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Tango-Bravo
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Why Did United Choose A320?

Sat Jun 12, 2004 1:18 pm

What were United's reasons for walking away from what seemed to be a done deal to acquire a large number of Boeing 737-X aircraft (unspecified variant) in the mid-1990s and choosing instead to go with A320s and A319s from Airbus?
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gigneil
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RE: Why Did United Choose A320?

Sat Jun 12, 2004 1:20 pm

They needed more capability than was available in a 150 seat plane from Boeing or McD at the time. They wanted to fly them cross country, and they wanted to replace 727s and not use 757s for it.

Then when the 320 worked out so well, the 319 was a natural addition (5 years later or so).

N
 
Tasha
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RE: Why Did United Choose A320?

Sat Jun 12, 2004 1:40 pm

Doesn't the 737-800 (900) have more capacity than 150 seats?

Tasha
 
gigneil
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RE: Why Did United Choose A320?

Sat Jun 12, 2004 1:46 pm

The 738 is an about 150 seat plane, and that's what most people fly them as.

Those planes were still many, many years away when United ordered the 320.

United's first 320 arrived in early 1992. The first WN 73G didn't fly until the last month of 1997, and the 738 for Hapag-Lloyd not until April 1998.

N
 
Udo
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RE: Why Did United Choose A320?

Sat Jun 12, 2004 1:47 pm

At the time United decided on new planes, the B737-800 and -900 were still nothing more than a bubble...after losing a large and loyal customer like United Boeing finally woke up and pushed forward the B737NG. Boeing was just too slow and had to react that's it.


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
Udo
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RE: Why Did United Choose A320?

Sat Jun 12, 2004 1:51 pm

Neil,

Though I always agree with your posts I'm sorry to correct you in a detail today: United's first A320 arrived in November 1993. However, you are absolutely right on the early point of time of the order.


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
dbo861
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RE: Why Did United Choose A320?

Sat Jun 12, 2004 1:53 pm

So why don't they just ditch the A320s for the new 737s? United and Boeing have had a huge love relationship ever since they were the same company back in the 1920s or 30s.
 
gigneil
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RE: Why Did United Choose A320?

Sat Jun 12, 2004 1:55 pm

My mistake.

Sorry about that.

N
 
gigneil
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RE: Why Did United Choose A320?

Sat Jun 12, 2004 1:58 pm

So why don't they just ditch the A320s for the new 737s?

Why would they? They're an outstanding performer for United, and they had been building the fleet for years when the first 737NGs came out.

They would have had to replace all their 320s, all their 319s, and then grow the fleet from there. That would have been an awful business decision.

Unlike SQ, most carriers don't randomly ditch fleet types, especially not a very large fleet at the largest carrier in the world (at the time).

N
 
Udo
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RE: Why Did United Choose A320?

Sat Jun 12, 2004 4:19 pm

Ditch the A320??? What a good laugh this morning...

1. check jp airline fleets for their fleet size (97 A320, 55 A319)
2. aircraft age A320: 6 years, A319: 4,5 years - pretty old, ha?
3. A32X are well performing - never change a winning team
4. costs...how would UA be able to finance a new 150 strong B737NG fleet?


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
Tango-Bravo
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RE: Why Did United Choose A320?

Sat Jun 12, 2004 11:44 pm

Udo writes: At the time United decided on new planes, the B737-800 and -900 were still nothing more than a bubble...

Does anyone recall which 737 variant(s) UA had in mind with their stated intent to acquire a large number of 737X aircraft before making their decision to go with the A320 instead?
 
Bofredrik
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RE: Why Did United Choose A320?

Sat Jun 12, 2004 11:53 pm

UA bought Airbus because they found them to be better than what Boeing could offer at that time. Pure realistic business decision. Smokin cool
 
UAMAYBACH1239
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RE: Why Did United Choose A320?

Sun Jun 13, 2004 12:30 am

Tango-Bravo

By the time UA finished working with airbus at the end of 1993, the planes were practically free. I cant remember the exect terms but a division of Airbus Industrie sold planes to United Airlines, in return UA sold them back to another division of airbus and UAL corp. ended up picking up the planes almost 2 airbuses for the cost 1 737.
a/c flown 737-222/322/522 757/747-1-2-4, 767-2-3, 777-2-3, A319-20, DC10-10-30, L1011-3-5, 727-222adv, MD85-90 flyourfri
 
Udo
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RE: Why Did United Choose A320?

Sun Jun 13, 2004 1:25 am

Of course, Airbus has so far only given planes away for free...the fact that the A320 offered MUCH better range, payload and capacity options than ANY available Boeing B737 model at the time of the UA order was not enough...they also had to be free in order, right? Never heard such a piece of BS...sorry, but when I hear people talking so much crap I can only laugh.

Probably it was exactly that attitude which several Boeing executives have had over the past decades..."Airbus are only ordered because they are free"...well, we have seen how fatal that way of thinking was...

Btw, I'd love to hear the EXACT terms which some people obviously cannot remember...now I want to know it!
Hey, I also try to buy a car tomorrow, sell it back and get it for free afterwards...it's a fair deal and I have always wanted the new Audi A3!  Laugh out loud


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
worldoftui
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RE: Why Did United Choose A320?

Sun Jun 13, 2004 1:54 am

So why don't they just ditch the A320s for the new 737s? United and Boeing have had a huge love relationship ever since they were the same company back in the 1920s or 30s.

Gave me a laugh that did. What a ridiculous thing to say. Ditch a fleet of aircraft just because of a historical relationship to a supplier. Financial suicide.

The A320 was clearly the ideal aircraft for them at the time. Superior range and efficiency to the 737s and superior payload capacities too. Ideal to fill the gap between the 757 and 737. And the A319 could offer the similar range for smaller markets. No need to dump such a capable aircraft for another probably equally capable one. But as someone said, the A320 was in the right place at the right time. I am sure that the deal was good. If you went down to your car dealer and asked to buy over 100 cars, I think they would do you a good deal too. Give them for free? I doubt it.

However, 2 A320's for 1 737? Admittedly the UA A320 order would have been a PR coup for Airbus. Plus the possibility of further orders of the A330/340 family would have been on their mind I am sure. But what they were no doubt thinking was that any order from an airline the size of United was going to turn into a very large order. No business can afford to give away its products for long, regardless of the PR value and the potential future business.

I think that the A319/320 is a superb aircraft that has been operating extremely well for United. I hear that they are very happy with the aircraft and have no plans to withdraw the type from their fleet.


Mark

PS. I have a vision. I can see this turning A vs B within a few more replies.  Big grin
 
Tango-Bravo
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RE: Why Did United Choose A320?

Sun Jun 13, 2004 2:00 am

Setting aside speculation concerning the financial side of United's purchase price and terms with Airbus, the fact remains that Airbus beat Boeing by 10 years in offering airlines a state-of-the-art 150-pax aircraft with true non-stop U.S. transcontinental range at full payload. And the 'bus was, and remains, a top performer on short-medium length routes calling for 150-pax capacity. There couldn't have been a better match for UA's needs, both then and now, IMO.

If financing was on terms favorable to UA, so much the better! Regardless of any money issues, UA's choice was the right airplane at the right time. One can only wish that business decisions made by UA subsequent to their A320/319 purchase had been as sound as their choice of aircraft.
 
Bsmalls35
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RE: Why Did United Choose A320?

Sun Jun 13, 2004 2:34 am

I remember reading somewhere that United wanted a plane with a capacity of 150 pax capable of flying fully loaded from Denver to the east coast without any weight restrictions year round. Boeing and Airbus submitted the 737-400 and A320 and Boeing would not guarantee that its aircraft would do this during the hot summer months. At the time I don't think United was thinking about operating the A320 on transcontinental routes as they had 757, 767 and DC-10 aircraft. I'll see if I can track down a source.
 
PHLapproach
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RE: Why Did United Choose A320?

Sun Jun 13, 2004 2:40 am

I was reading my book titled "Airbus" and in the chapter on A319/320/321 it says DL was going to aquire a large quantity of A320's and their order was what pushed Airbus to develop the A320-200. What ever happened to that order? This book was published in 98' - 99', I believe. I can't imagine having a huge order come through, you make/ alter a aircraft specifically for an order, then they back out!
 
gigneil
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RE: Why Did United Choose A320?

Sun Jun 13, 2004 2:49 am

I dunno... there really weren't that many A320-100s built.

N
 
ual777
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RE: Why Did United Choose A320?

Sun Jun 13, 2004 3:44 am

I hope UA doesn't ditch the A320. I am a boeing person myself, but I will hand it to airbus, the A320 is an outstanding aircraft.

UA would NEVER EVER drop the A320 for the 737NG because not only do you have to buy new planes, you also have to retrain the crews, buy all new spare parts, and change your cartes in-flight entertainment systems as well. This move would snatch the life out of UA so fast, it would boggle your mind.(and my UA loving mind too for that matter.)

However, I have been hearing from some mechanics at UA that the older A320s have aged rapidly and they are having some considerable mantainance issues with them. I was told they are not as rugged at the 737-300/500s that UA has.

That aside, the A320 is an excellent aircraft and a pleasure to fly on. There I said it. Dont rub it in.  Big grin
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
CalPilot17
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RE: Why Did United Choose A320?

Sun Jun 13, 2004 4:08 am

Wow some people get touchy with the idea that airlines were not buying the A320 for it's specs and performance but more for the financial reasons. Hey all I can say is United, Jetblue, Frontier all got great deals on A319/20s and that's the one of only reason they got them. Hey They aren't giving em away but damn close in the financial world.
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warren747sp
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RE: Why Did United Choose A320?

Sun Jun 13, 2004 4:33 am

Offshore bank accounts!
747SP
 
dbo861
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RE: Why Did United Choose A320?

Sun Jun 13, 2004 4:36 am

Does UA still have A320s or A319s on order, or have they received all the planes from that order?
 
JGPH1A
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RE: Why Did United Choose A320?

Sun Jun 13, 2004 4:39 am

Why is this even an issue ? Nobody cares when Air France or Lufthansa buy Boeings, and asks Why doesn't AF ditch the 777 ? It SO DOESN'T MATTER !!
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
ContinentalEWR
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RE: Why Did United Choose A320?

Sun Jun 13, 2004 4:40 am

Because the 737-NG's were not available yet when UA placed the order for the A320 family jets, plus they got a good deal, and needed a midsize and narrow body aircraft to fly transcon.

 
dbo861
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RE: Why Did United Choose A320?

Sun Jun 13, 2004 4:45 am

The reason I wondered why they don't just ditch the A320 and get the 737NGs is because people were saying the only reason UA ordered the A320/319 was because the new 737s weren't available at the time. I just thought that maybe now that they are available, they could maybe replace the 320s with 737s when the time came to get rid of them. I didn't realize How well performing the A320s were for UA. I wasn't trying to say that since United is an American company, they should only order from Boeing since it's American.
 
Guest

RE: Why Did United Choose A320?

Sun Jun 13, 2004 4:46 am

Maybe Airbus are just clever

sell 60 A320's to UA for the price of 50

UA make 20% more cash (assuming they can fill them)

UA order 20% more A320's from Airbus in the next order.

just a theory, and who said the 737NG was better than the A32X's. They are probably the two most evenly matched A/C in the business. Apart from the A318 which rapes the 736.

The difference in fuel burn over 3000nm's assuming similar loads is around 50 (or 0.01%) gallons in favor of the Airbus, very trivial indeed. At least from what i have read, but i hear the 737 has a better DR.
 
GDB
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RE: Why Did United Choose A320?

Sun Jun 13, 2004 5:13 am

One thing Airbus did not do was design A320 series for one airline, no matter how big or influential.
A320 design dates back to the early 80's, when US carriers were equipping with B737-300/400 or MD-80 series, in fact many thought that this would mitigate against US sales of the new Airbus.

BA have a small fleet of ex BCal CFM powered A320's, about the oldest flying, AFAIK no issues with maintenance or rapid aging with them, they fly alongside the much newer ones from BA's own 1998 order.

As for all this stuff about 'free' or hugely discounted aircraft, get real, whatever deals Airbus do, you can bet that Boeing do the same, and did when the main competitor was MDD.

Suggestion, why don't those who cannot accept that when Airbus wins an order, it is based as much on the merits of the aircraft as a successful Boeing order is, or even that the US has some imagined god given right to totally dominate the large airliner business, put their energy into wine
making, you could call it Chateau Delusion, made with sour grapes.
 
snnams
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RE: Why Did United Choose A320?

Sun Jun 13, 2004 5:36 am

Ok, so as some would have me believe here, Airbus are the only one's offering "financial inducements".. no-one remember the Ryanair deal with Boeing for 738's?? I think the phrase Mr O'leary used was "we raped Boeing"...

Food for thought perhaps? Either A and B are just as good as each other or just as bad as each other.. therefore no reason to be having this same bloody tired old debate every week.

Sorry: rant over!
 
worldoftui
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RE: Why Did United Choose A320?

Sun Jun 13, 2004 6:12 am

Dbo861

My apologies. I think I may have misunderstood the "slant" of your post.
As to whether they will replace the A320/319 with the Boeing family when the time comes - who knows. I am sure that there is quite a few years left in the A320's yet.
Having said that, if UA go the same way as NW with their DC9's, I will be a senior citizen by the time they replace them!  Big grin


Mark
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: Why Did United Choose A320?

Sun Jun 13, 2004 6:30 am

Tango-Bravo's question raises another: Why did Boeing design the 737-400 without transcontinental range? 722's were commonly used on transcon or near-transcon routes at the time. Even in those more-tolerant days regarding load factors, surely airlines couldn't be expected to use the 757 as a one-for-one replacement for 722's. No wonder no network-carrier other than USAir in the United States bought the 734.

Putting fuselage plugs in the 733 to make the 734, without preserving transcon range, has to be one of Boeing's worst decisions ever. UA was already a 733 operator and probably would have jumped at a transcontinental 734.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
gigneil
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RE: Why Did United Choose A320?

Sun Jun 13, 2004 9:00 am

Preserving transcontinental range?

The 733 doesn't really have transcontinental range either.

N
 
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mariner
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RE: Why Did United Choose A320?

Sun Jun 13, 2004 9:27 am

Calpilot17:

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Frontier did not "get a great deal" on the Airbus aircraft.

They're paying about $37 million per aircraft (check the SEC filings) which is below list price, but not by much.

They fully expected to go with Boeing (check the press conference), but they were a very tiny airline then, and Boeing wouldn't cut them any slack, either on the price or on certain fleet requirement issues.

Frotnier went to Airbus, who said they weren't interested if it was only to get a better deal out of Beoing. Frontier persuaded them they were serious, and Airbuis agreed.

The order was Boeing's to lose, and they did.

cheers

mariner
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DCA-ROCguy
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RE: Why Did United Choose A320?

Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:25 am

Actually, the 733 has at least close to transcontinental range. In 1992 I flew PIT-LAX in a USAir 733.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
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Jamake1
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RE: Why Did United Choose A320?

Sun Jun 13, 2004 11:27 am

Having worked in the cabin of both Boeing 737/757 and Airbus A-319/20 aircraft, I will say that the Airbuses are by far much more crew and customer-friendly. The width of the cabin of the Airbus aircraft create a much less confining environment than the Boeing counterparts. Plus the Airbuses have a nice wide aisle that allow for passengers to slide past the liquor cart. The aisle on the Boeings do not allow for this. Having worked as a cabin crewmember, the Airbuses, to me, seem to have been more detail oriented in terms of what works for customers and crew. At United at least, none of the 37's or 57's have baby changing stations and all of the Airbuses come equipped with this feature. I have deadheaded and pass travelled numerous times and to me, the Airbuses provide a much more comfortable environment than the Boeings. I, for one am glad that United went with Airbus and I would love to see (although very unlikely) United ditch the 757 in favor of the A-321.
I will say that I loved working the Boeing widebodies, the 3-class 767-300 and 747-400 in particular. I am not a big fan of the 777, but that has more to do with United's cabin configuration rather than the Boeing product. The Airbus fleet is so versitile; United can operate a SFO-LAX leg on the A-319 and then position it on a transcon to PHL, for example. It's a great airplane and if I were travelling on a transcon, I would much prefer the Airbus A-319/20 over any narrow-body 737...NG/700/800, etc...
Come fly the sun.
 
UAMAYBACH1239
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RE: Why Did United Choose A320?

Sun Jun 13, 2004 11:32 am


Udo........I could not paste the link from the site, but here it is..go to United.com
1.Investor Relations
2.1997 annual report
3.Def. 14A Date filed 3/31/1997, read for yourself, on how airbuses were given to UA.

Enjoy
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UAMAYBACH1239
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RE: Why Did United Choose A320?

Sun Jun 13, 2004 11:41 am

Roberta

This is what I was saying in my post above, some people took it personally. I was not ab bashing , just stating the facts. Guess it worked.
a/c flown 737-222/322/522 757/747-1-2-4, 767-2-3, 777-2-3, A319-20, DC10-10-30, L1011-3-5, 727-222adv, MD85-90 flyourfri
 
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mariner
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RE: Why Did United Choose A320?

Sun Jun 13, 2004 12:21 pm

UAMAYBACH1239:

Um - I read that annual report, and I'm not sure which part of it you're using.

I found only one small reference to the Airbus financing:

"...(the company) renegotiated financing arrangements with Airbus...the increase in future minimum lease payments (to Airbus) of approxiately $1.9 billion...."

According to the 1997 Annual Report (not the SEC filing) the majority of UAL's Airbus aircraft were leased - not owned - by UAL.

So perhaps the comment you made in your first post ("practically free") is not quite accurate.

I'm no expert in UAL's affairs but there may have been a fairly standard sale/leaseback deal of earlier purchased aircraft, (which would tie in with the comment from the SEC filing).

Even if it wasn't a sale/leaseback deal, the increase in lease payments of $1.9 billion suggests that the aircraft were a very long way from "practially free".

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
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RayChuang
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Simple: UA Wanted To Replace 727-200's

Sun Jun 13, 2004 1:08 pm

I think the main reason why UA chose the A320 was the fact UA wanted a plane that could be a true replacement for the aging 727-200 fleet; the A320 had the same seating capacity as the 722 but is vastly quieter and more fuel efficient.
 
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flybynight
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RE: Why Did United Choose A320?

Sun Jun 13, 2004 1:16 pm

The question is, what will eventually replace the A320's and A319's?
Assuming UA gets back to a profitable stage, I'd think by the end of the decade, there might be need for a replacement for the Airbuses.
Personally, I don't care if it is A or B, I just want to be on the most comfortable, and maybe unique plane....The challenge has been given!!
Heia Norge!
 
gigneil
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RE: Why Did United Choose A320?

Sun Jun 13, 2004 1:19 pm

Why by the end of the decade?

These planes, despite first flying in 1988, are of the same caliber as the much, much newer 737NG. They might need an interior refit, but otherwise they're good to fly another decade or two.

N
 
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flybynight
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RE: Why Did United Choose A320?

Sun Jun 13, 2004 3:21 pm

Gigneil - I believe around 2010 UA will need to start thinking of replacements for the current Airbuses, and the 733's and 735's. The large carriers (yes, I realize NW will fly DC9's until the turn of the NEXT century!) seem to get rid of their planes after 20 years of service (maybe longer with less stressed wide bodies). That doesn't mean the plane is no longer any good, and it will probably serve well with second-tier airlines or for a freight carrier. Looking at UA's own record, the recently removed 727-200's were used for roughly 20 years (actually, I believe the average of the 727's might have been a little older since most, I believe were built in the late 70's). The762's are starting to get retired after about 20 years of great service.
Of course, the current economic conditions for UA could force a longer life span of its current fleet.
What I am curious about, is if a new, interesting, generation of smaller planes will be on the drawing board to replace the 737 and A320 series. With early 320's and most 733 and 734's getting a little gray (especially by 2010), I'd think there will be a lot competition to replace these planes. I am not so sure the 737 NG's can be tinkered with too much longer before a ground up new design is needed. The Airbus A320 is also about a 20 year old design now (hard to believe!)
Heia Norge!
 
milesrich
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RE: Why Did United Choose A320?

Mon Jun 14, 2004 2:33 am

The comments above about maintanence issues with the A-320 are not surprising. The A-300's didn't last as long in service as their American counterparts, even though they had only two engines. I don't know about Airbus life designs, but a Boeing or MDD aircraft have no cycle or hour limits. They can be maintained and rebuilt indefinitely. On the other hand, many European aircraft had a cycle limit. Most of the above about UA's purchase is true. The A-320 was superior to B-737-400 and was chosen, but the pricing and financing had a lot to do with it. Delta became anti Airbus after their experience with the A-310. After inheriting some from Pan Am, they purchased new ones from the factory, and according to many, they were operational disasters. That probably nixed any Delta Airbus deal. Delta also cancelled two other large orders for MDD and Boeing aircraft, the MD-90. of which 16 were delivered and are in the fleet, and the 737-322, which I believe one or two were delivered but sold and never operated.
 
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sebolino
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RE: Why Did United Choose A320?

Mon Jun 14, 2004 3:01 am

By the time UA finished working with airbus at the end of 1993, the planes were practically free

Sure. In Europe we have a special tax called "Airbus tax" which is meant to pay to give planes away. That's very normal. We do it also for BMW, Mercedes, Alcatel satelites and PABX, Siemens machines, Rolls Royce cars, even the QM2 was given away for free.

We have in Europe the biggest give away industry in the world, that's well known.
 
yul332LX
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RE: Why Did United Choose A320?

Mon Jun 14, 2004 3:24 am

3.Def. 14A Date filed 3/31/1997, read for yourself, on how airbuses were given to UA.

Someone had too much of this: Smokin cool

I like your naivety... I think I am gonna call Airbus exec. and ask for my A320 free trial.  Nuts
E volavo, volavo felice più in alto del sole, e ancora più su mentre il mondo pian piano spariva lontano laggiù ...
 
CalPilot17
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RE: Why Did United Choose A320?

Mon Jun 14, 2004 4:17 am

I along with many other here feel that much of airbus's success can be attributed to the direct government subsidies, it's not like the financial success of a aircraft manufacture could be directly related to a large portion of the development and over all cost of a aircraft being picked up by the government. This is not some shady fact that few know about, the last 20 years it has been widely know that airbus industry's was and still is being subsidized by various European governments. Why would a LCC like Frontier airlines have changed a common 737 fleet over to airbus instead of staying with the 737 were they could have had lower maintenance, training, and operational cost. Unless you would like dispute that training a whole set of pilots A&P F/A ground personal is cost effective, not to mention re-tooling and other various maintenance issues. The reason why Frontier changed over to the airbus was because they could get the a318 and 1319 at a substantially lower cost then a new 737 would cost them or, at least that's how a Frontier Ops manager described it. The Airplanes are extremely evenly matched with respect to the a318/19/20/21 and 737NG. I just want to know why would frontier change from a current fleet type to a totally new one if not for anything other than cost.
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aviaction
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RE: Why Did United Choose A320?

Mon Jun 14, 2004 4:30 am

I reckon Calpilot17 is absolutely right. Frontier chose Airbus solely because they, same as United, got them for free. Courtesy of the European taxpayers. Oh, no wait ... something is wrong here ... if Airbus really gives away their planes for free, as so many experts here claim to know, how come Boeing still manages to sell many aircraft??? Those airline managers still ordering from Boeing - and paying for their planes must be utterly crazy. Otherwise they surely would not do it.


German by nationality, European by heart!
 
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mariner
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RE: Why Did United Choose A320?

Mon Jun 14, 2004 4:42 am

Calpilot17:

"I want to know why would Frontier change from a current fleet type to a totally new one if not for anything other than cost."

Did you not read my previous post? Frontier did not get any special deal from Airbus. $37 million per A319 frame is hardly a "special deal."

Included in that were some, but not many, crew retraining costs, nothing out of the ordinary.

They got a better deal for the first 4 x A318 - because they were the launch customer. All launch customers get a good deal on the first orders of any new type.

But that better deal does not apply to future A318 orders. Sean Menke of Frontier has said of the A318 that they love the plane but they "wish the price tag was lower." His words, not mine.

As I said, originally Frontier fully expected to go with Boeing - they had not even considered or approached Airbus - until Boeing wouldn't play any kind of ball.

The whole Frontier/Airbus/Boeing situation was described at some length by the then CEO Sam Addoms at an Annual General Meeting.

And if you don't believe Frontier's CEO, ask yourself this:

Why did Boeing not even bid for the Spirit Airlines order?

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
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sebolino
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RE: Why Did United Choose A320?

Mon Jun 14, 2004 4:51 am

I along with many other here feel that much of airbus's success can be attributed to the direct government subsidies

Like many others, you have your opinion forged by Fox News and the anti-French and anti-European republican senators.
 
racko
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RE: Why Did United Choose A320?

Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:01 am

Could anyone write a script that automatically replaces "france*speak*german*now*" with "I'm a dumbass"? Would make many posts on here easier to read, it's exhausting to read so many lines and in the end the result can be summarized in one sentence.

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