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flyingchoirboy
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Bad News...airtran Keeps Ugly New Look

Fri Jun 11, 2004 3:29 pm

according to airtran, they are keeping the new look and not only applying them to only the 737s, they will also apply it to the 717s.....bad news, another boring white airplane....all this on airtran.com

-flyingchoirboy----"i'm singing in the.....plane!"
 
aviaction
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RE: Bad News...airtran Keeps Ugly New Look

Fri Jun 11, 2004 4:03 pm

It really makes me wonder...
Judging by the negative reaction here on the net (I reckon about 90 per cent of the replies were NOT enthousiastic about the revised livery), I assume that the overall reception cannot be much better. Even taking into consideration all those who simply don't care, I assume more than 50 per cent of all people just don't find it attractive.

Some member on the AirTran Board (who in my opinion must be colour-blind) obviously made a very poor decision. No harm done as this only reflects to taste. No harm done, as every decision can be changed. However, this does not seem to apply at AirTran. Either they don't care, they don't listen ... or staff members who do care are not strong enough to enforce a change.

And this is exactly the point that makes me wonder, or rather which frightens me a lot. If the decison taken had been a different one, one concerning safety for example, would the Board listen? Or would they be all cowards, not wanting to admit they have made a questionable (or even dangerous) decision? Would other staff members be strong enough? Do they have a voice?

It is very often little (and pretty unimportant) issues like this which throw intriguing light onto a company and the way it is run. Sorry folks, but AirTran has lost all my respect.

Respectful flying to all of us.
Aviaction

German by nationality, European by heart!
 
greasespot
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RE: Bad News...airtran Keeps Ugly New Look

Fri Jun 11, 2004 8:21 pm

Ummm This is a Aviation enthusiasts website. Most people who fly do not care or even know what the airplane they are going to fly on looks like. We on the other hand notice when American uses a different shade of red.

 Smile/happy/getting dizzy

A corporate brand is that. It does not have to be the prettiest or best looking but it does have to stick out.

GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
LY4XELD
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RE: Bad News...airtran Keeps Ugly New Look

Fri Jun 11, 2004 9:21 pm

I agree with Greasespot.

Unfortunately, the flying public couldn't care less about what the airplane looks like, as long as it takes them from point A to point B for cheap (especially in this situation since we are talking AitTran). Yeah, the new livery isn't too pretty to look at, but lots of people hated WN's livery for a long time, but it only made them stand out more. I'm sure the costs involved in changing the livery again would be something that AirTran is not interested in.

I think its a bit of an overreaction to lose all respect for an airline because of a decision on the livery. Yes, it is brand recognition, and I agree that it is important to an extent, but it is certainly not a driving force in the management of an airline. WE notice it because WE care about it more than your average joe.
 
aviaction
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RE: Bad News...airtran Keeps Ugly New Look

Fri Jun 11, 2004 9:59 pm

Sorry for not being able to get my point across properly. I tried to explain that I regard the change of livery as something of minor importance. It is a question of taste anyway. And I do agree entirely that the "average Joe" won't notice.

No, me stating that I have lost my respect for the Airtran management has to do with the fact, that quite obviously they do not listen to their people. This notion is based on a few other posts by Airtran staff members.

If Airtran doesn't listen to them in such a trivial matter, do they listen if much more serious issues are concerned??? Does company culture provide for feedback from staff members? This is something I do doubt now and which prompted me to post my opinion on it.

However, I hope that my use of "I reckon, I assume, I wonder" makes it perfectly clear that all I expressed was my very personal impression.

Respectful flying to all of us.
Aviaction




German by nationality, European by heart!
 
AIR757200
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RE: Bad News...airtran Keeps Ugly New Look

Fri Jun 11, 2004 10:06 pm


I think the livery looks just fine. Could of been worse... all white?
 
bobnwa
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RE: Bad News...airtran Keeps Ugly New Look

Fri Jun 11, 2004 10:25 pm

Aviaction,

Do we know for a fact that Airtran did not recieve favorable comments from its staff about the livery. This message board sometimes suffers from the belief that what this board thinks reflects the flying public.

I have yet to see a new livery come out on any airline that has not had negative comments from members of this board. Should everyone of those airlines change their livery?

Airtran management is doing a damn good job in running its airline!
 
goingboeing
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RE: Bad News...airtran Keeps Ugly New Look

Fri Jun 11, 2004 10:26 pm

And this is exactly the point that makes me wonder, or rather which frightens me a lot. If the decison taken had been a different one, one concerning safety for example, would the Board listen? Or would they be all cowards, not wanting to admit they have made a questionable (or even dangerous) decision? Would other staff members be strong enough? Do they have a voice?

If board decisions on ugly airplane colors have any bearing on safety, Southwest should have been crashing a plane a week for the past 30 years.

If Airtran doesn't listen to them in such a trivial matter, do they listen if much more serious issues are concerned??? Does company culture provide for feedback from staff members? This is something I do doubt now and which prompted me to post my opinion on it.

Key word...trivial. I have yet to meet ANYBODY who has said "Sure, airline XYZ has a lower fare, but their planes are butt-ugly and this makes me question how seriously they take their maintenance".
 
GSPSPOT
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RE: Bad News...airtran Keeps Ugly New Look

Fri Jun 11, 2004 10:32 pm

Simple.... New--UGLY. Old, much better looking.
Great Lakes, great life.
 
caetravlr
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RE: Bad News...airtran Keeps Ugly New Look

Fri Jun 11, 2004 10:42 pm

I agree with the poster who said that Southwest has a butt ugly livery, and yet somehow they have gotten away with it for many years.

AirTran on the other hand has a very distinctive, very modern livery on it's current fleet. They feel that the introduction of the new fleet type is a good opportunity to update their brand image. However, in doing so, they have taken something that works, and looks nice, and turned it into an atrocity (simply my opinion here). I think the employees of Airtran that post to this board have stated that they don't like the new livery, and that is where those comments came from. Anyway, they really have no need to update their corporate image at this point as, they are growing, they are popular, and they are profitable. UAL needed to do so to shed the vestiges of the Stephen Wolf era, AirTran has no such baggage to get rid of currently, they did that years ago when they shed the Valujet image.

All of this is my opinion, but I really do not look forward to seeing that livery when I pass through ATL.
A woman drove me to drink and I didn't have the decency to thank her. - W.C. Fields
 
aviaction
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RE: Bad News...airtran Keeps Ugly New Look

Fri Jun 11, 2004 10:42 pm

Goingboing
I couldn't agree more. There is no relation whatsoever between the livery and safety. However, I have NOT claimed there is. The question I asked myself was: "Do they (the management) listen to their staff?" And neither you nor Bobnwa answered my question in the affirmative.


German by nationality, European by heart!
 
bobnwa
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RE: Bad News...airtran Keeps Ugly New Look

Fri Jun 11, 2004 10:52 pm

I think I did answer. Most companies, Airtran included do listen to their staff. But as I asked before, are we sure that the majority of the staff was negative about the new livery?

I believe the staff opinion of the new livery was postive. Thus the board listened and kept the livery. Do you have info that disputes this?
 
aviaction
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RE: Bad News...airtran Keeps Ugly New Look

Fri Jun 11, 2004 11:06 pm

Bobnwa,
Sorry, I guess I was just too quick with my reply. You did answer. Thanks.

And no, I do not have info that disputes your view. And I have never claimed I did.

May I quote myself: "However, I hope that my use of "I reckon, I assume, I wonder" makes it perfectly clear that all I expressed was my very personal impression.?

Now the question is ... are there any AirTrans staff member on the net right now who could shed some light on the selection process relative to the livery?

I feel a bit sheepish now as the last question should have been asked first!!! Bear with me.

Peaceful communications for all of us.
Aviaction





[Edited 2004-06-11 16:24:51]
German by nationality, European by heart!
 
PHLBOS
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RE: Bad News...airtran Keeps Ugly New Look

Sat Jun 12, 2004 12:52 am

For those who aren't too thrilled with the new livery, one can only hope that when FL officials do a computer rendering of the new livery on the 717; they won't like what they see (since the engines are located further back on the 717, the blue on teal may prove to clash too much).

If that's the case, the new look could be modified somewhat to address some of miscues; mainly the engine cowl color (teal for blue) and where the striped cheatline meets the tailfin (it should be at the front of the teal tailfin).

Just a thought.

I wonder now if FL's remaining 717s on order (I believe there are at least 6) will receive the 'new' treatment?
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
JGPH1A
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RE: Bad News...airtran Keeps Ugly New Look

Sat Jun 12, 2004 12:54 am

We should find out who designed this abomination of a c/s and toilet paper his house.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
Northwest717
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RE: Bad News...airtran Keeps Ugly New Look

Sat Jun 12, 2004 12:59 am

JGPH1A, totally! This guy needs to be dealt with severely.  Pissed Not only has he destroyed a classic paint scheme, but he has shaken people's faith in livery designers! This person must be shot!  Pissed Just my $.02!

-Tim

P.S. Don't mean to offend any fans of the new c/s!

PHLBOS: Those are the exact modifications I would make! Too bad that ultra-stupid designer doesn't think the way we do!  Sad

[Edited 2004-06-11 18:01:55]
Dubai: Center of the 21st Century
 
VectorVictor
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RE: Bad News...airtran Keeps Ugly New Look

Sat Jun 12, 2004 1:41 am

As a graphic designer (15+ years), I can assure you that often what is perceived to be bad solution to a graphic design issue is often the result of the client meddling or second guessing the skills and talents of the designers they hired.

Based on my experience - the designer(s) probably made a compromise with AirTran "decision makers" that resulted in what was seen on the new Boeing. It happens all of the time in my business, and its very frustrating.

There are bad designers...but the likelyhood they will have enough cache to do a livery for a major U.S. airline is unlikely.
 
Bronko
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RE: Bad News...airtran Keeps Ugly New Look

Sat Jun 12, 2004 1:44 am

What is interesting to me is that almost everyone that has seen in person, is at least neutral to very positive on the new livery.
Jet City Aviation Photography
 
FL1TPA
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RE: Bad News...airtran Keeps Ugly New Look

Sat Jun 12, 2004 2:35 am

In my personal opinion, (I hate using IMO)

Trying to extrapolate management culture from a paint scheme is incredibly short-sighted and quite insane. I work for FL and I have seen nothing to indicate a management philosophy of decision "stonewalling" by upper management or the refusal of employee input. Every month we have a meeting in ATL of the Agent Council. It's composed of 1 elected representative from each of our cities and we speak DIRECTLY with upper management about employee concerns. The senior VPs from human resources, customer service, training, (even Joe Leonard, on occation) are in attendance. This is an "Open Door" company if I've ever seen one.

Paint is paint. If we had painted "AirTran: we care less about your opinion!" on the side of the plane, then I'd worry.

I'm sorry if the above sounds heated, but I despise ignorant statements from those that may or may not know about the business.

Tim.

<>
"Looks like I picked the wrong week to stop sniffin' glue."
 
aviaction
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RE: Bad News...airtran Keeps Ugly New Look

Sat Jun 12, 2004 2:59 am

Tim

yes, indeed, your post does sound heated. While quite rightfully defending your company (they should be really proud of you!), you actually didn't say a word about the "livery-finding process".

Were staff members asked for input? Or was everything decided behind closed doors? After the roll-out, was there any discussion when/where you could voice your opinion? Or was that not deemed essential as "paint is paint"?

As I see it, it would be same as for new uniforms. They should be worn with pride. And seeing a plane resplendant in the new company colours should fill everyone on the payroll with pride. How do you feel?

Aviaction




German by nationality, European by heart!
 
FL1TPA
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RE: Bad News...airtran Keeps Ugly New Look

Sat Jun 12, 2004 3:34 am

Aviaction,

I was a little upset about your post, but you are certainly entitled to your opinion - as is everyone. I repect your views and intelligent discourse is what makes this forum great!

I feel much better now. By the way, I didn't even know about the color change until I saw the first photos right here on A-net. Our company sent out a newsletter the next day announcing it. So in this instance, employee input was not taken into account. Maybe it was one of those "won't they be surprised" type of changes. I would have enjoyed a contest to design a new scheme for us. Oh, well. We will go on. Even with "questionable" style.

Tim.

<>
"Looks like I picked the wrong week to stop sniffin' glue."
 
goingboeing
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RE: Bad News...airtran Keeps Ugly New Look

Sat Jun 12, 2004 3:52 am

Logo redesign isn't usually subject to employee input. The "logo" on a plane is a highly visible place, but it's really no different than a logo on a corporate letterhead.

Several years ago when I worked for Sprint Corporation, the logo was a red diamond with 5 stripes through it. The powers that be announced a "new" logo, which was a red diamond with 3 stripes through it, to represent local, long distance, and wireless. Unless you really looked at it hard, it was very difficult to tell the difference, but it resulted in thousands of dollars being spent to put the new logo on buildings, new stationery, new business cards, new pins, and several other things that carried the logo. No input was sought from any employee group. Had there been, they would have most likely said that it was a waste of money. But...the folks in the carpeted offices knew best. That was back when Sprint had about 25,000 more employees than they do today, but hey...they were flush with cash back then.

[Edited 2004-06-11 20:52:41]
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Bad News...airtran Keeps Ugly New Look

Sat Jun 12, 2004 4:01 am

how many of you spewing oral diahrea have actually seen the new colors, in person?
 
aviaction
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RE: Bad News...airtran Keeps Ugly New Look

Sat Jun 12, 2004 4:10 am

Tim
I really appreciate your last post - with your very frank statement. I couldn't agree more, civilised controversy is what makes this forum a great place. I do look forward to many more open-minded discussions. And I, too, would have liked to see the fruits of an employee livery-creating contest ... I reckon you won't be surprised if I tell you that I assume the result would have surely been a more eye-pleasing one.

Civilised flying to all of us.
Aviaction





German by nationality, European by heart!
 
Greg
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RE: Bad News...airtran Keeps Ugly New Look

Sat Jun 12, 2004 4:22 am

It's part of the new advertising slogan: "Just Plane Ugly"

Airlines don't care about paint schemes? I bet to differ..and so would Landor and Associates, et al. whom have been paid millions to design and rebrand some very influential customers. AirTran just missed the mark here, that's all.

Do passengers care? Hell, anymore it unlikely you can even see the aircraft from the gate anymore....so likely, it's not very important.

Does the image on the aircraft actual convey into revenue?
Does anyone have even an inkling of how you could even substantiate that?

Interesting topic.

 
goingboeing
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RE: Bad News...airtran Keeps Ugly New Look

Sat Jun 12, 2004 4:52 am

Airlines don't care about paint schemes? I bet to differ..and so would Landor and Associates, et al. whom have been paid millions to design and rebrand some very influential customers. AirTran just missed the mark here, that's all.

What's your opinion of Southwest's old colors that they had for over 30 years?

Do passengers care? Hell, anymore it unlikely you can even see the aircraft from the gate anymore....so likely, it's not very important.

Even when they do seem to be able to see the plane, it doesn't seem to matter. Again, I point to Southwest.

Does the image on the aircraft actual convey into revenue?
Does anyone have even an inkling of how you could even substantiate that?


It might to an aviation geek on this board...they are the only ones I know who HAVE written that they avoid Southwest because they had an ugly livery. 72 million other folks this past year didn't seem to have a problem with it. In fact, with the current state of the industry, it could be argued that airlines with ugly liveries are more profitable than those with "pretty" planes.
 
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Jamake1
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RE: Bad News...airtran Keeps Ugly New Look

Sat Jun 12, 2004 5:31 am

I think Joseph Leonard should call Spirit Airlines' branding firm and get some much needed help...
Come fly the sun.
 
LY4XELD
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RE: Bad News...airtran Keeps Ugly New Look

Sat Jun 12, 2004 5:45 am

how many of you spewing oral diahrea have actually seen the new colors, in person?

and your point is...
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Bad News...airtran Keeps Ugly New Look

Sat Jun 12, 2004 5:46 am

my point is how can you have such a strong opinion about something you've never seen in real life?
 
Greg
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RE: Bad News...airtran Keeps Ugly New Look

Sat Jun 12, 2004 5:54 am

How can you hate WN! I LUV 'em. They are gonna make me a millionaire when I cash that stock in one of these days!  Smile

They are a low cost airline with a low cost image. Totally consistent. And I actually like the new one. So, what's the beef?

You actually know someone who chose not to fly an airline because of their colour scheme??? Amazing. And you'll have to agree, about as shallow and idiotic as you can get--unless the airline had some strange slogan or satanic symbol on them!
 
alphascan
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RE: Bad News...airtran Keeps Ugly New Look

Sat Jun 12, 2004 6:24 am

I have great respect for the transformation Joe Leonard, his management team and all the employees of FL have been able to accomplish since the dark days of the Air Florida grounding.

I have to disagree with most posters who say that the aircraft livery or branding has little to do with the image of an airline. How did WN get their WAL-MART image to begin with? Their branding has always screamed, "We don't care about taste, just getting you there cheaply."

When a Landor comes into a company they spend months and months doing research to try to get the image to be "consistent" with the messages the carrier is trying to portray to the traveling public.

With Airtran's introduction of a first class service and their stated goal of becoming "the premier low cost carrier among smart travelers nationwide", their new livery, to me, sends an opposite message. Its so trendy that it went out of style last year.

"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
 
7e72004
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RE: Bad News...airtran Keeps Ugly New Look

Sat Jun 12, 2004 6:25 am

While i think an airline's livery plays some part in the image i think most are more concerned with how much the ticket is...although AA could use a new livery...i saw some pretty neat renditions in other posts  Big thumbs up
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
Flyer732
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RE: Bad News...airtran Keeps Ugly New Look

Sat Jun 12, 2004 6:38 am

Guys, when I saw the new colors, I couldn't stand them. When I saw the plane in person on delivery yesterday, my mind changed. While not one of my favorite schemes, I have to say it doesn't look half bad. The blue on the engines is much darker than I originaly thought, which makes it look a little better.

You might not change your mind when you see it for the first time, but word around the water cooler was that people thought it looked better in person.

Plus the interior (I think) is very very nice. Nothing like the 717's and will provide a very nice ride.
 
wjcandee
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RE: Bad News...airtran Keeps Ugly New Look

Sat Jun 12, 2004 6:45 am

Actually, the "new" livery is pretty much the OLD 737 livery, with a couple of changes (stripe going up instead of down at nose, black treatment under the cockpit windows, and the "A" instead of the old tail logo). Just pull up the old Airtran 737 photos here on airliners.net to see. Obviously, someone from the old guard felt that the planes looked better back when they had green on the bottom instead of cream.

Personally, I think that they're dumping a unique, stylish, and still-current livery for a crappy new/old one, but it ain't my airline to run, just to fly, which I do every couple of weeks. Frankly, I care less about the new livery than I do about the fact that they're getting 737NGs and might want me to fly on one. I hate them. I'd rather fly with one of Ron Ryan's guys on one of their A320s than with the Airtran pilots that I like on one of their new 737s. (As one TZ pilot posted on TZ's board: "WTFO -- How stable is this thing?!"). Now I once again will have to check every itinerary to make sure that I'm getting on a 717, which I love, instead of a 737.

Best,

Bill
 
Blackbird1331
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RE: Bad News...airtran Keeps Ugly New Look

Sat Jun 12, 2004 6:57 am

I love it. Maybe that explains why I don't have any friends.
Cameras shoot pictures. Guns shoot people. They have the guns.
 
BMIFlyer
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RE: Bad News...airtran Keeps Ugly New Look

Sat Jun 12, 2004 7:27 am

Pardon my Ignorance - but where is the picture of this new look aircraft??

Thanks

Lee
Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
 
 
DAYGS
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RE: Bad News...airtran Keeps Ugly New Look

Sat Jun 12, 2004 8:03 am

I really like the "a" logo tail, but the existing color scheme (on the 717) is much classier and dignified. At any rate, it's a great airline. I fly them often
and thank them for the low fares -which enables me to fly!- LOL
 
Propulsion
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RE: Bad News...airtran Keeps Ugly New Look

Sat Jun 12, 2004 8:37 am

It is a shame they are keeping that revolting new colour scheme. I presume the application on the 717 will be slightly different, but those engines will still be coloured in that contrasting BUT NOT COMPLIMENTARY blue.

With regard to all white colour schemes...Yes some may look boring, but if a little amount of thought is put into them with features such as simple splashes of colour or graphics, then they can turn out to be quite pleasing. I for one find several such liveries to be very nice and far better than the distaste exhibited by AirTran's latest attempt at painting an aircraft.
A bus is a vehicle that runs twice as fast when you are after it as when you are in it.
 
whitehatter
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RE: Bad News...airtran Keeps Ugly New Look

Sat Jun 12, 2004 9:06 am

I think it looks both clean and smart!

The nasty cream/smog colour on the 717 looks like an AF fokker that hasn't been washed in months. The new livery is classy!  Wink/being sarcastic
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
md80fanatic
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RE: Bad News...airtran Keeps Ugly New Look

Sat Jun 12, 2004 11:08 am

I'm not sure if any livery can make a 737 look good, but that neon blue engine will surely make the 717 almost unbearable to look upon.....bad move AirTran.
Have you checked your glasses lately?
 
Mike77
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RE: Bad News...airtran Keeps Ugly New Look

Sat Jun 12, 2004 11:18 am

Maybe I'm a colorblind loser, but I think the updated paint job looks awesome. I saw the photo of it before I read any comments, and I was really surprised to see so much negativity about it. I think the look really stands out and sets the airline apart from the some of the more bland looks out there. The color on the engines is amazing! This ranks up there with British Midland as one of my favorites(maybe I am just a sucker for shocking shades of blue)...anyway, I will bet that the AirTran livery will look much better in person.


Michael
 
srbmod
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RE: Bad News...airtran Keeps Ugly New Look

Sat Jun 12, 2004 11:22 am

I have great respect for the transformation Joe Leonard, his management team and all the employees of FL have been able to accomplish since the dark days of the Air Florida grounding.

Air Florida? Uh, they went out in 1984, long before Conquest Sun (one of the airlines in the AirTran family tree) started up, long before Mesaba took it over and renamed it AirTran, long before a few guys in Atlanta started Valujet, long before Mesaba spun AirTran off into its' own separate company, long before one fateful May day in 1996 that led to the merger that established the airline they are today.
 
Flyer732
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RE: Bad News...airtran Keeps Ugly New Look

Sat Jun 12, 2004 11:35 am

Last I checked, the engines aren't "neon blue" they're a dark blue.

And I was leaning on one of them yesterday, so I'm pretty sure of it too.
 
wjcandee
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RE: Bad News...airtran Keeps Ugly New Look

Sat Jun 12, 2004 1:22 pm

By the way, I think that it's somewhat ironic that UPS's brand-spankin'-new, "modern" revision to its livery is in some sense a variation of the now-being-replaced Airtran livery: creamy front, colors and stripes to the rear. The angle of the rear-fuselage paint is just in the other direction on the UPS livery. Funny that one of the world's most successful companies in promoting brand image finds that look worthy of repainting onto its entire fleet, just as Airtran is dumping it.

Best,

Bill
 
md80fanatic
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RE: Bad News...airtran Keeps Ugly New Look

Sat Jun 12, 2004 9:36 pm

I'd rather not get into a color wheel argument here, LOL. To me they stand out as if they were "neon". Now that we have clarified that....
 
alphascan
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RE: Bad News...airtran Keeps Ugly New Look

Sun Jun 13, 2004 5:22 am

Srbmod:

My bad. Typed too fast. Meant to say ValuJet as you so correctly pointed out. Thank you.
"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
 
Propulsion
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RE: Bad News...airtran Keeps Ugly New Look

Sun Jun 13, 2004 11:48 am

Md80fanatic: 'I'm not sure if any livery can make a 737 look good'

Well I think the new Air Berlin aircraft in Boeing's new house colours looks very, very nice. Southwest's livery has always been quite attractive and complementary on the 737 design.

I understand what you mean though. The 737 isn't the prettiest looking bird and I think it is beaten without question by the A320 family in terms of aesthetics.
A bus is a vehicle that runs twice as fast when you are after it as when you are in it.
 
aerokiwi
Posts: 2788
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2000 1:17 pm

RE: Bad News...airtran Keeps Ugly New Look

Sun Jun 13, 2004 1:33 pm

Either way, both liveries are positively revolting. Teal and dirty cream/beige? With a bright blue and red cheatline to boot? You've got to be kidding right? Or perhaps this is some kind of American-taste thing the rest of the world doesn't quite get.

It was ugly, still is ugly and, I suspect, will forever remain ugly. Actually, it reminds me of an auntie whose house is stuck in the early seventies - all beiges browns teals and blues, with splashes of heinously bright colours here and there to add a "just-vomitted-on" look.

But what the hey? If they're cheap, doesn't really matter I spose.
 
jmhLUV2fly
Posts: 539
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 1999 4:15 pm

FL1TPA

Sun Jun 13, 2004 2:33 pm

Tim,
Drop me a line sometime.
Would be good to hear from you.
Michael-PNS

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