Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
GLAGAZ
Topic Author
Posts: 1844
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2004 5:42 am

BA Plan To Buy Aer Lingus

Mon Jul 19, 2004 7:23 am

Taken from a thread on PPrune.

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=27d2008c556f2850d7042dfe07ddf5c1&threadid=138039

This would be a bold move if true. With Aer Lingus operating the A330 and about to order more long haul aircraft.

Personally I wouldn't like to see it happen as I like every UK country to have its own relativly big airline.
Neutrality means that u don't really care cos the struggle goes on even when ur not there, blind and unaware
 
A340600
Posts: 3898
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 10:24 pm

RE: BA Plan To Buy Aer Lingus

Mon Jul 19, 2004 7:30 am

Hope it doesn't happen, though i've heard Aer Lingus aren't the best of airlines. I wish BA would swing airbus sometimes but i do love those 777s up close

Cheers

Sam Big thumbs up
Despite the name I am a Boeing man through and through!
 
BAxMAN
Posts: 655
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 7:51 am

RE: BA Plan To Buy Aer Lingus

Mon Jul 19, 2004 7:36 am

"Personally I wouldn't like to see it happen as I like every UK country to have its own relativly big airline"

Oooh GAZ!

The people of Eire would NOT like to be referred to as a UK country!

But whatever happens with Aer Lingus, I hope that Ryanair do not get their hands on it. It would be a shame for Ireland if it's flag carrier became a cheapo, yob filled cattle herder.
Mild green Fairy liquid
 
Eirules
Posts: 2003
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:17 am

RE: BA Plan To Buy Aer Lingus

Mon Jul 19, 2004 8:33 am

As a person from Eire no I dont think much of that UK comment. But i shall ignore it and say no way. BA would end up directing most of the EI transatlantic traffic through LHR . EI must be privitised and BA could perhaps buy a share of it but not outright. Absolute no

[Edited 2004-07-19 02:03:28]
The way you cut your meat reflects the way you live....
 
foxtrotyankee
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 12:52 am

RE: BA Plan To Buy Aer Lingus

Mon Jul 19, 2004 8:42 am

"Personally I wouldn't like to see it happen as I like every UK country to have its own relativly big airline."

That's just ignorance really. To refer to the Republic of Ireland as part of the UK is wrong in so many ways.

You have two excuses:
1) You never went to school
2) You went to school in 1910
--------------------------------------------------

Back on topic, I do agree with EIRules in that EI should be privitised but I don't see the problem with BA having a large stake in it. They wouldn't put everything through LHR... it's busy enough as it is.
 
BAxMAN
Posts: 655
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 7:51 am

RE: BA Plan To Buy Aer Lingus

Mon Jul 19, 2004 9:12 am

There seems to be a lot of worry from KLM that they are going to be a very little brother in the KLM/Air France merger. The same would undoubtedly happen if BA became the main investor in EI.

My main gripe about BA is that with myself being based in MAN, we are totally reliant on going to LHR for flights to 90% of BA destinations, even though I believe cities like MAN, GLA, BHX could comfortably support more routes of their own. Although DUB would always retain a large amount of of it's route network, I think BA would instinctively try and shift a lot of them in the LHR direction.
Mild green Fairy liquid
 
Eirules
Posts: 2003
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:17 am

RE: BA Plan To Buy Aer Lingus

Mon Jul 19, 2004 9:18 am

I agree with BAxMAN. It is almost beyond question that BA would shift a number of flights to LHR as it would generally lower their costs. I didnt agree with the KLM/AF link up and i dont agree with this either. I know that greater co-operation within the EU is desired but I still believe that each country should have a national airline or at least one who's interests are purely in that country. Ireland would never win in a fight with BA heathrow
The way you cut your meat reflects the way you live....
 
planespotting
Posts: 3026
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 4:54 am

RE: BA Plan To Buy Aer Lingus

Mon Jul 19, 2004 9:18 am

yeah come on man.

Republic of Ireland : Independant country, part of Europe, member of the EU, currency: the Euro

UK: made up of England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland. part of Europe, finicky member of the EU, currency: the British Pound.

EI should remane it's own airline. perhaps some changes need to be made, but not being bought out by BA.
Do you like movies about gladiators?
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15619
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: BA Plan To Buy Aer Lingus

Mon Jul 19, 2004 10:25 am

While it would be sad for EI to become bought out by BA, the pratical matter is that relatively small, government/partially government owned airlines are quickly becoming something of the past. I would also wonder about the affects on flights between the USA and Rep. of Ireland, within the context of current flight agreements. Would there finally be elimination of the manditory Shannon stop for US and other services? Would there elimination of some USA direct flights, causing more to go via LHR or other UK airports? Would (discount) fares go down? There is also the emotional issue of a national airline becoming part of an airline that is of a country that occupied your country (and still part of it - Northern Ireland  Big grin )
 
User avatar
yyz717
Posts: 15779
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: BA Plan To Buy Aer Lingus

Mon Jul 19, 2004 10:31 am

All the Irish nationalist sentiment is nonsense. EI is an inefficient govt-owned carrier for a small 3M population country. That Ireland still has a national carrier is arguably an anachronism anyway.

If BA chooses to buy EI, it will be based on economics only. There is no room for national pride in the airline industry. Especially so in Ireland.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
747firstclass
Posts: 821
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 2:45 pm

RE: BA Plan To Buy Aer Lingus

Mon Jul 19, 2004 10:44 am

Ltbewr,
i have no idea if these rumors are true and if so, if anything will ever come of it. I am quite certain that if BA did buy them, the US would have a strong say so as routes from Ireland would be affected.
I am quite sure that for the US to approve any such merger that the SNN requirement would have to be dropped pronto.
Also the US would require an openskies with LHR and the UK.
It could possibly be that with the additional slots at LHR
that BA would gain as a result of the purchase a tiny bit of breathing room as a result of having DUB that there would be more access at LHR for US carriers.
Now having said all this, I doubt very, very seriously if anything will come of BA buying EI. I just dont see it.
 
whitehatter
Posts: 5180
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 6:52 am

RE: BA Plan To Buy Aer Lingus

Mon Jul 19, 2004 11:51 am

A British Airways buyout of EI could cause havoc with bilateral agreements that the Irish Government has with the USA.

I for one wouldn't like to see EI bought out and dominated by anyone else in the industry. Ireland needs its own airline. I'd predict a management buyout or one led by an Irish concern such as GPA would win the favoured bidder status from the Irish government.

There is plenty of local financing that could be called on to buy it. It doesn't necessarily have to be what would be a foreign investor.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
User avatar
yyz717
Posts: 15779
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: BA Plan To Buy Aer Lingus

Mon Jul 19, 2004 12:35 pm

Ireland needs its own airline.

Why?

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15079
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: BA Plan To Buy Aer Lingus

Mon Jul 19, 2004 5:00 pm

This possibility came up in a thread about a month ago - I think its a great idea. Ireland cannot support a significant international airline for its own market alone - its just not a big enough country. BA could use EI as a sort of low-cost transatlantic provider for North West Europe and the UK regions, meaning that they can save precious LHR seats for LHR O&D pax, and route MAN/BHX/NCL/GLA/EDI et al pax via DUB to big US destinations like ORD,NYC,BOS and LAX - even MIA or MCO, come to that. Opens up a great alternate and lower cost routing for transatlantic pax, bypassing LHR completely.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
GLAGAZ
Topic Author
Posts: 1844
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2004 5:42 am

RE: BA Plan To Buy Aer Lingus

Mon Jul 19, 2004 7:28 pm

"Personally I wouldn't like to see it happen as I like every UK country to have its own relativly big airline"

Meaning, I like more competition within the UK for flights to Eire. With Aer Lingus operating from Eire to the UK you get a better choice, but if BA buy them you are left with a handful of carriers operating to Eire.

Especially at GLA with only Aer Lingus opeating to Dublin. Would prefer it if BA competed with them on the route.


-Sorry if anyone was offended-
Neutrality means that u don't really care cos the struggle goes on even when ur not there, blind and unaware
 
FinnWings
Posts: 633
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 6:03 am

RE: BA Plan To Buy Aer Lingus

Mon Jul 19, 2004 7:54 pm

Ireland needs its own airline.

I agree with this... If BA will buy EI they will scale down operations and terminate most likely some routes as well. EI will be more a feeder to UK and non-stop flights from Ireland will decrease. The biggest losers in this case would be Irish people. Just look like a SAS for example... There is less non-stop flights from ARN and OSL to abroad than from Helsinki even HEL is smaller airport. Why? Because we have national airline Finnair here and Denmark/Sweden/Norway have tri-national airline which is feeding via CPH. This will luckily change in the future as SAS will be splitted, which is good for Swedes and Norwegians.

EI has better future without BA... Smaller airlines aren't past like some might think. Smaller airlines have special market to serve and they are often more competitive than bigger ones if those are well managed. They can quickly react to market changes and streamline all operations better. EI has geographical advantage to BA on trans-atlantic routes so I don't see any reason why DUB couldn't compete against totally over crowded LHR.

Independent countries DEFINITELY needs strong own airline and those airlines can be profitable and successfull very well. Other debate is should they be government owned or not...

Best Regards,
FinnWings
 
donder10
Posts: 6945
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:29 am

RE: BA Plan To Buy Aer Lingus

Mon Jul 19, 2004 7:58 pm

Ireland needs its own airline.

Why?


I agree and it's called Ryanair.If BA were to take EI over they wouldn't close the transatlantic routes or many others but there could be potential economies of scales gained by both airlines.BA could close the MAN-JFK route and feed the traffic through DUB for a start.
 
rwylie77
Posts: 322
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 6:11 pm

RE: BA Plan To Buy Aer Lingus

Mon Jul 19, 2004 8:34 pm

BA do not compete against EI anyway - BA sell EI tickets already over their website, and flights from LHR to DUB are always the same fare on BA and EI. Eventually all the One World airlines will become one.
 
wgw2707
Posts: 1113
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 10:37 am

RE: BA Plan To Buy Aer Lingus

Mon Jul 19, 2004 9:16 pm

I think if BA is interested in EI the wisest course of action would be to acquire an equity stake, not majority control or whole ownership. This would be similiar to BA's relationship with QANTAS. British Airways could then develop Aer Lingus as a low-cost subsidiary perhaps.

However, I doubt any takeover of Aer Lingus from British Airways would go over well with decidedly anglophobic nature of many Irish citizens.  Laugh out loud

-WGW2707
 
trident2e
Posts: 1286
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2003 3:38 am

RE: BA Plan To Buy Aer Lingus

Mon Jul 19, 2004 9:19 pm

As usual on this forum, rumors are turned into fact and before we know it Ireland no longer has its own airline. The fact of the matter is that a number of interested parties are talking to the Irish Government about the sale of EI - amongst these are the current management and a group led by the carrier's pilots. BA, if this story is true, is just one of these groups so let's keep things in perspective.
 
StarGoldLHR
Posts: 1346
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 1:29 am

RE: BA Plan To Buy Aer Lingus

Mon Jul 19, 2004 11:04 pm

Lufthansa should put a bid in...

then Lufthansa can merge BMI and EI and take on the world.
Then BMI can dupe people with new seat class names "Paddy Class" and "Colony Class".  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

I know I just annoyed 3m drunks with my statement but i mean it in the best of ways  Wink/being sarcastic

Really Aer Lingus should compete for more business in the UK market, they could get in quite quick as every one loves the irish. Dont you clear US CUstoms in Ireland and arrive domesitcally in the US ???
What a selling point.. save 45mins at JFK !

EI / BMI merger with Hubs in MAN and DUB life's grand !!!



So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
 
Eirules
Posts: 2003
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:17 am

RE: BA Plan To Buy Aer Lingus

Mon Jul 19, 2004 11:47 pm

I agree with some of what StarGoldLHR says, though Im not sure about the 3m drunks comment, but I shall let it pass!!!

I remember suggesting a few weeks ago about an EI-BD tie up and I was shot down in flames so Im saying nothing more on that subject. But it is true that you clear US customs in DUB (or indeed SNN if you want to go that way!). EI should be promoting that, especially in the UK regions which often have to connect in LHR anyway.
The way you cut your meat reflects the way you live....
 
snnams
Posts: 279
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2004 9:51 am

RE: BA Plan To Buy Aer Lingus

Tue Jul 20, 2004 12:09 am

"EI is an inefficient govt-owned carrier for a small 3M population country. That Ireland still has a national carrier is arguably an anachronism anyway."

um... sorry dude.. but it's a damn sight more efficient than BA and the stats are there to prove it: perhaps you've missed out on the transformation of the airline over the last while? And it's not Irish nationalist sentiment either, it's fact! What is also not Irish nationalistic sentiment is a fear of the airline that links us to so many foreign markets being subsumed into a larger entity which will merely use it to feed it's own larger hub.

Personally, i would have no objection to BA buying EI if I thought that things would remain as they are with EI, but I genuinly dont believe that would be the case. An Island DOES need a carrier that is home based and I would not be in favour of seeing all the good work done in terms of new routes undone by a BA takeover. It's like when they bought out citiflyer.. half their routes became unprofitable over night when BA management and costs came into the equation.

Again, I am not looking at this from some crappy outdated "flag carrier" mindset. rather i'm looking at from a "what's best for Ireland and Aerlingus" mindset. Ireland is not Canada my friend... there is water between us and the rest of the world!


Also, before anyone goes off accusing all us Irish of being "anglophobes", perhaps they would like to consider the very changed nature of relations between Ireland and the UK these days. I am very much an Irishman, but that doesnt make me a hater of anything or anyone British. I think you will find most of here are the same these days.

[Edited 2004-07-19 17:11:57]

And StargoldLHR, I know it was only a joke mate, but could we please leave the drunken stereotypes out of the discussion?  Wink/being sarcastic cheers!

[Edited 2004-07-19 17:13:41]
 
Eirules
Posts: 2003
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:17 am

RE: BA Plan To Buy Aer Lingus

Tue Jul 20, 2004 12:12 am

Strong words indeed, though I agree with your general point Snnams
The way you cut your meat reflects the way you live....
 
snnams
Posts: 279
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2004 9:51 am

RE: BA Plan To Buy Aer Lingus

Tue Jul 20, 2004 12:18 am

EIrules,

strong I know, and I wish to make clear again that if the EI/BA thing makes sense, then I have no objection. Indeed, it may well prove that EI being part of such a well respected and quality airline as BA makes sense! But it needs to be clarified what exactly will happen.

This is business, not nationalism and I think a few posters here need to realise that before they go accusing us of racism. Sorry, but the comments of some on here have made my blood boil!

The drunken paddies dont want BA taking over EI.... hell it must be because they dont like the brits!! GROW UP GUYS!!! no one here heard of the peace process???


Rant over..  Wink/being sarcastic

[Edited 2004-07-19 17:21:45]
 
babybus
Posts: 2379
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2003 5:07 am

RE: BA Plan To Buy Aer Lingus

Tue Jul 20, 2004 12:47 am

I'm waiting for the news : "Lufthansa buys British Airways". That can't be too far off.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15079
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: BA Plan To Buy Aer Lingus

Tue Jul 20, 2004 1:10 am

I'm waiting for the news : "Lufthansa buys British Airways". That can't be too far off.

Hehe - don't mention the war !! The Sun / Daily Mail et all will go MENTAL !
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
bazzaldonbond
Posts: 93
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2001 8:56 pm

RE: BA Plan To Buy Aer Lingus

Tue Jul 20, 2004 2:00 am

Please can we get on topic and stop SLAGGING the Irish off !!!!

[Edited 2004-07-19 19:23:11]
 
kaitak
Posts: 10042
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

RE: BA Plan To Buy Aer Lingus

Tue Jul 20, 2004 2:21 am

Okay, let's get away from the nationalism. I'm opposed to BA taking anything more than a small stake in EI because I have my suspicions as to why BA has an interest in the airline. I strongly suspect BA has its eye on EI's slots and over and above that, what can BA actually bring to Aer Lingus? Investment. Why should it want to invest in another airline when it should be investing its cash in dealing with the competition from other airlines. And what would happen if there were another downturn? Would be invest to prop up EI (should it need it!); no, it would look after No1.

My big concern is that BA can't actually bring anything to EI and consequently its influence on EI is unlikely to be positive. EI, for example, feeds a lot of traffic into BA at LHR. With EI's stated plans to expand east and to develop lower cost t/a routes, EI may well be perceived as a threat by BA.

The two airlines work together in oneworld, so what else does BA actually want from EI?
 
bar032
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 4:41 am

RE: BA Plan To Buy Aer Lingus

Tue Jul 20, 2004 4:37 am

The idea that each country in Europe must have its own airline is just non-logical and economically impractical.
I think we are gonna see a lot more of the Air France-KLM type of mergers in Europe in the not so distant future. It is the best solution for everybody in the long run. The airline market needs more efficiency and less nationalistically derived organisational structures.

Cheers
Aviate, Navigate, Communicate
 
airways6max
Posts: 474
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 6:22 am

RE: BA Plan To Buy Aer Lingus

Tue Jul 20, 2004 4:39 am

I don't expect it to happen. After being under the British thumb for 700 years, the Irish will never go for selling their airline to the British. They'll allow a hostile takeover by a US carrier before they let the British come in.
 
FinnWings
Posts: 633
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 6:03 am

RE: BA Plan To Buy Aer Lingus

Tue Jul 20, 2004 5:10 am

I think we are gonna see a lot more of the Air France-KLM type of mergers in Europe in the not so distant future. It is the best solution for everybody in the long run. The airline market needs more efficiency and less nationalistically derived organisational structures.

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree... You are right when saying that industry needs more effiency, but the effiency isn't achieved by mergers. Big airlines are very inefficient... Nowadays an airline must be quick to react market changes and streamline their operations to necessary levels very fast. The biggest winners of the current downturn and dropping yields have been smaller airlines who have quickly responsed for the new demands of market. Very big airlines don't never achieve this effiency and therefore those will never dominate the market either. Especially mergers of big airlines are bad, because those will complicate operations, management and make the whole organization sluggish.

Best Regards,
FinnWings
 
flying lsd
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2001 1:30 am

RE: BA Plan To Buy Aer Lingus

Tue Jul 20, 2004 5:18 am

and maybe the next step is SNBA and Brussels for BA
 
greenjet
Posts: 875
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2001 9:59 pm

RE: BA Plan To Buy Aer Lingus

Tue Jul 20, 2004 5:36 am

EI is an inefficient govt-owned carrier for a small 3M population country.

The populations in the Republic now exceeds 4 million. It may not be a huge population but just under 20 million passengers pass through Irish airports each year. Quite a significant number.

If you look at every European aviation nation there is a national carrier. It's a national symbol. I'm sure though it's only a matter of time before we see a lot more consolidation in Europe, particularly with continuing EU integration.

So if BA did purchase Aer Lingus then they would join AF in owning an Irish airline. So who wants to buy Ryanair and Aer Arann?  Smile
 
whitehatter
Posts: 5180
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 6:52 am

RE: BA Plan To Buy Aer Lingus

Tue Jul 20, 2004 5:57 am

The issue here is not so much whether BA should own EI, but what BA would do with it if they did.

The Irish Republic needs its own distinct carrier with a reasonable network of routes, offering passenger and (importantly) freight links internationally. Gutting EI and turning it into Cityflyer Ireland is not the way to go about managing a carrier serving an important business destination and general population. Watch the business they have at the moment walk over to the CO, DL and EK counters at Dublin should that happen.

Ryanair...that is actually part US owned anyway. Look who is the Chairman of Ryanair, and where he also sits on the board (clue: it's NOT O'Leary). However it was not turned into a feeder operation for Continental (oops...another clue) which is what would happen to Air Fungus if BA got a grip of it.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
User avatar
FlyCaledonian
Posts: 1993
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 6:18 am

RE: BA Plan To Buy Aer Lingus

Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:43 am

Good to see so many of my fellow Europeans recognising that Europe's carriers need to come together to take on the world. 25 member states in the EU, 25 flag carriers, plus the independents. Hey, why compete with the world when we can compete with each other? Why is it considered an essential part of nationhood to have a "national" airline? Answers on a postcard.
Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
snnams
Posts: 279
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2004 9:51 am

RE: BA Plan To Buy Aer Lingus

Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:54 am

Obviously many here have missed the contributions of the Irish posters, none of whom have alluded to anything even remotely resembling some crazed nationalistic "no way EI/BA"...

Put simply, the vast majority of us here don't give a toss who buys EI as long as said carrier does not simply a) use EI's slots at it's home airport for itself b) close down large parts of EI's newly expanded network to feed it's own hub, thereby cutting us off from the world again. That goes for BA, LH, AF.. whoever.. them being British has absolutely nothing to do with it. Sure, there are some here who would have the idea that we should not sell EI to the British, but they are very much in the minority I would say! Our two countries enjoy quite a good relationship these days I feel, and we've all moved from the bad old days. And to those from other parts of the world who dont believe me, well... you dont live here, so you dont know!  Wink/being sarcastic

As for not seeing the shamrock on the planes anymore, we all know Willie Walsh will replace it with a big red dot some day soon, so it's really not an issue..  Wink/being sarcastic

To try to bring some balance to this thread (and i'm noting here that it was contributors from outside Ireland who first mentioned nationalistic sentiment and "bad feeling" towards the UK.. something in that perhaps guys??) lets look at the pro's and con's of a BA/EI tie up from EI's point of view

Pros;
1) BA develop EI's transatlantic network in order to hub UK regional traffic through Dublin as an alternative to Heathrow, thus alleviating the congestion at the latter
2) BA utilise EI's lower cost base to open new routes Ex UK that would perhaps not be profitable given BA's higher costs.
3) Economies of scale are achieved in aircraft aquisition, ground handling etc (though, the benefits to a huge airline like BA are questionable)

Cons

1) BA does a "citiflyer" and renders most of EI's network unprofitable due higher cost base and management structure
2) BA uses EI purely for it's slots at Heathrow, winding the carrier down and cherry picking it's best routes ex DUB while hubbing the rest at LHR. Access to Ireland now greatly disadvantaged.
3) BA uses EI as a "low cost engine" initially, but does a "go" and sells it to another low cost airline

There's 3 points from each side to start the ball rolling, so that perhaps we can have a proper conversation without need of recourse to slagging off the paddies, and dragging any more outdated stereotypes out into what could be quite an imformative thread.

Now, for my final point (I know i've dragged on perhaps bored some of you to tears... Wink/being sarcastic many have made the point that AF/KL style mergers are the way to go. I agree, but there of course will be exceptions to that rule. Does an island with a low population, but an economy heavily dependant on the outside world and foreign markets qualify as an exception?
Another point, AF/KL was more a merger of equals in terms of size of the airlines. EI/BA would certainly not be. Those kind of mergers do not have such a good track record for the smaller partner as BA's own aquisitions prove, but perhaps this one could be different? Let the debate begin... (and no more drunken crazed paddy crap, please!)
 
boysteve
Posts: 890
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 7:02 am

RE: BA Plan To Buy Aer Lingus

Tue Jul 20, 2004 8:01 am

Personally I don't mind if BA have a stake in EI but not overall control.
I live in Manchester and many of my friends live around London, when we've been on holiday it's always an argument about where we should fly from.
EI is great when visiting America as we can all fly from local UK airports and meet in DUB, also clearing the sour-faced US immigration in DUB is great!
I hope EI expand there US operations and not 'downsize' as they would inevitably do following a BA takeover
 
whitehatter
Posts: 5180
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 6:52 am

RE: BA Plan To Buy Aer Lingus

Tue Jul 20, 2004 8:03 am

Snnams

Excellent analysis, and just what I feel are the pitfalls of a BA/EI merger.

Hopefully another player will come along and ensure that EI isn't relegated to a feeder service. The management buyout would be the best option for both EI and Ireland's economy.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
snnams
Posts: 279
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2004 9:51 am

RE: BA Plan To Buy Aer Lingus

Tue Jul 20, 2004 8:09 am

Whitehatter,

Thanks for the compliment mate! It's also interesting to note that Irish and British contributors have gotten on very well on this thread, when all the posters from outside these Islands seem to think we are still at each other's throats!  Wink/being sarcastic
 
donder10
Posts: 6945
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:29 am

RE: BA Plan To Buy Aer Lingus

Tue Jul 20, 2004 8:24 am

Thanks for the compliment mate! It's also interesting to note that Irish and British contributors have gotten on very well on this thread, when all the posters from outside these Islands seem to think we are still at each other's throats!

A relatively recent survey in Ireland showed that around 70%(from memory)of Ireland have a favourable impression of the British and the same figure roughly vice-versa.I'm sure Ireland progressing from essentially an agricultural-based economic basketcase to an international competitive and thriving economy(higher PCI than Britain)has played a major factor.I wish someone from Ireland would pick up one of the new major posts at the EU dealing with economic affairs!


If BA were to take them over it would have been done a la KL/AF at this point in time-still run as 2 autonomous airlines to a large extent but pooling resources in certain areas(eg AF closing Jakarta and KL Caracas).Another potential route that EI may be more suited to run than BA is to BWI.
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15079
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: BA Plan To Buy Aer Lingus

Wed Jul 21, 2004 5:10 am

I hope BA buys EI just so they can get rid of the crappy ASTRAL Res system and move to something powered by electricity instead of coal !

Seriously, BA's economies of scale will help EI - joint systems, joint sales and marketing operations, joint FF program (especially after EI gutted theirs). EI need to get off this LCC kick they're on, or submerge themselves completely in it, forget longhaul completely and just operate their red dots once a day to 10 large cities in Europe until Ryanair sees them off for good. EI as it exists now, cannot last.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
carduelis
Posts: 1388
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2001 8:24 pm

RE: BA Plan To Buy Aer Lingus

Wed Jul 21, 2004 6:13 am

I've mentioned it on another thread, but at today's AGM of British Airways, both Rod Eddington and Sir Colin Marshall specifically said the BA are not planning to buy Aer Lingus. BA's prime financial commitment is to reduce it's debt, not to add to it!

Likewise, apart from the Shorthaul A321s starting to arrive in October, there are currently no plans to increase the all Boeing Longhaul fleet, as overall it is still quite young!




[Edited 2004-07-20 23:20:48]
Per Ardua ad Astra! ........ Honi Soit Qui Mal y Pense!
 
snnams
Posts: 279
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2004 9:51 am

RE: BA Plan To Buy Aer Lingus

Wed Jul 21, 2004 8:09 am

JGPH1A,

My, you're seriously bitter against EI for some reason my friend! You have a point about economies of scale from EI perspective that might arise from a BA takeover, but I'm sorry to tell you that EI's formula is working! As for FR finally killing Aerlingus off, I doubt it! There are plenty of us in Ireland who are sick and tired of the O'leary formula and are prepared to pay a little extra (actually in my case, EI have been consistenly cheaper as I dont have the luxury of being able to book two months in advance) to fly into central airports and not get the relentless sales pitch. Nothing against Ryanair, but there are many here who feel like this, and we're voting with our feet...

The formula works.. if you dont like it,fine: Your opinion remaisn respected because I know you are not alone in thinking it, but there are a very many of us who may have liked the free meals, FF programme etc, but are happier to be getting lower fares and a much wider choice of destinations, direct from Ireland.

Please also tell us why EI cant operate a lower cost shorthaul product and not do long haul too? Where is the proof that this cant work? Maybe some out of the box thinking is exactly what this industry needs, and with Willie Walsh winning awards all over the place for his skills at EI, perhaps many in this industry are seeing the merits of what he is doing.

[Edited 2004-07-21 01:20:52]
 
AF-A319
Posts: 567
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 1999 3:18 am

RE: BA Plan To Buy Aer Lingus

Wed Jul 21, 2004 8:27 am

JGPH1A,

Should I understand from your comments that BA should also purchase SN as well as we're still using the venerable PARS system?  Wink/being sarcastic
 
whitehatter
Posts: 5180
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 6:52 am

RE: BA Plan To Buy Aer Lingus

Wed Jul 21, 2004 8:32 am

Please also tell us why EI cant operate a lower cost shorthaul product and not do long haul too? Where is the proof that this cant work?

BD do it.

They advertise their shorthaul as lower fares, and have the longhaul as full service. Their domestic and European ops are very competitively priced on the mainline service (not BMIbaby).
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
snnams
Posts: 279
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2004 9:51 am

RE: BA Plan To Buy Aer Lingus

Wed Jul 21, 2004 8:41 am

Cheers whitehatter!

I dont understand why everything needs to be put in a convenient little box like so many suggest. "it must be all no frills whether short or long haul".. why? I dont see EI plunging into bankruptcy right now, quite the opposite in fact! And if immitation is the sincerest form of flattery, EI's face must be blushing, as such names as SK and KL have stated they will follow this model.

I know exactly what to expect when I fly EI: I'll simply get a few of the things for free on long haul that I woud pay for on short haul. Is it really THAT hard to understand?
 
boeingbus
Posts: 1545
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 12:37 am

RE: BA Plan To Buy Aer Lingus

Wed Jul 21, 2004 10:37 am

not so fast... BA not interested in Aer Lingus...

http://www.rte.ie/business/2004/0720/aerlingus.html

 Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
 
carduelis
Posts: 1388
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2001 8:24 pm

RE: BA Plan To Buy Aer Lingus

Wed Jul 21, 2004 1:30 pm

See my response #42. Reducing debt to compete with the LCC was not relevant in buying EI - it was not even mentioned in that context! It is just a matter of reducing debt in general!


Per Ardua ad Astra! ........ Honi Soit Qui Mal y Pense!
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15079
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: BA Plan To Buy Aer Lingus

Wed Jul 21, 2004 5:46 pm

AF-A319 Re: Should I understand from your comments that BA should also purchase SN as well as we're still using the venerable PARS system?

No you're not - SN uses Atraxis, SR/LX's system now owned and operated by EDS. Based on PARS yes, but then all IBM Res systems are based originally on PARS. How long ATRAXIS lasts is also an open question, just by the way. Not for much longer, is the current vicious rumour.

Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos