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sfointern
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Largest Plane Ever Flown Into LGA

Tue Jun 08, 2004 4:47 am

What is the largest aircraft ever flown into LaGuardia? What is the largest aircraft regularly flown into LaGuardia today?
 
Greg
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RE: Largest Plane Ever Flown Into LGA

Tue Jun 08, 2004 4:48 am

Used to have regular DC-10 service from UA, AA, and maybe (?) National.
Has DL 764 service now...
 
ACAfan
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RE: Largest Plane Ever Flown Into LGA

Tue Jun 08, 2004 5:07 am

Does the 764 have restrictions? Can it fly transatlanticaly?
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WindowSeat
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RE: Largest Plane Ever Flown Into LGA

Tue Jun 08, 2004 5:25 am



Flew DL 764 into ATL yesterday. I think thats the largest bird currently. Also, interesting thing to note was that we had exited the runway with 3000 ft of runway left. LGA runways are 7000 ft long.

cheers

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September11
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RE: Largest Plane Ever Flown Into LGA

Tue Jun 08, 2004 5:25 am

LGA is like DCA. No oversea flights.
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ACAfan
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RE: Largest Plane Ever Flown Into LGA

Tue Jun 08, 2004 5:29 am

LGA is like DCA. No oversea flights.

That I know.

I was curious as to whether such flights were theoretically possible. Does the weight of a widebody shorten the range such that it is impossible to fly?
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SafetyDude
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RE: Largest Plane Ever Flown Into LGA

Tue Jun 08, 2004 5:32 am

There was a topic a while ago similar to this. It turned out that a Beluga had to fly in for an AC 319/320 that had some issue.

 Smile
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"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
WindowSeat
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RE: Largest Plane Ever Flown Into LGA

Tue Jun 08, 2004 5:35 am


September11, I'm sure you mean 'overseas' flights, and not over-the-sea flights.

Air Canada flies into LGA, so thats technically International.

ACAfan, LGA's short runways are definitely a limiting factor for long flights especially on widebodies. I'm sure someone here can elaborate on the limitations.

cheers




I'm all in favour of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with keyboards.
 
ltbewr
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RE: Largest Plane Ever Flown Into LGA

Tue Jun 08, 2004 5:54 am

Weren't L-1011's also designed to be used at LGA? I believe the L1011's and the DC-10-10's were specifically designed for flights to/from ORD, MIA for the respective airlines that wanted to operate them. Probably 767's are the largest operated there today. NW and others operate 757's out of LGA.
 
nycfuturepilot
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RE: Largest Plane Ever Flown Into LGA

Tue Jun 08, 2004 6:16 am

Why arent they allowed to do transatlantic (ie what is the motive behind the law.) An airline could make a killing with LGA- LHR.
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wannabe
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RE: Largest Plane Ever Flown Into LGA

Tue Jun 08, 2004 6:42 am

I believe it has to do with load limits on runways. Runway 4/22 is built on a pier that juts out into Long Island Sound. I believe that a fully loaded and fully fueled widebody would exceed the design limits of the pier.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Largest Plane Ever Flown Into LGA

Tue Jun 08, 2004 7:24 am

Ok, this is where it gets weird - comparing the dimensions and MGTOW of the three largest aircraft to regularly serve LGA:

L-1011 (EA, DL) : length 177' 8'' wingspan 155' 4'' MGTOW 430,000lbs

DC-10 (AA) : length 182' 1'' wingspan 165' 5'' MGTOW 580,000lbs

B-767-400 (DL) : length 201' 4'' wingspan 170' 4'' MGTOW 450,000lbs


So the 764 is the longest and largest, but the DC-10 was the heaviest - but then again, it's unlikely that the DC-10 or 764 have gone out of LGA at anything close to MGTOW, since they're long-haul aircraft.

Since the L-1011s used by EA were primarily shorthaul aircraft, it's possible they would have been packed closer to their MGTOW than either the 764 or D10.

So what's the largest? It's one of those three - take your pick based on what fits your agenda.  Big grin

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FoxBravo
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RE: Largest Plane Ever Flown Into LGA

Tue Jun 08, 2004 7:27 am

Good answer, EA_CO_AS.  Smile

Weren't L-1011's also designed to be used at LGA?

Yes, many L-1011s flew in and out of LGA "back in the day." I personally remember flying Eastern L-1011s from there to Florida (and have the safety cards to prove it, hehehe). Other L-1011 operators at LGA included DL and TW.

LGA's short runways are definitely a limiting factor for long flights especially on widebodies.

This is true, but it's not the only factor. As Wannabe rightly pointed out, LGA's runways are built partially over the water, and the pilings can only support so much weight, so that must also be taken into consideration.

Why arent they allowed to do transatlantic (ie what is the motive behind the law.)

It has always been my understanding that the so-called "perimeter rule," which limits LGA service to flights within 1500 miles (except DEN, and except on Saturdays, but that's a whole other discussion), is intended primarily to protect JFK, just as similar rules at DCA and DAL are designed to protect IAD and DFW, respectively. If LGA were left open to all international flights (within technical limitations, of course), JFK would suffer.

Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
dl757md
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RE: Largest Plane Ever Flown Into LGA

Tue Jun 08, 2004 7:35 am

I think DL used to have daily SLC-LGA. Can anybody confirm? If so was there an exemption from the perimeter rule as with DEN?
757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
FoxBravo
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RE: Largest Plane Ever Flown Into LGA

Tue Jun 08, 2004 7:41 am

I know DL has flown SLC-JFK for years (presumably dating back to the Western acquisition), but I am not aware of a SLC-LGA nonstop. That is not to say definitively that it never happened--but I'm fairly sure it didn't.

Perhaps you are thinking of DCA? DL was granted an exemption for SLC-DCA and operates one daily flight on that route.
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
Guest

RE: Largest Plane Ever Flown Into LGA

Tue Jun 08, 2004 7:43 am

Hey folk whats the longest ranged destination served from LGA? LAX? ANC?

Also PA sent a few A300's there every now and again.

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RE: Largest Plane Ever Flown Into LGA

Tue Jun 08, 2004 8:23 am

EA CA OS, the weights/dimensions you are using for the DC-10 is for the series 30 and it never operated out of there neither did the heavier L15. The -10 did and its MGTW is about 430,000 also. Also none of these widebodies left/leave out of LGA anywhere near MGTW, the rtes flown require minimal fuel. As far as capacity the was/is the 302 Seat L1011-1's that DL operated outta there remains the leader.

[Edited 2004-06-08 01:28:03]
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FoxBravo
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RE: Largest Plane Ever Flown Into LGA

Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:39 am

Hey folk whats the longest ranged destination served from LGA? LAX? ANC?


None of the above. Currently the farthest destination is SFO (2579 mi), which ATA recently began serving from LGA on Saturdays only, when the perimeter rule does not apply. Other Saturday-only flights include US Airways' new service to AUA (1961 mi) and AA's ski season nonstops to EGE (1739 mi).

However, the farthest destination with daily flights from LGA is DEN (1620 mi), which as I mentioned above was "grandfathered in" under the perimeter rule. All other flights are less than 1500 mi.
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
ltbewr
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RE: Largest Plane Ever Flown Into LGA

Tue Jun 08, 2004 12:46 pm

If I am correct, and from personal experience several years ago, (May 1999)Frontier has daily non-stops between DEN and LGA. Yes, there is a 1500 mile rule, but if a a/c stops like in ORD or STL, they are still within that rule, and can offer same-plane flight continuing on to western US cities.
 
planemannyc
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RE: Largest Plane Ever Flown Into LGA

Tue Jun 08, 2004 8:36 pm

I myself have flown into LGA on a Delta L-1011 in 1988. The flight was from ATL.

Best regards,

Wasim / Planemannyc

 
FoxBravo
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RE: Largest Plane Ever Flown Into LGA

Tue Jun 08, 2004 9:24 pm

Ltbewr, you are correct. Both UA and F9 have daily nonstops from LGA to DEN, which--as I mentioned above--is a unique exception to the general 1500-mile rule.

You are also correct about same-plane service. Many flights from LGA to destinations within 1500 miles continue on to cities beyond the perimeter. For example, AUS falls just outside the perimeter, making nonstop flights impossible, but AA operates two daily flights that stop in HOU, just inside the perimeter, in order to circumvent the rule.

If memory serves, HP applied to the DOT not too long ago for an exemption allowing it to serve PHX nonstop from LGA. Its argument seemed fairly reasonable: almost every other hub & spoke airline in the U.S.--even F9, thanks to the DEN exemption--is able to serve LGA from its primary hub, so why shouldn't HP be allowed to do the same from PHX. However, as far as I know nothing ever came of that.

Perhaps if NY, like DC, had powerful politicians wanting convenient flights from a close-in airport to their home cities (McCain, I'm looking at YOU!), LGA would have perimeter rule exemptions like DCA does. But alas, we don't, and so we don't.  Big grin
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
7e72004
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RE: Largest Plane Ever Flown Into LGA

Tue Jun 08, 2004 10:35 pm

Could the A380 fit at LGA??
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
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N62NA
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RE: Largest Plane Ever Flown Into LGA

Wed Jun 09, 2004 12:12 am


Could the A380 fit at LGA??

No!

Nor could any of the 747 models, the A330, A340 and 777.

Will be interesting to see if the 7E7 will be a visitor (will need to have one of the US airlines buy it first, though, and that doesn't seem like it will happen anytime soon!).
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Largest Plane Ever Flown Into LGA

Wed Jun 09, 2004 12:45 am

7E72004.

As N62NA says, the answer is no. But in an emergency you could conceivably land the real big boys there.

Still, with JFK and EWR so close it seems unlikely to ever happen.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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RE: Largest Plane Ever Flown Into LGA

Wed Jun 09, 2004 12:49 am

ATA L-1011-

While I used the DC-10-30 operating weights (I couldn't find the DC-10-10 specs - just the -30 and -40), the L-1011-385-1 specs were what I'd used for that airframe, not the L15.

"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
VEEREF
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RE: Largest Plane Ever Flown Into LGA

Wed Jun 09, 2004 1:17 am

JFK won't have to worry about losing international gateway status to LGA, If for no other reason than there is simply not enough room for that many widebodies. I have watched the DL 764 push from it's gate many times and it is quite a project due to the limited space in the alleyway.

As far as the runway pier weight limits, it's not so much a function of total weight as it is a function of distribution. If you recall in the early 80's when the MD-80 first entered service it was initially barred from LGA due to to much weight per tire. While it's total weight was obviously much less than that of the DC-10 and L-1011's, it's weight per tire was greater, necessitating a different tire with a larger footprint for better weight distribution.

On a side note, I did get to witness the UA DC-10 emergency landing at DCA in 1997 due to severe weather in the IAD/BWI area. Now that was something to see!
Airplanes are cool. Aviation sucks.
 
broke
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RE: Largest Plane Ever Flown Into LGA

Wed Jun 09, 2004 1:24 am

While there are heavier airplanes that fly into LGA, the A-300 has a more compact footprint, resulting in a higher loading per square foot on the runways and taxiways. When Eastern began A-300 flights in and out of LGA, there were more stringent weight restrictions place on it than on the L-1011's.
The critical areas at LGA are the portions of the runways that are on the piers.
 
polnebmit
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RE: Largest Plane Ever Flown Into LGA

Wed Jun 09, 2004 1:50 am

You could land a 747 in LGA if there were no other airports to land in if you are refering only to runway length. LGA's runway lengths are similar to GUA, and KLM will fly their 747-400 into GUA every so often from MEX. So as far as runway lenth, LGA could accomote a big one, however weightwise, as mentioned, it would not be possible.
 
Rampero
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RE: Largest Plane Ever Flown Into LGA

Wed Jun 09, 2004 2:18 am

Yeah
LGA have overseas flights, US Airways LGA-SJU and LGA-NAS on saturdays.

Rampero
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CcrlR
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RE: Largest Plane Ever Flown Into LGA

Wed Jun 09, 2004 2:30 am

Can the A380 land at LGA? Why don't we ask John Travolta that? He's going to be on TLC tonight!

To answer your question nycfuturepilot about aircraft flying from LHR-LGA, it's about weight. Someone from The Gary Airport told me about this once(and from a Yahoo MDW group with ATA and why they dont' fly 757's to Europe). Sometimes When a aircraft is going a long distance like a DC-10 or BBJ, and even a A320, it has to be able to take off if it's at it's max weight and when you're with max fuel and weight, you can't take off from a 7,000 foot runway and go that far with it. Sometimes they need longer runways to take off like expecially like the 767-400. It can't go that far overseas from LGA's runways. This was also talked about JetBlue's fuel stop while going cross-country. You may need to take less fuel or pax to get to where you're going.
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FoxBravo
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RE: Largest Plane Ever Flown Into LGA

Wed Jun 09, 2004 2:32 am

Rampero, LGA has international flights to/from Canada, Bermuda and the Bahamas daily, and Aruba on Saturdays only (because it falls outside the 1500-mile perimeter). Although LGA does not have customs/immigration facilities, these flights are possible because all of those countries offer pre-clearance for passengers traveling to the U.S.
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
bigphilnyc
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RE: Largest Plane Ever Flown Into LGA

Wed Jun 09, 2004 2:36 am

Also, keep in mind that the beginnings of Rwys 22 and 13 are on piers and can only handle so much weight.

The A300 became banned at LGA due to its small wheel base putting a high concentration of weight into a small area, adding extreme stress to these piers and the runways.

the piers are always under constant maintenence. One runwya is often closed on Saturdays to this, and work is also done at night.

To say "largest" plane refers to size. Size does not pertain to weight. I dont know what any of you put weight into the equation. the 767-400 is the biggest that LGA has seen of all time, bigger in length and wingspan than the A300 Beluga which came in a few years back.

Potential arguments for the Beluga could be for the width of its body and the actual space in the air that it takes up.

Phil Derner Jr.
 
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RE: Largest Plane Ever Flown Into LGA

Wed Jun 09, 2004 2:40 am

EA CO AS,

Right and I was implying that the heavier L15 didnot operate their as well as the D13.

MK
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gigneil
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RE: Largest Plane Ever Flown Into LGA

Wed Jun 09, 2004 2:45 am

Although LGA does not have customs/immigration facilities, these flights are possible because all of those countries offer pre-clearance for passengers traveling to the U.S.

LGA does feature full customs/immigration facilities.

N
 
FoxBravo
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RE: Largest Plane Ever Flown Into LGA

Wed Jun 09, 2004 2:57 am

LGA does feature full customs/immigration facilities.

No, it does not. It may be possible for private aircraft, charters, etc. to arrange for customs/immigration clearance at LGA on demand, but there are definitely not "full" facilities sufficient to process a planeload of arriving passengers. That is why all of LGA's international flights arrive from airports with pre-clearance facilities.
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
JonnyJon11
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RE: Largest Plane Ever Flown Into LGA

Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:52 am

This took a bit since key word searches are down now but thought I would put a pic of the wide bodies in lga for you

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Photo © Joe Pries - A.T. TEAM



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Photo © Bill Hough



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now i know there are a few missing here but i will keep looking for you when search is back up
 
FoxBravo
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RE: Largest Plane Ever Flown Into LGA

Wed Jun 09, 2004 4:27 am

Nicely done! I assume you posted the last one for what's in the background, rather than the little guy in front...?  Smile
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
JonnyJon11
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RE: Largest Plane Ever Flown Into LGA

Wed Jun 09, 2004 4:30 am

Yeah but those Dash-7s were a blast to fly on. but here are some more big boys.

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[Edited 2004-06-08 21:39:02]
 
american762
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RE: Largest Plane Ever Flown Into LGA

Wed Jun 09, 2004 4:51 am

I was watching the aircraft buyer videos from the Boeing website and on one of the videos, they interview the CEO or some head guy of Delta about his position on the 767. He talks of how it is the largest aircraft that can be flown out of LGA which is pretty interesting hearing it from Delta. Personally, I think there is nothing more gorgeous in NYC than sitting in the AA terminal and watching 4/11 approaches come in over the water. Fun when you can make the NWA DC-9's out before anything else with all that smoke  Big grin
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bigphilnyc
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RE: Largest Plane Ever Flown Into LGA

Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:19 pm

I think you meant 4/22 aproaches, but I think the more beautiful approach is the Expressway Visual 31 approach, where you get ot see these heavies making crazy banks over Flushing on short finals.
Phil Derner Jr.
 
XFSUgimpLB41X
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RE: Largest Plane Ever Flown Into LGA

Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:21 pm

Flyf15's mom has got to be the biggest thing ever in LGA..airplane or not.
Chicks dig winglets.
 
dalfannyc
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RE: Largest Plane Ever Flown Into LGA

Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:34 pm

If a 747 were ever to have to land at LGA for some bizarre reason, it would have to be on 31 since it's not on the pier.

As for other wide bodies, I got to see the DL 764 last week, it definitely is the sight to see at LGA

JOSH
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Largest Plane Ever Flown Into LGA

Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:37 pm

An interesting tidbit about large planes at LGA: did you know that the original AA proposal for a widebody airliner dating from circa 1964 called for a twin-engined plane that could operate from LGA? However, due to the state of jet engines at the time it was amended to a three-engined plane, hence the reason why we got the DC-10 and L1011.

What's even more interesting was that the Boeing 767-200 almost fulfilled the original AA 1964 request almost perfectly--namely a widebody airliner powered by two engines that could safely operate in and out of LGA.
 
dalfannyc
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RE: Largest Plane Ever Flown Into LGA

Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:45 pm

How come more airlines fly 767's from LGA?
AA to Florida...there isn't a big enough market for at least 1 767?
 
Rampero
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RE: Largest Plane Ever Flown Into LGA

Thu Jun 10, 2004 12:02 am


FoxBravo

For your information San Juan(sju) and Aguadilla(bqn) Puerto Rico is not an international destination because Puerto Rico is a USA territory and the puertorricans not need to clear customs to enter to the united states. If you see the US airways timetable,us airways has a 2 saturdays flight to LGA-SJU-LGA on A319.

Rampero
"Ponce es Ponce" y lo demas es parking...
 
FoxBravo
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RE: Largest Plane Ever Flown Into LGA

Thu Jun 10, 2004 3:51 am

Rampero--I know that...you're the one who mentioned SJU as being "overseas," not me!  Smile
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
IslipWN
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RE: Largest Plane Ever Flown Into LGA

Thu Jun 10, 2004 6:57 am

I dont get it. How come an airline cant do a LGA-DUB/SHN route? Continental does them from EWR. Why is there a limit restriction on the distance that the planes can travel?
 
FoxBravo
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RE: Largest Plane Ever Flown Into LGA

Thu Jun 10, 2004 7:37 am

The 1500-mile limit is an arbitrary one, just like the limitations imposed on Love Field in Dallas and Reagan-National in D.C. The intent is to protect the business of the "international" airport(s) in each city. If you read the rest of the thread, I think everything is explained pretty thoroughly.

As for LGA-DUB/SNN, it would have to be on Saturdays, when the perimeter rule is not in effect, but Ireland does have U.S. immigration/customs pre-clearance, so that wouldn't be a problem. The major issue would be weight restrictions due to the length of LGA's runways, which may very well render such a flight unprofitable.
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
ACAfan
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RE: Largest Plane Ever Flown Into LGA

Thu Jun 10, 2004 7:43 am

If only YUL had a perimeter...
Freddie Laker ... May be at peace with his maker ... But he is a persona non grata ... with IATA
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: Largest Plane Ever Flown Into LGA

Thu Jun 10, 2004 9:56 am

IslipWN-US Airways could very easily operate a Saturday-only LGA-SNN-DUB-LGA flight with the A-319's, although it might have to be routed fairly interestingly, due to the fact that if it was an eastbound red-eye, it would have to leave from another city on Friday, go to SNN/DUB, fly back to LGA, then go out to SNN/DUB leaving Saturday (arriving Sunday) and back into that other airport...I could see two ways to do this:

1) Friday night: BOS-(Saturday arrival) SNN-DUB-LGA-(Sunday arrival) SNN-DUB-BOS (I routed the outbound flight through Shannon to lessen the chance at a weight restriction, although it shouldn't be a problem with the 319, as Shannon is closer than Dublin)

2) Leave LGA Saturday Morning-SNN-DUB-LGA, returning to LGA Saturday night, and thus getting around an interesting routing, but passengers would lose the whole day travelling, which isn't desireable going to Europe...
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