Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
DeltaAir
Topic Author
Posts: 1061
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 4:41 am

American Considering A-340-500, Confirmed!

Wed Feb 23, 2000 6:12 am

Rolls Royce's Sir Ralph Robbins confirmed that both Airbus and Rolls have been discussing the A340-500 with American Airlines, after that airline complained about the GE engine on the 777X. American is urging Boeing to change its decision, or else it will lead to a larger loss.
 
747-600X
Posts: 2553
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2000 3:11 am

RE: American Considering A-340-500, Confirmed!

Wed Feb 23, 2000 6:16 am

I think American would be wise to go with the 340-500, not to mention it'd look pretty neat to see a 4-engine back in American's fleet.
 
CannedSpam
Posts: 449
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2000 8:18 am

RE: American Considering A-340-500, Confirmed!

Wed Feb 23, 2000 6:51 am

I am sure that AA is only talking to Airbus in order to sway Boeing to supply RR engines on the 777X ,which AA surely likes better! This is the extent of AA considering the A340-500. I see it as only a negotiating point between AA and Boeing to scare Boeing to submit to AA's desires.
 
deltairlines
Posts: 7038
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 4:47 am

RE: American Considering A-340-500, Confirmed!

Wed Feb 23, 2000 7:15 am

American is only doing this so they can get it their way (RR). Personally, I think the RR is a lot better than GE.

Jeff
 
Guest

RE: American Considering A-340-500, Confirmed!

Wed Feb 23, 2000 8:41 am

Nice try AA.

Boeing can't, won't, and shouldn't change the GE exclusivity deal.

Why would any of you "prefer" RR engines? Are you line mechanics or what?

DeltaAir: another questionable post from you. Tsk tsk. Source please???
 
DeltaAir
Topic Author
Posts: 1061
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 4:41 am

RE: American Considering A-340-500, Confirmed!

Wed Feb 23, 2000 8:44 am

Another questionable post? Those who don't put out shouldn't complain, just kidding.

Aeroworld.Net is the source
 
DC10GUY
Posts: 2590
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 5:52 am

RE: American Considering A-340-500, Confirmed!

Wed Feb 23, 2000 9:18 am

i'm not a big airbus fan , but i thought the 340 had cfm's ???
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
Guest

Boeing Should Listen To Customers:offer PW And RR!

Wed Feb 23, 2000 10:09 am

Boeing should change the GE exclusivity deal. Had they offered an upgrade of the Trent or the PW4000, the 777X would have been ordered by now. American and United would have been certain customers. Even British Airways (the GE90 launch customer) thinks the decision of exclusivity is wrong. And it is. The GE90 has been a first class FLOP! Unlike its predescessor the CF6, which has been a great success, the GE90 has sold horribly.

Only 23% of 777s in service are powered by GE90s. 46% of those in service are powered by PW4000s. Greater than 30% are powered by RR-- these figures are not exact but are rounded and fairly accurate for purposes of general comparisson.

PW and Rolls-Royce have made the clearly superior powerplants for this aircraft, as evidenced by there overwhelming customer preference. The GE90 looks better on paper, but in service its disadvantages clearly overwhelm its advantages.

Out of 5 reliability figures the GE90 is worst in all but one: dispatch reliability, where it is the best. 80% of the time the GE90 is the worst choice in terms of measured reliability standards.

Its time to stop sleeping with GE and wake up. Customers want Rolls Royce and Pratt and Whitney. I think you need to gain a little less bias before you talk. You have nothing to back up any of the praise you have for GE.
 
WorldTraveller
Posts: 594
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 1999 3:47 am

RE: Dear KLM 777

Wed Feb 23, 2000 10:33 am

Hi,

dear KLM 777 (may your dream with that name come true)   :

"Boeing can't, won't, and shouldn't change the GE exclusivity deal."

I think the future will prove that you're three times wrong with this statement.

However, I think AA won't order the A340's, I believe that they just want to pressure Boeing with that.
The A340 would not be very economical for AA due to crew training and maintenance (I mean if they don't want to outsource that).

Regards


 
Guest

RE: Pratt

Wed Feb 23, 2000 10:40 am

Well, you deserve some credit. You almost got away with it...better luck next time.

Why do you feel that simply because there are more engines of a given type, that type is inherently better or more capable. I am of course referring to your precious PRATT whom it seems control you not only from 9 to 5, but every other waking moment in your life too.

Who is the Number 1 operator of 777 aircraft in the world today? United Airlines. Its no secret that UA will have nothing to do (maybe someone can explain why) with an engine unless it has PRATT PRATT PRATT and that little eagle all over it. The same is true of major Asian players who have purchased the 777, notably Japan Airlines, ANA, and Korean Air. So right there 50% of your potential market is lost to other manufacturers.

There are a littany of reasons for the selection of alternative powerplants: politics, the unproven technology of the GE engine, etc. Compare the GE Engine to the RB 211 for example....I'd say they did remarkably well and the transistion to airline service was nearly flawless.

Of course that is not the point. This is. Did either PW or RR take any share of the risks in developing new engine technology? No. SO WHY SHOULD BOEING LET THEM ONBOARD NOW!?? The 777X is going to have some tough competition ala 340NG so they need to keep the costs down as much as possible. The GE90 series is ready here now. PW and RR are not.

What "relaibilty" figures are you talking about? And don't try to sweep operational reliability under the carpet like it is a non-issue! Why not back up your arguments with factual evidence and a source instead of the company line?

>>>I think you need to gain a little less bias before you talk. You have
nothing to back up any of the praise you have for GE<<<

Do you live in a glass house or what??

Its easy to see why you'll never be anything more than a scut boy down at the Pratt factory. You clearly don't have what it takes.
 
Guest

RE: American Considering A-340-500, Confirmed!

Wed Feb 23, 2000 11:07 am

I'm gald someone else has confirmed AA's interest in the A340-500. When I posted this last week everyone said I was mad for even considering AA would buy Airbus 
"AA is a Boeing airline"
"AA is just doing this to bargain with Boeing etc"

KLM 777, you're right, none of the other engine makers contributed to the 777X's cost, which was probably the overriding reason the GE90 became exclusive for the 777X.

However, The selection of the GE90 as sole powerplant does fly in the face of Boeing's prime philosophy in the 777 programme ie "Working Together" - giving the customer what it wants;
(1) The GE90 is the least popular powerplant on the 777-200
(2) No airline has ordered the GE90 for the 777-300
(3) I'd say both the GE90 and PW4000 on the 773 have had their share of problems (I think KAL's 773s were delayed due to PW4000 problems)

The airlines mainly appear to object to the GE90 because most of them have built their fleets around other engines, in the expectation they could continue the onj the 777X with similar engines. They are reluctant to introduce a new engine, plus several important customers have definate preferences (UA for PW, CX for RR) which doesn't help.

The issue is Airbus was always going to have an exclusive engine on the A340 (CFM on 2/300s, RR on 5/600s) and airlines accept this is the best engine for the job - should that be best engine financially for Airbus!?!?! Anyway, Boeing did the same thing but because at the 777's outset it gave it's customers the idea they'd have an engine choice they were upset!

BTW, the 777X would always have had just one engine because in the final negotiations, PW wanted exclusivity, GE wanted exclusivity. RR didn't - but both PW and GE would have withdrawn if another engine was selected besides theirs. So, even if RR/GE or RR/PW engines were selected together, RR would have had de facto exclusivity because the other manufacturer would have withdrawn!

Regards
James
(I don't work for Boeing/Airbus/RR/PW/GE)
 
Guest

RE: Pratt

Wed Feb 23, 2000 11:14 am


"Who is the Number 1 operator of 777 aircraft in the world today? United
Airlines. Its no secret that UA will have nothing to do (maybe someone
can explain why) with an engine unless it has PRATT PRATT PRATT and that
little eagle all over it. The same is true of major Asian players who
have purchased the 777, notably Japan Airlines, ANA, and Korean Air. So
right there 50% of your potential market is lost to other manufacturers. "

Lesson #1 in marketing-- if possible you give the consumer what they desire. It's possible. Why not? Take GE's money and run, screw the airlines who worked with you to make the 777 a reality.

All Nippon is a GE customer much more than a Pratt customer. Their fleet of 767s and 747s are all GE powered. Not PW, they shouldn't be considered a Pratt customer at all.

Japan Airways selected the CF6-80 over the PW4000 for their large order of Boeing 747-400s. Again PW had to battle to get them back.

United-- glad to have them on board.

I'm not giving you any company line, I challenge you to find any literature from RR or PW that says anything like what I've said.

The GE90 isn't ready here and now. I don't see a GE90-115B much the same as I don't see a Trent 8110 or a PW4110 sitting around at a test center. RR and PW would have offered money, if they knew that was what they were dealing with. Unfortunatly PW and RR were confident enough with their engines they they didn't demand a sole-source deal. Before PW and RR could match the deal Boeing anounced they no longer were seeking competition. It's no prize to buy victory in competition. I give Rolls Royce tremendous praise for not paying Airbus the way Ge has to buy off Boeing.

Not only that GE is the slowest manufacturers in making new engines. In the 1980's their successor to the CF6 continuously blew up on test stands. It was later cancelled. The only new engine they've made in 20 years has been the GE90. RR has made the RB211-535, the Trent 500, 700,800, and the planned 900. Pw has unveiled the PW2000, the PW4000, the PW6000, the PW8000, the JT8D-200, and together with RR the V2500.
That's 11 engines to GE's ONE engine. Who's better at bringing engines to service? It can't be GE, they never come out w/ anything new.

I don't want to make this a pissing contest. You obviously attack anyone who doesn't like GE, it's obvious, you attacked Tedski-- regardless of whether you feel anyone deserves it or not, you attack anyone and everyone who dislikes GE. I don't dislike GE, they make fine engines. But you, sir, if you are even old enough to be called that, need to get over it. END IT NOW, DON'T RESPOND IT HAS BEEN PROVEN THAT THIS CANNOT BE DISCUSSED CIVILLY.
 
LH423
Posts: 5924
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 6:27 am

RE: American Considering A-340-500, Confirmed!

Wed Feb 23, 2000 12:01 pm

Basically it's like this:
Big company (which could easily absorb the costs of having an un-necessary engine) doesn't want to be told by a company to do this or do nothing, especially when that company is usually the one taking orders, and will go out to all lengths to put that company in place This whole A340 is just to blow smoke up Boeing's ass for giving the airlines an ultimatum. When the president of McDD went to C.R. Smith of American Airlines with the DC-10 proposal, and told him this was the price and there was NO negotiation, old CR showed him the door as quickly as he came in. American seriously was about to buy the L-1011, but RR (exclusivity) woes forced AA to go to the DC-10. So I think as soon as Boeing gets it's act in gear, they will realize that they will lose many customers, if they don't than we will see the A340-500 order book growing, and possibly American Airlines in there.

LH423
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 
hmmmm...
Posts: 1967
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 8:32 am

RE: American Considering A-340-500, Confirmed!

Wed Feb 23, 2000 12:04 pm

You don't have to be a line mechanic to let intuition guide you into selecting P&W or RR as your engine supplier. Intuition tells me not to buy a multi-million dollar, highly complex, cutting-edge technical creation from a company that runs ads on TV about how they also make toasters, refrigerators and curling irons. I don't think I'd ever buy a Pratt & Whitney toaster.

Hmmmm...
An optimist robs himself of the joy of being pleasantly surprised
 
wingman
Posts: 3920
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:25 am

RE: American Considering A-340-500, Confirmed!

Wed Feb 23, 2000 12:20 pm

Boeing will drop the exclusivity deal soon. I'd bet the farm on it. I'm sure they're now tallying launch orders for the 777X with both GE90s and other powerplants and will declare the numbers shortly. Only a fool would walk away from 100+ aircraft sales simply because of the GE deal. Don't forget that this agreement has already "expired" once when no orders were in by the end of '99. I know it was extended but it seems as if the writing's on the wall.

For all you GE bashers out there, I guess you missed the boat on the stock. GE is the world's most successful industrial conglomerate. Not only do they have a market cap of approx. $500 Billion, they are consistently rated the most admired company in the world. BTW, they are also the world's number one jet engine supplier with 50% marketshare across the board. It must be hard to sell so many shi**y jet engines.
 
hmmmm...
Posts: 1967
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 8:32 am

GE Stock

Wed Feb 23, 2000 1:16 pm

Perhaps you missed the point on the stock. The GE bashers didn't say that the GE stock was no good. They didn't say the GE company was no good. They said that there may be inequities with respect to GE's jet engine products. So what I'm hearing from all of you is that I would do best to purchase RR or P&W's engines, but purchase GE stock. That sounds like a smart approach. Safety in both areas.

Hmmmm...
An optimist robs himself of the joy of being pleasantly surprised
 
jr
Posts: 1043
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:15 am

RE: American Considering A-340-500, Confirmed!

Wed Feb 23, 2000 1:32 pm

As unlikely as AA may be in ordering airbus, if Boeing maintains the GE90 exclusivity, it just gives airbus that back door to sway AA away with a super cheap deal for the A345s ... You must admit though - A340s in AA colors will look sweet - I can dream!
I've flown on 9V-SPK.
 
pandora
Posts: 393
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:32 am

AA Will Go 4 777X

Wed Feb 23, 2000 1:40 pm

my opinion is that AA will go with 777X because:

1. fleet commonality with existing 777/777ERs
2. Boeing said it will helpAA with GE90 maintainence
3. there's no point of having a few A340s in the boeing-fleet majority. it will be very costly.
4. 777X has better economics


PLUS the fact that AA has a 20 year exclusive agreement with Boeing and that thw A340-500 FALLS OUTSIDE THE 363,200KG CEILING SET BY BOEING'S EXCLUSICVE SUPPLIER WITHER AMERICAN.!
 
D L X
Posts: 12671
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

Exclusive Agreements

Wed Feb 23, 2000 1:45 pm

I will come off the sidelines for a moment and state my trademark comment when people ignore facts:

There are no exclusive agreements. Not with Boeing, not with Airbus. Airbus cried to the EU when Boeing merged with McDouggie, stating that the exclusive contracts were anti-competitive and unfair. So, the EU threatened tarriffs if the combined Boeing didn't cancel the contract's exclusivity.


With that said, I believe that the airlines that had signed the contracts instead of being forced to buy Boeing contractually, now get deep discounts as long as they stay Boeing.
 
Guest

RE: Pandora

Wed Feb 23, 2000 2:20 pm

You forgot one Pandora!!!

The 777 is a vastly superior machine. I don't know why so many of you are too timid to come out and say it so I will.

777X: Excellent economics, stunningly atractive, cheap, a favorite with passengers....
340NG: Stretched roll of toilet paper
 
pandora
Posts: 393
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:32 am

Thanx KLM 777!

Wed Feb 23, 2000 3:05 pm

u r so right about the 777!!!

the a3xx also can be said to be a copy of the very early 747 double decker design.
 
Guest

KLM 777

Wed Feb 23, 2000 4:28 pm

I agree with you on the A340 series.It is a stretch of the original A300B2.But I don't think Boeing won't drop the deal with GE.If it doesn't drop,airlines will go for the A345 but now with the problems....it would be nice to see Singapore airlines buying 747-500x/747-600x and the 777x with RR Trent 892 engines.

Gundu
 
magyar
Posts: 528
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2000 4:11 pm

RE: KLM777

Wed Feb 23, 2000 5:27 pm

Mr.KLM777,

I just could not resist to answer to you post. You wrote:

>>
You forgot one Pandora!!!

The 777 is a vastly superior machine. I don't know
why so many of you are too timid to come out and say
it so I will.

777X: Excellent economics, stunningly atractive,
cheap, a favorite with passengers....
340NG: Stretched roll of toilet paper
<<

Well, maybe so, but what ultimately counts in aircraft
industry, is whether a plane is outselling its competition
or not. And here is where boeing has a tad bit of a problem.
I mean right now, this situation can change very rapidly
of course.

But, if it stays like this (or get worse), then that beauty
barely worth more than that restroom utility you mentioned.

Janos
 
Louis
Posts: 576
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 6:53 am

Gundu

Wed Feb 23, 2000 5:28 pm

Streach of the A300? Try the fucking 707!! The new A346 looks like the streached DC8! Now, that was an ugly plane!
 
kaitak
Posts: 9869
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

RE: Louis

Wed Feb 23, 2000 9:24 pm

Was it absolutely necessary to use foul language? Yes, we all know the DC8 is pig ugly, but the A340 is a very fine aircraft - if not the most beautiful, aesthetically speaking.
 
Guest

RE: Boeing Should Listen To Customers:offer PW And RR!

Wed Feb 23, 2000 9:41 pm

I agree with you Pratt-Whitney, if Boeing doesn't offer the P&W 4000 and RR Trent on the 777X, they will not get any orders. Of course P&W and RR are the best in the market for their reliability. Look at American Airlines, they were a GE customer, their A300-600s, 767s, DC-10s, and MD-11s are all powered by the GE CF6. But when it came time to order the 777, they went with the RR TRENT! Why? Maybe they were not impressed with the reliability of the GE CF6s on those aircraft so they went with the Rolls Royce Trent for the 777?
 
Guest

AA - A Rolls Royce Airline?

Wed Feb 23, 2000 10:04 pm

TEDSKI,
Yes AA do have a lot of GE-CF6s in their fleet and a lot of people were surprised when they chose the RR Trent for their 777s. But they do already have a lot of RR engines in their fleet.
75 F100s with RR Tays
100 B757s with RR RB211s
So it appears AA are pleased with their RR engines more than being displeased with their GEs. Are AA becoming a Rolls Royce airline like Cathay (but obviously in a smaller way)

Can anyone tell me. Do AA have more RR powered aircraft (777/757/100) than GE ones (AB6/767/D10/M11)?
Obviously PW leads at the AA fleet due to 250+ MD-80s.

Thanks
James
 
ZRH
Posts: 4371
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 1999 11:32 pm

RE: To KLM 777

Wed Feb 23, 2000 10:12 pm

You say that the 777 is the passenger's favorite. I don't believe. In a A-330/340 there are maximum 8 seats abreast, in a 777 at least (economy) 9 or even 10. As passenger I always prefere planes with less seats abreast. 777's and 747's are definitly not my favorites, I travel a lot.
 
Guest

RE: AA - A Rolls Royce Airline?

Wed Feb 23, 2000 10:18 pm

Of course RR is the best, if it wasn't for them putting their famous Merlin engine in the P-51 Mustang in WWII, we would have lost the air war over Europe. That engine increased the P-51's speed to 440 mph and range to escort our B-17 & B-24 bombers over Germany and beat the crap out of the German Luftwaffe.
 
User avatar
sammyk
Posts: 1564
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 1999 11:31 am

GE & Their Lightbulbs...

Wed Feb 23, 2000 11:42 pm

Why is it that so many of you always put GE engines and lightbulbs (or whatever) in the same basket? We all know GE is a massive corporation with many divisions. General Electric Corporation is the parent of GE Aircraft Engines, United Technologies is the parent of P&W, so are you going to say "Oh I can't buy engines from someone that also makes elevators!" How about if we look at the leasing side, ILFC is owned buy an insurance company, GECAS, well you know who owns that, but I dont hear anyone complaining about leasing from an insurance company, or from a lightbulb maker, and GECAS is larger than ILFC, ILFC is only larger in fleet size.

Sammy
 
LH423
Posts: 5924
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 6:27 am

RR Assuage

Thu Feb 24, 2000 1:30 am

American Airlines owns/operates the largest fleet of Rolls Royce engines in the Western Hemisphere. They have 100+/- 757 (=200+/- engines), and 75 F100 (150 engines), giving a grand total of around 350 engines, not to mention the 68 Trents coming on-line with the 777 (giving a total of 418 engines, given that AA doesn't buy anymore RR-powered planes, and don't get rid of any either).

LH423
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 
Guest

WW.II Tedski

Thu Feb 24, 2000 1:54 am

Wake up old man, we write the year 2000.
 
Guest

RE: American Considering A-340-500, Confirmed!

Thu Feb 24, 2000 2:19 am

To klm777, the Boering 777 is not what you dream about. That´s why it is so hard to sell them.
 
Guest

RE: WW.II Tedski

Thu Feb 24, 2000 2:41 am

I am not an old man, I stating the fact how reliable Rolls Royce engines are! If they were reliable back in WWII, they are still reliable on today's aircraft like the 777 & A340!
 
D L X
Posts: 12671
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

RE: WW.II Tedski

Thu Feb 24, 2000 3:44 am

Exactly! Because the old RR engines are the exact same as the new ones right?

Come on, now. The RB211 took forever to get up to the reliability standards of the GE and Pratt powerplants of the day. (It not so indirectly forced Lockheed out of the commercial aviation biz.)

The GE90 is not a flop. It hasn't been around long enough to be a flop, and wait and see when all the bugs are worked out, it will be quite the powerplant. RR and Pratt are playing catchup with their rehashed older designs.
 
777X
Posts: 854
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:44 am

GE90 Exclusive For 777x

Thu Feb 24, 2000 4:07 am

I hear the exclusive contract for the 777x expires at the end of the quarter, and that boeing has no intention of extending it. Could be time for those 777x sales to soar!
 
Guest

RE: WW.II Tedski

Thu Feb 24, 2000 4:08 am

NO! It proves what workhorses Rolls Royce engines are, then and NOW!!! At least the bugs in a Pratt or RR engine are solved before being put on an aircraft instead of after like what has been going on with the GE90 which causes many airlines to ground an aircraft and lose revenue.
 
777X
Posts: 854
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:44 am

RE: WW.II Tedski

Thu Feb 24, 2000 4:58 am

ahh, how soon we forget the RB211 - lots of teething problems...

but generally, RR are pretty good
 
sv11
Posts: 221
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 1999 6:26 am

RE: GE90 Exclusive For 777x

Thu Feb 24, 2000 5:36 am

I thought GE had exclusive rights forever on the 777X.... In my opinion it would be better for Boeing to drop exclusivity and tell the engine makers they can non-exclusively develop an engine for the 777X. If they do, good. If they don't their existing 777 customers probably will put pressure to develop an engine. RR has a lot of traditional PW, GE customers on the 777 like SIA, AA, Delta, MAS who would probably benefit more with a RR engine than a GE on the 777X.

sv11.
 
Guest

RE: GE90 Exclusive For 777x--Sv11

Thu Feb 24, 2000 5:54 am

The deal was announced in July of last year. It was to run until the end of December 1999. When the aircraft wasn't launched in that period the deal should have been over. However, Boeing chose to extend the deal until the end of the first quarter 2000. Boeing doesn't want to back out of this deal, despite much of the industry's desire to do so. The deal will really only come into effect if the aircraft if launched in this period. If it isn't launched in this period, PW and RR are fair game to compete with GE. However, for the past couple of years Boeing has been in bed with GE, look for a desperate attempt to get the aircraft launched and the deal saved. However, with AA talking to Airbus, the best attempt to reverse the desicion is mounting.

I think the GE deal hurts them more than anything. One Asian Airline executive used words to this effect. "We wanted Pratt and Whitney, but we would have taken Rolls way before we would ever consider GE." Not an exact quote but it does sum up many airlines' positions.

Of the original airlines approached about 777X
Airlines for GE90
Air France
Continental-- most likely ok w/ it.

Airlines Against-- GE90 exclusivity

British Airways -- A GE90 customer
United- Largest 777 operator
American Airlines- Rolls Royce's biggest customer.
Cathay Pacific-- Always loyal to Rolls
JAL- would have preferred commonality.
All Nippon Airways- a majority GE customer but bought PW's on 777 would have preferred commonality.
Delta-- once again commonality-- they still may switch though.
Korean Airlines-- wanted commonality.

The industry is against it, I can only hope Boeing listens.

 
Guest

To Klm777

Thu Feb 24, 2000 6:56 am

klm777, if you like comparing aircrafts with a roll of toilet-paper; the 777 has a perfect circled-fuselage, so this is really coming close to a roll.  
 
D L X
Posts: 12671
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

Pratt Man

Thu Feb 24, 2000 9:42 am

Dude, pull your head out of your company's bum for a second.

Do you really think that Boeing made the deal with GE because they want to be nice to GE? Get real. GE ponied up some dough so that the chances of the 777x being launched would be greater. Don't you think they deserve some return on their investment?

Pratt and RR could have done the same thing (if their powerplant were advanced/expandable enough which they weren't at the time) and then maybe you would have more choice. Not like you would be complaining anyways if Pratt were the only choice offered.
 
User avatar
sammyk
Posts: 1564
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 1999 11:31 am

RE: To Klm777

Thu Feb 24, 2000 9:44 am

>klm777, if you like comparing aircrafts with a roll of >toilet-paper; the 777 has a perfect circled-fuselage, >so this is really coming close to a roll.

So does the A300, 310, 330, 340  

Sammy
 
D L X
Posts: 12671
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

Back To The Subject...

Thu Feb 24, 2000 9:47 am

Anyways, we have drifted pretty far from the subject. If someone wants to continue this discussion, it probably better belongs under another thread.

BUT, back to AA. As I've said before, AA will not buy airbus. If AA buys airbus, they will dump them as soon as Boeing caves in. This is the history of AA. AA wanted McDoug to build certain features into the MD11 at a certain price. When they didn't do it to AA's liking at first, AA leased some 747SPs and ran those for a while leveraging McD. If McD didn't give them what they wanted, AA had to at least make them believe that they would buy the 744. They did McD that way earlier in their history too. They wanted certain specs and prices on the DC10, and almost got L1011s when they didn't get their way at first.

The only reason why non-Boeing jets are in their fleet is because Fokker and Airbus made them deals that no one could refuse, simply to gain market. AA has not bought further Fokkers (now defunct) or Airbuses since.
 
Guest

RE: American Considering A-340-500, Confirmed!

Thu Feb 24, 2000 9:48 am

And it took boeing quite long to understand that a circle fuselage offers the most space....  
 
UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

RE: American Considering A-340-500, Confirmed!

Thu Feb 24, 2000 10:17 am

I highly doubt that AA will buy airbus. Has everyone forgotten about the AA/Boeing exclusive deal? I don't know what it takes to get out of a deal like that, but I bet AA is getting some really good deals on Boeings. The A340 is too different from AA's fleet. There would only be a small market niche for this plane and the 777X fills that with commonality to 777-200ER. Now, I have flown both the A340 and the 777. I like the 777 better personally. I think that AA is really happy with their 777's as well. Everything nowadays is about saving money, especially with the airline industry. Why would AA buy a new type of plane, very few at that, and train new crew, new mechanics, buy new tools, etc, etc, etc.?? I just don't see it happening. It would be nice to see an A340 in AA livery, but get real guys, it ain't gonna fly.
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
CX747
Posts: 6245
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:54 am

Exclusive Contract Details.

Thu Feb 24, 2000 12:13 pm

The contract is up to 800,000lb aircraft. The a340-500 weighs more than 800,000lbs so that is how AA could "get" out of the contract. I highly doubt though that they will. The 777 aircraft is already in the fleet and I believe AA does or will operate 37 777-200s. The 777-200X and 300X are much better aircraft than the A340NG. The 777 has greater payload/range, economics and operating efficiences along with having commonality with their current 777-200IGWs. I believe that AA will eventually order the 777 right now though they are trying to "tell" Boeing that RR engines are important to them.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
pandora
Posts: 393
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:32 am

CX747, That's What I Tried To Exaplin Yesterday

Thu Feb 24, 2000 3:49 pm

your point is what i tried to explain yesterday, but no one listened except KLM777. I believe that KLM too would order 777 in future. they are VERY loyal to Boeing and i like that!!!
 
Airbus A3XX
Posts: 479
Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 5:12 pm

RE: American Considering A-340-500, Confirmed!

Thu Feb 24, 2000 7:21 pm

I am Boeing is really stupid to give GE to exclusive right for engins of 777 because mostly only Air France and Continental are interested it that...........
Also for EVA Air...............
 
Guest

RE: American Considering A-340-500, Confirmed!

Thu Feb 24, 2000 10:38 pm

I think in the best interests for Boeing in order to remain competative with Airbus is to give airlines the engine of their choice on the 777X, whether it is a Pratt & Whitney, GE, or Rolls Royce PERIOD!

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 3AWM, A340TLS, Armadillo1, austin737, Baidu [Spider], CanadianNorth, dc10co, DKNOFF, f18raider, FB330, fbwless, Google Adsense [Bot], MrHMSH, panamair, qf002, RebelDJ, rrbsztk, Shuttle, simairlinenet, Sylus, wxw507 and 419 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos