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scbriml
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RE: Virgin America Orders A320 Family

Wed Jun 16, 2004 1:33 pm

Yep, this one little 18 European plane airline

If you'd read the release, you'd know it was actually a little 33 European plane airline, with options on over 100 planes.  Smile
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
N766UA
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RE: Virgin America Orders A320 Family

Wed Jun 16, 2004 2:01 pm

An American LCC owned by a foreign company flying foreign jets.... yeah I shant be flying them.
 
RT514
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RE: Virgin America Orders A320 Family

Wed Jun 16, 2004 2:10 pm

Yep, this one little 18 European plane airline will definitely save the US economy. That is one brilliant comment

L1011, you obviously misinterpreted Reid's statement. Reid cited this as a boost to the U.S. economy and I'll chime in that it's a needed one at that.



I too, am failing to see the problem here. Here is a venture that will bring local employment, it will offer the public increased choices, it will serve to keep things even more competitive, it will stimulate the economy, and it will even give spotters one more color of bird to photograph.

As for those who are angry at Branson for eluding to the fact that VS-USA would buy American Aircraft...
Well, hope that he is just as inconsistent when VS buys more aircraft. Remember the 4 engine thing? All of the 777 hopefuls would certainly hope that Branson has yet another change of heart.

Would business travelers fly on this airline? Absolutely. Times are tougher and I myself have noticed that Business Class on mainstream airlines aren't quite the coveted commodity they once were. LCC's counted on the public wanting less expensive, no-frills air travel. That's exactly the evolution that is taking shape.

Overall, here is a capitalistic, free enterprise economy that is soon to have another player in the fold. By virtue of the theories of capitalism itself, the only thing that should be said is "Welcome".

See?!? No problem.
 
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scbriml
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RE: Virgin America Orders A320 Family

Wed Jun 16, 2004 2:23 pm

An American LCC owned by a foreign company flying foreign jets.... yeah I shant be flying them.

I'm sure SRB is currently re-evaluating VS-USA's business plan based on that shattering piece of news. I suppose, on the basis of it's high foreign content, you won't fly on the 7E7 either?  Insane
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Virgin America Orders A320 Family

Wed Jun 16, 2004 2:23 pm

It will be VERY interesting to see if Virgin America puts in PTV systems like JetBlue (B6) did with the A320 and Frontier (F9) will do to much of its Airbus fleet (the F9 A318's have them already).

I also find it kind of strange that Virgin America has ordered the CFM56 engine for its A319/A320 fleet, considering that United Airlines (UA) and US Airways (US) use the IAE V2500 engine on their A319/A320 fleet. If Virgin America had ordered the planes with V2500's it would have made it easier to the new startup to grab ex-US A319/A320 planes just in case US Airways goes under.
 
N766UA
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RE: Virgin America Orders A320 Family

Wed Jun 16, 2004 2:44 pm

I suppose, on the basis of it's high foreign content, you won't fly on the 7E7 either?

No I'm not that bad. I just don't like Airbusses. If I have another choice, I'll take an American carrier. I'm sure there's some product you can think of that you won't buy for some reason or another. It's like that. Just not my cup of tea.

[Edited 2004-06-16 08:09:29]
 
gamarocchi
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RE: Virgin America Orders A320 Family

Wed Jun 16, 2004 4:27 pm

ETStar, please don't use Airbii as a plural for Airbus. That would be correct if Airbus were a Latin word, which is not the case, since it is AIR + BUS, and the plural form of bus is not bii.
 
artsyman
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RE: Virgin America Orders A320 Family

Wed Jun 16, 2004 4:38 pm

t will be VERY interesting to see if Virgin America puts in PTV systems like JetBlue
***

They are putting in PTV. They were actually in negotiations on the entertainment system over a year ago.

J
 
A340600
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RE: Virgin America Orders A320 Family

Wed Jun 16, 2004 5:59 pm

As an American I can freely say that we need to get over ourselves.

Thank you. I'm sooo sick of Amercian's slating anything that's not boeing, GET OVER IT!!!

This is an example of someone trying to fault the Airbus in everyway they can:
While the A320 series has a slightly wider aisle, I've always preferred the window seat on the 737 over the A320. If you look carefully, you'll see the contour of the A320 curves in greater leaving less shoulder room to the sidewall.

And stupid comments about how you're not going to fly them because they're going Airbus seems VERY pathetic to me.

They're both good aircraft though IMO the 737 though is less crew friendly because the inner design hasn't really changed since the late 60's.

Sam

[Edited 2004-06-16 11:04:38]
Despite the name I am a Boeing man through and through!
 
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scbriml
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RE: Virgin America Orders A320 Family

Wed Jun 16, 2004 6:22 pm

I also find it kind of strange that Virgin America has ordered the CFM56 engine for its A319/A320 fleet,

Could that decision have been made on the basis of leasing from GECAS?  Smile
Maybe GECAS had earlier delivery slots than ILFC, so that swung the decision in favour of the CFMs? The press release doesn't say if the first deliveries are the leased or purchased aircraft.
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scbriml
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RE: Virgin America Orders A320 Family

Wed Jun 16, 2004 6:26 pm

It's like that. Just not my cup of tea.

Well, as long as you decision is based on logic!  Smile

I've never booked a flight based on what type of plane will operate the service. Oh, I lie - in Cuba I booked a particular flight so I could fly an An-2! Big grin
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
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ushermittwoch
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RE: Virgin America Orders A320 Family

Wed Jun 16, 2004 7:11 pm

"Username: N766UA
From United States, joined Jul 1999, 3148 posts, RR: 53

Reply: 55
Posted Wed Jun 16 2004 07:44:49 UTC+1 and read 889 times:

I suppose, on the basis of it's high foreign content, you won't fly on the 7E7 either?

No I'm not that bad. I just don't like Airbusses. If I have another choice, I'll take an American carrier. I'm sure there's some product you can think of that you won't buy for some reason or another. It's like that. Just not my cup of tea."

Funny how you've got a picture of you in a Jungle Jet in your profile.

And to L.1011, I am happy to inform you that a lot of parts for ANY Airbus are produced in your country, thus making every Airbus order a small boost for your economy.

And anybody who has ever taken Latin should know that the potential plural ending of "bus" would be "bi" and not "bii".
Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
[email protected]
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RE: Virgin America Orders A320 Family

Wed Jun 16, 2004 7:58 pm

After reading this thread, could someone PLEASE PLEASE explain to me why Americans have such a hostile attitude towards anything "foreign"? Surely it's not patriotism.
In Arsene we trust!!
 
EAL757
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RE: Virgin America Orders A320 Family

Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:19 pm

Okay guys--if people in here want to support Boeing, let 'em. Their opinion is just as valid as yours. As much as I hate the fact that Virgin USA is coming and with French built planes, I at least can respect the thoughts of those of you who are rolling out the red carpet. BUT, my personal opinion is that Virgin USA still has ties to Virgin, which is a foreign company, and for the sake of our classics: American, United & Delta, I do think that it's a mistake to let them in. Bash my opinion all you want, but it's my opinion so deal with it.

Re: the big 3...there is great history behind those airlines...they haven't really done us any dis-service; they've served us well. But just like Super Wal-Mart killing everything in it's path, they've been forced to adjust in a pretty hostile way. These were airlines that offered good service, extensive routes and all at a decent price. Now there's an influx of carriers that are stabbing at different points of the majors. Competition is good, but at the same time, protect the big carriers--give them a chance to adjust! Flying used to be a really cool experience--it was half the fun of a trip. Why? Because you put on some decent clothes, got a decent meal and experienced the nostalgia of the moment. i still have pictures of my younger days of being in the cockpit with the captain before takeoff and how he'd explain what did what and such. ...today it's a bus stop--get on and off as fast as possible. Well, sometimes we need a quick flight without the fun and so the LCC's serve us well. BUT, the majors still offer us hope that air travel can be truly fun again...give them a chance to survive and keep Virgin USA out!

Ok...here's your chance to bash me--have at it, because I fully expect it
 
kalakaua
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RE: Virgin America Orders A320 Family

Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:23 pm

Well, I think some Americans believe that if you bear the name "America," "United States," or anything related... you'd expect the thing to be something American. It's not that Americans don't like foreign things... Many Americans love exotic things like Italian leather, Japanese sushi, Indian curry, Spanish Paella, etc... But when it comes to the name America, Americans want a hardcore American product. I bet most people would detest the President of the United States rode a Maybach, which is like shunning deep-rooted American Ford or Chevy employees. It's not that Americans don't like Airbus, it's just that they're hardcore loyalists. But I really do think this Virgin Empire that Branson is building should tone down a bit.
Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion.
 
[email protected]
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RE: Virgin America Orders A320 Family

Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:34 pm

It's not that Americans don't like Airbus, it's just that they're hardcore loyalists

Are you totally confident saying this? I've just read someone yelling they don't like those "European Airbuses". We read it all the time, something along the lines of "i hope airline XYZ orders Boeing because i don't like Airbus". how many times have you read that on this forum?

But I really do think this Virgin Empire that Branson is building should tone down a bit.

Really? How about Mcdonalds stops expanding it's empire in the UK? There's a Mcdonalds restaurant every 200 metres in central London, you don't hear us bitching and moaning about foreign companies do you? Or how about every computer user stops using Microsoft software on their PC's? After all, Microsoft is a business empire. Or how about we boycott every British airline that buys boeing because it didn't but British?
Why is it OK for you to ram your capitalism down everyone else's throat, and yet when someone else wants to do the same in your country your start crying and whining?
In Arsene we trust!!
 
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Buyantukhaa
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RE: Virgin America Orders A320 Family

Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:36 pm

Well, being somebody who studied Latin I can tell you that bus (public transport vehicle on wheels) comes from the Latin word "omnibus" which means "to all" or "for all" and is in fact plural already. So Airbii is as much as a linguistic offense as, let's say, Vueling. Now back to the topic!
I scratch my head, therefore I am.
 
MD-90
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RE: Virgin America Orders A320 Family

Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:40 pm

Competition is good, but at the same time, protect the big carriers--give them a chance to adjust!

No thanks. The result of that is carriers like Air France. How can they be efficient when they've operated practically every modern airliner type from the last two decades?

But just like Super Wal-Mart killing everything in it's path, they've been forced to adjust in a pretty hostile way.

Because the CUSTOMERS like Wal-Mart's and Southwest's low prices and how they don't play games with them (like $199 fares a month in advance and $1999 fares a day in advance).

for the sake of our classics: American, United & Delta, I do think that it's a mistake to let them in.

Because protecting them is not going to make them better airlines.


Consider yourself well-based (at least by my standards). Big grin I love Delta Air Lines and I hate to see the management fumbles they've made in the 1990s and the current pilot pay situation, but nothing lasts forever. The wisest words ever spoken - "This too shall pass."
 
FFlyer
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RE: Virgin America Orders A320 Family

Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:57 pm

"While there are still a few airlines (in Europe) where the government holds a minority stake"

A few? Most of them, the only real exceptions are a few LCC's, and BA. Government owned national airlines include: Finnair, SAS, Lufthansa, Alitalia, Air France, all the Eastern European airlines, etc....

"the only recent government bail-out of an airline was the Swiss government's action towards the collapse of Swissair"

The governments of the national airline host countries have been pumping money into their airlines for centuries, and always when its needed.
 
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sebolino
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RE: Virgin America Orders A320 Family

Wed Jun 16, 2004 9:22 pm

MD90 , FFlyer:

1) We don't care what you think about European airlines.
2) US airlines were heavily subsidised after 11/09 (18 billions dollars in 2001 for example), so stop your ugly hypocrisy.

The result of that is carriers like Air France. How can they be efficient when they've operated practically every modern airliner type from the last two decades

Strange, it had no subsidies during the hard 11/09 crisis unlike American companies, and it's still one of the most profitable company. Not efficient ?
 
Treg
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RE: Virgin America Orders A320 Family

Wed Jun 16, 2004 9:30 pm

A few? Most of them, the only real exceptions are a few LCC's, and BA. Government owned national airlines include: Finnair, SAS, Lufthansa, Alitalia, Air France, all the Eastern European airlines, etc....

Not really true when it comes to the Eastern Europe. Estonian Air (OV) was privatized in 1996. Air Baltic (Latvian Flag carrier) also some years ago.

But now back to the topic...
 
Guest

RE: Virgin America Orders A320 Family

Wed Jun 16, 2004 9:42 pm

And it must be pointed out that Switzerland is not a member of the EU, and therefore it can do what it likes in terms of its national carrier. All EU member states are not able to do the same now. Alitalia is a good example as the Italian government simply cannot bail out what is a failing airline.
 
kalakaua
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RE: Virgin America Orders A320 Family

Wed Jun 16, 2004 9:46 pm

[email protected]LHR

Why are you such a biter? You're only repeating what everyone else sees. Give me something to care about. Give me a break. Your diatribe is ludicrous. [email protected]LHR, the answer to world peace!  Smokin cool
Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion.
 
goomba
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RE: Virgin America Orders A320 Family

Wed Jun 16, 2004 9:55 pm

The bubble will burst for some airlines.

From the legacy side - USAir should really worry.

From the LCC side - JetBlue

I don't think Southwest and AirTran are sweating the arrival of Virgin America too much.


 
N766UA
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RE: Virgin America Orders A320 Family

Wed Jun 16, 2004 10:01 pm

Funny how you've got a picture of you in a Jungle Jet in your profile.

Is an ERJ made by Airbus? No. Moot point.

Well, as long as you decision is based on logic.

Well, I'm a pilot and to me the Airbus isn't much of a pilot's airplane. Also, on the 3 times that I've flown A320s, the approaches and whatnot haven't been particularly wonderful. A friend of mine had the same problem. It's not the greatest basis for not liking a product, but hey at least it's based on experiance. And to clear things up, It's not that I don't like foreign aircraft, far from it, however if I'm flying an American LCC between 2 American cities I'm going to take Southwest with a 737 over Virgin with an A320.
 
N766UA
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RE: Virgin America Orders A320 Family

Wed Jun 16, 2004 10:03 pm

After reading this thread, could someone PLEASE PLEASE explain to me why Americans have such a hostile attitude towards anything "foreign"? Surely it's not patriotism.

We don't, it's just cultural differences make it seem that way.
 
ultrapig
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RE: Virgin America Orders A320 Family

Wed Jun 16, 2004 10:10 pm

1. As stated above-its obvious that VA could not have picked 737's if it wanted to start up on its stated scheduled because of availability.
2. I've flown on both types of aircraft and there is no question that the airbuses are more comfortable for the passenger
3. It appears from my unexpert view that lifespan of the 737 is longer in view of the number of a320's which are out of service-
4. Since a significant cost is aircraft depreciation airlines not only have to battle operating costs but don't really know what the capital costs of operating its aircraft are unless it is leasing aircraft with no variable reserves which require it to participate in the gain or loss on resale.
 
SailorOrion
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RE: Virgin America Orders A320 Family

Wed Jun 16, 2004 10:10 pm

LH is NOT government owned ..

SailorOrion
 
RT514
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RE: Virgin America Orders A320 Family

Wed Jun 16, 2004 10:20 pm

Wow, lots of xenophobia around here.


the Airbus isn't much of a pilot's airplane

Purely an opinion. In any case, what's that got to do with choices when it comes to purchasing air travel?


Also, on the 3 times that I've flown A320s, the approaches and whatnot haven't been particularly wonderful

So what? The roughest landing I was ever on was aboard a B733 in perfectly fine conditions. Fly enough and you will find that "rough landings" happen from time to time, on all airlines and on all aircraft types. Shunning an aircraft type because of a few rough landings will eventually equate to your carrier of choice being none other than Greyhound.

 
ushermittwoch
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RE: Virgin America Orders A320 Family

Wed Jun 16, 2004 10:29 pm

Of course the ERJ is not built by Airbus. You were saying that you'd prefer to fly American. Thus it would have proven a better point to have a picture of a US plane up.
Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
N766UA
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RE: Virgin America Orders A320 Family

Wed Jun 16, 2004 10:30 pm

Hey at least I have reasons for not liking a particular aircraft. I didn't know there were guidelines for liking or disliking certain things, though. I thought personal experiance and opinion were quite enough to base such a thing on? Am I wrong? Should I find some other reason for not liking Airbus? Or Radioshack? Or Wal Mart Electronics?
 
F4N
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RE: Virgin America Orders A320 Family

Wed Jun 16, 2004 10:34 pm

Neil:

1) Republicanomics that set the current tax laws, where its much cheaper both bottom line wise and tax wise to offshore.
2) Unions. Simple.
3) The average American worker these days is uneducated and lazy, and American CEOs know it.


In a discussion board where broad, sweeping generalisations are the norm and fact is often casualty to opinion, hear-say, uninformed protectionist sentiment or a peculiar sublimation of a/c orders into patriotism or nationalism, I find the above statement to be one of the worst ones that I've come across in the 4+ years that I have participated in a.net. I would have expected something like this to be posted in another current thread " Shocker-Airbus in talks with US carriers for A380", where some of the most puerile and inane of the Boeing-Airbus flag-wavers  Nuts, horn-blowers  Nuts and drum-beaters  Nuts are competing to be the most insulting and ignorant asshole on a.net.

I will agree with you on point 1, Republicanomics  Nuts  Nuts  Nuts(interesting term) is probably the most debilitating thing to happen to America in the last quarter of the 20th century and continues to this day. The notion that you can cut taxes (reduce income), increase spending and participate in feel-good wars and expiditions is sheer madness. It is indebting the country, marginalizing our competitiveness and reducing our influence.

2. Unions. I don't understand this point. Union membership is roughly 10-15 percent of American businesses and limited mainly to primary manufacture. How does this influence business decisions by corporations or individuals? It has not stopped foreign automakers from setting up shop here despite the fact they will more likely than not have to deal with what is arguably the most reaction union, the UAW. Branson and his investors have to know that most US airlines unionize too. Incidently, I am not a union member although I belonged to the USW for 7 years long ago. If you've ever worked in primary manufacture, you would understand that unions have their place.

3. American workers are lazy and uneducated-and American CEO's know it.
Really? Which ones? Ebbers? Skilling? Carty? Condit? Waksal? Perhaps if they weren't so involved in illegal and/or unethical practices, they would have more time to develop their workforces. Do you consider your statement all-inclusive? If so, you must either have a self-esteem problem or are wealthy enough not to work. In my job I often have the opportunity to see the information on the productivity numbers of my employers US, European and Latin American operations. In virtually all measurable categories, the US operation is first,
output, unit-cost, hours available/worked. By these metrics, these are hardly "lazy" people.
While I would hardly suggest that the other operations are inferior in any way, the numbers are the numbers. Uneducated? Perhaps factory workers have a tendency to be high-school graduates and not move on with their education, but I hardly think that is why US businesses move or expand off-shore. Ever been to a "maquiladora" plant on the Tex-Mex border? I have. I think the wages of < $1 an hour have more to do with it. I won't even comment on the education level. Let's just say there is very little university amongst the working folk.

More to the topic. I have a hard time with the notion expressed that another LCC is great for the economy. I really have no idea how much American content is in any Airbus, so whether the value of the combined US input is great enough to offset the unit cost of the completed ship (and its impact on the current-account balance sheet) when it comes here is unknown. I suspect the the overall balance is in favor of the Europeans, but I don't know.
Virgin USA will create some jobs, sure. It is part owned by US investors, sure. Makes low-cost travel available, sure. Does it generate value-added assets to the economy to earn foreign exchange? No. Does it add to the asset-base of the US, no. Does it provide any value-added services which could benefit the economy? No.

On the whole, it represents just another service. Some good undoubtedly comes from it, but it is hardly the panacea some would suggest. Put another way, I would far rather see Airbus open a plant here to build tankers or make A320's than to see another LCC open their doors. A true manufacturing plant is everything to the economy that a service organization is not.

regards,

F4N




 
gamarocchi
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RE: Virgin America Orders A320 Family

Wed Jun 16, 2004 10:36 pm

BuyantUkhaa, yes omnibus is Latin, and it is plural, but it is dative, it makes no sense at all to change it in any way. And anyway "airbus" is a composite word, a reason more for it to be indeclinable :P.
 
leelaw
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RE: Virgin America Orders A320 Family

Wed Jun 16, 2004 10:50 pm

I'm sure Boeing is disappointed they didn't get the order, manufacturers never like to lose an order to the competition. However, predicting the imminent demise of the 737NG as result of losing this sale is silly. I'm perplexed by VA's decision to start with a hub at SFO, didn't Shuttle by United and WN fail with the LCC model at that airport?
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
SAS330GOT
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RE: Virgin America Orders A320 Family

Wed Jun 16, 2004 11:40 pm

Legacy carrier turning LCC.
Look at SAS, (snowflake) They are doing like United with TED, even the main carrier SAS is offering a small sandwich and drinks. This is the trend in all carriers, I believe there is not going to be a big meals on flights anymore.
SAS330GOT
 
robw340
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RE: Virgin America Orders A320 Family

Wed Jun 16, 2004 11:52 pm

Yes, Shuttle by UA had some problems at SFO, and WN got fed up with delays and high fees ....but SFO has been hurting and they're bending backwards for Branson & related executives from VirginAmerica..What i've heard they're getting all kinds of breaks and also a huge maintenance facility...Some of these post are so silly; but this is a forum and anybody can say whatever, so here's my own personal opinion: for narrowbody, in spite the fact that i really like 737ng, i prefer the a320 family, and it's just a personal preference ....VirginAmerica will do good, same as Virgin Blue and Virgin Atlantic, specially because for the regular Joe, which plane from where or how it's made doesnt make a difference, as long as the price and quality are fairly decent....People at my work place have heard jetBlue is great, whereas a year ago they had no idea what they were or meant (they didnt fly here back then), and already have plans to fly them on their next east coast trips...Its the same as with mobile phones, tv's, computers, cars: some people prefer North American made, some dont  Smile
 
captaink
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RE: Virgin America Orders A320 Family

Wed Jun 16, 2004 11:56 pm

What's the big deal, whether Virgin America uses Boeing or Airbus? I mean come on, big European carriers, have large Boeing fleets.
Look Up
 
RT514
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RE: Virgin America Orders A320 Family

Thu Jun 17, 2004 12:06 am

I thought personal experience and opinion were quite enough to base such a thing on? Am I wrong? Should I find some other reason for not liking Airbus?

No, not wrong at all. As for finding other reasons to dislike Airbus, are you actually looking for other reasons for disliking Airbus? If that's the case, that's merely rationalization of an opinion already formed. N766UA, please bear in mind that your opinion is merely being talked about, not attacked.


On the whole, it represents just another service. Some good undoubtedly comes from it, but it is hardly the panacea some would suggest

I think its implications are far more than "just another service". In any case, your point is fair enough, but I don't think that anyone is claiming the introduction of this airline to be any sort of panacea. I think that some people are just countering the unwarranted defensiveness and resistance to the concept of VS-USA taking to the skies.



 
[email protected]
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RE: Virgin America Orders A320 Family

Thu Jun 17, 2004 12:07 am

Why are you such a biter? You're only repeating what everyone else sees. Give me something to care about. Give me a break. Your diatribe is ludicrous. [email protected]LHR, the answer to world peace!

I'm trying to chill out, but when you read some of the stuff here it makes you wonder why some people think the way they do. Why do so many have an emotional attachment to Boeing? These are inanimate objects, the point is, noboby complains when a European carrier places a massive order from Boeing, but when someone places a big Airbus order, all these patriots come out of the woodwork and denounce every foreigner and foreign object in sight. Read Eclipseflight7's post, but it was deleted thankfully.
In Arsene we trust!!
 
captaink
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RE: Virgin America Orders A320 Family

Thu Jun 17, 2004 12:31 am

Do you guys know that Americans invest in companies all around the world? I am certain that the ar e American investors in airlines around the world. That is just the way it is.

This is an ever changing economy. Yes ,the classics have served us well over the years. So have PanAm and Eastern, and even TWA. These were classics too. In fact PanAm, was a true classic, being one of the oldest airlines around. But they are gone now, aren't they. Why should Legacy carriers be saved by your taxpaying dollars? TO make the shareholders richer? Or are you worried there won't be airlines to take up the slack. Well PanAM had great routes, but they were picked up by other carriers, and that trend will continue. Don't worry, you will still be able to get where you are going. If US, UA, AA, DL etc cannot make it, then they will have to go, and you guys will live, and the aviation industry will move on.

EAL757 said,
Flying used to be a really cool experience--it was half the fun of a trip. Why? Because you put on some decent clothes, got a decent meal and experienced the nostalgia of the moment. i still have pictures of my younger days of being in the cockpit with the captain before takeoff and how he'd explain what did what and such. ...today it's a bus stop--get on and off as fast as possible.

Many things used to be more exciting in times past, or when it first came out. Trains and ships must have been really awesome when they first came out too. But flying is fast becoming just another way to get where you are going, except for the enthusiast.

Who knows, maybe in a few years, when space travel becomes available, the nostalgia experienced from flying in times past, will now be in space travel.

All that aside, the bottom line is, that Virgin USA seems to be happening. Can we stop it, because they didn't buy Boeing? Or becuase they have part foreign ownership? NO we can't, it is not up to us. Will they make it? Virgin is very powerful brand ladies and gentlemen. And it if is one thing they have going for them is their name. NYC and SFO, two great cities, with competitive fares and a great product, Virgin USA would be putting up a strong fight in aviation "boxing ring." Good luck to them, and to the other carriers involved.
Look Up
 
flyingbronco05
Posts: 3484
Joined: Fri May 10, 2002 11:43 am

RE: Virgin America Orders A320 Family

Thu Jun 17, 2004 12:33 am

Boeing, once again, gets ass raped. Boeing needs to lower the prices for their 737's or offer something Airbus can't.
Never Trust Your Fuel Gauge
 
N766UA
Posts: 8339
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 1999 3:50 am

RE: Virgin America Orders A320 Family

Thu Jun 17, 2004 12:45 am

As for finding other reasons to dislike Airbus, are you actually looking for other reasons for disliking Airbus?

Quite the opposite. I'm trying to find reasons to like Airbus, I just haven't quite found anything grand about them yet. Not like I hate Airbus or anything like that, I just don't prefer them. Apart from the reasons I mentioned before, coupled with my rather heavy disliking of Noel Foregard, I can't really say much else about my reasoning.
 
NWA742
Posts: 4505
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 11:35 am

RE: Virgin America Orders A320 Family

Thu Jun 17, 2004 12:47 am

Boeing, once again, gets ass raped. Boeing needs to lower the prices for their 737's or offer something Airbus can't.

Actually losing this order wasn't exactly Boeing's fault. They said they'd order Boeings if we lifted foreign ownership laws, in which we didn't.

Also, Boeing's pretty much booked up completely for 2005 with 737 slots, Virgin USA would not be able to build up their fleet as fast as they could with Airbus.

-------------------------------------------

I find it funny how quite a few of the Europeans on this board are pissed because not everyone in the US supports this idea. You guys are such hypocrites, if we brought an LCC over to Europe, some of you would be going insane.




-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15079
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Virgin America Orders A320 Family

Thu Jun 17, 2004 12:58 am

Re: if we brought an LCC over to Europe, some of you would be going insane.

Why ?

- US carriers have operated intra-European flights for years eg. PA/UA ex LHR, DL ex AB) (FRA / FRF / EDDF), Germany">FRA.
- PA's Intra-German services.
- AI/KU/BG/SQ and others operate EU-US flights.
- The biggest LCC in France is British (U2). The biggest LCC in the UK is Irish (FR).

So ? If they're cheaper than FR and fly from proper airports, bring 'em on !
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
NWA742
Posts: 4505
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 11:35 am

RE: Virgin America Orders A320 Family

Thu Jun 17, 2004 1:00 am

Re: if we brought an LCC over to Europe, some of you would be going insane.

Why ?

- US carriers have operated intra-European flights for years eg. PA/UA ex LHR, DL ex AB) (AB) (FRA / FRF / EDDF), Germany">FRA / FRF / EDDF), Germany">AB) (FRA / FRF / EDDF), Germany">FRA.
- PA's Intra-German services.
- AI/KU/BG/SQ and others operate EU-US flights.
- The biggest LCC in France is British (U2). The biggest LCC in the UK is Irish (FR).

So ? If they're cheaper than FR and fly from proper airports, bring 'em on !


Don't take me wrong, I never said all of you would be opposed to it, but there would certainly be some. In the examples you provided, are not much like an entirely new US airline beginnng base operations in Europe though.



-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
pixuk
Posts: 305
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 8:44 am

RE: Virgin America Orders A320 Family

Thu Jun 17, 2004 1:05 am

NWA742

"I find it funny how quite a few of the Europeans on this board are pissed because not everyone in the US supports this idea. You guys are such hypocrites, if we brought an LCC over to Europe, some of you would be going insane."

Be my guest. I'd probably prefer to fly on JetBlue from London - Paris than EasyJet or RyanAir anyday.

I don't think the Europeans are at all pissed at not getting support for the idea from US posters. What you're seeing is a natural reaction to some of the irrational arguments.

Pix
 
[email protected]
Posts: 7510
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 2:55 am

RE: Virgin America Orders A320 Family

Thu Jun 17, 2004 1:07 am

Quite the opposite. I'm trying to find reasons to like Airbus, I just haven't quite found anything grand about them yet. Not like I hate Airbus or anything like that, I just don't prefer them. Apart from the reasons I mentioned before, coupled with my rather heavy disliking of Noel Foregard, I can't really say much else about my reasoning.

Why do you need "reasons" to like Airbus? They are a European aircraft manufacturer locked in competition with Boeing, what's there to hate about that? I thought we were supposed to be aviation fans who liked aircraft in general? This isn't like sports where you are loyal to one team and hate the other.
In Arsene we trust!!
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15079
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Virgin America Orders A320 Family

Thu Jun 17, 2004 1:07 am

The only people like to object are the entrenched bone-idle layabouts at AF who will go on strike, forcing their poor long-suffering bloody pax into the arms of the most-welcome US competition. Trust me on this.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
babybus
Posts: 2379
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2003 5:07 am

RE: Virgin America Orders A320 Family

Thu Jun 17, 2004 1:20 am

I'm sure, what will be, America's best performing airline deserves the world's best aircraft.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
NWA742
Posts: 4505
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 11:35 am

RE: Virgin America Orders A320 Family

Thu Jun 17, 2004 1:26 am

I'm sure, what will be, America's best performing airline deserves the world's best aircraft.





-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs

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