In the threads discussing Mexican aviation issues, we are always talking about all kinds of passengers (leisure, business...) destinations (hub and spoke, O&D... etc.) But we tend to forget cargo...

On a separate thread, I read there are two ex-MH B744C (Combis) in storage somewhere. This got me thinking... What if MX (most feasible example), who is unsure about opening up the far East market due perhaps "not enough" pax, got these two babies fit up, a few crewpeople trained, and give the pax/cargo load a chance to finance the expansion into Asia?



I know the composite is not a B744C, but it gives you an idea... Wouldn't this be awesome?

I just happen to KNOW how interesting the air cargo loads between Asia and Mexico are... Why not let the cargo be the foundation of an extended pax service? AF, AC, KL are only examples of airlines successfully running routes with B747C's.



This route, Asia-TIJ-MEX is perfect for cargo/pax load combination. What do you guys think?

Regards,
__Ad.

From Tijuana to Asia? I guess even if you leave that TIJ out and think of a route from MEX to Asia that would be kind of hard...
I mean, they don't even have decent service to Europe...
I guess if there was a market, an Asian carrier that has the equipment readily available would already be flying to MEX. Since that is not the case I don't see MX getting 744s just to fly to Asia.
I think you have to make do with connecting in LAX for the time being.

  PA

Thanks for allowing me to further elaborate: Cargolux and Atlas (using B744F's) and Mas Air (using B767F) carry cargo from Asia to MEX. Japan Air Lines carries pax. FedEx alone carries enough cargo between TLC and Asia to fill out a B744C cargo hold.

PLUS: flying to the far east from TIJ would be an attractive option to consider for the San Diego area population that doesn't want to drive up to LAX to take thier flights...

__Ad.

And why are you only considering MX and not AM? I mean, AM at least already has widebodies, MX doesn't.

I'm not sure anyone from SAN would wanna drive down to Tijuana and catch a flight to Asia, having to cross the US-Mexican border before.

By the way, what about Varig? They currently fly to Japan via LAX. If you want service to Asia so deperately, maybe you can convince them to fly GRU-MEX-NRT or something like that. They don't like the new US transit visa rules so they might be looking for alternatives.

  PA

And why are you only considering MX and not AM? I mean, AM at least already has widebodies, MX doesn't.

MX does have a widebody, B763 XA-MXB


View Large View Medium

Photo © Jason Whitebird


Ciccone

Ok, thanx Ciccone. I didn't know that. Then they could use that 763 if they wanted to fly from Tijuana to Asia  

  PA

A lot of Asian tourists visit Tijuana as a part of their tour of the West Coast of US. I, for one, did that many years ago. However, it was just crossing the borders for a few hours and then back onto US soils before you even know it. Therefore, I don't know if a flight to Asia can be sustained.

Unless you are talking about setting up an alternate silicon valley in Tijuana. A much lower labour cost but with the gigantic American market literally at your doorsteps, then I can see the glimmer of hope of business travellers spurring the demand.

Until then, Tijuana is still, in my memory, a little town to buy Mexican souvenirs and an easy way for me to tell my friends that "I HAVE BEEN TO MEXICO" without having to venture too far.

Hence, AM or MX flying to Asia? Great idea... Feasibility and business sense wise? It would be suicide.

One more thing, let's not forget Malaysia Airlines' attempt at this market via LAX. It failed because they didn't have 5th freedom rights from LAX, and this means that the pax getting off in MEX were either too low in numbers or the yields really poor.

PanAm... thanks for your input and for your interest in Mexican aviation. I am afrtaid, however, you're not getting it: The point is expanding a Mexican carrier operation into Asia, not getting additional service from a Brazilian competitor.

As Ciccone pointed out, there's a new B763ER, and there are more to come. They will be used to reinforce the MEX-EZE route. Just FYI, a B767ER cannot be used for TIJ-NRT routes, unless it is 138-minute ETOPS certified... Which is not the case. In the past, MX operated custom-made DC10-15, together with AM.

I did not mention specifically AM, as AM's focus is on Europe nowadays, (MAD, CDG), and looking into expanding to London. AM is getting B777's in a few morte months, and expects to get slots at LHR - the slots available in LGW were of no interest to AM.

MX on the contrary, has nibbled on the idea of expaning into the Asian market for a while now. Airbus' metal is preferrable for MX. Either an A330 or an A340 - but these options have been considered for the mid-to longer term, and for pax only. I'm talkking about starting sooner with a pax/cargo combination.



(BTW: Good job, Jorge: that's the sexiest aircraft image I've ever seen!! :-o)



Regards,
__Ad.

So what about AM getting 777s? They could do it then.
I would just think that either you fly nonstop from MEX to anywhere or it doesn't even make sense to open up a new route as it is probably not fast to fly MEX-TIJ-NRT on the route proposed here rather then flying MEX-LAX-NRT on any other airline. So it would have to be e.g. MEX-NRT.
Plus, I believe there are lots of tourists in TIJ but not a lot of business people.

  PA

Edit: I did not see your above post before posting this.
You're right, I do find this interesting. You wanted to hear an opinion, I gave you mine.

[Edited 2004-08-07 20:04:15]

<< Unless you are talking about setting up an alternate silicon valley in Tijuana. A much lower labour cost but with the gigantic American market literally at your doorsteps, then I can see the glimmer of hope of business travellers spurring the demand. >>

That's exactly what there is at Tijuana and the north border zone: a huge maquiladora industry whose Japanese, Chinese and Korean executives have to drive to LAX to go home.

<< Until then, Tijuana is still, in my memory, a little town to buy Mexican souvenirs and an easy way for me to tell my friends that "I HAVE BEEN TO MEXICO" without having to venture too far. >>

Ryanair: I do hope you come and get to know more of my country sometime. You'll be surprised. By the way, someone going to Tijuana and thinking they have seen Mexico, is pretty much like going to Disneyland alone and thinking you've seeen California...

__Ad.

Not a bad idea Adriaticus !

As for TIJ, well it's not so much a stop to completley fill up the plane with cargo or passengers, but a technical stop since flying nonstop from MEX to Asia is rather unfeasible with full payload perhaps. So it would be more like a technical stop with a zing.

TIJ could provide with a decent number of passengers, and more likeley business passengers, and also lots of cargo.

For those of you who don't know, Tijuana is an important bastion of the foreign manufacturing industry, and it has fueled much of the city's explosive growth in the past 20 years, from a sleepy border town into a convoluted mass of 1.5 million, and while manufacturing costs are much higher than those of China, the proximity southern california still gives many advantages for manufacturers in the area.

So, any flight from here to Asia could benefit from business traffic, lots of cargo, and also some people from across the border, while it may be hard for some to believe but not a small number of americans cross the border to catch flights (as many as 50% or more of tickets sold on some routes are sold north of the border).

Thus, I believe that with adequate planning and promotion, especially amongst industry, someone could definitley make the route profitable, especially with the Cargo/Pax configuration.

Ricardo

Adriaticus, fellows.....

It is always interesting to discuss the situation of the Mexican aviation industry in regards to the Asian market. I am bound to enjoy this topic very much, and I just hope it stays in the forum long enough. Therefore, please allow me to share the considerations appended bellow with you all:

1.- JAL, since the beginning of its operations to MEX in 1972, has had a great trouble in order to set foot in our market. Originally, they had a 3 x weekly frequency which was brought down to the current 2 x weekly, short after the introduction of the 742 service to MEX in 1995. JAL has also tried to withdraw from MEX on different occasions, but thanks to some government to government negotiations it has been prevented from doing it.

2.- JL has now managed to preserve its Mexico flights and achieve decent pax and cargo loads. However, due to a ridiculous agreement with Aeromexico, by which a big chunk of the revenue coming from the MEX-YVR v v sector is taken by AM, JAL is not keen to further expand its operations in our market, unless the rules of the game change. Furthermore, JAL would never get fifth freedom rights out of any U.S. west coast city into MEX and beyond to the south as it has always wanted.

3.- MAS began flights to MEX in October 1992 using a 744 combi 2 x weekly on the KUL-TPE-LAX-MEX v v with full fifth freedom rights on every sector. In 1994 the combi was replaced by a full pax 744, due to very strong transpac demand out of LAX. Once MH´s rights on the MEX-LAX sector were removed, in September 1998, the poor long haul loads ex MEX prompted the termination of the service in December of the same year. MAS never had a true chance to create a strong presence in the Mexican market, which is a shame, as it is a wonderful and appealing product.

4.- Mexico has traditionally neglected the tremendous importance of the Asian market, both politically and economically. I don´t see any Mexican carrier venturing itself across an ocean plagued with outsized sharks. At this time, I have to concur with our friend Ryanairr when he says... " AM/MX flying to Asia... feasibility, business sense wise... a true suicide !

Regards

On a separate thread, I read there are two ex-MH B744C (Combis) in storage somewhere. This got me thinking... What if MX (most feasible example), who is unsure about opening up the far East market due perhaps "not enough" pax, got these two babies fit up, a few crewpeople trained, and give the pax/cargo load a chance to finance the expansion into Asia?

I would go for it! But unfortunately this relays on Emilio Romano, his team and CINTRA's board to give green light to a project like this, ASPA, ASSA... and all other extra bells and whistles!


From Tijuana to Asia? I guess even if you leave that TIJ out and think of a route from MEX to Asia that would be kind of hard...

TIJ will only be used as a technical stop. And perhaps while you refuel you can give the option for TIJ/SAN and other people around the area to get a ticket.


I guess if there was a market, an Asian carrier that has the equipment readily available would already be flying to MEX. Since that is not the case I don't see MX getting 744s just to fly to Asia.

For an ASIAN carrier the operation could be a little more harder to make the route successful. MX being a mexican carrier could take advantage of the techincal and stop and they could also carry pax, cargo and more from MEX to TIJ and viceversa (on the return flight) and more good things an Asian carrier couldn't do. An Asian would use TIJ as a refuel stop and nothing else.


Thanks for allowing me to further elaborate: Cargolux and Atlas (using B744F's) and Mas Air (using B767F) carry cargo from Asia to MEX. Japan Air Lines carries pax. FedEx alone carries enough cargo between TLC and Asia to fill out a B744C cargo hold.

I wish MY had Asian operations but they just fly to LAX. From LAX someone else takes their cargo to Asia. CargoLux and Atlas just fly to the US and Europe.

Surprisingly AM is the leader hauling cargo out from MEX. Here are more stats:
http://www.transportesxxi.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=3731


I'm not sure anyone from SAN would wanna drive down to Tijuana and catch a flight to Asia, having to cross the US-Mexican border before.

People from SAN DO use TIJ for flights to all Mexico or to connect to other destinations in GDL, MTY or MEX.


Until then, Tijuana is still, in my memory, a little town to buy Mexican souvenirs and an easy way for me to tell my friends that "I HAVE BEEN TO MEXICO" without having to venture too far.

Ryanair!!! - With all respect you haven't been to Mexico yet. You need to know more about Mexico! MEXICO is so much nicer than TIJ, CJS, REX!  


I would just think that either you fly nonstop from MEX to anywhere or it doesn't even make sense to open up a new route as it is probably not fast to fly MEX-TIJ-NRT on the route proposed here rather then flying MEX-LAX-NRT on any other airline. So it would have to be e.g. MEX-NRT.

Impossible! No aircraft can takeoff from MEX at its MTOW (B747/767/777/330/340).


Ricardo APM

ADRIATICUS;

you have a good point in combis. MX is looking at combi aircraft for the MEX to Asia routes. Mex-Tij-Asia. A lot of cargo comes from Asia to Mex via either SFO or LAX. So this would be ideal,revenue wise it would be awesome.

When MX operates the 767-300 out of LAX, 13-15 tons of cargo are sent out! If this aircraft operates daily as LAX-MEX-on to BUE, the cargo capacity from LAX would increase dramatically!

rgds

A320319318

I think it is a good idea. By offering this route and combined services a whole new market would be created. Some of you act like "If it was a good idea, someone would have done it already"... And if such thing was true, the world as it is today wouldn't exist.

As JL is flying to NRT-MEX-NRT only 2x/week, there is a huge market unattended. This market resorts to the obvious simple option: fly to LAX, allow for enough connection time to clear a cumbersome and often long and unfriendly immigtration process in LAX's Tom Bradley International Terminal, and then check-in to a flight to the far east. It is most certainly uncomfortable in the middle of a very long trip, one that sometimes takes up to 17 hours with this stopover included...

This proposal could reduce that travel time by three hours, easily. It'll be friendlier, easier...

Also, San Diegans and Tijuanans have to drive up to LAX to check in.

The way i see it, this would mean more weekly options for the customers to make the flight between NRT and MEX without changing planes and the inconveniences of going through LAX. It would give the people of the Tijuana/San Diego area an option they don't currently have, and would allow for a faster and cheaper manner of carrying loads of cargo between Mexico and Japan (let's rememeber the ftree Trade Agreement between Japan and Mexico should enter in force sometime soon!). All of the above are upsides. I see no downside, other than the pessimism of some fellow a.netters in the threads above.

Marie

Ryanair!!! - With all respect you haven't been to Mexico yet. You need to know more about Mexico! MEXICO is so much nicer than TIJ, CJS, REX!

Which is precisely my point! Mexico is not a country that is a popular tourist destination when Asia (or at least South East Asia) is concerned. Our connection with Mexico is only frequently via Tijuana (only!) and with that, I know that is hardly a good representation of the entire country because Mexico, like any other large countries, vary greatly from region to region.

Just look through any popular tour itinerary in Singapore and Malaysia when it comes to the West Coast of America. LA, SF, Vancouver, Las Vegas, San Diego and Tijuana are the usual suspects.

It has been like this for many decades. It will take a lot to change our mindsets that "Hey! Let's go to Mexico!" at the drop of a dime. For that to happen, the Mexican tourism authority would need to coin a large marketing campaign to woo the Asians. Until then, when i come to Mexico, the shopkeepers are still going to bow at me like I am Japanese (even though I am far from it, it happened to me in Tijuana). So there, the man on the streets in down town Mexico City is still going to think that all Asians come from Japan.

Ask any one of us here in Asia about the airlines in Mexico. Aside from the aviation nuts like me, I don't expect the rest of my friends to know the answer. They would probably say something silly like "errr... Mexico Airlines? Aero Mexico? Mex Air?"

So you see, to begin flying here, the government of Mexico would either need to launch a MEGA get-to-know-Mexico program in Asia, or be prepared to fund AM's or MX's push to launch routes here. Starting it would be rough and a HUGE gamble I am sure any privately-owned airline isn't willing to risk unless there is a guaranteed return.

My 2 Singapore cents worth...

fly away
Ryan

... So you see, to begin flying here, the government of Mexico.....

Ryan.... You got it all right ! This has been the issue for many years already, but some people in this country just don´t get it. Mexico has almost no presence in any field in the Asian market. Again, we have neglected the tremendous importance the Far East, and specially Southeast Asia represent to the world. We are just looking up north, nowhere else. We can call it " placing all the eggs in one single basket"... risky business all right !

I remember when we had the wonderful chance to position our country as an attractive destination in the huge Japanese market back in the late 70´s and early 80´s, when the Mexican National Tourist Council ( now defunct ), and Mexicana Airlines had their own offices in Tokyo that were aggressively promoting and selling Mexico with the large wholesalers such as Japan Travel Bureau and Look. All that has now gone to the garbage, as there was lack of continuity in policies, which is nothing new to us, of course.

Bottomline is, if Mexicana or any other Mexican carrier want to roll the dice and venture themselves into the Asian market, be my guests and go for it. But please, do it only after having carried out an extensive feasibility study and arrived to a healthy financial status.... Flying to Asia is expensive...costs of operating there are truly paramount.

Regards

Thanks to all of you who have posted viewpoints and opinions. Most of them contain valuable information. Mexico most certainly needs to expand its mindset presence in Asian countries... Japan (especially NRT) has been the traditional Asian gateway to Mexico - so awareness there is far higher than it is in other places - such as Korea, Singapore, China or Malaysia to name very few. A trans-pacific pax flight most certainly needs to be fed from more countries than just Japan.

With reference to the cargo... Yesterday I attended a meeting with MEX's AICM customhouse officials and private bonded warehouses people. Interestingly, some official statistics popped up... As it turns out, they say the output of cargo exported by air to APEC countries averages 200-220 metric tons per week... A large portion of these are perishables... I know FedEx carries a good chunk of these (ex-TLC, not MEX, but exported from MEX and taken in-bond to TLC), but I wonder about the rest. Ghost says that Cargolux and Atlas just fly to Europe, but I happen to be privy to different information (sorry I cannot disclose the source). Ghost, however, is right about MasAir: they carry load consigned to Asia just to LAX, where it is transshipped to other carriers for the transpacific leg of the trip. The foregoing in a way confirms the bottomline: a lot of cargo is bound to Asia ex-MEX, and most of it has to find a series of interline connections to get there.
Just food for thoughts.

Mmmmm. (thinking)

Regards,
__Ad.

Adriaticus...

... I do believe there is a market niche in the cargo business to Asia but not for pax. Would be interesting to do some additional research and determine whether a direct cargo link with Asia is feasible or not. The question here is, why JAL Cargo or Korean Air Cargo are not flying down here, just like Air France Cargo and Lufthansa Cargo do ?. To me this is all very strange. I have to tell you that when we had the Malaysia 744 to MEX, most of the palletized freight was destined for LAX; only very little cargo had its destination somewhere across the Pacific.

Regards

P.S. Forgot to praise you and Ricardo high for the cool composite of the Mexicana´s 744 you presented us all with. Thank you. One of these days... the dream might come true !

Adriaticus.....


A few months ago I presented a post with more or less the same idea. And as well as you, most of the replays lacked a clear point of view.

I know a B747C will give MX a strong business opportunity not just in the Mexico-Asia markets, but mostly anywhere. In this case NRT will be the best gate.

Doing the math, cargo pays for the cost of the trip and pax are extra earnings.

Last winter I spent a week in Cancun and my surprise was that the Fiesta Americana Grand Coral Beach Hotel receives hundreds of Japanese tourist day after day. The hotel personnel even speaks basic Japanese. I asked some tourist how did they get to Cancun, and they told me NRT-LAX-MEX-CUN or LAX-CUN.

Last April I flew to KIX. I wanted to fly JL from MEX to NRT, then KIX, but it was not possible because JL has only two weekly flights not very appropriate for business travelers. So I had to fly MEX-LAX-KIX. So, I know MX will do great in Asia.

By the way, lots of Mexicans travel to Asia day after day.

Think about this, IF there was a market to Asia, AM and KE would be codesharing a direct MEX-ICN flight with Korean's metal. That would be doable as of today, yet the route doesn't exist. What do you think?

Anthsaun...

.... A few years back All Nippon was seriously considering extending one of their two daily NRT-LAX flights into Cancun. ( no number of planned weekly frequencies were ever disclosed ). But guess what ?,... NH wanted full traffic rights between LAX-CUN v v. to guarantee profitability on the run. Naturally, they were turned down by both the DGAC and the U.S. DOT. So you see, the hundreds of Japanese tourists that you mention take Cancun by storm everyday, were very little thing for ANA... maybe some other time !..

... double  

Can a B744 combi fly M E X-T I J-N R T, configured for 1/4 cargo main deck and 3/4 pax, fully loaded without any penalties?

dew

How long is the runway at TIJ ?

Can a B744 combi fly M E X-T I J-N R T, configured for 1/4 cargo main deck and 3/4 pax, fully loaded without any penalties?

YES! You first only fuel the B747 for the MEX-TIJ leg to reduce weight and pack the plane with pax and cargo. In TIJ you refuel the plane for NRT.

How long is the runway at TIJ ?

MMTJ-TIJ

09/27

9711 x 144 feet
2960 x 44 meters

@ 487 feet / 148 meters.


*******
ACAPULCO - CHINA? / MEX-ACA-CHINA?

http://www.el-universal.com.mx/pls/impreso/web_columnas.detalle?var=40662


Ricardo APM

...Mexico-China direct flights !...

...Well, maybe Pedro Cerisola is thinking of starting his own "fayuca" stall in downtown Mexico City after he leaves office in 2006. Nice move, he could have on display the "ultimate" in Chinese junk flown in directly from Beijing, Shanghai, Xiamen or maybe even Sumao....some plastic "talking ducks" would be nice to shop for ! ...

...  ..... Hoy es beviernes... so everyone out there.. you have a nice weekend !

A rough free translation of the relevant portion would be (I am leaving out the references to CINTRA considering dropping short haul unprofitable routes, which has nothing to do with the Mexico-Asia market):

"<< Mexico negotiates nonstop flights with the Asiatic Dragon

No joke. On the one hand Mexico is ready to enter into an agreement for non-stop flights between Chinese cities and our country, ... [ ] ... In fact, in the recent international meeting on transportation held in Bali, [Transportation and Communications minister] Pedro Cerisola agreed with his peer from the People's Republic of China to reach an agreeement on non-stop flights. These do not exist nowadays, even when SECTUR (ministry of tourism, in charge of Rodolfo Elizondo) has calculated that 20,000 visitors came to Mexico from China during the past year, up from 12,000 in 2001. >>"

Even when an average of 54 Chinese visitors a day is not enough to make a route profitable, when you add Mexican visitors to China, and reduce weekly frequencies to, let's say, 3 or 4x on Combi-type aircrafts, and you weigh-in the (paying) freight, it starts to make business sense.

Ghost, thaks for the link... Alas I never figured the implication between Acapulco and China... The rest of the article only mentions CINTRA is considering dropping short-haul, unprofitable routes such as Veracruz and Acapulco (obviously, from MEX), but the note really does not imply ACA as an end of a Mexico-China nonstop flight.

Regards,
ACS

Average is 54 but perhaps with a direct link you could increase that number. There's market for this flight! A Combi 747 via TIJ flying it 3X a week (I would put 5X but JL is also a 'competitor')


And I found another article on this issue:

Va gobierno de México tras alianzas en China

Por Ariadna García
Mural
(13 Agosto 2004).-
MURAL / México
mural.com

MÉXICO.- A pesar de las continuas declaraciones de condena al modelo laboral de China, el Gobierno de Vicente Fox busca arduamente sentar las bases para que México y el gigante asiático se desarrollen "como socios y no competidores".

El lunes próximo inicia la primera reunión de la Comisión Binacional México-China a la que asistirán seis secretarios de Estado, y en la cual se pretenden firmar dos acuerdos en materia de turismo y transporte aéreo. La parte económica tendrá especial importancia, ya que se buscará promover un mayor acercamiento de los sectores productivos mexicanos al mercado chino.

Julián Ventura, Director General para Asia-Pacífico de la Secretaría de Relaciones Exteriores (SRE), aseguró que se trata de desarrollar una agenda de oportunidades entre los dos países y consolidar una relación estratégica.

"Esta visita representa un paso cuantitativo muy importante hacia la consolidación de una relación estratégica con China, en donde se toma en cuenta el importante desarrollo económico que ha tenido China en los últimos años y el lugar que ocupa en el escenario internacional, así como los cambios paralelos que ha tenido México de todo tipo: político, económico y social", indicó el funcionario en entrevista con REFORMA.

A la reunión asistirán los secretarios de Relaciones Exteriores, Agricultura, Comunicaciones y Transportes; Desarrollo Social, Economía y Turismo, además de los titulares del Conaculta y del Conacyt. A la comitiva se sumará un pequeño grupo de empresarios y legisladores.

Julián Ventura afirmó que el hecho de que a la Binacional con China acudan seis de secretarios de Estado, refleja "claramente" la prioridad que el Gobierno de México asigna al desarrollo de la relación con China.

En un documento elaborado por la Cancillería mexicana respecto a la Binacional con China y al cual REFORMA tuvo acceso, señala que el país asiático representa uno de los principales retos para las relaciones internacionales de México.

"El excelente nivel de diálogo político y de cooperación alcanzados a lo largo de más de tres décadas es un importante factor de apoyo para asegurar que nuestra agenda bilateral (México-China) sea una agenda de oportunidades y no una de amenazas", menciona.

Al referirse al ámbito comercial, la Cancillería destaca que es importante establecer un intercambio amplio, equilibrado y ordenado.

"En el ámbito económico buscamos promover un mayor acercamiento de los sectores productivos al mercado chino, tomando en cuenta que en unos pocos años China podrá convertirse en la principal fuente de demanda mundial.

"No perdemos de vista que al mismo tiempo, un mayor acercamiento en el ámbito económico redundará en beneficio de nuestra competitividad frente a terceros mercados", analiza la SRE.

-¿Esto quiere decir que si no puedes con el enemigo te unes a él?, se le cuestionó al Director General para Asia-Pacífico de la SRE, Julián Ventura.

"Yo no lo pondría desde esa perspectiva, lo calificaría como sentar las bases para que China y México se desarrollen como socios y no competidores, desarrollar una agenda de oportunidades".


Agenda oficial


Medio gabinete se va a China, en lo que es la tercera visita del Presidente Fox a ese país.

13 y 14 de agosto

- Visita Singapur el titular de Turismo.

16 y 17 de agosto

- Asiste la comitiva a Beijing a la primera reunión de la Comisión Binacional México-China.

18 de agosto

- Visitan Honk Kong.

Los acuerdos

- Firma de convenio entre las aerolíneas Mexicana y Cathay Pacific.

- Firma de convenio para la instalación en México de la cadena de hoteles Banyan Tree de Singapur.

- El convenio implica inversiones por 60 millones de dólares.

- Se impulsa apertura de vuelos directos de Singapur a México.

- Firma de acuerdo para designar a México como destino turístico.



Most Important Agreements:

- Firma de convenio entre las aerolí­neas Mexicana y Cathay Pacific.

MX and CX will sign an agreement.

- Se impulsa apertura de vuelos directos de Singapur a México.

Mexican government will try to convince an airline during his 3rd visit in Asia to open a direct flight from Singapore to Mexico.


If we don't see it this year a new route for sure in 2005 we will be more connected to Asia!


Ricardo APM

"Mexican government will try to convince an airline during his 3rd visit in Asia to open a direct flight from Singapore to Mexico."

I hope you do. You'll get a kick out of how nicely the row of 20 or so Asian flight attendants make their way thru the airport facilites to reach their parked 747-400. I'm sure everyone will stop what they're doing just to see this sight. Surely brings back a moment of glamour to today's air travel.


  LatinPlane

Finally some body set sight on Asia.

Sometimes I think most business men expect costumers to come by themselves into the market; and it is the other way around, lets go get them.

I hope the Mexican Executive gets Mexico into Asia instead of just getting Asia to profit out of Mexico. What I really mean is that I would like to see MX flying to Asia sooner than another Asian airline coming to Mexico. Nevertheless, receiving CX or SQ here would be great.

Finally some body set sight on Asia.

Yeap they finally did.

President Fox of Mexico and China's president commit already and both said that they'll open a flight from Mexico to China.

I hope the Mexican Executive gets Mexico into Asia instead of just getting Asia to profit out of Mexico. What I really mean is that I would like to see MX flying to Asia sooner than another Asian airline coming to Mexico. Nevertheless, receiving CX or SQ here would be great.

I hope this too! But MX is not ready for a long haul flight neither have the equipment for that. AM is uncertain if they are interested or not. For sure a Chinese will land here instead of a mexican carrier. Or, hopefully AM opens the route with T7s or MX with 340s.

Ricardo APM

What I recently found.....

Mexicana de Aviación inició los trámites para lograr esta autorización y a mediados del año próximo podría estar en marcha esta nueva ruta, que uniría ciudad de México con la metrópolis de Shanghai a través de Tijuana, según informaciones no confirmadas.


Mexicana De Aviacion applied for the authorization to start a flight to China next year in the middle of 2005. Routing will be MEX-TIJ-PVG.

MEX-TIJ 1242 nm
TIJ-PVG 5746 nm
Total: 6987 nm


A B767-300ER can do the job.... but would it be too risky? According to a.net the B767-300ER - Range with design payload with PW-4060s 10,880km (5875nm) and route to PVG from TIJ is 5746nm.


Or, are we finally going to see the A330 or A340 in MX??!! B747-400???

Adriaticus, tell us the truth! You know something about this issue before??!!


Ricardo APM

People seem to forget the sizeable Chinese population in Tijuana and Mexicali, I'm sure they would take a look at a direct flight from TIJ than istead of driving or flying to LAX.

What about Queretaro? This is becoming a hub of Mexican Industry, served only by a very small, regional, airline -- Aeromar. What about Juarez? Served basically out of El Paso

As the maquilladora plants continue to grow, as the Mexican ecomony continues to grow, how do we insure international cooperation continues in the same vein?

I am a software consultant, middle aged woman -- I do not dare set foot out of my Juarez hotel at night; however, in Queretaro, I am totally safe

So, how do we expand Mexico beyond Juarez and Tijuana into the real, central Mexico, and continue to allow gringo activities, while promoting a viable Mexican airline?

The 5th right will be the most critical issue for MX to operate to Asia.

It will be great if there are any direct service from Asia to MEX non-stop, but it really depends on if MX can obtain the rights to get PAX from Asia to LAX before heading to MEX.

In my opinion, MX can use their 747-Combi from SIN/HKG, via NRT to MEX.

Well... This is exciting... Ghost77, what are your sources? (who cite "unconfirmed sources") Maybe they are Adriaticus himself!! LOL   Or does he really knew something before?? (mystery!!)

Klyk1980: the idea is to fly through TIJ, not LAX... Other carriers do that already... So 5th freedom rights is not an issue... (Oh, and I wish, but not, MX hasn't got B744C's as of yet)

I see many advantages in serving the TIJ/SAN area, as several others have posted here; convenience, maquiladora executives... And the last one (particularly smart) is that, as Marcus pointed out, there is a large segment of ethnic Chinese population living in the northern part of Baja California state that would surely appreciate a link to their homeland not having to cross the USA border (a nightmare!!) and drive 4 hrs up to LAX to do this...

MX is about to get its second B763ER. AM will be getting its 4 B777's... Who is to serve this route? Let's make bets!!

Marie

Someone said that JL is not doing well in Mexico...

Well, I don't think so.

Last Tuesday, Aug 17th in the morning I was at MEX when JL 11 was to be boarded by a large number of pax. I asked at the gate how many pax for the flight and I was told it was full.

Some facts I learned from the JL people at MEX:
85% to 90% pax load factor.
Most pax fly all the way to NRT.
Most pax are Japanese.
Most Mexican pax fly to Japan via LAX and SFO
JL wants to ad more flights but the Mexican government has not allowed them to do so.
JL looks forward for a codeshare with AM because MX is with ANA. Nevertheless, JL flights MX's pax out of LAX too.
The YVR stopover is just a technical one.

"The YVR stopover is just a technical one."

Not so, considering I loaded 6 cans bound for MEX this morning...

Roughly 75% of the pax are going all the way from NRT-MEX, and YVR-MEX picks up the remainder. All in all, it goes out full.

-Rob

xa744, ANA has never served NRT-LAX two dailies, only one.

763 regardless of runway length couldn't get to Asia from SFO south without a suicidal restriction in payload. Thus AC in the northwest Pacific is the only carrier operating 767s across the north-Pacific. Besides in the winter time, the strongest headwinds are in the corridor south of YVR.

With a 777 it's a different ballgame. I look forward to AM flying a 777 (if or when they get them) to Japan or anywhere to Asia.

Anthsaun, thanx. Your input further supports the fact there is a market waiting to be served. 90% pax load factor is usually a no-brainer to open up a third and consider a fourth frequency... If the Mexican government is withholding authorizations may be due to trying to balance the offer with another carrier serving Asia non-stop.

I was hoping (See post No. 1) that MX would tackle the idea - but of course, it was a mere speculation. Now, with the Mexican-Chinese Agreement, the new B777's, and JL already code-sharing with AM, something tells me AM may be the one to jump in the Asian market...

__Ad.