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- nycfuturepilot
- Posts: 773
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Etops Needed For EWR-FLL?
I flew down to FLL on thursday and the pilot said that he was going to make use of the "plane's overwater certificaltion" and do some creative routing to get to fl. i assume that the "overwater certification" was ETOPS but I didnt think that that would be necessary for EWR-FLL. Is it?
Father, Son, HOYA spirit
RE: Etops Needed For EWR-FLL?
It is not necessary, but it is beneficial. If you look at a flight from IAH to MIA, youcould easily fly along the coat line of the gulf of mexico and avoid any relevent over water segments, but you could save a lot of time and fuel by cutting the corner so to speak, and flying as the crow flies and take a more direct over water routing.
J
J
RE: Etops Needed For EWR-FLL?
It might have to do with appropriate provisions for water landing in case of emergency (life rafts, etc.). I don't think EWR-FLL goes far enough out to need ETOPS.
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
RE: Etops Needed For EWR-FLL?
nope...Etops not needed. our flight paths from JFK/BOS to Florida do at times go over water. our planes are not ETOPS'd but we do have over-water flight equipment. so that allows us to fly further over water unlike southwest where they would have to fly along the coast. another good example was mentioned above for the IAH-MIA routing. our LGB-FLL flight goes over the gulf. but not too far off of land again cause of the etops issue.
what is it? you have to be within 30 minutes from land or something like that to not have to be ETOPS'd?
~B6FA4ever
what is it? you have to be within 30 minutes from land or something like that to not have to be ETOPS'd?
~B6FA4ever
RE: Etops Needed For EWR-FLL?
As B6FA4ever said, JetBlue's A320s have overwater equipment. They are not ETOPS certified, but they have life rafts and other emergency equipment for a water ditching. I don't know the exact rule for non-ETOPS aircraft, but I think they need to be within 60 minutes of land. Can someone please verify this number? Often times, our aircraft will request over-water routes to bypass traffic jams with New York and Washington ARTCCs. This congestion may be a result of thunderstorms or other weather fronts building up along the eastern seaboard. Over-water routes allow our aircraft to fly far enough from land, so that they're no longer under the watch of New York or Washington Centers. These aircraft can communicate with ARINC on HF radios.
A good question, nycfuturepilot!
A good question, nycfuturepilot!
RE: Etops Needed For EWR-FLL?
Modesto2 has it right that overwater certified non ETOPS twin engine AC are allowed to fly no further than 60mins from the nearest airport.
The great circle mapper shows that a direct route from EWR-FLL is well within this 60min radius.
http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=ewr-fll%0D%0A&RANGE=&PATH-COLOR=red&PATH-UNITS=mi&SPEED-GROUND=&SPEED-UNITS=kts&RANGE-STYLE=outline&RANGE-COLOR=navy&MAP-STYLE=&ETOPS=60
Dl757md
The great circle mapper shows that a direct route from EWR-FLL is well within this 60min radius.
http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=ewr-fll%0D%0A&RANGE=&PATH-COLOR=red&PATH-UNITS=mi&SPEED-GROUND=&SPEED-UNITS=kts&RANGE-STYLE=outline&RANGE-COLOR=navy&MAP-STYLE=&ETOPS=60
Dl757md
757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
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- ConcordeBoy
- Posts: 16852
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RE: Etops Needed For EWR-FLL?
ETOPS certification and over-water certification, are in essence differing concepts... both of which can be earned without the acquisition of the other.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
RE: Etops Needed For EWR-FLL?
Yeah, forget about ETOPS-- that has nothing to do with it. Years back OPNLguy explained about offshore limits:
https://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/74115/
https://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/74115/
RE: Etops Needed For EWR-FLL?
Jeez, has it been 5 years since I wrote that? 
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
RE: Etops Needed For EWR-FLL?
Isn't this why Southwest routes from Texas to FL (specifically TPA) take route that flies them much closer to land than a direct routing. I believe that Southwest doesn't certify it flights for routes over water to keep costs low. Can anyone confirm?
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- ConcordeBoy
- Posts: 16852
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RE: Etops Needed For EWR-FLL?
yeah, you're right
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
RE: Etops Needed For EWR-FLL?
Now I'm confused. Is it 60 minutes or 50nm? What's the rule? Thanks.
RE: Etops Needed For EWR-FLL?
There's ETOPS rules (60 minutes, etc) and liferaft rules (50 nm, etc). No connection between the two.
RE: Etops Needed For EWR-FLL?
AC that ARE NOT over water certified(liferafts and life jackets) can fly no further than 50NM from land.
AC that ARE overwater certified but NOT ETOPS can fly past 50NM from land but CAN NOT fly more than 60mins at single engine cruise speed from a suitable airport....land or water.
AC that are ETOPS, are of cousre over water certified, and can fly up to the their ETOPS cert. (120mins,180mins,etc.) away from a suitable airport......land or water.
To clarify ETOPS is not over water but rather it is distance from a suitable airport.
Dl757md
AC that ARE overwater certified but NOT ETOPS can fly past 50NM from land but CAN NOT fly more than 60mins at single engine cruise speed from a suitable airport....land or water.
AC that are ETOPS, are of cousre over water certified, and can fly up to the their ETOPS cert. (120mins,180mins,etc.) away from a suitable airport......land or water.
To clarify ETOPS is not over water but rather it is distance from a suitable airport.
Dl757md
757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
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