Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
QANTAS747-438
Topic Author
Posts: 1739
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2001 7:01 am

Jetway Hits UA 777 At LAX - Damage Seen

Sat Jul 17, 2004 1:08 pm

Today at LAX, at gate 77, a jetway slammed into a United 777, tail 2983, causing a large dent in the fuselage below and to the left of the 2nd door (the one behind first class). Also, there were numerous scratches and the dirty outline of the jetway off center of the door. The pax were removed from the plane, and the flight to LHR was cancelled. The plane was then towed to the UA Maintence Hagar.

Could a moderate dent cause an aircraft to not be airworthy? It appeared to be about 5-6 inches long and a quarter-half an inch deep. And, what would UA do with this plane?
My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
 
SafetyDude
Posts: 3654
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2001 10:02 am

RE: Jetway Hits UA 777 At LAX - Damage Seen

Sat Jul 17, 2004 1:19 pm

My guess is that UAL wants to take safety measures and inspect the area and make sure that nothing else was damaged, as well as to fix the fuselage.

Also, think of how the media might handle the situation if the plane was not take out of service. The media would explode with something like "Damaged Plane Allowed to Fly", and, of course, there would be a post about it on this forum.  Big grin

-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 9307
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

RE: Jetway Hits UA 777 At LAX - Damage Seen

Sat Jul 17, 2004 1:23 pm

Man.. bad week for the UA 777 fleet! This is the second incident this week that will temporarily ground a 777. These type of mistakes (clipping other aircraft, hitting aircraft with jetbridges) seem like the things that happen when a crew isn't paying full attention. I've worked a repetitive job with heavy equipment, and I've experienced first-hand the effect of not paying attention. You just fade out and feel like a walking zombie before you snap out of it. Maybe UA should impose a curfew so these crews get pleanty of sleep  Big grin

Could a moderate dent cause an aircraft to not be airworthy? It appeared to be about 5-6 inches long and a quarter-half an inch deep. And, what would UA do with this plane?

Yeah it would take the aircraft out of service. I imagine it would only take an aluminum patch and buffeing, assuming no structural damage was done. Patches are designed to last for several thousand hours (to the next heavy maintenance) at which point a permanent fix is made. If nothing else is amiss, I'd expect the aircraft to be back in service by Monday.
I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
ckfred
Posts: 5189
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: Jetway Hits UA 777 At LAX - Damage Seen

Sat Jul 17, 2004 1:33 pm

A friend of mine is a 757/767 F/O with AA. Once at SFO, a baggage handler banged a 767 just under the bulk cargo hatch with a baggage loader. Both he and the captain felt the banging in the cockpit. The captain called for a mechanic while my friend hurried out onto the ramp to find out what happened and make his own assessment.

Luckily, there was no damage to the plane, but departure was delayed 30 minutes while the mechanics made a thorough inspection and checked to make sure that the aft cargo hatches would close and seal properly.

So, yes, it is a serious airworthiness issue.
 
ordpark
Posts: 646
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 3:20 pm

RE: Jetway Hits UA 777 At LAX - Damage Seen

Sat Jul 17, 2004 1:57 pm

If the 'hit' was as hard as you descibe, there may have been damaged stringers...
 
WesternDC1010
Posts: 309
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2003 9:29 am

RE: Jetway Hits UA 777 At LAX - Damage Seen

Sat Jul 17, 2004 4:11 pm

I'm assuming this happened to UA934?

- Ron
Western DC-10-10
Western Airlines - The Only Way To Fly
 
JBirdAV8r
Posts: 3468
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2001 4:44 am

RE: Jetway Hits UA 777 At LAX - Damage Seen

Sun Jul 18, 2004 2:02 am

seem like the things that happen when a crew isn't paying full attention

So it was the crew's fault the jetway ran amok (for whatever reason) and hit the aircraft? Obviously you aren't familiar with on-airport operations.

Also, your information is flawed. Most taxi accidents happen when linemen are guiding the aircraft and they fail to accurately judge the clearance between aircraft. Linemen are more often than not responsible for this.
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 9307
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

RE: Jetway Hits UA 777 At LAX - Damage Seen

Sun Jul 18, 2004 2:28 am

So it was the crew's fault the jetway ran amok (for whatever reason) and hit the aircraft?

I'm not refering to the pilot and first officer, I'm talking about the ground crew, everyone on the ground dealing with the parking, unloading, refueling, loading, and departure of an aircaft. When an aircraft is taken out of service becuase of some sort of mistake, then the ground crew was obviously not at their best.

I'm aware incidents of this sort happen all the time all over the world, but that doesn't make it any more acceptable. It's part of the enviornment, loud noise, repetivie actions, makes this type of accident easier than most people think.

Also, your information is flawed. Most taxi accidents happen when linemen are guiding the aircraft and they fail to accurately judge the clearance between aircraft. Linemen are more often than not responsible for this.

I don't recall placing the blame on any one individual, just a blanket statement that the 'crew' made an error. Someone obviously screwed up because aircraft typically try to avoid love-taping jetbridges on the way into a gate.
I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
GroundStop
Posts: 612
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2003 12:48 am

RE: Jetway Hits UA 777 At LAX - Damage Seen

Sun Jul 18, 2004 2:41 am

I can recall more than one time a 'runaway jetway' scenario. Every now and then, the throttle can stick. Sometimes, those things have a mind of their own. I'm sure they'll sort it out.

JP
 
*HighFlyah*
Posts: 168
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2000 4:27 pm

RE: Jetway Hits UA 777 At LAX - Damage Seen

Sun Jul 18, 2004 3:47 am

The flight was UA 934 LAX-LHR on Friday, July 16. This flight has not been cancelled, but has been rescheduled for 12:30pm departure local time on Saturday, July 17.
 
User avatar
vanguard737
Posts: 562
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2001 7:02 am

RE: Jetway Hits UA 777 At LAX - Damage Seen

Sun Jul 18, 2004 4:44 am

First of all Qantas, a jetway cannot "slam" into a plane, they go 2 miles an hour tops....so. And yes any dent or aircraft damage will take an aircraft out of service, at least thats how we do it at ATA! (34 years flying with no fatalities Smile/happy/getting dizzy )
d
Adios,
Vanguard
319 320 321 330 346 359 717 722 732 733 735 73G 738 739 744 748 752 753 763 764 772 773 788 789 781 DC9 DC10 MD80 B1900 S340 E120 E145 E170 E175 CRJ CR7 TRIM
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: Jetway Hits UA 777 At LAX - Damage Seen

Sun Jul 18, 2004 6:13 am

>>>Could a moderate dent cause an aircraft to not be airworthy? It appeared to be about 5-6 inches long and a quarter-half an inch deep. And, what would UA do with this plane?

It depends. I'll leave it to the AMTs here to cite chapter and verse, but generally speaking, if the metal is torn through, or rivets are popped, or stringers are busted, the aircraft is out of service until it gets repaired.

If such major damage occurs at an airport where the airline doesn't have its own MX personnel, it's quite common for the airline to ferry the aircraft to a location where repairs can be made. This is done under a maintenance ferry permit, which means no passengers or (usally) no FAs aboard. In the case of fuselage damage, that also means the maintenance ferry flight is operated unpressurized, which can man some long flights at 9,000 or 10,000 feet enroute to the MX base.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
LMP737
Posts: 6156
Joined: Wed May 08, 2002 4:06 pm

RE: Jetway Hits UA 777 At LAX - Damage Seen

Sun Jul 18, 2004 6:30 am

If UAL does have to do repairs there at LAX they will have to borrow a hanger from another hanger. Suprisingly enough UA does not have one that is big enough to put a 777 in. AA, Fed Ex and Continental do.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
ua777222
Posts: 2987
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 11:23 am

RE: Jetway Hits UA 777 At LAX - Damage Seen

Sun Jul 18, 2004 6:50 am

Would they just do a temp fix and then move the a/c up to say SFO where they have the facilities to do proper work by their people and do the proper checks?

UA777222
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
N243NW
Posts: 1599
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2003 4:29 am

RE: Jetway Hits UA 777 At LAX - Damage Seen

Sun Jul 18, 2004 8:06 am

First of all Qantas, a jetway cannot "slam" into a plane, they go 2 miles an hour tops....so.

One ramp rat's response from the Tech/Ops forum a few days ago:
Q: have you ever burned out a belt loader? / A: nope, but Airport Security gave me a speeding ticket for doing 85km/h down the ramp on one

Yes, they can go faster than 2.
-N243NW
B-52s don't take off. They scare the ground away.
 
ua777222
Posts: 2987
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 11:23 am

RE: Jetway Hits UA 777 At LAX - Damage Seen

Sun Jul 18, 2004 8:16 am

I think they were referring to the arm of the gate. But that's funny that someone would actually go that fast!

UA777222
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: Jetway Hits UA 777 At LAX - Damage Seen

Sun Jul 18, 2004 9:44 am

>>>Would they just do a temp fix and then move the a/c up to say SFO where they have the facilities to do proper work by their people and do the proper checks

IF UAL doesn't have the necessary staff/parts/resources there at LAX, sending it LAX-SFO as an inpressurized maintenance ferry at 10,000 feet would certainly be an option. They still have their big MX base up there, right?
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
ua777222
Posts: 2987
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 11:23 am

RE: Jetway Hits UA 777 At LAX - Damage Seen

Sun Jul 18, 2004 10:37 am

It might just be safer to have the stuff that is needed to fix the a/c sent to LAX. Yes that is surprising that they don't have the facilities in LAX for a 777.

UA777222
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
LineMechQX
Posts: 76
Joined: Wed May 12, 2004 6:02 pm

RE: Jetway Hits UA 777 At LAX - Damage Seen

Sun Jul 18, 2004 11:49 am

Any damage to an aircraft has to be addressed. Any dent, scratch, or even paint missing must be addressed. These are pressurized semi-monocoque(spelling) aircraft they rely 100% on the skin to keep them in one piece. I don't know specific 777 SRM limits, but on our aircraft anything over around .050 deep (just a general estimation) requires repair. Anything less can be placed on a "yellow dot" program after being mapped, sent to engineering and checked for cracks. Anything that goes through a stringer or is near a window or door, always requires patching. I would say the length alone, would guarantee the damage went through a stringer or two. Not to mention the depth.

Late
PC
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: Jetway Hits UA 777 At LAX - Damage Seen

Sun Jul 18, 2004 12:30 pm

>>>It might just be safer to have the stuff that is needed to fix the a/c sent to LAX.

The -safest- thing would be to never let any aircraft out of its hanger. If they'd wanted to have ferried it unpressurized LAX-SFO (again, without passengers) there would have been nothing inherently "unsafe" about it.

A short hop LAX-SFO is no big deal...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
Guest

RE: Jetway Hits UA 777 At LAX - Damage Seen

Sun Jul 18, 2004 1:19 pm

Actually you'd be surprised how hard you can actually ram a plane with a bridge, unless you've actually operated one. They may not go too fast, but they are preety powerful. I've seen a whole punched in a 737-800 with one.
 
StarGoldLHR
Posts: 1346
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 1:29 am

RE: Jetway Hits UA 777 At LAX - Damage Seen

Mon Jul 19, 2004 4:03 am

This was the same aircraft in the Yellowknife landing incident in March this year when they had to land with a failed engine.
There was a post on this forum, and I saw it 3 days later leaving to Incheon from SFO complete with new engine.

Unlucky this A/C
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
 
squirrel83
Posts: 1218
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 12:28 pm

RE: Jetway Hits UA 777 At LAX - Damage Seen

Mon Jul 19, 2004 4:08 am

Pictures Pictures, Pictures . . . . ???
A346, 7E7, 747, 777, Sonic Cruiser
 
EMBQA
Posts: 7858
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:52 am

RE: Jetway Hits UA 777 At LAX - Damage Seen

Mon Jul 19, 2004 4:17 am

Jetway accidents are quite common. We worked on a 'BRAND NEW' Emb-145 that was damaged when a Jetway malfunctioned and drove the sensor bar clean through the fuselage. If I recall, the jet was only a few days old when the accident occurred. Due to the close proximity to the static ports, we had to reskin the entire damaged panel due to RVSM.

[Edited 2004-07-18 21:23:24]
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos