through the first year.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
iowaman
Posts: 3864
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 2:29 am

RE: Independence Air Is Live!

Thu May 20, 2004 4:02 am

I know this is kidna off the subject, but what will happen to Atlantic Coast Airline's stock? Will it "become" Independence Air stock? Any input would be helpful
 
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ERJ170
Posts: 5925
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:15 am

RE: Independence Air Is Live!

Thu May 20, 2004 4:03 am

Yeah, but you always have to figure on a lost the first (maybe even second) year in a business. That is part of the business plan. I'm sure they have taken all of this into consideration and I believe they will do just fine in their endeavors.

The security lines and lack of airport runway may make a bother, but it will do the same for all the other airlines at Dulles, so it's an overall problem. DH will do just fine and I wish them well...

But perhaps they should start looking at another mini-hub location...
Aiming High and going far..
 
potomac
Posts: 692
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 5:06 am

RE: Independence Air Is Live!

Thu May 20, 2004 4:08 am

DCA-ROC - excellent points...some might say that the success of IAir at IAD rests largely on the government - through FAA and TSA. i know that there have been various discussions between FAA, TSA, MWAA and airlines (IAir and UA included) about the potential passenger impact with the summer travel season approaching.

but TSA apparently has a plan to accomodate things this summer, and i'll give them the benefit of the doubt until things go bad. i believe they are briefing various parties on this in the next few weeks - i'll post what i hear or get a hold of.

 
BILLAMT
Posts: 88
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 10:31 am

RE: Independence Air Is Live!

Thu May 20, 2004 4:09 am

I know this is kidna off the subject, but what will happen to Atlantic Coast Airline's stock? Will it "become" Independence Air stock? Any input would be helpful
______
I've heard that ACAI ( parent company ) will become flyi.com. ACA will obviously name change to Independence. As to what the stock identifier will be, who knows?? And yes, they are anticipating a loss, that has been factored in.

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