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flyabr
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New 717 And 777 Customers...?

Thu Jul 22, 2004 1:45 pm

check out this article:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/182899_airshow21.html

down into the article a ways...a boeing executive mentions that a couple fairly large airlines are very interested in the 717. other than ATA...who might he be talkin' about??

he also mentioned a couple brand new 777 customers. i wouldn't have the slightest idea who these never-had-a-777-before customers would be...do you??
 
LRGT
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RE: New 717 And 777 Customers...?

Thu Jul 22, 2004 1:48 pm

I think it is obvious...NW

The 717's to replace the DC9's and 777 to replace DC10's
Don't bring up the NW DC9's unless you have to!
 
S12PPL
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RE: New 717 And 777 Customers...?

Thu Jul 22, 2004 1:52 pm

At the risk of getting yelled at..... Smile Maybe Northwest to get rid of they're old DC9's??? Laugh out loud

There have also been the rumors of Southwest maybe placing an order for 717's...but as always, nothing firm from anyone.
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flyabr
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RE: New 717 And 777 Customers...?

Thu Jul 22, 2004 1:52 pm

he says tongue-n-cheek...lol... Big grin
 
flyabr
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RE: New 717 And 777 Customers...?

Thu Jul 22, 2004 1:55 pm

s12PPL,

i'd think southwest would qualify as a big airline...

only ones i can think of for the 717 would be ATA and maybe alaska...but i can't remember what alaska has in their fleet for 100 seaters...
 
S12PPL
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RE: New 717 And 777 Customers...?

Thu Jul 22, 2004 1:55 pm

I'm starting the pool now....How long until this turns into ANOTHER "When will NW get rid of they're old DC9's?" thread??

I'm saying by the 10th reply. Any takers? Laugh out loud
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S12PPL
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RE: New 717 And 777 Customers...?

Thu Jul 22, 2004 1:58 pm

I think the only thing they have in they're fleet close to the 100 seat range would be they're aging MD80 series planes, and they're 737-400's and 737 NG's. But they are slowly....ever so slowly retiring off they're MD80's. I doubt Alaska would order any 717's in the near future until they take deliveries of 737NG's first, to help boost they're trans-con expansion. Maybe then they could order some 717's to help on they're west coast routes....? I think the 717 would look good in AS colors.
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LRGT
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RE: New 717 And 777 Customers...?

Thu Jul 22, 2004 2:01 pm

Is there ever a day when we can mention a NW DC9 or even a DC9 in general without getting into a huge discussion about the future of the NW DC9 programme? Can they just take them out to Merana and run over them with a bulldozer so everyone will stop talking about them!

...but the way they closed down their engine overhaul shop for the DC9 engines. They are buying up second-hand ones with time on them to keep the programme going, but once they run out it is BYE BYE FINALLY!
Don't bring up the NW DC9's unless you have to!
 
flyabr
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RE: New 717 And 777 Customers...?

Thu Jul 22, 2004 2:03 pm

welll, i certainly wasn't the one who brought the dc-9 into this topic...!!  Big grin
 
777ER
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RE: New 717 And 777 Customers...?

Thu Jul 22, 2004 2:06 pm

Last month Air New Zealand ordered 8 B777-200ERs with 36 options from the B777 family.
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DfwRevolution
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RE: New 717 And 777 Customers...?

Thu Jul 22, 2004 2:08 pm

welll, i certainly wasn't the one who brought the dc-9 into this topic...!!

*pow*... well you guys finally did it. IndustrialPate, Planemaker, Gigneil, and myself all suffered simultaneous strokes.

down into the article a ways...a boeing executive mentions that a couple fairly large airlines are very interested in the 717. other than ATA...who might he be talkin' about??

I'd say ATA is a safe bet, if there is such a thing with the 717  Big grin

he also mentioned a couple brand new 777 customers. i wouldn't have the slightest idea who these never-had-a-777-before customers would be...do you??

New 773ER/772LR customer perhaps? And by that I mean a possible SQ, or a bigger stretch, CX order. The only *all* new 777 customer I can think of is Qantas, but they've made no indications of going for the 777 or A340 publically.
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flyabr
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RE: New 717 And 777 Customers...?

Thu Jul 22, 2004 2:11 pm

dfwrevolution,

the way i read the article...bright appeared to say two brand new 777 customers...ie...ones who'd never ordered the 777 before....maybe i read it wrong??
 
whitehatter
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RE: New 717 And 777 Customers...?

Thu Jul 22, 2004 2:12 pm

People here are assuming it's an American carrier.

Doesn't have to be...Boeing could surprise us all! There are other airlines looking at the 717. Same with the 777.

I did hear about one potential customer for the 717, and that would be a real shocker. It's totally unsubstantiated and probably crap, but it would indicate that Boeing are looking in areas other than US domestics for the 717 and actively doing so. As well as the DC-9, the 717 would make an ideal TU-134 replacement and that's as far as it goes....plus it's available now.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
dbo861
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RE: New 717 And 777 Customers...?

Thu Jul 22, 2004 2:43 pm

"There have also been the rumors of Southwest maybe placing an order for 717's...but as always, nothing firm from anyone."

I've never heard of this rumor, unless it is pretty recent. I've always heard that they considered getting some RJs but they decided to stick to their original business plan of staying with only 737s. Does anyone else have info about WN considering the 717?
 
LRGT
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RE: New 717 And 777 Customers...?

Thu Jul 22, 2004 2:47 pm

I think hell will freeze over before WN gets a non-737! If they wanted something on the 717 class, I assure you they would get a 737-600.

I would be willing to be a LOT against WN being the man behind the curtain!
Don't bring up the NW DC9's unless you have to!
 
bjg231
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RE: New 717 And 777 Customers...?

Thu Jul 22, 2004 3:00 pm

"As well as the DC-9, the 717 would make an ideal TU-134 replacement and that's as far as it goes....plus it's available now."

But doesn't the Russian government put a 20% tax premium on all western aircraft? That tax is the only thing that gives planes like the Sukhoi RRJ a chance (not that I agree with it).

And while I agree that not all Tu-134's are Russian, I would expect Russian airlines to be the ones with the greatest need of Tu-134 replacement.
If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving is not for you.
 
whitehatter
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RE: New 717 And 777 Customers...?

Thu Jul 22, 2004 3:15 pm

That's why Transaero planes have EI- registrations and Aeroflot planes are registered in Bermuda (VP-) and France.

They are leased in and registered outside Russia, but operate with a waiver arrangement.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
D950
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RE: New 717 And 777 Customers...?

Thu Jul 22, 2004 10:46 pm

I will throw this into the mix, Do not fall down dead if UAL orders 717's to phase out the 735.
Resting on your laurels is a synonym for flirting with disaster
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: New 717 And 777 Customers...?

Thu Jul 22, 2004 11:13 pm

"Is there ever a day when we can mention a NW DC9 or even a DC9 in general without getting into a huge discussion about the future of the NW DC9 programme?"

Hell, the Northwest DC-9 was brought up on the What will United's fleet look like in 3 years thread.
 
UnitedTristar
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RE: New 717 And 777 Customers...?

Fri Jul 23, 2004 12:32 am

"I will throw this into the mix, Do not fall down dead if UAL orders 717's to phase out the 735."

I was just going to say that. You know they have been having maintence issues with the bus fleet flying them on short flights that the 737 was flying. The busses were just not designed for stage lengths of less then an hour time after time after time again. I would look to UA to order something with better economics then the bus for these short hall flights. The 717 sure fits the bill. Boeing is looking to keep their hands in UA's narrowbody fleet. With the 757 stopping production and the 737's exiting the fleet I would see this as an ideal time. You know that UA is doing SO much better and not only meeting but EXCEEDING (that's right all you UA nay sayers exceeding) the DIP standards for performance and profitability! I would definitely expect an order shortly. UA is keeping their post bankruptcy business plan close to the vest so personally I would expect that we have some shockers coming our way. My predictions lay in UA ordering 7E7 and 717's (the 737NG probably would maintain the current pay rate and UA probably wants to pay the 717 crews less due to the shorter stage lengths of those flights). I would also expect to see more Asia from IAD and 747 retro fitted with some new IFE. Well just my .02.


-m

 Big thumbs up
 
The777Man
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RE: New 717 And 777 Customers...?

Fri Jul 23, 2004 12:34 am

As far as new 777 customers, I can think of Qantas (QF) and Qatar Airways (QR) that may order 777s. We will just have to wait and see. Air-India (AI) is another possibility.

The777Man
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DIA
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RE: New 717 And 777 Customers...?

Fri Jul 23, 2004 12:38 am

777ER has good info.

Look for ANZ to operate several types of the 777 over the next few years. If I can recall. . .I think the types include the 772ER, 772LR, and 773ER. I might be missing one type still. . .
Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
 
PHLBOS
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RE: New 717 And 777 Customers...?

Fri Jul 23, 2004 12:39 am

Should DL replace some of its RJ routes to mainline; they could possibly look into the 717 for routes too small for their 732s.
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
SafetyDude
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RE: New 717 And 777 Customers...?

Fri Jul 23, 2004 1:15 am

Last month Air New Zealand ordered 8 B777-200ERs with 36 options from the B777 family
As mentioned before, with 36 options, you have to wonder how many will be firmed up.

Is there a chance that the article confused itself, and when they said a "new 777 customer", they meant new to a particular model of the 777?

 Smile
-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
SafetyDude
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RE: New 717 And 777 Customers...?

Fri Jul 23, 2004 1:18 am

On a slightly different note, what is the status of the rumored SQ 777 order?

 Smile
-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
DIA
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RE: New 717 And 777 Customers...?

Fri Jul 23, 2004 1:21 am

"As mentioned before, with 36 options, you have to wonder how many will be firmed up."

Many will be firmed. They plan on replacing 744s with the 773s, I think between 2008 and 2015, if I remember correctly. Before that happens, though, look for more 772 orders firming up from them.
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LRGT
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RE: New 717 And 777 Customers...?

Fri Jul 23, 2004 1:24 am

I didn't even think of that! DL for sure! They got by retiring their huge fleet of L-1011s by replacing most of them with 767-400s...but what about the routes that demand the same number of seats as the L10; while the 767-400 is slightly smaller, the 777 is the same size. There is still a slight void with the 767 being Delta's biggest a/c now.

ALSO, to REPLACE the 737-200's as they become due for heavy maintainence...they will have to go in the next few years and they have 50 of them!

PHLBOS: they could possibly look into the 717 for routes too small for their 732s.

PHLBOS what are you talking about not for routes too small for the 737-200...THE 717 IS 10-SEATS BIGGER!

717 2-Class Config....12C/105Y=117 (FL...with a VERY comfortable C class)
732 2-Class Config....12C/95Y=107 (DL)
Don't bring up the NW DC9's unless you have to!
 
SafetyDude
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RE: New 717 And 777 Customers...?

Fri Jul 23, 2004 1:34 am

Many will be firmed. They plan on replacing 744s with the 773s, I think between 2008 and 2015, if I remember correctly. Before that happens, though, look for more 772 orders firming up from them.
Yep, I knew about the firming up, but when an airline orders a few planes and has options on four times that, you know something is going to happen. Big grin

I figured that the 777s would replace the 767s, but I guess not, mainly because I hate to see their 744s go.  Crying

-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
DIA
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RE: New 717 And 777 Customers...?

Fri Jul 23, 2004 1:35 am

*ANZ also plans on using 7E7s to replace 767s as well*
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flyabr
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RE: New 717 And 777 Customers...?

Fri Jul 23, 2004 1:38 am

well, maybe i'm reading too much into Mr. Bright's statement that a couple "fairly" large airlines were looking at the 717. to me WN, UA and DL are all BIG airlines!! nonetheless i'd love to see a major pickup the 712 and then demand a 713 to go along with it Big grin
 
LRGT
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RE: New 717 And 777 Customers...?

Fri Jul 23, 2004 1:49 am

Fairly large is Boing's way of saying a major carrier.

...speaking of the 713...will it happen? I would like to see that but isn't that a MD-90 which Boeing dumped because it was too close in size to the 737NGs? I think they should have kept the 90 and called it a 717-300 from the beginning since the 717-200 already is the same size as the 737-600...maybe even a seat or two bigger. If they really didn't want to compete with the 737NG series I would have thought they would have dumped BOTH MD-90 and MD-95 (717).

Maybe the MD-95 (717-200) was a more efficient plane than the 736 (I know it burns slightly less fuel while it carries a few more pax) and thus they kept it, buth then the MD-90 maybe since it was the same size as the 737-800 and cost the same to operate it was kiked out...and the ony way it will come back is if (a) they did not already break the molds, and (b) if a 717-200 airline who does not want to put a 737-800 on their certificate because of the cost and complexity of two types and need a larger aircraft DEMANDS a 717-300 from Boing; Airtran would have had this kind of pull but ended up with 737's so I don't see it happening with them squared away. Maybe Midwest Express or Hawaiian?
Don't bring up the NW DC9's unless you have to!
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: New 717 And 777 Customers...?

Fri Jul 23, 2004 1:59 am

If they really didn't want to compete with the 737NG series I would have thought they would have dumped BOTH MD-90 and MD-95 (717).

The 717 (previously MD-95) does not compete with the 737NG series, hence why Boeing kept it around. The 736 is for long-thin routes, while the 712 is designed for regional flights below 1400nm. They have simmilar capacity, but are tailored for different markets.

...speaking of the 713...will it happen? I would like to see that but isn't that a MD-90 which Boeing dumped because it was too close in size to the 737NGs?

The 717-300 was for airlines flying the 717 who wanted more capacity but didn't want to move up to the 737NG. It would also make the 717 family more complete, as the 717-200 is rather lonely. After the Star Alliance order went to Embraer/Bombardier and FL went with the 73G, I doubt it will reach production.

(b) if a 717-200 airline who does not want to put a 737-800 on their certificate because of the cost and complexity of two types and need a larger aircraft DEMANDS a 717-300 from Boing

The 717-300 would be no larger than a 73G. It would most likely seat 130 in 2-class configuration. It would not compete against the 738.
I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
PHLBOS
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RE: New 717 And 777 Customers...?

Fri Jul 23, 2004 2:01 am

From Lrgt,
ALSO, to REPLACE the 737-200's as they become due for heavy maintainence...they will have to go in the next few years and they have 50 of them!

From Reply #22:
...they could possibly look into the 717 for routes too small for their 732s.

From Lrgt,
...THE 717 IS 10-SEATS BIGGER!

717 2-Class Config....12C/105Y=117 (FL...with a VERY comfortable C class)
732 2-Class Config....12C/95Y=107 (DL)


Lrgt, a couple of things:

1. Thank you for the 732 2-Class configuration numbers. For some reason, I was under the impression that the 732 had more (not bigger) seats than the 717; I stand corrected.

2. I think we're both on the same page as towards suggesting that DL could (doesn't necessarily meant they would) replace their 732s with the 717.

And lastly:
PHLBOS what are you talking about...

Flaming is for burgers and not the Internet.  Big grin
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: New 717 And 777 Customers...?

Fri Jul 23, 2004 2:06 am

On a slightly different note, what is the status of the rumored SQ 777 order?

773ER and 772LR rumored to have the advantage, announcement expected by end of July-04 or the beginning of August-04. Parallel 7E7/A330-200L announcement expected as well.
I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
flyabr
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RE: New 717 And 777 Customers...?

Fri Jul 23, 2004 2:13 am

it seems to me that airtran wanted a 713 but with transcontinental range...and boeing either wouldn't or couldn't get that out of a 713. i'm still surprised in a way that airtran didn't push for a 713 since i'd think there are some short haul routes where the 712s are too small...
 
D950
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RE: New 717 And 777 Customers...?

Fri Jul 23, 2004 2:22 am

The 717-300 would have been an MD90 with Rolls Royce in lieu of V2500, but Boeing sank the 90 so it could sell 738-9 easier, They replaced an open MD90 order with 738 to DL, as part of the merger.
Resting on your laurels is a synonym for flirting with disaster
 
SafetyDude
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RE: New 717 And 777 Customers...?

Fri Jul 23, 2004 2:24 am

773ER and 772LR rumored to have the advantage, announcement expected by end of July-04 or the beginning of August-04. Parallel 7E7/A330-200L announcement expected as well.
Is there any competition against the 777? Also, with the rumored SQ deposits for 20 7E7s, is there any way that SQ might order 330s in addition to the 7E7, or to supplement the fleet until the 7E7s come?

 Smile
-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
LRGT
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RE: New 717 And 777 Customers...?

Fri Jul 23, 2004 2:25 am

Well, I disagree...the 717-300 WOULD compete with the 737NG...BUT does that really matter??? Boeing makes both (same profit)! If it keeps a 717 operater from talking to Airbus by offering them the obvious solution (717-300) rather than making them pick between a 737NG and A319, wouldn't Boeing want that around; the notion of not being able to make both because they compete with each other is too overrated; right now the market is split 2 ways between the NG's and the A320's...add in an MD-90 (717-300) and now it is split 3 ways, 2 of which are for Boeing. Besides they already have the MD-90 designed and flight tested.

DFWRevolution....If they did decide to bring that a/c back, it would have more than 130 seats in a 2-class configuration since that would only be just 2 rows bigger than a -200! I would assume it would be an MD-90 which seats 164 (12J/152Y) or 172 in all 'Y'. That is significantly bigger than the 717-200.

Also airlines like the 717 because they don't need to sacrafice much capacity to add a comfortable J class rather than all Y (gives the MD-90/717-300 an advantage over the 320). Hardly any 717 are all-Y...that is why Midwest Exp likes them for their all-J service; they would never think of buying a 737. Actually, I don't know of any 717's that are all coach! Hell, WN would probably even have 2-class if they had the 717 instead of the 737!
Don't bring up the NW DC9's unless you have to!
 
flyabr
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RE: New 717 And 777 Customers...?

Fri Jul 23, 2004 2:26 am

seems to me that a 713 would be closer in size to a dc-9-50 and smaller than the md90??
 
LRGT
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RE: New 717 And 777 Customers...?

Fri Jul 23, 2004 2:29 am

The 717-300 would be no larger than a 73G. It would most likely seat 130 in 2-class configuration. It would not compete against the 738.

...in case someone claims that no one said the 717-300 would NOT compete with the 737NG

By the way, the MD-90 did have intercontinental range and would have been perfect for Airtran; I am very surprised they did not push Boeing to make it as the -300. If they did not already have the 737 on their operating certificate from years back, things would be very different.
Don't bring up the NW DC9's unless you have to!
 
LRGT
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RE: New 717 And 777 Customers...?

Fri Jul 23, 2004 2:32 am

seems to me that a 713 would be closer in size to a dc-9-50 and smaller than the md90??

Again, why would they go through the trouble of making the 717 two rows longer (from a DC9-40 size to a DC9-50 size)...that means a LOT of engineering work for something that is nearly the same...when the MD90 ALREADY exhists and has the RANGE too.
Don't bring up the NW DC9's unless you have to!
 
AGrayson514
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RE: New 717 And 777 Customers...?

Fri Jul 23, 2004 2:36 am

I wonder if maybe DL could be thinking about replacing a few of its CRJ's with 717s as well as 732's. I seem to remember some rumblings in DL about over using CRJ's. Seems logical to me, even though the 717 is larger than a crj, larger than a 732 for that matter, it has lower operating costs, and I'm sure that they can be acquired cheaply. As FL showed, CRJ's can be a headache where the 717 is a breeze.

~ Andrew Grayson
Give a little bit...
 
User avatar
PanAm_DC10
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RE: New 717 And 777 Customers...?

Fri Jul 23, 2004 2:42 am

Hope it's not true. But looks like Virgin may not buy 773ER as speculated.

By Andrea Rothman and Rebecca Barr
July 22 (Bloomberg) -- Airbus SAS, the largest maker of
commercial aircraft, expects to win a Virgin Atlantic Airways
Ltd. order for about 20 A340-600 planes worth $4 billion as early
as next week, said Airbus Chief Executive, Noel Forgeard.
``Discussions are very advanced but not completely
concluded,'' said Forgeard in an interview at the Farnborough Air
show. The A340-600, Airbus's biggest plane at 380 seats, has a
list price of $207 million, making a 20-plane order worth $4
billion excluding any discounts.
snip
Boeing Co., which had been talking to Virgin Atlantic about
buying 777s, said those talks have ended. ``We are not engaged in
active discussions with Virgin Atlantic,'' said spokesman Todd
Blecher in a telephone interview.
snip

Looks like Boeing's final offer is in but Airbus appear more confident. Then again, it is just another media report!
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: New 717 And 777 Customers...?

Fri Jul 23, 2004 2:42 am

DFWRevolution....If they did decide to bring that a/c back, it would have more than 130 seats in a 2-class configuration since that would only be just 2 rows bigger than a -200! I would assume it would be an MD-90 which seats 164 (12J/152Y) or 172 in all 'Y'. That is significantly bigger than the 717-200.

No, it would be nothing more than a 20 seat stretch, or roughly 4 seat rows. I'd imagine 1 row J, and 4 rows Y class, for a 130 seat total. I quote-

A 717-300 stretch would have the same range as the current model, he said. It would seat from 20 to 22 more passengers.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/112231_bigger13.shtml

Hell, WN would probably even have 2-class if they had the 717 instead of the 737!

And what in the least makes you think this?

Well, I disagree...the 717-300 WOULD compete with the 737NG...BUT does that really matter??? Boeing makes both (same profit)!

It also means more expenses. Twice the workers to pay, two assembly lines to finance, not to mention Long Beach requires some special circumstances to work around. And, how many MD-90 customers were all that disgruntled about moving to the 737-800?

The A320 and 738 both had commanding leads over the MD-90 before the merger... it was a dying product. The rest of MD line has already met its fate, faithful MD customers are now happy and content Boeing and Airbus customers. The MD-90 is not coming back. The only thing left to do is continue marketing the 717-200, see if the market can support the -100/300, and act accordingly.
--

edited grammar

[Edited 2004-07-22 19:45:12]
I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
PHLBOS
Posts: 6520
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 6:38 am

RE: New 717 And 777 Customers...?

Fri Jul 23, 2004 2:47 am

Again, why would they go through the trouble of making the 717 two rows longer (from a DC9-40 size to a DC9-50 size)...that means a LOT of engineering work for something that is nearly the same...when the MD90 ALREADY exhists and has the RANGE too.

If I'm not mistaken, the 717-200 is actually closer in size to the DC-9-30. As earlier stated, the would-be 717-300 is close to the size of a DC-9-50. I'm not sure how many extra rows the DC-9-50 has over the DC-9-30, but I believe that it's definitely more than two. All the MD-80 variants (except maybe the MD-87) and the MD-90s are longer then the DC-9-50. Also, production of the MD-90 has since been discontinued. At present, the only MDD aircraft being produced is the re-christened 717 formerly known as the MD-95.
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
flyabr
Topic Author
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RE: New 717 And 777 Customers...?

Fri Jul 23, 2004 2:54 am

lrgt,

why? well why does boeing have a 736, 737, 738...739...?

the 712 is more like the dc-9-30 in size and seating...a 713 with about 130 seats makes perfect sense to me. you'd get better seat mile costs and have additional capacity for the short haul. i'm really surprised airtran hasn't gotten boeing to work on a 713. plus, it's not just a trivial act to bring back the 150 seat md90 from the ashes. tooling is gone, etc.
 
PHLBOS
Posts: 6520
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 6:38 am

RE: New 717 And 777 Customers...?

Fri Jul 23, 2004 2:57 am

i'm really surprised airtran hasn't gotten boeing to work on a 713.

Boeing probably responded by directing FL to their already-existing 73G instead of the 713.
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 9305
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

RE: New 717 And 777 Customers...?

Fri Jul 23, 2004 3:01 am

Boeing probably responded by directing FL to their already-existing 73G instead of the 713.

Without extensive redesign, and uprating of the BR715 engine, a 713 would never come close to the range FL needed. The 73G met all of FL's requirements, and probably could be delivered sooner/cheaper than an all new derrivitive.
I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
D950
Posts: 472
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 12:17 am

RE: New 717 And 777 Customers...?

Fri Jul 23, 2004 3:01 am

MD Always had a niche with the MD80-90 series because of the 2-3 seating which theoretically offered more "window and aisle" seating, and Airtran customers have told the ownership through surveys they like it better than the A320's (from Ryanair). Range has always been the downside, even on the 90's.
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kaitak
Posts: 9907
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

RE: New 717 And 777 Customers...?

Fri Jul 23, 2004 3:05 am

Many airlines have been disappointed with the 346; CX and SA, for example - the latter discussed in a very recent thread. SQ may go with the 772LR and dump the 345, so for Airbus, VS is a very important customer and I'm sure they fought tooth and nail to hold on to them.

Delta has just announced plans to push its 777 back to 2009, opening five more slots next year. QF is definitely one possibility for a 777 customer; I don't see QR ordering them. Another possibility for a new operator is Aer Lingus; not a direct acquisition,but via ILFC or GECAS. EI needs to replace its 333s and it is also a potential 7E7-9 customer. However, it needs an aircraft to bridge that gap from 2005 to 2012. Four 772s might do that job.

I see EI going down the high density route - 10 abreast on 777s, with 9 abreast on 7E7s . . .

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