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ConcordeBoy
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772LR Gets ~ANOTHER~ Range/payload Boost

Thu Jul 15, 2004 4:05 am

Good stuff... this is like the 4th one  Big thumbs up  Big thumbs up
(source: Boeing News Now)

Models will now offer up to 10,840mi (9420nm/17446km), thus further solidifying its due title as longest ranged commercial aircraft ever, upon EIS.




773ER also gets a boost to 7,880nm range... giving later units greater reach than even the 772ER, which for a long time was also the longest ranged aircraft in commercial service.
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Cory6188
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RE: 772LR Gets ~ANOTHER~ Range/payload Boost

Thu Jul 15, 2004 4:09 am

So does that mean that the long-awaited NYC-SYD or LHR-SYD would finally be possible?
 
miaskies
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RE: 772LR Gets ~ANOTHER~ Range/payload Boost

Thu Jul 15, 2004 4:10 am

It would be great to see MIA-CPT service on AA 772LR! Dreaming....
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mlsrar
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RE: 772LR Gets ~ANOTHER~ Range/payload Boost

Thu Jul 15, 2004 4:16 am

This is great news. Thanks for sharing.
I mean, for the right price I’ll fight a lion. - Mike Tyson
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: 772LR Gets ~ANOTHER~ Range/payload Boost

Thu Jul 15, 2004 4:19 am

It would be great to see MIA-CPT service on AA 772LR!

...the current Trent890-powered AA 772ERs could do it already

Profitability (FAA-related), and pilot work contractual obligations are a problem for now though.
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DIA
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RE: 772LR Gets ~ANOTHER~ Range/payload Boost

Thu Jul 15, 2004 4:20 am

Nice news. . .definately.

Now, why the boost? Is there a particular airline that is interested in purchasing a few LRs, but needed even more range?
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mlsrar
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RE: 772LR Gets ~ANOTHER~ Range/payload Boost

Thu Jul 15, 2004 4:23 am

I can't necessarily see a value-add on the 772s, but the 773ERs first jump in the proposed range was great.

This revelation is just a selling point that is hard to ignore from a financial standpoint.

I do wonder what changes on the interior were made that were significant enough to shave off a notable amount of weight.

Does anyone have specifics on the changes to the ram-air system?
I mean, for the right price I’ll fight a lion. - Mike Tyson
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: 772LR Gets ~ANOTHER~ Range/payload Boost

Thu Jul 15, 2004 4:38 am

Now, why the boost?

A better question would be "why not"?

...if they can increase the specifications with little added cost (both in terms of manufacturing as well as operation), then why not?



Is there a particular airline that is interested in purchasing a few LRs, but needed even more range?

EK's been bitching for more outta the 777NGs for a while now, but mostly they want the GE90 taken to 120-125K pounds of thrust.
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mlsrar
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RE: 772LR Gets ~ANOTHER~ Range/payload Boost

Thu Jul 15, 2004 4:41 am

What routes does EK plan on provisioning 772LRs for, should they buy them...or do they plan on displacing the 345s?
I mean, for the right price I’ll fight a lion. - Mike Tyson
 
transswede
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RE: 772LR Gets ~ANOTHER~ Range/payload Boost

Thu Jul 15, 2004 4:43 am

Is this new range increase due to a MTOW increase, a minor redesign, or somethign else? (since this applies to "latter units" of the 773ER)
 
flyf15
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RE: 772LR Gets ~ANOTHER~ Range/payload Boost

Thu Jul 15, 2004 4:44 am

Ah, very cool, second longest ranged aircraft in regular service right now.  Big thumbs up
 
DIA
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RE: 772LR Gets ~ANOTHER~ Range/payload Boost

Thu Jul 15, 2004 4:47 am

Trying to stay on the subject. . .

Where are all the fuel tanks located in these LRs? Got a diagram?

Do they use vertical stabilizer tanks in these?
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: 772LR Gets ~ANOTHER~ Range/payload Boost

Thu Jul 15, 2004 4:49 am

What routes does EK plan on provisioning 772LRs for, should they buy them...or do they plan on displacing the 345s?

They've never really shown all that much warmth to the model due to its pricing stipend and availability (3 years after A345)

...their interest has mostly been in getting a heavily uprated 773ER.





Ah, very cool, second longest ranged aircraft in regular service right now

...that would be the 772ER-- what's it got to do with any of this??
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mlsrar
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RE: 772LR Gets ~ANOTHER~ Range/payload Boost

Thu Jul 15, 2004 4:50 am

Is this new range increase due to a MTOW increase, a minor redesign, or somethign else? (since this applies to "latter units" of the 773ER)

According to BA, its a change to the vortex generators, the ram-air system, and interior enhancements that save weight.
I mean, for the right price I’ll fight a lion. - Mike Tyson
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: 772LR Gets ~ANOTHER~ Range/payload Boost

Thu Jul 15, 2004 4:51 am

Where are all the fuel tanks located in these LRs?

A better question would be "how many tanks are there?!"
Sometimes Boeing says 3, sometimes 2. Be nice if they'd clarify that.



Do they use vertical stabilizer tanks in these?

Dont think so, unless that's been added on the downlow
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jpetekyxmd80
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RE: 772LR Gets ~ANOTHER~ Range/payload Boost

Thu Jul 15, 2004 4:57 am

Hey ConcordeBoy,

Ah, very cool, second longest ranged aircraft in regular service right now

...that would be the 772ER-- what's it got to do with any of this??


Yet, the thread starter says:

773ER also gets a boost to 7,880nm range... giving later units greater reach than even the 772ER, which for a long time was also the longest ranged aircraft in commercial service.

So is the 773ER currently second?
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: 772LR Gets ~ANOTHER~ Range/payload Boost

Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:10 am

Ah, very cool, second longest ranged aircraft in regular service right now

773ER also gets a boost to 7,880nm range... giving later units greater reach than even the 772ER




....you tell me bub  Big grin
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Tasha
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RE: 772LR Gets ~ANOTHER~ Range/payload Boost

Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:18 am

People are not going to be happy about this....

in a certain town in Western Europe!!! *evil, maniacal laughter while crazily rubbing hands over the top of each other with thunder & lightning seen in the background out of the window in her mad scientist lab*  Acting devilish

Tasha  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
DIA
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RE: 772LR Gets ~ANOTHER~ Range/payload Boost

Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:18 am

Wow. Just a little reflection here. Remember the days when the longest range airliners were the 741/2, 747SP, DC-8-62,L1011-500, and the DC-10-30?

We've come a long way baby. . .and I'm not talkin' Virginia Slims. . .

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solnabo
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RE: 772LR Gets ~ANOTHER~ Range/payload Boost

Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:21 am

Dont think so!

The second is A345 (9000nm/16.600km). Lets see if LR promise the range!

Mike//SE  Big thumbs up
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ha763
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RE: 772LR Gets ~ANOTHER~ Range/payload Boost

Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:24 am

Where are all the fuel tanks located in these LRs? Got a diagram?

From what I can see, all the fuel is either in the wings or center fuel tank, plus up to 3 optional body tanks in the rear cargo hold for the -200LR. The body tanks hold 1850 gal of fuel and are the size of an LD-6 which reduces the capacity to 8 LD-3s instead of 14 LD-3s in the rear cargo hold. There is no fuel vent on the horizontal stablizer indicating that there is a fuel tank there.
 
Tasha
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RE: 772LR Gets ~ANOTHER~ Range/payload Boost

Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:25 am

Ohhh Solnabo....

Not only will it promise the range, the 772LR will shatter it's own range predictions. It will easily surpass the range of that four-engined thing!!! *buhahahahahahahahaha... more evil laughter, and perhaps someone isn't feeling so well in Northern Europe either  Big grin *  Acting devilish

Tasha  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
NW747400
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RE: 772LR Gets ~ANOTHER~ Range/payload Boost

Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:27 am

Hello all,
Just wondering if anybody knew the reason for the increase in range? Did a potential buyer want more range?? Any input would be appreciated!
NW747400
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: 772LR Gets ~ANOTHER~ Range/payload Boost

Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:30 am

...apparently, you missed reply #7  Big grin
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solnabo
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RE: 772LR Gets ~ANOTHER~ Range/payload Boost

Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:32 am

Tasha:
Are U the wicked witch from west bashing €urope?? You´re name sound Moldavish though!! *LOL* Did you had a bad hair day, or what?  Big grin

Mike  Big thumbs up
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NW747400
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RE: 772LR Gets ~ANOTHER~ Range/payload Boost

Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:33 am

Yes I did! Sorry about that, and thanks for the info!
NW747400
 
Tasha
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RE: 772LR Gets ~ANOTHER~ Range/payload Boost

Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:35 am

All joking aside (while pulling down the blinds in the mad scientist lab), I guess that Boeing wanted to have a selling point for the 772LR which surpasses it's close competitor A345.

Personally, I would be very interested in the payload restrictions for the aircraft when operating say: New York - Johannesburg or Washington - Tokyo, or any other extreme route like that.

I heard that Ethiopean flew ADD-EWR several times nonstop (usually they stop in Rome I think) with a B763ER - but had sever payload restrictions causing them to block almost 30% of the cabin.

Tasha  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
NW747400
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RE: 772LR Gets ~ANOTHER~ Range/payload Boost

Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:38 am

Yes I did! Sorry about that, and thanks for the info!
NW747400
 
flyf15
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RE: 772LR Gets ~ANOTHER~ Range/payload Boost

Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:39 am

Ah, I was referring to the 777-200LR as the 2nd longest ranged plane now. The first is still holding on to the number 1 slot....(drumroll)....the KC-10 (at 9990nm range).
 
Hamlet69
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RE: 772LR Gets ~ANOTHER~ Range/payload Boost

Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:43 am

For those getting confused, here is the current list of longest-ranged aircraft:

A340-500
777-300ER (with retrofit)
777-200ER
747-400ER
A340-600

And here is the list of planned, future developments:

777-200LR
A340-500
7E7-8
7E7-9
A380-800


"Is there a particular airline that is interested in purchasing a few LRs, but needed even more range?"

As ConcordeBoy has already mentioned, this applies to both the -200LR, and perhaps more importantly, the -300ER. The thing is, the extra efficiency need not be range, but payload. EK has been requesting better payload/range numbers from both the 777-300ER and A340-600HGW. My hunch is this increase is a direct result of that, and is closely tied to rumors that EK is poised to order more -300ERs soon.

"What routes does EK plan on provisioning 772LRs for, should they buy them...or do they plan on displacing the 345s?"

Again, AFAIK, EK is not looking at the -200LR at the moment, but more -300ERs.

"Do they use vertical stabilizer tanks in these?"

No. As one may have noticed, the 777 has a proportionately small vertical stabilizer compared to previous aircraft. There is not much room there for fuel,and the associated hoses and pumps necessary to put fuel there would probably add enough weight to negate any fuel capacity increase.

Regards,

Hamlet69
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solnabo
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RE: 772LR Gets ~ANOTHER~ Range/payload Boost

Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:46 am

Whats the prizetag for LR and prizetag for 345??

I guess there´s a gap of $$$$ between them!!! KC-10 is not a jetliner, dude  Laugh out loud

Mike//SE  Big thumbs up
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Tasha
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RE: 772LR Gets ~ANOTHER~ Range/payload Boost

Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:48 am

Flyf15,

I didn't know that about the KC10. You see them once in a while at GPT. I would imagine it has all kinds of payload restrictions to achieve such an enormous range; the F15 isn't exactly "short ranged itself - ala Mig-29".

Tasha  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
DIA
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RE: 772LR Gets ~ANOTHER~ Range/payload Boost

Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:48 am

Thanks for all the vertical stabilizer fuel tank answers all of you. I thought it might be a bit small, and more of a hassle for Boeing than anything else. . .just wondering.

Interesting on the "future list" that the 747 isn't even on it anymore!
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: 772LR Gets ~ANOTHER~ Range/payload Boost

Thu Jul 15, 2004 6:03 am

Interesting on the "future list" that the 747 isn't even on it anymore!

...assuming this 747-500/600/800/X/LR/Adv (or whatever it will be by that time) proposal actually comes to fruition-- it may.
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solnabo
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RE: 772LR Gets ~ANOTHER~ Range/payload Boost

Thu Jul 15, 2004 6:10 am

Tasha:

How intresting!! Tell me more how you of all people met Sven!! *yawn*

Mike//SE  Insane
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FoxBravo
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RE: 772LR Gets ~ANOTHER~ Range/payload Boost

Thu Jul 15, 2004 7:01 am

I don't think the KC-10's range is due to payload restrictions, but rather due to its enormous fuel capacity--which is typically used to refuel other aircraft, but can also be used to fuel its own engines.  Smile

Anyway, it's great news about the 772LR, but--and don't get me wrong, I think it's a terrific plane that is in many ways superior to the A345--I have to say it's pretty disappointing that we haven't seen more orders yet.
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
Ruscoe
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RE: 772LR Gets ~ANOTHER~ Range/payload Boost

Thu Jul 15, 2004 7:11 am

The really good thing about the latest range increase is that it is being obtained through improved aerodynamics and engine efficiency,as well as MTOW increase.

Will also be available to existing operators as a retrofit kit.

Some galley space is being moved to above passenger space thus increasing number of passengers.

Means more revenue, more range and less pollution.

Ruscoe
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: 772LR Gets ~ANOTHER~ Range/payload Boost

Thu Jul 15, 2004 7:46 am

Oh, almost forgot; here's the original:

The range of Boeing's Longer-Range 777 airplanes will increase due to a
new enhancement package that offers airlines engine-efficiency and
design improvements. The enhancements will become available on new and
retrofitted 777-300ER airplanes in late 2005. The airplane's maximum
range will increase by an additional 175 nautical miles, to 7,880
nautical miles (14,594 kilometers). Several of the enhancements will
also be applied to the 777-200LR airplane currently in development. With
a range capability of 9,420 nautical miles (17,446 kilometers), the
777-200LR will be the world's longest range commercial airplane. The
first 777-200LR is scheduled for delivery in 2006.
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cba
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RE: 772LR Gets ~ANOTHER~ Range/payload Boost

Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:24 am

It's not so much the extra range the carriers are looking for, it's the extra MTOW. A boost in range is essentially a boost in MTOW. So for an airline like EK, flying JFK-DXB, which is already within the 777-300ER's range, extra MTOW means that they can fill up the belly of the plane with more cargo then they could before.
 
Espion007
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RE: 772LR Gets ~ANOTHER~ Range/payload Boost

Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:36 am

hmm.I just wonder.When we are able to have planes with a range more than half of the earth's circumference-will there be a need to increase it?
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scottysair
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RE: 772LR Gets ~ANOTHER~ Range/payload Boost

Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:44 am

Are you still talking about with 777-200LR? It will good for increase more miles for nonstop around of the world. It will be good for plans service from LAX, MIA, JFK, & anywhere else with their cities out there.
 
md11dude
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RE: 772LR Gets ~ANOTHER~ Range/payload Boost

Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:46 am

Id fancy the YYZ-TPE route, but of course we all know AC doesnt do it Boeing style. With that Mtow creeping up youd think theyd give er a center main gear.....
Go 777 Go!
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: 772LR Gets ~ANOTHER~ Range/payload Boost

Thu Jul 15, 2004 10:05 am

With that Mtow creeping up youd think theyd give er a center main gear

...um, no ya wouldn't:
particularly if you realized that the entire point of its current gear configuration was the spare growth derivatives to waste of potential revenue space that a center main gear could cost.  Big grin

[Edited 2004-07-15 03:18:51]
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md11dude
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RE: 772LR Gets ~ANOTHER~ Range/payload Boost

Thu Jul 15, 2004 10:17 am

true enough, I did also realize a fuel capacity decrease as well..
CP979
 
Hamlet69
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RE: 772LR Gets ~ANOTHER~ Range/payload Boost

Thu Jul 15, 2004 10:48 am

"Whats the prizetag for LR and prizetag for 345??"

Boeing lists the 777-200LR between $190-215 million. Though Airbus does not publically disclose their list price, it is believed to be between $175-190 million for the A340-500.

"Interesting on the "future list" that the 747 isn't even on it anymore!"

As the 747-A is not a firm program at the moment, it is not listed. The only aircraft on that list were programs with the official go-ahead. However, should the Advanced 747 get to official launch stage, expect a range equaling or slightly better than the A388.


"The really good thing about the latest range increase is that it is being obtained through improved aerodynamics and engine efficiency,as well as MTOW increase."

In point of fact, this recent increase does not change the MTOW at all - which makes it all the more impressive. Apparently, through flight testing and early service, the GE90-115B is showing better-than-expected fuel burn rates. In addition, small design adjustments decrease wing drag, and interior weight reduction has resulted in a slightly lower OEW. All equal a more efficient aircraft.

"It's not so much the extra range the carriers are looking for, it's the extra MTOW."

Again, MTOW has not changed - it remains at 775,000 lbs. However, I understand your point. What is really being said here is that the payload/range curve has improved, which EK among others should be very happy with.


I'm also wondering how this announcement plays in with VS's upcoming decision. While I understand that it has basically come down to price, and they have recently been tipped to stick with the A340-600, could Boeing be offering this to sway them - or as a result of a condition to order. . .

Regards,

Hamlet69
All gave some. Some gave all.
 
ConcordeBoy
Topic Author
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RE: 772LR Gets ~ANOTHER~ Range/payload Boost

Thu Jul 15, 2004 11:03 am

which EK among others

..."others" being SQ  Big grin
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gigneil
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RE: 772LR Gets ~ANOTHER~ Range/payload Boost

Thu Jul 15, 2004 11:24 am

Washington - Tokyo, or any other extreme route like that.

Washington - Tokyo is not an extreme route. Its a reasonable longhaul. An A330-200 or 767-200ER could complete this route.

The second is A345 (9000nm/16.600km).

There are no A340-500s that can deliver 9000nm, nor am I aware of plans to build one. The current max range of the A340-500 is 8700nm.

N
 
ACAfan
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RE: 772LR Gets ~ANOTHER~ Range/payload Boost

Thu Jul 15, 2004 11:38 am

hmm.I just wonder.When we are able to have planes with a range more than half of the earth's circumference-will there be a need to increase it?

World is 25,000 miles around so that means 12,500 range should be the limit.
Freddie Laker ... May be at peace with his maker ... But he is a persona non grata ... with IATA
 
USAJPNflyer
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RE: 772LR Gets ~ANOTHER~ Range/payload Boost

Thu Jul 15, 2004 2:51 pm

ANA presently serves Washington Dulles (IAD) - Tokyo Narita (NRT) nonstop with a B777-200ER (daily) as NH001 (westbound) and NH002 (eastbound).
 
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solnabo
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RE: 772LR Gets ~ANOTHER~ Range/payload Boost

Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:42 pm

Gigneil:

"There are no A345 that can deliver 9000 nm"!!!!!!!

Please, go to Airbus website/ Press releases and read of SIA´s flight SIN-EWR.

Mike//SE  Laugh out loud
Airbus SAS - Love them both

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