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AATriple7
Topic Author
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Future Of HP

Thu Jul 22, 2004 3:09 am

What does the future look like for HP, are they planning on ordering any new aircraft or are they going to introduce any new non-stop point-to-point services? My dad is applying to work for them as a ground crew guy in PHX, if anyone were works for HP please tell me what you think of it, is it enjoyable?
USAF
 
jmc1975
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RE: Future Of HP

Thu Jul 22, 2004 3:31 am

Look for 4 additional point-to-point routes to Mexico to begin in December. Announcement shall be forthcoming.
.......
 
hockey55dude
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RE: Future Of HP

Thu Jul 22, 2004 4:15 am

Hope San Diego is in that mix! Aeromexico Flight Prices Are High.
 
desertjets
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RE: Future Of HP

Thu Jul 22, 2004 4:20 am

Do a quick search on HP's recent Airbus order... they should begin receiving new planes beginning in the late winter/early spring 2005, about 20 A319/A320s. Until America West can get more gate space at Sky Harbor a lot of their new routes will have to be point-to-point.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
 
AZjetgeek
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RE: Future Of HP

Thu Jul 22, 2004 4:47 am

With the coming changes at Terminal 4 at PHX, shouldn't that improve HP's ability to generate more traffic from there?

Although HP has been on the turn-around ever since Doug Parker came aboard, IMO it would appear that their plans to expand routes might backfire. Obviously, they're acquiring the A319/320's to meet those needs, but with the new planes, there are more fuel costs, maintenance, etc.

HP reported a modest profit in 2Q. I would hate to see them undo their progress by overexpanding as they did under the regime that ruled them in the early 90's.
Long live the RJ!
 
7e72004
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RE: Future Of HP

Thu Jul 22, 2004 4:51 am

I think HP is one of the airlines that is out there and is a "forgotten" one...you never know...they may just be a "sleeping giant" and is waiting for others to fall before becoming aggressive  Big thumbs up
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
as739x
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RE: Future Of HP

Thu Jul 22, 2004 4:54 am

Look for San Diego and Palm Springs out of San Francisco. HP is currently working on an additional gate at SFO. Both citys will be surved by CR9.

ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
7e72004
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RE: Future Of HP

Thu Jul 22, 2004 4:55 am

It seems like most of HP's operations are in the west...they seemed to have a good presence when they had the CMH hub though.
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
Byrdluvs747
Posts: 2540
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:25 am

RE: Future Of HP

Thu Jul 22, 2004 5:08 am

AATriple7,


Here's a few things that might interest you.

Planes:
  • Ordered 22 A320 aircraft(A319 & A320's). First five to be delivered in early 2005. Remaining 17 to be delivered in late 2005/2006.

  • Added 4 A320's to the fleet in June. This is outside of the Airbus order

  • All 732's to be retired by early 2005


  • Operations:
  • LAX is gradually being elevated into a "focus city". If and when US moves into T7 or T8 with UA, HP will have full use of gates 4B, 8 , and 12. HP currently shares 4B and 8 with US. US's Club in T1 will also be taken over by HP.

  • ETOPS certification to be completed by Nov 05. Training begins Jan 05. This leads to speculation that Carribean destinations will be added.

  • Has applied to codeshare with Royal Jordanian Airline(RJ)


  • New Routes(Confirmed):
  • Las Vegas-Los Cabos (Express)

  • Las Vegas-Puerto Vallarta (Express)

  • Los Angeles-Acapulco (mainline)

  • Oakland-Los Cabos (mainline)

  • San Diego-Los Cabos (Express)

  • San Diego-Puerto Vallarta (Express)


  • New Routes(Rumored):
  • LAX-ORD

  • LAX-DFW

  • LAX-MIA

  • PHX-Belize


  • Other Rumors:
  • Two planes a month to be added to the fleet. Based on recent additions, this may have merit.

  • Three 757's to be added by years end. Acquiring from a foreign airline.
  • The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
     
    scottysair
    Posts: 6441
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    RE: Future Of HP

    Thu Jul 22, 2004 5:14 am

    This is very good information about HP and even way think about they decide to make expanded to caribbean flight. I sure will make more flights anytime soon. As for other routes will make added from PHX-BZE and they already service from MIA, DFW-BZE routes on AA.
     
    flyboyaz
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    RE: Future Of HP

    Thu Jul 22, 2004 5:17 am

    All those rumors are pretty much what I heard. Other new mainline destinations rumored were Cozumel, Charlotte, and Cincinnatti (3 C's hehe). I think SJU would be great if we could get ETOPS...would probably do pretty well.

    Doug is doing a great job and they are trying to be pretty conservative and plan out our growth carefully. The really keep track of what's working and what isn't, fixing problems quickly. We experienced a drop in our OTP when we utlized aircraft more...they quickly changed some turn times to help eliminate delays and get more aircraft to mechanics.

    Catch a ride on a smile!
     
    Byrdluvs747
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    RE: Future Of HP

    Thu Jul 22, 2004 6:07 am

    As739x,

    Where did you hear about SFO-SAN/PSP? I have seen no filing for it yet.

    If true, this is great news. I've been desperately waiting for HP to develop intra-CA flights for a while now.
    The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
     
    User avatar
    EA CO AS
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    RE: Future Of HP

    Thu Jul 22, 2004 6:53 am

    CZM would do great as a tag on their CUN flights from PHX:

    PHX-CUN-CZM
    CZM-CUN-PHX

    The loads would be aided with the CZM traffic, plus enabling higher yields year-round.
    "In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

    Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
     
    scottysair
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    RE: Future Of HP

    Thu Jul 22, 2004 6:57 am

    Are you sure one of service to CZM? It will make easier for high yield during for year-round.
     
    cactushp
    Posts: 324
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    RE: Future Of HP

    Thu Jul 22, 2004 7:47 am

    Byrdluves747:
    To add to your list of codeshares,
    Quantas

    And also thats about all the stuff I've heard.


    CactusHP
    Sorry, I was on the landline
     
    flyboy7974
    Posts: 1396
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    RE: Future Of HP

    Thu Jul 22, 2004 8:14 am

    i doubt the sfo service, simply for the fact that sfo trans-cons are performing below par, the best is jfk from sfo, that is direct from my roommate working in the hp route analysis/profit planning area in corporate. lax trans cons are doing much better, although iad is very slow to catch up to what jfk/bos did in l.a. always rumored here are more lax transcons, lax to mexico, phx to central/south america, and more las service. look above, how many people were surprised with the oak announcement of mexico service. lax-ord will never happen unless hp picks up more slots or leases them from other airlines, but that would be quite expensive. hp is still pushing for more dca service as well, they want a lax transcon definitely.
     
    SafetyDude
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    RE: Future Of HP

    Thu Jul 22, 2004 8:20 am

    I think HP is one of the airlines that is out there and is a "forgotten" one
    Yep, I agree. They are really promoting their JFK-LAX/SFO service on their website, but I have yet to see an ad over here in New York.

    With the "rumored" new LAX routes, what is the space at their terminal at LAX? I imagine that it can be pretty full with SW, especially with a limited amount of remote stands near by.

     Smile
    -Will
    "She Flew For What We Stand For"
     
    flyboyaz
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    RE: Future Of HP

    Thu Jul 22, 2004 8:38 am

    One of the SFO-BOS flights is getting axed from what I read...so that should free up a plane for other service.
    Catch a ride on a smile!
     
    Byrdluvs747
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    RE: Future Of HP

    Thu Jul 22, 2004 8:41 am


    With the "rumored" new LAX routes, what is the space at their terminal at LAX?


    They have three purely HP gates, and two gates they share with US. I fly in and out of LAX on HP quite often. So far, everything seems to be going smoothly with their three primary gates.

    I am really hoping US moves out of T1 soon. Having all six gates and the added ticket counter space will be a big plus for HP.
    The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
     
    stirling
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    RE: Future Of HP

    Thu Jul 22, 2004 8:56 am

    CactusHP-

    Q-Queensland
    A-And
    N-Northwest
    T-Territory
    A-Aerial
    S-Service

    QANTAS is an acronym, therefore the "U" is not required.
    Delete this User
     
    tpk
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    RE: Future Of HP

    Thu Jul 22, 2004 9:39 am

    "New Routes(Rumored):
    # LAX-ORD

    # LAX-DFW

    # LAX-MIA

    # PHX-Belize"

    I think you would have to see TZ go out of business before HP would consider serving CHI-LAX nonstop. The fares in that market are just too low.

    LAX-DFW would have been a decent idea, but we missed the boat on that when FL got to it first.
     
    MSYtristar
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    RE: Future Of HP

    Thu Jul 22, 2004 9:44 am

    HP is adding LAS-MSY nonstop as of 9/8/04 and is also adding another frequency on LAS-IAH with an A320. Good to see HP continue to beef up the LAS hub.
     
    Byrdluvs747
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    RE: Future Of HP

    Thu Jul 22, 2004 11:58 am


    I think you would have to see TZ go out of business before HP would consider serving CHI-LAX nonstop. The fares in that market are just too low.


    Given TZ's financial situation, that may happen. Considering HP competes with WN on a number of routes, I don't see TZ's pricing as a big deterrence. I think they can do it.
    The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
     
    tpk
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    RE: Future Of HP

    Thu Jul 22, 2004 1:07 pm

    True, sharing that market with WN doesn't help yields much, but TZ has a lot to do with the $118 and $138 RT fares that we've seen in CHI-LAX recently. I have a feeling that AA, UA and WN wouldn't mind getting the lowest-of-the-low back up to the old price point of $198, but with all of that capacity pressure, it doesn't seem like that's going to happen any time soon.

    This industry still has a lot of changes to go through. It will be interesting to see how everything plays out.
     
    Cubsrule
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    RE: Future Of HP

    Thu Jul 22, 2004 1:58 pm

    It's interesting that HP is looking at two of the eastern markets most lacking in LCC service: CVG and CLT. I'm not sure that HP can be horribly successful in either one, though. Neither CLT nor CVG have great O&D populations, and both are stocked with elites loyal to US and DL, respectively. All potential routes have significant capacity now, and with HP having a comparitively small network from which to provide connections, I'm skeptical of their ability to fill their planes regardless of how low fares are. As someone who flies from CLT a decent bit, though, I'd welcome any new entrant who would lower fares.
    I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
     
    AirframeAS
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    RE: Future Of HP

    Thu Jul 22, 2004 4:08 pm

    Three 757's to be added by years end. Acquiring from a foreign airline.

    Totally false. According to an employee magazine at HP called 'PlaneTalk', they have said that the B757 fleet will remain at 13 a/c and will not take anymore planes into that fleet. The original phase out date was 2005 but since the 752 has surprisingly been peforming very well lately, HP has decided to give the 752 fleet another lease at life. The new target date for phase out of this aircraft is in 2008. They are not going to be adding new/secondhand 752s at all.

    I have a feeling that HP will eventually become a full Airbus fleet by 2009.
    A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
     
    wgw2707
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    RE: Future Of HP

    Thu Jul 22, 2004 4:40 pm

    LAX is gradually being elevated into a "focus city". If and when US moves into T7 or T8 with UA, HP will have full use of gates 4B, 8 , and 12. HP currently shares 4B and 8 with US. US's Club in T1 will also be taken over by HP.

    Does HP currently have a lounge at PHX or LAS? If not, what would they do with the US Airways Club at LAX T1? It would make little sense for your only club lounge to be at a focus city rather than at one of your hubs...

    -WGW2707
     
    AirframeAS
    Posts: 9811
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    RE: Future Of HP

    Thu Jul 22, 2004 4:45 pm

    In PHX, yes they have a lounge above gate B4. At LAS, I dont know.
    A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
     
    yokohama1970
    Posts: 196
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    AWA Clubs & LAS-MSY

    Thu Jul 22, 2004 5:43 pm

    in PHX, HP has 3 America West Clubs.

    http://www.americawest.com/flightfund/awaclub/ff_awclublocations.htm


    about the LAS to MSY service:


    http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/ticker/article.asp?Symbol=US:AWA&Feed=PR&Date=20040621&ID=3816527





    hope this helps

    tom

    [Edited 2004-07-22 10:48:46]

    [Edited 2004-07-22 11:05:30]
    Thank You Derek! Good Luck with the LA Dodgers
     
    CV990
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    RE: Future Of HP

    Thu Jul 22, 2004 6:17 pm

    Hi!

    I flew last November from FAT to YYZ via PHX using Mesa CRJ200 from FAT to PHX, then AC 321 from PHX to YYZ. On the way back I flew HP 319 from YYZ to PHX and finnally Freedom CRJ700 from PHX to FAT. My opinion is that HP is not that bad, it's a low cost airline so you can't expect nothing, but even then they are very generous on the drinks. My flight was delayed from FAT to PHX so they imediatelly before I left FAT booked me in the next available flight, with AC. The airplanes they used were very good and in very good condition, the 319 was very clean and the CRJ700 it's just a great regional jet. The only thing I have to complain was the fact that when I was in transit at PHX the guys there were s little bit slow and I almost lost my connection flight. PHX it' a pleasent and complete surprise to me. HP gave the feeling that in any future oportunity I might consider them has my carrier!
    regards
    CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
     
    wgw2707
    Posts: 1113
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    RE: Future Of HP

    Thu Jul 22, 2004 7:08 pm

    Actually I would disagree that HP is an LCC...now that I know that they have lounge clubs, that confirms my theory. HP provides all of the services the Big Six provide (first class, regional service, lounges, meals on longer flights), therefore, HP must be a network carrier. Also as I mentioned in a previous post, if HP was an LCC why would they engage in extensive codeshare agreements with a wide variety of prestigious international network carriers including British Airways (the anti-LCC if ever there was one) and EVA Air, as well as codesharing with Hawaiian and the tiny regional airline Big Sky? If they were an LCC they would probably not codeshare with anyone, let alone British Airways.

    I think America West has a positive future ahead. Throughout much of the 1990s they were undeniably the worst airline in the United States, the Continental of the 1990s, if you will, and like Continental, a new CEO (Doug Parker) has taken over and is in the process of completely transforming America West into a much better airline.

    I have criticized some of HP's decisions, like the advertisements on seatbacks, on this site in the past, but following two excellent flights with them recently (SMF-PHX and PHX-JFK) I have to say I am hugely impressed by the turnaround that airline has made since their nadir in the 1990s. Darn they were terrible back then...but on my recent flight with them they were rather excellent.

    The quality of service I experienced and that I have heard stories of others experiencing combined with the more intelligent management since Parker took over and the fact that the airline has actually managed to be slightly profitable recently lead me to believe that America West in the years ahead could become a very dynamic, thriving US airline.

    Hopefully they won't become a victim of a merger...

    -WGW2707
     
    ei2ksea
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    RE: Future Of HP

    Thu Jul 22, 2004 10:57 pm

    On the subject of mergers, ive oftain thought that with the establishment of Ted in DEN that Frontier and AmericaWest might be a possible match providing Frontier with some increased bulk against United. As it pans out, it seems there is room for both in Denver but who knows in future - esp. if as has been said here PHX may be becoming congested and with Frontier and AmericaWest looking on LAX as a focus city.

    After the shut down of the Columbus mini eastern hub, how about CLT for America West if US eventually have to shut down (I hate speaking of this thought - im flying US to TPA via CLT tomorrow  Wink/being sarcastic ). CLT seems to be a very low cost place to do business and there would be a huge opening for a company like AWA with a lower cost structure and some nerve to get established - its a hub being served to them on a plate! Get in there now HP!
    Next Flight: EWR-SEA (AS), SEA-EWR (UA), EWR-SEA-EWR (UA)
     
    njdevilsin03
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    RE: Future Of HP

    Thu Jul 22, 2004 11:14 pm

    "New Routes(Rumored):
    # LAX-ORD

    # LAX-DFW

    # LAX-MIA

    # PHX-Belize"

    ---Most carriers to choose to operate into FLL if they are entering the low cost market, the fees at MIA are very high. I feel they'd operate FLL before MIA, just my 2 cents
    717, 727, 731, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 752, 753, 762, 763, 777, DC9, MD80, DC10, L1011, ERJ, CRJ, ATR, DH8, A300,
     
    PHX Flyer
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    RE: Future Of HP

    Thu Jul 22, 2004 11:21 pm

    @ Byrdluvs747

    You wrote:

    << ETOPS certification to be completed by Nov 05. Training begins Jan 05. This leads to speculation that Carribean destinations will be added. >>

    I am wondering, if you might be confusing ETOPS with certification for overwater flights (which would allow for flight routes up to 60 min away from a suitable diversion airport).
    AWA would not need ETOPS to fly to the Caribbean. They would need it for flights to Hawaii or to Europe.

    Then again, I have heard from other sources that AWA is indeed seeking to get ETOPS approval, including the possibility of acquiring a small,"overlooked" US airline with an existing ETOPS certificate. What I haven't heard yet, is a set ETOPS training date.
    "Once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes forever skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return." -Leonardo Da Vinci
     
    AZjetgeek
    Posts: 229
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    RE: Future Of HP

    Thu Jul 22, 2004 11:57 pm

    One of the areas in which HP has improved greatly is its codeshare agreements. For those who can recall the early 90's, HP began offering 747 service to Hawaii. Now, they codeshare with Hawaiian Airlines to provide the PHX-HNL service. It saves HP from having to purchase the 767's and triple 7's to make such long-range journeys.

    However, if I were an HP stockholder, I'd still be a bit nervous about their long-term future. Don't forget that prior to getting the loan guarantee in Jan 2002, HP was on the brink of missing major debt payments that could have forced the airline back into Chapt. 11. Several other majors were upset about that, especially United, which has been denied the guarantees.

    If the industry as a whole were to face a significant downtown either because of the economy, continued rising fuel expenses, or some catastrophic incident, I would doubt the feds would rescue them again.

    The plan Doug Parker has been following was characterized as conservative. I would disagree in part. While he has closed HP's CMH hub, he continues to acquire a lot of aircraft and there has to be some foundation behind the new route rumors. However, in comparison with the strategy of Parker's predecessors at HP, his plan is definitely conservative.

    HP still has a poor reputation for its treatment of employees, especially unions. They have improved customer service significantly, but still suffer through some blips there as well. The airline should continue to focus more on how they treat their employees and their customers rather than finding ways to spend money on more aircraft and adding more destinations to far away places.
    Long live the RJ!
     
    MAH4546
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    RE: Future Of HP

    Fri Jul 23, 2004 12:18 am

    ---Most carriers to choose to operate into FLL if they are entering the low cost market, the fees at MIA are very high. I feel they'd operate FLL before MIA, just my 2 cents

    No, the plan is MIA for the exact reasons you mentioned. Most carriers do chose FLL, and America West doesn't want to enter and compete with them. HP's intentions with MIA-LAX, which is rumoured to be starting this winter, are to enter a high-yielding trans-con market and bring low-fare service to it. FLL-LAX already has that. It is true that MIA's fees are higher, but airlines can get away with charging higher fares and making more money.
    a.
     
    flyboyaz
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    RE: Future Of HP

    Fri Jul 23, 2004 1:09 am

    You have to remember that when we started a codeshare with CO about a decade ago, we started to model ourselves after the legacy carriers. Actually a codeshare with an airline like CO would require that. However, with WN being our biggest competitor, we are not able to survive in such a state, therefore we changed our business model to more of a LCC model. It has proven to be quite successful and really has ticked off other airlines. But you have to do what is necessary for survival. While we are not a LCC carrier in the eyes of many, we still follow that model. We are basically a LCC with benefits. PSA, the original LCC, had cooperative agreements with many airlines and they started the whole craze. I think most people compare the LCC model with what WN does, and while they certainly have pioneered the market, they aren't the only ones doing so. They do their own thing, and if it works, good for them!

    We really are still in a state of recovery from the Franke leadership. It might have gone away a lot faster had 9/11 not happened. Unfortunately it did and we have been strapped for money so alot of changes were not implemented as fast as alot of our employees would have liked. Doug really does care about his people and has done alot for us already. He gave all non union employees and extra week of vacation to align us more with union employees...we've gotten a raise every year, even when we were losing money. This year we are getting our normal raise plus an extra 4%...that's more than most airline employees are getting. Last year we got a profit sharing check of about 5% of our annual salary. We also started a committee that takes suggestions from employees on how to improve our work environment. I'm on that committee and it is doing very well...they've listened to us and have put into place alot of our suggestions. We have a lot of really unhappy employees...most who really haven't figured out that Doug is nothing like our last CEO. Trust takes time, as it did at CO when Gordon came on. There are alot of employees I'd like to see gone because they just have such a poor attitude, it really is discouraging for the rest of us. If they don't like their job, they need to find another one.

    Our Florida routes do extremely well. I think starting a MIA-LAX route would be awesome. Other LCC carriers tend to stay away from the major airports...like flying to FLL instead of MIA. What's good for us is that we already fly there and just adding service between 2 cities we already serve would be quite easy.
    Catch a ride on a smile!
     
    Cubsrule
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    RE: Future Of HP

    Fri Jul 23, 2004 1:58 am

    CLT seems to be a very low cost place to do business and there would be a huge opening for a company like AWA with a lower cost structure and some nerve to get established - its a hub being served to them on a plate! Get in there now HP!

    While I would love to see a large HP operation in CLT, I don't think that it would be geographically appropriate for their operations. US uses CLT primarily as a north/south connecting point, while HP would presumably use CLT as an east/west connecting point, similar to CMH's role when it was open. CLT is, in my opinion, located both too far south and too far east to serve this purpose. While it works for, say, Chicago to Florida flights, it wouldn't work as well for those traveling from Dallas to New York. US has to rely really heavily on connecting pax to make CLT work (one of the lowest percentages of O&D at a major hub if I'm not mistaken), and I'm not sure that a potential HP route structure would be conducive to this.
    I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
     
    Flyawa
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    RE: Future Of HP

    Fri Jul 23, 2004 2:34 am

    As far I know, HP still flys shoreline routings, unless someone has an update for me. ETOPS will shorten their overwater routes to MIA and CUN from the west.

    They also had not yet acquired technical certification (stage 3?) to land in less than half mile minimum fog and weather.




    Better than most, not as good as some.
     
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    OzarkD9S
    Posts: 5635
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    RE: Future Of HP

    Fri Jul 23, 2004 2:47 am

    Hey HP: There's nearly an entire concourse available in STL.

    Hoping against hope here...
    "True, I talk of dreams,
    Which are the children of an idle brain." -Mercutio
     
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    mariner
    Posts: 19473
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    RE: Future Of HP

    Fri Jul 23, 2004 2:51 am

    FLYAWA:

    There seems to be a confusion between ETOPS and "over water ops." They are seperate issues.

    A two engine non-ETOPS aircraft must never be more than 60 minutes from the nearest airport.

    An two engine "overwater ops" aircraft can go up to 60 minutes from the nearest airport.

    So Frontier is not ETOPS but is "overwater". This means they can fly the direct routes "overwater" to CUN and Florida, rather than hugging the coast.

    I may be wrong, but I can't see that an aircraft from PHX or LAS would need ETOPS for either the Caribbean or Europe.

    But they would need it for Hawaii.

    So if HP is being certified for ETOPS, this would suggest that their sights are on Hawaii.

    I don't know how this would affect their code share with Hawaiian Airlines.

    cheers

    mariner
    aeternum nauta
     
    PHX Flyer
    Posts: 544
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    RE: Future Of HP

    Fri Jul 23, 2004 3:09 am

    ETOPS120 is needed for ECONOMICAL flight routes to Europe. For the southernmost route across the North Atlantic you would need ETOPS138, and for Hawaii ETOPS180 is required (the numbers refer to the max flying time allowed to the nearest suitable alternate).

    But we still do not know, if AWA is working on ETOPS approval or simple overwater certification.
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    ei2ksea
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    RE: Future Of HP

    Fri Jul 23, 2004 3:19 am

    Accuse me of being an obsessive about HP building up a new hub but STL would do me  Wink/being sarcastic

    Thanks Cubsrule - i never really thought about HPs heavy east west rather than North South route orientation. Where i was coming from earlier was more from looking at USAirways with a heavy eastern presence and abysmal Western presence (what exactly did they do with PSA can anyone tell me???) which seems to work against them. Maybe if HP could develop some kind of mid-america hub it might help aleviate some congestion difficulties out west and open up new regions - just as Columbus may have done. STL is superbly positioned but AA might have other things to say - maybe I just like symmetry in my route networks maybe!
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    asuflyer05
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    RE: Future Of HP

    Fri Jul 23, 2004 5:12 am

    I think you'll see some more point to point routes rather than another hub. HP has a pretty good brand presence in the western region of the country and I expect them to capitalize on it.

    Don't forget YV is taking delivery of a bunch of CR9s over the next year or so. Look for additional frequencies on city pairs already served and the new Mexican service as well.
     
    Byrdluvs747
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    RE: Future Of HP

    Fri Jul 23, 2004 7:01 am


    Actually I would disagree that HP is an LCC...now that I know that they have lounge clubs, that confirms my theory. HP provides all of the services the Big Six provide (first class, regional service, lounges, meals on longer flights), therefore, HP must be a network carrier. Also as I mentioned in a previous post, if HP was an LCC why would they engage in extensive codeshare agreements with a wide variety of prestigious international network carriers including British Airways (the anti-LCC if ever there was one) and EVA Air, as well as codesharing with Hawaiian and the tiny regional airline Big Sky? If they were an LCC they would probably not codeshare with anyone, let alone British Airways.


    None of that has anything to do with being a low cost carrier. From either perspective HP is an LCC. Their costs are low and their prices are low(when compared to the majors). The services provided(meals, clubs, or partners) is irrelevant when your prices and costs are below that of the big six. I have never seen a definition of LCC that says what services could or couldn't be provided.

    Just becuase WN does it one way, doesn't mean that's the only way.


    I am wondering, if you might be confusing ETOPS with certification for overwater flights (which would allow for flight routes up to 60 min away from a suitable diversion airport).


    I could be. At times I hear that it's ETOPS, and other times over-water.

    AZjetgeek,

    The big difference between then and now is HP's cash balance. HP was in a terrible position with a very small amount of available cash. Now they have over $400 million, albeit mostly due to the loan.


    As far I know, HP still flys shoreline routings, unless someone has an update for me. ETOPS will shorten their overwater routes to MIA and CUN from the west.


    That's probably reason enough to go for ETOPS. The fuel savings would add up quickly
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    EA CO AS
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    RE: Future Of HP

    Fri Jul 23, 2004 7:17 am

    As far I know, HP still flys shoreline routings, unless someone has an update for me. ETOPS will shorten their overwater routes to MIA and CUN from the west.

    It's just the over-water certification that they need to shave time off those routes, not ETOPS.

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    hockey55dude
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    RE: Future Of HP

    Fri Jul 23, 2004 9:24 am

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    AirframeAS
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    RE: Future Of HP

    Fri Jul 23, 2004 2:51 pm

    Actually I would disagree that HP is an LCC...now that I know that they have lounge clubs, that confirms my theory. HP provides all of the services the Big Six provide (first class, regional service, lounges, meals on longer flights), therefore, HP must be a network carrier.

    HP is an hybrid carrier along with AS.
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    HAL
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    RE: Future Of HP

    Mon Aug 02, 2004 2:11 pm

    I have only been with HP for a short time as I'm still in training. However we have had visits from Jeff McClelland (COO) and other management types who have been very frank and upfront to the challenges and advantages that we have here. Please remember I have had little exposure to the day-to-day operations here, but have seen quite a bit of what's going on around PHX. To cover a few of the remarks from above:

    ETOPS: The COO said that we are pursuing ETOPS certification on the 757's, not for any specific route to be announced, but so that we will be ready when the analysis people decide it would be profitable for us to do so. Without 'overwater' certification, we are limited to 50 miles from shore. The 'overwater' would give us 1 hour from shore, but is close to ETOPS in terms of complexity and cost. Therefore, we are pursuing ETOPS with an eye toward the future. With ETOPS, the "E" stands for extended which has all been discussed before. For now, with the 50 mile limit, it is just about impossible to get to the Caribbean. That is one of the places the ETOPS would help with.

    New Planes: HP has the recently announced order for 20+ A320's coming starting next year, and the word from the COO is that the 'big' order is still to come. After that, they will be analyzing their needs as far as longer routes and bigger planes. If the financial types decide it is to HP's advantage to start flying further, then bigger (probably widebody) planes will be looked at. However according to him, the size gap between the A320 and A330 is so big that the chances are that the order *might* be for something inbetween such as the 767 family. Remember this isn't a near term rumor, just a company official musing on which way the far distant future may be going.

    New Routes: The COO also said we are constantly analyzing possible routes looking for ones that we can profitably fly. The only discussion for new mainline routes (not yet announced) that look promising are from PHX down to Belize and Panama City.

    Taking over old hubs (i.e. CLT/STL etc): In today's airline business the problem (other than fuel cost) is overcapacity. There are too many seats chasing too few butts. When HP left Columbus, there were a few airlines that increased frequency, but that amounted to only about 50% of the capacity that HP pulled out. That is about the norm for most hubs, since a lot of the traffic through them isn't originating from there, but just passing through. The same is true for TWA/AA out of STL. The bottom line is this: Every airline has highly paid analysis people constantly looking for new good routes for their planes. If it would be profitable for someone to fly into a city, it is probably already being done. I feel sorry for those in places like PIT or STL where so much service has been lost, but if the need were really there, the chances are that someone would already be filling that need.


    HP as low cost carrier: It most definitely is a LCC. The only definition of low cost carrier that is accepted by the industry is just that - low cost. You have to look at an airlines CASM (Cost per Available Seat Mile), or to put it plainly, the overall cost for the airline to move one seat one mile. Recently HP has had the second lowest cost behind Southwest, and in the last couple months has been better (lower) than ATA, Airtran, or Jetblue. The rest is just fluff - first class, lounges, food, amenities, paintjobs etc. Those actually have nothing to do with which airlines are LCC and which are not. In the final accounting, airlines are business just like any other. To call them LCC only comments on their financial ability to get the job done cheaper than others, not on what method they use to get there.

    HAL
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    awa10921
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    RE: Future Of HP

    Mon Aug 02, 2004 3:26 pm

    right now HP has no gate space in PHX, Mesa has preety much taken over b2-b14 as of July, 29th..30-40 min. gate hold during the busy 9am bank..Also we are so short on employees in PHX it's a joke. 2 guys to turn a 757 give me a break. Moral on the ramp is quickly turing ugly. They have preety much fired all full time employees, have not hired a full time ramper since Oct, 2003.. This past week was the worse, with no employees there were a ton of missed bags and a ton of late flights, I really hope we can turn this mess around.

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