Gecas Firms Order For Eight 772LRs!

ConcordeBoy · Sat Aug 07, 2004 12:41 am

~You heard it here first~

Will be while before this will go public (my source doesn't yet know the carrier they're going to be for)...

...but GECAS has now firmed the LOI it placed for eight 777-26NLRs in July 2000. First delivery is scheduled 11/06, with the order completed in 8/09.

Engine selected is the GE90-110B1.

Payload option is 141,000lb.

This is [finally] some good news for the 772NG, as GECAS is generally more conservative than ILFC in terms of only buying aircraft when a customer has already been secured.

PanAm_DC10 · Sat Aug 07, 2004 12:49 am

Perhaps one of the 2 new operators Boeing mentioned?

BCAInfoSys · Sat Aug 07, 2004 12:51 am

Additionally.. there is still an outstanding LOI for 15 772LR's from Malaysia, that were put in a long-time ago when this was still the 772X. Anyone know the status on those 15...?

ConcordeBoy · Sat Aug 07, 2004 12:54 am

My guesses would be Singapore, Qantas, or Qatar; but on mostly supposition at this point.

SQ:
I dunno, particularly since the 773ER would more likely be the center of any new order from them. Though, GECAS has been cracking at them for a while now, nearly 5yrs for the twins. So who knows.

QF:
This guess is as good as any, at least they've RFPed it.

QR:
All-Airbus, all-Shmairbus... al-Baker's had wood for the Triple7 for about three years now.

whitehatter · Sat Aug 07, 2004 1:04 am

QR is a possibility, but it could even be for someone totally non-expected.

One of the Asian carriers perhaps. GECAS is getting into Russia, China and other places; and there are routes to be developed which are outside the current C market thinking.

Could CX even be in there?

yul332LX · Sat Aug 07, 2004 1:07 am

That's about time...

...but 8 LR seems like a high number for a single carrier. Could GECAS allocate them to more than one airline?

yul332LX · Sat Aug 07, 2004 1:17 am

…unless some current ER routes get replaced by the LR for higher payload purposes. That would make more sense.

col · Sat Aug 07, 2004 1:59 am

Aren't ANZ leasing some 777 in their order?

ConcordeBoy · Sat Aug 07, 2004 2:03 am

unless some current ER routes get replaced by the LR for higher payload purposes

I have no idea if these are tanked or not...

...but it's a good step up from the 120,100lbs currently being sported by the best of the 772ERs.

BCAInfoSys · Sat Aug 07, 2004 2:04 am

Col -

They are, but there is no indication of any 772LRs, only the regular 772ERs.

yul332LX · Sat Aug 07, 2004 2:13 am

...but it's a good step up from the 120,100lbs currently being sported by the best of the 772ERs.

...and the non-tanked LR are expected to have a range of about 400nm more than any ER for the same TOW. So, another significant step in this regard too.

Does anyone know if the LR already ordered (i.e. Eva) are extra-tanked?

starrion · Sat Aug 07, 2004 2:16 am

Hey this is shapping up to be a good year for the T7!

2 to CX, 4 to EK, 1 Ufo, 8 to NZ, 6 to Thai, now 8 to Gecas.

And SQ and AM still haven't been confirmed yet.

col · Sat Aug 07, 2004 2:18 am

BCAInfosys,

Thanks for info, this is good news if for new carrier. May calm down some of the Statesiders.

yyz717 · Sat Aug 07, 2004 2:18 am

but 8 LR seems like a high number for a single carrier. Could GECAS allocate them to more than one airline?

GECAS will order new aircraft for 2 reasons: on behalf of an existing airline that wants to lease, OR in anticipation/expectation of placing the aircraft by the time they are delivered.

Given the specialized role of the 772LR and the very small customer base, it is likely GECAS has a customer or 2 lined up already.

yul332LX · Sat Aug 07, 2004 2:49 am

Given the specialized role of the 772LR and the very small customer base, it is likely GECAS has a customer or 2 lined up already.

That's what I think. I doubt these 8 LR will go to the same airline unless they are meant to be operated on existing ER routes.

I'm sure GECAS gets a really good discount from Boeing!!!

They probably do get a significant discount since the LOI was signed 4 years ago...

N328KF · Sat Aug 07, 2004 2:49 am

Next stop! 777LRF! It surely has to be in the pipeline.

BCAInfoSys · Sat Aug 07, 2004 5:20 am

N328KF -

Last time I heard, the 772LRF was given the go-ahead, as well as the 739X. But that was just talk around the water cooler, so talk it for what it's worth... Smile

SafetyDude · Sat Aug 07, 2004 6:09 am

...but GECAS has now firmed the LOI it placed for eight 777-26NLRs in July 2000.
It seems that I missed the 772LR history. Could someone provide it for me? Thanks.

Smile/happy/getting dizzy

-Will

Horus · Sat Aug 07, 2004 8:08 am

My bet would be on CX and EK.

Great news though...the 772LR began to look like a doomed aircraft...well sales are dismal compared to the A345, but I guess its too early too say (at least I hope so, as I do prefer the 777 over the A340)

Horus

whitehatter · Sat Aug 07, 2004 8:19 am

I wouldn't have thought that Boeing would offer a 772LRF as there isn't much of a market there for ultralong range freighters. A 773ERF would make more sense with higher cabin volume. Freight operators tend to load more cargo on and make stops rather than fuel the aircraft to the brim.

The freight dogs want either space or low unit cost, preferably both. If a swing nose or tail version could be built and certified it'd sell like wildfire, offering everything the freight world could need and an outsize cargo capacity.

A 772LRF would need its cargo to be high end revenue producing to justify the extra capital costs and the cost of lifting that much extra fuel for a C market operation.

Ruscoe · Sat Aug 07, 2004 8:23 am

I think the point about the 777LRF is that it is a 140T freighter whereas the 773ERF would hold more volume but less weight. (because of the weight of the extra structure).

They want the payload not the range.

Ruscoe

9v-svc · Sat Aug 07, 2004 8:43 am

Very unlikely Emirates will order the 772LR as they are already operating the A345. Anyway, can't wait to see Biman and EVA Air flying them.

DfwRevolution · Sat Aug 07, 2004 8:58 am

They probably do get a significant discount since the LOI was signed 4 years ago...

I'm not so sure. First, Boeing discounts out of absolute necessity and nothing more. Sometimes Boeing comes close to shooting itself in the foot to squeeze every cent out of airlines, the so-called "777 premium."

But, GECAS being a GE subsidary, and GE being a primary 777LR contractor in the form of the GE90 means the aircraft probably do not have the typical premium. I doubt GEAE would charge full price for a GECAS order!

Horus · Sat Aug 07, 2004 9:04 am

Very unlikely Emirates will order the 772LR as they are already operating the A345

Well you seem to forget they'll operate the 773ER and A346 side by side very soon, so having the 772LR and A345 is not as unlikely as you might think. You'd be right if we were talking about a 'conventional' airline, but we are talking about EK here...there is a difference.

Horus

SafetyDude · Sat Aug 07, 2004 9:05 am

Very unlikely Emirates will order the 772LR as they are already operating the A345.
SQ is rumored to order a 777 variant later this month to supplement/replace (some argue its purposes) their 345s.

Smile

-Will

aussie747 · Sat Aug 07, 2004 9:08 am

Who are they for???

My best guess would be EK (it rumoured fleet expansion across the pacific??) or SQ (publicly it has stated interest in this aircraft). I doubt TG since it has already placed it's long haul order for the A345 only recently. However I would put QF as an outside chance (since most most QF orders tend to be announced when their EOY results are announced 19Aug, and they had placed tenders for this type of aircraft range back in March.)

EMBQA · Sat Aug 07, 2004 9:58 am

My guesses would be Qantas...

QANTAS...?? What are you smoking...? If QANTAS wanted the 777 they would have ordered it 10 years ago...not now.

N328KF · Sat Aug 07, 2004 10:38 am

But, GECAS being a GE subsidary, and GE being a primary 777LR contractor in the form of the GE90 means the aircraft probably do not have the typical premium. I doubt GEAE would charge full price for a GECAS order!

Actually, that's not true. Typically, corporate orders like this are done at normal prices, internally, so that each division's funds are properly accounted for. In the end, it doesn't matter to the holding corporation, but that way it is easier to keep track of what divisions are performing properly. If GECAS had cheaper product because GEAE gave them a discount, then you would have GETS (parent of GEAE) looking worse on the stockholder reports in comparison to GECAS.

ConcordeBoy · Sat Aug 07, 2004 10:39 am

What are you smoking...?

Based on the above rather moronic post, might I inquire the same?

If QANTAS wanted the 777 they would have ordered it 10 years ago...not now.

...the probably would have, were a C-market 777 available anywhere that time back Insane

JeffDCA · Sat Aug 07, 2004 10:53 am

With A330's in the fleet and A380's joining, i'd have thought that QF, if purchasing the particular class of aircraft in question, would go for the A345. They may well go for 777's however, perhaps influenced by BA also operating them.

I guess it's the same as the VS 777/A340 order. You can speculate all you like, but you don't know until the day the order is announced what it'll be.

Cheers,

Jeff

ConcordeBoy · Sat Aug 07, 2004 10:58 am

You can speculate all you like, but you don't know until the day the order is announced what it'll be.

...actually, I do now know who one of the customers will be.

The rest of you fools will know by the 3rd week of this month Wink/being sarcastic

warren747sp · Sat Aug 07, 2004 11:22 am

Comma, ConcordeBoy,
stop teasing us and let us know.! I am betting SQ or CX.

SafetyDude · Sat Aug 07, 2004 11:24 am

The rest of you fools will know by the 3rd week of this month
Not only do we know the purchase amount, we know the leasing information, and we know when the order is coming. Forget Branson! Laugh out loud

-Will

The777Man · Sat Aug 07, 2004 3:27 pm

ConcordeBoy: Any hints, eg new 777 customer or existing one ? Figure I can always ask Smile/happy/getting dizzy

The777Man

soaringadi · Sat Aug 07, 2004 3:30 pm

1st. of all yay !!!! Yeah the Lr's are worth every penny ! Big thumbs up

Anyways can someone tell me what is Gecas ???

N328KF · Sat Aug 07, 2004 3:30 pm

The777Man:

OK, you win. They're for LH!

aerosol · Sat Aug 07, 2004 8:08 pm

CX - no way! They won't fly twins on ultra longhaul.

zaphod · Sat Aug 07, 2004 10:07 pm

I'm betting EK. I've heard some talk within about the 772LR

Horus · Sat Aug 07, 2004 11:21 pm

Anyways can someone tell me what is Gecas ???

GECAS stands for General Electric Capital Aviation Services. They are the largest aircraft leasing company.

This might help:

http://www.gecas.com/aboutgecas.asp

Horus

PanAm_DC10 · Sat Aug 07, 2004 11:34 pm

...actually, I do now know who one of the customers will be.

From that line this fool will deduce that GECAS will not be placing their entire 8 frame order with a single operator, but two. Things that make you go hmmmm.

Regards

Greg · Sat Aug 07, 2004 11:55 pm

GECAS more conservative in ordering aircraft??? NO WAY!!

They committed to 150 EMB170 because they have GE engines.
They committed to 150 FD728's becuase they were to have GE Engines.
They commited to 150 CRJ700's because they have GE engines.
At the time, only SIX of the 450 aircraft had a 'home'. That's a lot of things....but 'conservative' is not a term I'd ever use.

There is the likelihood that all or part of the order is strictly because the aircraft have big GE90's hanging on them and they see a potential market at some point. It does not necessarily mean they have already been placed.

The777Man · Sun Aug 08, 2004 12:17 am

After reflecting a bit more on this, I agree that it seems more likely that this is for two airlines and my guess is that one of them is Vietnam Airlines (VN).

They have said in recent months that they are looking for more long haul aircraft and with their planned introduction to the US next year (SFO), they may want to serve it nonstop from SGN and HAN and would therefore need the -200LR. I could see them getting up to 4 777-200LR for flights to SFO, LAX, IAD and/or IAH. They already have GE90s on some of their 777-200ERs.

My other guesses would be Qantas (QF), Cathay Pacific (CX) and Air-India (AI).

The777Man

RayChuang · Sun Aug 08, 2004 12:23 am

I have this feeling that the GECAS order for the 777-200LR may be for a long-term lease to Continental Airlines (CO).

Why CO? One good reason: the ability to fly EWR to HKG with far less payload restrictions than now with the 777-200ER powered by GE90-92B engines.

whitehatter · Sun Aug 08, 2004 12:23 am

This one is a total guess so save the ridicule...

GECAS is placing a lot of aircraft with SU. They have already got the ILFC 772s with the GE90, so could Aeroflot be a potential customer for a GECAS leased bird or two?

Those two 772ERs have been up for return for some time now, but seem to be staying at Aeroflot. They could even be thinking about a few more.

The777Man · Sun Aug 08, 2004 12:29 am

I agree that CO seems like a likely candidate; not just nonstop EWR-HKG with no payload restrictions but perhaps also for other new routes eg EWR-SYD, EWR-JNB ?

Don't see why SU would get any -200LRs. What ultra-long haul routes would they fly them on ?

This IS a thread about speculation but trying to see the most likely candiidates as to route structure, announcements and logic.

The777Man

ConcordeBoy · Sun Aug 08, 2004 12:59 am

Here's what I've been able to discover.

GECAS has firmed their order... but the first carrier targetted has not.

Since that particular information on who it is was told to me in confidence, I cannot share with y'all until at or around the date of firmation (don't worry, it's still this month).... what I can say however:

It's a multiple-carrier order

The carrier to take 1st delivery is not a current 777 operator

No shock here: that carrier is an Asian airline

...no more hints for you Big grin

powered by GE90-92B engines

They were bought as -92Bs, but operated as -90Bs.... some 3D-Aero, others soon to be.

Horus · Sun Aug 08, 2004 1:06 am

Whitehatter, SU will have disposed of their B734s and B772s by mid-2005 (source: Flight International). If this is the case then I doubt we'll see the B772LR in Aeroflot colours.

Horus

FinnWings · Sun Aug 08, 2004 1:07 am

I would say Finnair for these reasons:

1) Finnair has currently 6 leased MD-11s. The lease of OH-LGA will end in early 2007. GECAS announced that the first B772LR will be delivered 11/06, therefore this could be excellent timing.

2) The lease of AY's youngest MD-11 (OH-LGF) will end in autumn 2009 and GECAS told that last B772LR will be delivered in 08/09.

3) The amount of aircraft is excellent for Finnair's future needs.

4) B772LR could fly non-stop from Helsinki to Sydney for example, giving huge advantage for Finnair on Australia-Europe routes. This isn't possible from FRA/CDG/AMS/LHR, for example!

5) Finnair is usually very quiet regarding their new orders. They always try to stay as "undisclosed" customer as long as possible... just like with their Embraer 170 order

6) There has been a huge plastic model of B772 on the desk of Finnair's CEO Keijo Suila now for a couple of months.... and guess what....wearing full AY c/s!!

Looks like quite a perfect match in my opinion!!! What do you think...?

Best Regards,
FinnWings

BlueSky1976 · Sun Aug 08, 2004 1:12 am

Does 777-200LR even have a range to do EWR-SYD nonstop?

stirling · Sun Aug 08, 2004 1:21 am

Got a question....

EWR-SYD is 15970km. Can a 777LR do that? (9925sm) That's a long haul!

As for Finnair getting the aircraft, that would be great to hear about someone else for a change!! I can't remember where I read this, but their(AY) Asian routes out of HEL, are doing very well of late.
Makes sense!
Good Luck!

Who is online

Popular Searches On Airliners.net