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RE: Why Did United Choose A320?

Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:02 am

Quotation from Calpilot:
it is degrading to beg them to come and get rid guys like Aviaction, and rescue you so many times.

This is so below the belt, it's incredible.

Is there really nobody on the net who comes to my rescue?

Or who has read my profile?

Peaceful flying to all of us.

Edited for more clarity.

[Edited 2004-06-13 23:06:43]
German by nationality, European by heart!
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RE: Why Did United Choose A320?

Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:13 am

And if it wasn't for the French, you'd still be subjects of the Crown.
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Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:39 pm

RE: Why Did United Choose A320?

Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:20 am

First the "on-topic" part...

United, Frontier and Spirit got good deals on Airbus aircraft, I think no-one will argue that.

But the good deals included getting a plane that fit the mission that they were to be deployed on: if not, the deal could have been as good as anything - if the plane didn't do what it was supposed to, the deal would not have been done.

I bet Cessna would be more than willing to give these airlines a good deal on big fleets of Grand Caravans - the problem is that these airlines cannot use those planes: so regardless of the fact that Cessna would be selling them at a good rate, they're simply not buying. (And, yes, I'm using Cessna and the Grand Caravan as an example - I have no idea if Cessna actually would really offer a good deal...).

So, please, everyone - stop attributing all of Airbus' successes to "giving the planes away": they're not doing that.

If Boeing really wanted to get a majority or only Airbus operator to switch to Boeing, do you really think they'd be paying anywhere near list price? Do you really think that they'd be left with absolutely all re-training, re-tooling and re-equipping costs? The fact that this situation has, so far, practically only come up in connection with Airbus comes from the fact that, because of the realtive youth of Airbus when compared to Boeing, there simply aren't that many conversion-possibilities for Boeing to go after with such deals yet.

Ok, now for the off-topic part... Calpilot17, what have you been smoking???

If you cannot handle a regular discussion... ok, this thread might not really be a good example for the term "discussion"... then stay out of it.

If you must resort to personal attacks - like "use it is degrading to beg them to come and get rid guys like Aviaction", then do so in the sandbox outside your house, but not here.

For the type of post that you just shot off here, there are some threads over in "Non-Aviation" where your comments would be much better placed...


P.S.: Just in case you're winding up to start firing at me now, because it says "Germany" under my name: I'm not German, I only live here... but when I read comments like yours, I almost wish I were German.
Smile - it confuses people!
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RE: Why Did United Choose A320?

Mon Jun 14, 2004 7:31 am


Although what you have posted may be interesting, it is totally irrelevant.

Like I predicted in reply 14, I could see this moving way off topic fairly quickly. I don't want this thread deleted, many people have made some interesting points. It just seems to have been hijacked. To delete the post would be unfair to all of those people who are interested in the topic and have contributed.

And back onto topic

Why would a LCC like Frontier airlines have changed a common 737 fleet over to airbus instead of staying with the 737 were they could have had lower maintenance, training, and operational cost. Unless you would like dispute that training a whole set of pilots A&P F/A ground personal is cost effective, not to mention re-tooling and other various maintenance issues.

Maybe because of a thorough cost evaluation? Maybe they actually looked into it. Fairly sensible considering the amount they were about to spend. Look, not getting into this tax thing with Airbus. Has been discussed to death. Yes Airbus have been receiving governmental favours. And Yes, so have Boeing. It is in gov't interest to make sure that big employers stay in the area / country. Happens in lots of industries. Boeing lost the order for possibly hundreds of reasons, or maybe one. Either way, result was the same. Airbus impressed Frontier more and they decided to make the switch.

I really object to this ridiculous ranting. The aviation forum is no place for discussions on WW2.



[Edited 2004-06-14 00:41:29]
Posts: 507
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RE: Why Did United Choose A320?

Mon Jun 14, 2004 8:05 am

To all:

I sometimes wonder how threads like this manage to get soooo far of topic and move into the world of the mindless and bizarre. When I first read this, it seemed pretty straight forward for anyone who remembers that far back and I believe our friends Gigneil and Udo addressed this right from the start; airbus had a ship that could do what United wanted and Boeing didn't. Pretty simple reason to buy the airbus, don't you think? Yeah, I'm sure airbus gave UA a good deal, but that's the nature of the business, correct? I don't imagine GOL, ANA & ANZ choose Boeing w/o financial incentive....

The Frontier order basically was one which the family concept worked to Airbus' favor. They essentially could address all of frontier's requirements with a combination of the same a/c; Boeing could not.

I don't understand the Spirit order. They originally said they were talking to both framemakers although Boeing said they never had an offer on the table. Who's bullshitting who here? My guess is that with the LCC configured A320 and the orders from jetblue and easyjet in the books, airbus has an advantage here in pricing over a 737 that Boeing would have to configure to a similar standard. This may have worked to get Independence Air and maybe Virgin USA over to airbus.

I'm surprised that nobody noticed that in the original posting, UA was claimed to have changed over to airbus after signing for Boeing; it was US which did that.

Keep the topics to aviation, please.


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RE: Why Did United Choose A320?

Mon Jun 14, 2004 9:34 am

One of the reasons Boeing got caught with its pants down when UA decided to order the A320 was because, at the time, Boeing was working on what would have been a fairly radical replacement for the 737. As I recall, Boeing had begun early stage development of the new plane at least in part in response to Japanese preferences. The Japanese economy was booming then, so it made sense. I don't remember exactly what stalled the project, but the technical problems with something that was wanted for the new model slowed development to the point that, after losing the UA order, Boeing decided it was better to shift full-force to the 737NG, which would come to fruition much more quickly and avert the even greater loss of orders that would have occurred if the 737 Classics had continued to be the only thing competing with the A320.
I'm not dumb. I just have a command of thoroughly useless information.

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