sfilipowicz
Topic Author
Posts: 290
Joined: Wed Jul 17, 2002 3:59 pm

Garuda Stopping Service Amsterdam - Jakarta

Sat Jul 31, 2004 12:19 am

Just read on a Dutch news website that Garuda Indonesia is stopping there
service on the route Amsterdam - Jakarta.
The airline does this route now 4 times a week but they do not make enough profit on it.

From of November they are going to stop.

Great shame to see these beautiful 747's leave AMS.


View Large View Medium

Photo © Steven Filipowicz



Source : http://www.dft.nl/nieuws/6556908/Garuda_verlaat_Nederland.html

[Edited 2004-07-30 17:21:18]
 
KL808
Posts: 1540
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 3:49 am

RE: Garuda Stopping Service Amsterdam - Jakarta

Sat Jul 31, 2004 12:27 am

What a shame.

However, Im still a non believer. Ill believe it when it happens.

This route should be a cash cow for both Garuda and KLM.

drew
AMS-LAX-MNL
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 17869
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Garuda Stopping Service Amsterdam - Jakarta

Sat Jul 31, 2004 12:38 am

"This route should be a cash cow for both Garuda and KLM."

I'm not so sure; I would imagine it's mostly VFR traffic and there is a ton of competition over DXB, SIN, KUL, BKK, etc..
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
keno
Posts: 1809
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 5:46 pm

RE: Garuda Stopping Service Amsterdam - Jakarta

Sat Jul 31, 2004 12:42 am

I guess from November onwards GA will 'surrender' all of their european operations to Malaysia Airlines. GA now codeshare with MH on all KUL-FRa (1x daily) & KUL-LHR (7 out of 18 weekly flights), along with most CGK-KUL, DPS-KUL, SUB-KUL & MES-KUL sectors. Very likely they would want to codeshare on the daily KUL-AMS too once they cease their final european operation.

This present MH itenarary would be the most likely candidate for future GA codeshare :-

Outbound
MH 722 - dep CGK 1830*, arr KUL 2130
MH 016 - dep KUL 2345, arr AMS 0635
daily services
* Sat flight dep CGK 1930

Inbound
MH 017 - dep AMS 1200, arr KUL 0625
MH 723 - dep KUL 0915, arr CGK 1015
daily services



[Edited 2004-07-30 17:54:08]
 
KL808
Posts: 1540
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 3:49 am

RE: Garuda Stopping Service Amsterdam - Jakarta

Sat Jul 31, 2004 12:46 am

Where will GA deploy its B747-400, when AMS leaves the network?

drew
AMS-LAX-MNL
 
northernlights
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 8:13 pm

RE: Garuda Stopping Service Amsterdam - Jakarta

Sat Jul 31, 2004 12:48 am

Just checked Amadeus, As you can see I did a timetable search for November 2004 and for March 2005: GA is still operating on days 2467...

TN15NOVAMSCGK/GA
** AMADEUS - TN ** CGK SOEKARNO HATTA.ID 15NOV04 22NOV04
1 GA 975 6 AMS CGK 2 1430 1040+1 1 19JUN04 25DEC04 744 14:10
2 GA 975 247 AMS CGK 2 1430 1040+1 1 13MAY04 30DEC04 744 14:10

TN25MARAMSCGK/GA
** AMADEUS - TN ** CGK SOEKARNO HATTA.ID 25MAR05 01APR05
1 GA 975 2467 AMS CGK 2 1430 1040+1 1 03FEB05 --- 744 14:10

However, if you ask for the availability of the flights, you will get an availability display untill October. All flights for November and December are displayed as "fully booked" in all the Economy classes, you do not have a single seat available!

If you ask for availability as from January 2005, you do not get any flights displayed anymore for AMS-CGK/GA !!! This could mean that GA indeed pulls out of the Dutch market, which is a big shame because of the important historic and cultural ties between the Netherlands and Indonesia. Don´t forget that 1 out of 18 Dutchmen has Indonesian blood running through his veins! (I can tell: I am one of them, although I live in Iceland).
 
keno
Posts: 1809
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 5:46 pm

RE: Garuda Stopping Service Amsterdam - Jakarta

Sat Jul 31, 2004 12:59 am

which is a big shame because of the important historic and cultural ties between the Netherlands and Indonesia.

Yup it would be a HUGE shame. Unfortunately for aviation industry none of that really matters and profitabily must always come first. Well, it's not the end of the world yet - KLM still ply the route 5x a week.
 
northernlights
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 8:13 pm

RE: Garuda Stopping Service Amsterdam - Jakarta

Sat Jul 31, 2004 1:01 am

It now is also official !!!

GA has announced it on their dutch site: http://www.garuda-indonesia.nl

GARUDA INDONESIA AMSTERDAM VANAF 01 NOVEMBER NIET LANGER OPERATIONEEL
Helaas moeten wij u informeren dat ons management bekend heeft gemaakt dat de vlucht Amsterdam-Jakarta v.v. vanaf 01 november 2004 tot nader order niet langer operationeel zal zijn...

GARUDA INDONESIA AMSTERDAM FROM 01 NOVEMBER NOT MORE OPERATIONAL
We are sorry to nform you that our management has announced that the flight Amsterdam-Jakarta v.v. from 01 november 2004 will not be operated until further notice...
 
Ryanair!!!
Posts: 4127
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 8:55 pm

RE: Garuda Stopping Service Amsterdam - Jakarta

Sat Jul 31, 2004 1:45 am

Now they would have 3 747-400s in surplus because I believe that they are used almost exclusively on the CGK-SIN-AMS flights. Where would they deploy them? Or do they have plans to lease them out?

I hope they would use it to increase capacity between Bali and Australia. I really cannot think of any other route for the 744s to be deployed on.
Welcome to my starry one world alliance, a team in the sky!
 
behramjee
Posts: 5029
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: Garuda Stopping Service Amsterdam - Jakarta

Sat Jul 31, 2004 5:20 am

Routes that the capacity of GAs B 744 can support are :

1. CGK-DPS-SYD/MEL
2. CGK-DPS-NRT
3. CGK-JED (Hajj-Umrah season especially)
4. CGK-DPS-PVG/PEK

If you ask me...these B 744s should be gotten rid off when AMS is struck of its network and instead its largest long haul aircraft should be a 2 class configured B 777-200ER or A 340-300!!!

GA doesnt have any route currently in its network that justifies the consistent use of their B 744s year round.

These 3-4 B 744s that they have should be sold alongwith their ageing B 747-200s to some airline or converted into very useful freighters!!!

OR they should go into an exchange deal with BOEING by placing an order for 6-8 B 772ERs by trading in 3-4 B 744s and paying a little bit extra (balance amount).
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: Garuda Stopping Service Amsterdam - Jakarta

Sat Jul 31, 2004 5:35 am

GA already has 772ERs on order
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
GARUDAROD
Posts: 1150
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 4:39 am

RE: Garuda Stopping Service Amsterdam - Jakarta

Sat Jul 31, 2004 5:48 am


Things must really be bad for this to happen. AMS has always been
the point of focus for European operations for GA. As mentioned before,
there are very long ties between the two countries. It is a point of
National pride as well that there were direct links between AMS & CGK
on the flag carrier. This move now reduces GA to only a Regional carrier,
Asia and Australia. No longer will the "Big Blue Bird of Happiness" grace
the Intercontinenal skies. First the US, then Europe. I wonder if now
the B744 will be on the short list for operations with GA. With only a
regional route network that is currently filled by the A330, another
747 operator may bite the dust.
Cargo doesn't whine, moan, or complain
 
je89_w
Posts: 2070
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 1:29 pm

RE: Garuda Stopping Service Amsterdam - Jakarta

Sat Jul 31, 2004 7:15 am

I'm also pretty surprised GA is pulling out of AMS, especially since, as you all mentioned, culture ties with Indonesia and the Netherlands. I would imagine CGK-SIN-AMS being a pretty popular route in terms of passenger loads.

What a shame.
 
Bicoastal
Posts: 2446
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 1999 5:56 am

RE: Garuda Stopping Service Amsterdam - Jakarta

Sat Jul 31, 2004 7:46 am

Wow, this hurts, culturally, for me. On my mother's side, my grandmother was Indonesian and my grandfather was Dutch. I remember their great stories about life on Java prior to WWII and then during the Japanese occupation. With Garuda leaving Amsterdam, that period of Indonesian colonial history fades further and further away.

[Edited 2004-07-31 00:50:11]
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parisien
Posts: 844
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2000 5:04 am

RE: Garuda Stopping Service Amsterdam - Jakarta

Sat Jul 31, 2004 7:53 am

wow what a surprise. I read in the Jakarta Post yesterday or the day before that GA is planning to fly to New York as early as next month !!!!!! Thinking thus that they are expanding their international network....or would european routes be served by codeshare with MH and GA returns with their own aircrafts to the US...but why NYC ?
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4095
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: Garuda Stopping Service Amsterdam - Jakarta

Sat Jul 31, 2004 12:15 pm

This move was long in the cards. Europe hasn't been working for years for Garuda, as no high-yield traffic could be attracted because of the lack of regular frequencies. Last year, both the DPS-BKK-LGW and DPS-SIN-FRa routes were given up for the same reason in favor of a code-share operation with partner Malaysian. The same will likely happen to the Amsterdam operation.

As for the B744 ops, Garuda is currently deploying the aircraft on the CGK-JED/RUH/DMM routes, and I would expect the freed up capacity to be used on the CGK-NRT-DPS triangle. All of these flights warrant the use of high density equipment.

As for the CGK-AMS route, KLM serves this route daily, not 5 times weekly as stated somewhere above. KLM is planning to increase this number to 8 weekly with the start of the winter operations.

 
sleak76
Posts: 306
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2000 11:17 pm

RE: Garuda Stopping Service Amsterdam - Jakarta

Sat Jul 31, 2004 12:29 pm

This route should be a cash cow for both Garuda and KLM

Guess the AMS route is not as 'cash cow' as one thinks.
Kuwait Airways has also decided to drop their AMS routing (KWI-AMS-ORD) due to low yields.

Cheers.
'Place your ad here'. Only $9.95 per post made.
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4095
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: Garuda Stopping Service Amsterdam - Jakarta

Sat Jul 31, 2004 12:58 pm

I read in the Jakarta Post yesterday or the day before that GA is planning to fly to New York as early as next month !!!!!!

I know it was in the Jakarta Post, but I wouldn't count on seeing any Garuda metal in New York, or any other city in the US for that matter, any time soon. The comments about the route were made by the Indonesian transport minister on the occasion of the signing of an Open Skies Agreement with the US.

It is my understanding that some deal is in the making between Garuda and Northwest on some type of joint operation between the US and Jakarta and Denpasar/Bali. I would expect Northwest to code share on Garuda's Tokyo flights and Garuda to code-share on some Northwest-operated Tokyo-US flights, likely to be Los Angeles and New York. So, while technically there'll be GA codes in New York, not a single GA plane will be anywhere near.

Incidentally, a cooperation between Garuda and Northwest would bring Garuda another step closed to the SkyTeam alliance. Garuda extensively cooperates with Malaysia Airlines between Indonesia and Kuala Lumpur and points beyond. A sign of a future Garuda membership maybe?

 
keno
Posts: 1809
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 5:46 pm

RE: Garuda Stopping Service Amsterdam - Jakarta

Sat Jul 31, 2004 2:29 pm

KLM serves this route daily, not 5 times weekly

My mistake. KLM still serve CGK daily. However, both KLM.com and Amadeus show only 5x weekly starting November 1st. All flights will then make that 1 stop in KUL rather than SIN with the new frequency.
 
keno
Posts: 1809
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 5:46 pm

RE: Garuda Stopping Service Amsterdam - Jakarta

Sat Jul 31, 2004 2:49 pm


View Large View Medium

Photo © Gabor Kerekes
View Large View Medium

Photo © Ulrich F.HOPPE



Just a trip down memory lane  Smile I have a copy of their 1990 in flight magazine.
They served the following european routes back then :-

AUH-CAI-AMS
AUH-FRa-AMS
AUH-ZRH-AMS
AUH-CDG-AMS
AUH-VIE-AMS
AUH-FCO-AMS
AUH-FCO-LGW
AUH-BRU-LGW

and the famous
CGK-DPS-BIK-HNL-LAX

[Edited 2004-07-31 07:50:45]
 
behramjee
Posts: 5029
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: Garuda Stopping Service Amsterdam - Jakarta

Sat Jul 31, 2004 3:19 pm

The high yield traffic bound to and from CGK to Europe-USA is usually picked up by KLM because it has a well reputed BRAND NAME worldwide and especially with the high yield J class passenger...GARUDA unfortunately does not and thats why KLM does well from CGK to AMS and GA doesnt.

Indonesia was an ex DUTCH colony hence KLM always maintaining a decent presence in the local market in Indonesia.

As for KU (Kuwait Airways) is dropping the following routes very very soon :

1. AMS
2. SIN
3. Larnaca

CGK flights will now be NONSTOP from KWI as the route does well for them.

KLM does well from KWI because it can carry a lot of 6th freedom traffic via AMS to anywhere in EU-UK and USA-CAN.

KU choose AMS mainly because it had a friendly open skies policy for transatlantic routes served by a third carrier.

PIA too used to fly AMS-JFK-AMS at one point in the 1990s with B 747-200s.
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4095
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: Garuda Stopping Service Amsterdam - Jakarta

Sat Jul 31, 2004 3:49 pm

KLM still serve CGK daily. However, both KLM.com and Amadeus show only 5x weekly starting November 1st. All flights will then make that 1 stop in KUL rather than SIN with the new frequency.

Last thing I heard about this is that, apart from the 5 weekly AMS-KUL-CGK rotations, KLM would still uphold the CGK-tag to the SIN flights 3 times weekly, making service to Jakarta 8 times weekly. This info is, however, a month old, and thing could have changed since. Also, it is still not clear to me whether Air France will indeed give up its own Jakarta flights.

 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4095
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: Garuda Stopping Service Amsterdam - Jakarta

Sat Jul 31, 2004 5:21 pm

I cleared up a couple of things, and it seems that KLM is indeed reducing its presence at Jakarta from daily flights to 5 weekly operations. Flights will be routed through Kuala Lumpur rather than Jakarta. At the same time, Air France withdrawing from the Paris-Jakarta route, with its flights now terminating in Singapore.

It will be interesting to see whether Garuda's decision to withdraw from the Jakarta-Amsterdam route, will affect KLM's decision to downgrade Jakarta to 5 weekly only. KLM might very well decide to retain its daily flights given Garuda's move.

This move comes nevertheless as another blow to Jakarta. It has lost all of Garuda's European traffic in the past as well as British Airways to London (6 weekly CGK-KUL-LHR), Air France to Paris (6 and then 3 weekly CGK-SIN-CDG) and Swissair to Zurich (3 weekly CGK-SIN-ZRH). After KLM's reduction, only Lufthansa will be left with daily flights to Frankfurt, via Singapore.

 
B-HOP
Posts: 790
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 8:09 pm

RE: Garuda Stopping Service Amsterdam - Jakarta

Sat Jul 31, 2004 8:08 pm

What is a shame, I thought they talked about getting an extra 744 not long ago. But downsizing at least helped their profitability.
Live life to max!!!
 
GARUDAROD
Posts: 1150
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 4:39 am

RE: Garuda Stopping Service Amsterdam - Jakarta

Sun Aug 01, 2004 11:29 am


HB-IWC,

Garuda had very close ties to NW before. In the 90's when they were
still serving LAX, they were part of a tri-lateral alliance with NW & KL.
There was a lot of talk at that time about having a logo that had all
three airlines in it, like the KL/NW one. GA moved all of their cargo operations at LAX over to NW as a part of that and the plan was to move all of the
ground handling ops as well. NW was going to code share on GA's LAX/DPS/
CGK flights and Ga would code share on NW's LAX/NRT and LAX/KIX flights.
Unfortunately the Asian economic crisis wiped all of that out and eventually
ended up in GA ceasing operations to the U.S.
Cargo doesn't whine, moan, or complain
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4095
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: Garuda Stopping Service Amsterdam - Jakarta

Sun Aug 01, 2004 11:41 am

Well, apparently a renewed cooperation is imminent. Last thing I'ver heard about is that Northwest would put its code on Garuda's Jakarta-Tokyo service, whilst Garuda would code-share on some of Northwest's Tokyo-US flights, probably including Los Angeles and Tokyo. I do not see that happening, however, within Garuda's current Tokyo operation, as flight schedules between Garuda and Northwest are less than perfectly adjusted.

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