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quickmover
Topic Author
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Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 4:28 am

Expansion For Airtran

Tue Aug 03, 2004 3:21 am

Has anyone heard what existing FL station will expand later in the year? They said no new cities.

From the conference call:

deliveries
3 more 717s before year end
6 more 737s before year end

leaving the fleet
3 Ryan air jets to be parked and 1 more rj.

That leaves 5 or 6 airliners of net additional capacity before years end. They have to fly them somewhere. Not to mention they are pulling out of GSO and TLH in early September. Capacity is being reallocated somewhere.
 
N317AS
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Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 1:25 pm

RE: Expansion For Airtran

Tue Aug 03, 2004 3:23 am

I would hope SEA just to give us something new. I don't think that will happen though.
Some people are like Slinkies. They bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
 
cumulonimbus
Posts: 508
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RE: Expansion For Airtran

Tue Aug 03, 2004 3:24 am


I have Heard BWI is Their next Big project. I have reason to belive this because they have just taking over some Us Airways Check in Areas.
 
quickmover
Topic Author
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RE: Expansion For Airtran

Tue Aug 03, 2004 3:25 am

Maybe DFW? How are the loads down there?
 
gr8slvrflt
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RE: Expansion For Airtran

Tue Aug 03, 2004 3:36 am

I heard somewhere, maybe here, that AirTran wants to maximize productivity by taking every station up to 7 or 8 flights a day. I would think more nonstops from the smaller cities to Florida, BWI, DFW, PHL and CAK are likely. I heard we're going up to 4 gates at PHF. There seems to be room for growth at BOS as well with three gates now. MKE apparently has not worked out; they currently only have 4 flights a day: 3 to ATL and 1 to TPA.
I work for Southwest, but the views expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Southwest.
 
quickmover
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RE: Expansion For Airtran

Tue Aug 03, 2004 3:48 am

"I heard somewhere, maybe here, that AirTran wants to maximize productivity by taking every station up to 7 or 8 flights a day. I would think more nonstops from the smaller cities to Florida, BWI, DFW, PHL and CAK are likely. I heard we're going up to 4 gates at PHF. There seems to be room for growth at BOS as well with three gates now. MKE apparently has not worked out; they currently only have 4 flights a day: 3 to ATL and 1 to TPA"

Well that makes sense. I've always thought it would be hard to make money in a city with only 2 or 3 flights a day. RIC was supposed to be on the radar for WN, but that seems to have been pushed back in lieu of PHL. I bet PHF draws some RIC traffic.
 
blhp68
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RE: Expansion For Airtran

Tue Aug 03, 2004 4:04 am

I hope that FL starts some N/S from MCI to southern Florida. Currently there are no carriers that offer N/S from MCI to southern Florida. Seems like it could be a profitable route, even though the yields are low.
 
quickmover
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RE: Expansion For Airtran

Tue Aug 03, 2004 4:13 am

Something must be going right in MCI. I noticed they have gone from 3 to 4 dailys to ATL. I noticed on the conference call that they were not exuberant about LAX. They basically said that they were trying to build a network and LAX was a part of that. They said that once they started flying their own 737s on this route that it would be close to breakeven. I sense that loads are not the problem, but the yields and costs are for now. I'm wondering if they moved the frequency of ATL-LAX up to 4 or 5 instead of 2, the yields might improve by drawing more business passengers.
 
Kohflot
Posts: 941
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 1999 5:31 am

RE: Expansion For Airtran

Tue Aug 03, 2004 4:51 am

I wouldn't be shocked to see IAD-MCO or IAD-TPA.
Ask why..
 
quickmover
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RE: Expansion For Airtran

Tue Aug 03, 2004 4:55 am

"I have Heard BWI is Their next Big project. I have reason to belive this because they have just taking over some Us Airways Check in Areas. "

Do we have access to more gates at BWI? Are there any empty gates from USAir?

 
cumulonimbus
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RE: Expansion For Airtran

Tue Aug 03, 2004 5:02 am


Quickmover. I do not Know, but that is what I have heard. Only time will tell.
 
elcapi1980
Posts: 204
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RE: Expansion For Airtran

Tue Aug 03, 2004 5:07 am

they should go to phoenix... there is a lot of traffic going on betwen these two cities......in addition they should try another international route....SDQ-SJU-MBJ among others
I love you barranquilla!!!!!
 
quickmover
Topic Author
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RE: Expansion For Airtran

Tue Aug 03, 2004 5:11 am

cumulonimbus,

I just checked the FL website and it looks like FL has 4 gates and 31 departures. They could squeeze in another flight or two, but it looks like they need more gates for any major expansion.

quick
 
jlp123
Posts: 53
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RE: Expansion For Airtran

Tue Aug 03, 2004 5:14 am

I think that FL has plenty of opportunities from BWI and DFW that they can exploit without adding new cities. I'd like to see the following from BWI:

Baltimore
FNT 2X
CAK 3X
MSP 2X
LAS 2X
LAX 2X
SFO 2X
EWR 5X
SAV 1X

I know that CO is very competitive from EWR, but without addition LGA slots this is the best NYC airport to expand from. The BWI-EWR route could be used mainly for connecting service from the south and midwest.
 
srbmod
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RE: Expansion For Airtran

Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:50 am

I noticed on the conference call that they were not exuberant about LAX. They basically said that they were trying to build a network and LAX was a part of that. They said that once they started flying their own 737s on this route that it would be close to breakeven. I sense that loads are not the problem, but the yields and costs are for now. I'm wondering if they moved the frequency of ATL-LAX up to 4 or 5 instead of 2, the yields might improve by drawing more business passengers.

The entire LAX situation has been ongoing since last year. The flights would be making money (or at least break even) if they were not using Ryan Int'l. Of the three routes Ryan is operating for them, only LAS has had the most success (I flew on them to Vegas on Easter Sunday, and there was maybe 1 seat open on the entire a/c.) for them. LAX and SFO have not had the loads they expected (i.e., not high enough load factors to pay Ryan Int'l and have extra $$$ afterwards), and I think that does have to do with the number of flights to those cities. Between LAS, LAX, and SFO, I think they'll add more ATL-LAS flights first, as I think an afternoon flight would be pretty popular. Have it leave between say 1-2:30 pm, which would get the pax there in the middle of the afternoon, pretty close to the check in time at most hotels. An additional LAX flight in the midday might attract more pax than the current morning and evening flights do, but then again compare Delta to AirTran on this route. Delta can get you into three LA area airports (LAX, ONT, and SNA) while AirTran's just @ LAX, and at better times than FL. One way to be sure if any additional ATL-LAX flights are in the cards would be to see how many ATL-DFW pax are continuing on the DFW-LAX flight (this is one of the reasons for the increase in DFW-LAS flights, because a number of pax on the ATL-DFW flight were continuing onto the DFW-LAS flight).
 
717-200
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RE: Expansion For Airtran

Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:55 am

N317AS,

Don't be pessimistic about FL not coming to SEA. A good source I know
which shall remain nameless says SEA will be coming soon for AirTran.
72S 733 734 735 73G 738 742 752 763 E190 M82 M83
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: Expansion For Airtran

Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:59 am

When I was checking in at BWI for a flight to ROC in May, the ticket agent told me that AirTran planned to add ROC-BOS later this year. Take that rumor for what it's worth, obviously, but it's a route that would make sense. ROC-BOS supported multiple narrowbodies on AL and UR in the '80s, and it's been in the dumps with 3 US ERJ's due to fares the past few years. Only an LCC could revive that route to its former strength. Same for BUF-BOS. Two daily 717's on both routes would probably perform well.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
N1120A
Posts: 26574
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Expansion For Airtran

Tue Aug 03, 2004 7:00 am

It will be nice to see a 717 at LAX for the DFW flight. I think that FL needs to add flights if they are to make money on the LAX-ATL route, simply because DL offers more than 20 flights a day in the area. That is why B6 got out so quick.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
quickmover
Topic Author
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RE: Expansion For Airtran

Tue Aug 03, 2004 7:04 am

Have the DFW flights been full? Maybe DFW-TPA, DFW-BOS, or DFW-PHF.
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: Expansion For Airtran

Tue Aug 03, 2004 7:11 am

Four FL gates at PHF? I was last at Newport News 18 months ago, but I believe there were 5 gates at the entire airport (1+2 being FL 717 gates, if I'm not mistaken, 3 a US Airways regional parking spot, 4 a Delta regional parking spot, and 5 a mainline gate without either a jetway or any use)...has there been construction at the airport since I last was there?
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
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vatveng
Posts: 1259
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RE: Expansion For Airtran

Tue Aug 03, 2004 7:22 am

I heard we're going up to 4 gates at PHF

Wow, 4 gates? They'd have to build 2 more jetways, they currently only have 2. I love the new check-in area at PHF, by the way... no longer shoehorned in between Piedmont and ASA, but plenty of room to spread out, and room to grow before bumping into ASA. And a beautiful painting of the 717 on the back wall. Nice!

I've wished for this before, I'll wish again: PHF-DFW. About half my family lives in Fort Worth (the other half here in Virginia). American does RIC-DFW 3X daily, and ORF-DFW 3X daily, I'm sure AirTran could fill a 717 with some of those passengers who are paying $1312.70 RT  Wow! to AA.
 
LRGT
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A310: Ugly Duckling?

Tue Aug 03, 2004 7:32 am

...If anyone from Airtran is reading this thread, I am UTTERLY SHOCKED that there are no real flights from EWR except to ATL.

EWR/PBI x2/day
EWR/FLL x3
EWR/MIA x1

...all should have been started a long time ago.
Don't bring up the NW DC9's unless you have to!
 
airstatdfw
Posts: 377
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RE: Expansion For Airtran

Tue Aug 03, 2004 7:42 am

I hope they add some more cities out of DFW. They have 2 gates that they only use for RON and the early morning flights out, they sub lease them to American Eagle during the day. Hope to see DFW-SFO, DFW-FLL, DFW-MDW, DFW-DEN, DFW-BOS, DFW-SEA, DFW-CUN, DFW-PHL. They have gate space and there are still some gates left.

AirStatDFW
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Expansion For Airtran

Tue Aug 03, 2004 7:45 am

Anyone see any new possible destinations from RDU? They only serve RDU-ATL competing with DL. I would like to hear some new destinations from here...
Aiming High and going far..
 
pgh234
Posts: 785
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 12:48 pm

RE: Expansion For Airtran

Tue Aug 03, 2004 7:50 am

As stated in my thread a few days ago...PIT-ATL goes from 4xdaily to 6xdaily in early October

pgh234
 
quickmover
Topic Author
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RE: Expansion For Airtran

Tue Aug 03, 2004 8:26 am

Looks like alot of opportunity on the horizon if DL pulls down DFW and USAir pulling down PIT. $1370 RIC-DFW? Definitely time for PHF-DFW. PHL-DFW makes alot of sense because of the Wright amendment that keeps WN out of the loop. They said on the conference call that they would rate DFW a "B". That sounds like everything must be doing fairly well, with a blemish here and there. I still think that as DFW builds critical mass and offers more and more nonstops, they will see alot more o/d loyalty built. Going with just 1 or 2 dailys usually will bring mostly leisure passengers. The business passengers wants some frequency. I'm not saying they need 15-20 dailys to major destinations, but 3-5 would be an improvement.
 
Piedmontfan
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RE: Expansion For Airtran

Tue Aug 03, 2004 9:50 am

It'd be nice to see Air Tran come to CLT. Indy Air starts here in Oct with 8 daily flights to IAD.
Piedmont Airlines...how I miss them
 
ramerinianair
Posts: 1452
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 6:03 am

RE: Expansion For Airtran

Tue Aug 03, 2004 10:02 am

I heard that they weren't going to add any more cities for another at least 6-8 months. They are going to focus on connecting the dots(and hopefully analyzing where they can make more profit with their planes like pulling out of TLH). They have more Boein A/C now but less RJs and less Ryan Air and Miami air. They will replace the A/C leaving with what they are recieving now. They also may add frequencies. This doesn't mean they cannot start new service, it just means the new service will be between two cities already served by the carrier. I think the hold on expansion and review of profits isw a great idea. Good for FL.
-S.R.
P.S. My source is Joe Leonard
W N = my Worst Nightmare!!!!!
 
Midway2AirTran
Posts: 847
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RE: Expansion For Airtran

Tue Aug 03, 2004 10:18 am

ERJ170,
When I was working at RDU, there had been constant chatter about us getting RDU-MCO and or a northbound route due to the high amount of traffic we took that go to ATL to go northbound. It hasn't happened in over a year of that chatter, but now with some consolidation of the route system, maybe it will happen. Personally I would love to see how an FL RDU-DFW would do.
"Life is short, but your delay in ATL is not."
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Expansion For Airtran

Tue Aug 03, 2004 10:35 am

Well, it just seems with all the expansions going on, AirTran hasn't really done a lot with RDU.. I would personally love to see AirTran do at least 2 dailies to TPA and BWI ... I believe they would do particularily well. I mean, if they are going to be in BWI, they are going to have to compete with WN at some point.
Aiming High and going far..
 
boeingpride800
Posts: 391
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 10:05 am

RE: Expansion For Airtran

Tue Aug 03, 2004 10:50 am

Maybe AirTran will start service in Syracuse (SYR) again.
 
lat41
Posts: 643
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 12:23 pm

RE: Expansion For Airtran

Tue Aug 03, 2004 1:48 pm

If there was somewhere to put them, Airtran would clean up on PVD/ATL.
DL operated 5 loaded flights per day and in Winter mostly 757's and even 767-300s at peak times. They own the show and straight Y fares and even some excursion fares are comically expensive. It's a route just waiting for competition. However there is some overlap and they might not want to compete with their own BOS operation up North.
 
744
Posts: 381
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2001 9:21 am

RE: Expansion For Airtran

Tue Aug 03, 2004 2:44 pm

FL might have 3 flights to SFO operated by 737's rather than Ryan Air A320's.
 
Lakini1102
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2003 11:46 am

RE: Expansion For Airtran

Tue Aug 03, 2004 3:35 pm

I'm really hoping that AirTran starts PHL-DFW sometime in the near future, I think it would be the perfect addition to their already strong PHL service.

As for an expansion westward... I have a feeling PHX and SEA will be coming soon.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 9043
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RE: Expansion For Airtran

Tue Aug 03, 2004 3:56 pm

DFW is an obvious place to expand if Delta pulls out.

LGA-DFW is an obvious route to follow DFW-LAX with, although AA would consider that a declaration of war.

Another problem with ATL-LAX is that on a flight of that length, some kind of food and some kind of IFE is essential. Maybe the XM will be good enough. Maybe not.

Best,

Bill
 
sebwhite
Posts: 390
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 11:35 pm

RE: Expansion For Airtran

Tue Aug 03, 2004 8:29 pm

My bets are on ROC/BUF-BOS
 
DTWINTLFLYER
Posts: 293
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RE: Expansion For Airtran

Tue Aug 03, 2004 8:53 pm

AirTran Airways Announces New Nonstop Service Between Dallas/Ft. Worth and Ft. Lauderdale
Tuesday August 3, 7:46 am ET
Service Begins December 7, 2004


ORLANDO, Fla., Aug. 3 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- AirTran Airways, a subsidiary of AirTran Holdings, Inc. (NYSE: AAI - News), today announced it will begin new nonstop service between Dallas/Ft. Worth International Airport and Ft. Lauderdale/Hollywood International Airport. The new nonstop flights will begin December 7, 2004.
"This is a popular route for both business and leisure travelers," said Kevin Healy, vice president of planning and sales for AirTran Airways. "We are confident our customers will take advantage of our great service and affordable fares on this new nonstop route." AirTran Airways also currently offers nonstop service between Dallas and Atlanta, Baltimore, Las Vegas, Los Angeles and Orlando. Listed below are the new nonstop flights beginning December 7, 2004:

Dallas/Ft. Worth - Ft. Lauderdale

Flight Number Departs Arrives Frequency
760 5:10 p.m. 8:55 p.m. Daily


Ft. Lauderdale - Dallas/Ft. Worth

Flight Number Departs Arrives Frequency
759 2:35 p.m. 4:30 p.m. Daily


AirTran Airways is one of America's largest low-fare airlines -- employing more than 5,800 friendly, professional Crew Members and operating over 500 flights a day to 45 destinations. The airline's hub is at Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport, the world's busiest airport by passenger volume, where it is the second largest carrier. AirTran Airways, a subsidiary of AirTran Holdings (NYSE: AAI - News), is the world's largest operator of the Boeing 717 and has America's youngest all-Boeing fleet. The airline recently added the Boeing 737-700 aircraft, one of the most fuel efficient and environmentally friendly aircraft flying today, to its fleet. For reservations or more information, visit http://www.airtran.com (America Online Keyword: AirTran).

 
PBITran
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 10:55 am

RE: Expansion For Airtran

Tue Aug 03, 2004 10:24 pm

...If anyone from Airtran is reading this thread, I am UTTERLY SHOCKED that there are no real flights from EWR except to ATL.

EWR/PBI x2/day
EWR/FLL x3
EWR/MIA x1

...all should have been started a long time ago.


PBI only has 3 flights to the hub, why would we have 2 to EWR. a n/s to PHL was bad enough, we are getting a through flt to EWR in Sep. to go with the through flt to LGA.. thats good enough.
 
N737Af
Posts: 46
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2004 6:00 am

RE: Expansion For Airtran

Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:46 am

Why did Milwaukee NOT work out.

I'm guessing that had something to do with NW's "focus" on the Chicago suburb?

Or are people still going to ORD and MDW for "lower" fares.

Andrew
Continental 450, contact Departure and have a Good Evening.
 
toltommy
Posts: 2790
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:04 am

RE: Expansion For Airtran

Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:57 am

PBItran -

I'm not surprised at all that there isn't more Florida service from EWR. Look at CO's schedules into those markets, and you'll see why.

I take it you are at PBI? Say Hi to Jamie (who xferred from CAK for me).
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