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rjpieces
Topic Author
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Delta To Install Leather Seats In Coach

Tue Aug 17, 2004 9:23 am

The Wall Street Journal had a frontpage article about Delta and the changes that CEO Gerald Grinstein is trying to make. I can't post the article but here are some interesting points:

-He wants to make Delta the "Starbucks" of airlines, hoping customers will pay a slight premium for Delta's product. They haven't yet announced what some new product enhancements are.
-He feels that in five years, only two of the six major airlines will still be around. He suggest that one carrier will be American; and said "let's hope" the other is Delta....
-Delta started cycling aircraft through maintaince every 30 days instead of 70 in an effort to extend the planes lifes and improve their appearance.
-Next month, Delta will unveil new cabin interiors that include leather seats throughout coach class.
-They are instaling machine readers that let passengers who missed flights get new flight arrangements and meal or hotel vouchers.
-Grinstein suggests cutting some routes into their regional hubs.
-Grinstein hates the carriers "luggage tag" ad campaign
-He dislikes an aircraft paint job introduced last year, though he says changing it again isn't feasable.
-Grinstein also criticized Song, calling it a "mistake" and joking that he'd like to add "Swan" before Song's name.

Overall, it was a very interesting article. I assume he was referring to the Deltaflot paint job, even though it is more than a year old. I also disagree with his assesment of the industry in 5 years, perhaps he was exaggerating.

I am very curious to see what Delta will do to attract more premium passengers.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
scottysair
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RE: Delta To Install Leather Seats In Coach

Tue Aug 17, 2004 9:26 am

It will make good install for leather seats in the coach class. I really looking forward to see first one of new one.
 
AirplanePeanut
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RE: Delta To Install Leather Seats In Coach

Tue Aug 17, 2004 9:27 am

Honestly, I probably wouldnt pay for their"Preimum Service"


AirplanePeanut
..
 
JAL777
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RE: Delta To Install Leather Seats In Coach

Tue Aug 17, 2004 9:33 am

Just read the article. Looks like the ship is sinking fast.
 
SafetyDude
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RE: Delta To Install Leather Seats In Coach

Tue Aug 17, 2004 9:33 am

-He wants to make Delta the "Starbucks" of airlines, hoping customers will pay a slight premium for Delta's product. They haven't yet announced what some new product enhancements are.
For passengers to spend more, it will depend on what the premium is and the additional cost. If the premium-cost ratio is the same as Starbucks, I think that he needs to think again. A $4 cup of coffee once a week (or daily) is one thing, but airline tickets are another.

-He feels that in five years, only two of the six major airlines will still be around. He suggest that one carrier will be American; and said "let's hope" the other is Delta....
Five, if not all, of the big six will most likely be around.

-Next month, Delta will unveil new cabin interiors that include leather seats throughout coach class.
I hate leather seats, but that is just my opinion! (For those of you ready to reply, yes, I am aware of the operational difference.)

-Grinstein hates the carriers "luggage tag" ad campaign
It was a great idea, but is getting old.

-He dislikes an aircraft paint job introduced last year, though he says changing it again isn't feasable.
The scheme being the non-round widget?  Big grin I believe that Wavy Gravy has been around for a few years. Considering that the widgets are almost gone, a new livery would guarantee that there would be three different schemes out there.  Laugh out loud

 Smile
-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
gigneil
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RE: Delta To Install Leather Seats In Coach

Tue Aug 17, 2004 9:37 am

This is exactly what needs to be done, focus on increasing revenue via improved service, along with ways to cut costs.

Cutting costs is never the answer by itself.

N
 
wgw2707
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RE: Delta To Install Leather Seats In Coach

Tue Aug 17, 2004 9:41 am

With management like that, Delta is going nowhere fast. Grinstein should know by now that Delta has the worst product and a reputation for having the worst product in the industry. Their partners Continental and Northwest both offer superior products. Likewise their partners probably do not take well to the suggestion that they won't be around in 5 years.

It's also a bit odd that Grinstein thinks AA will be around in 5 years, yet NW won't, when NW is actually financially a more stable and in the long term viable airline than AA is. AA is suffering under the post TWA debtload while NW has a fully paid for fleet, minimal competition and excellent, efficient management.

In short, with remarks like these about his own airline and about others, I really seriously doubt Grinstein's ability to manage an airline. I would suggest that as part of the Chapter 11 restructuring Delta will soon be entering into Grinstein be removed and replaced with someone more competent.

-WGW2707
 
panam330
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RE: Delta To Install Leather Seats In Coach

Tue Aug 17, 2004 10:01 am

"AA is suffering under the post TWA debtload while NW has a fully paid for fleet, minimal competition and excellent, efficient management. "

Hardly. Only the DC-9s are fully paid for. I actually think they still lease some DC10s, but don't quote me on it.

Anyhow, excellent news. At least they are trying to (re)gain customers by improving their product. At least something is being done, rather than just cost-cutting. For once, a somewhat-positive note for Delta, among all the bankruptcy talk. Hopefully they will once again climb to the top. I wish them the best of luck in their long and hard quest  Big thumbs up.
 
deltaffindfw
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RE: Delta To Install Leather Seats In Coach

Tue Aug 17, 2004 10:04 am


Paying a "premium" can easily backfire. With corporate America still in a cost cutting mode, this could kill their corporate contracts. Why would my firm pay an extra 10-15% to fly me domestically on DL when AA is cheaper?
 
COEWR2587
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RE: Delta To Install Leather Seats In Coach

Tue Aug 17, 2004 10:04 am

I know CO will be around for more than 5 years.
Newark Airport...My Home Away From Home
 
Ryefly
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RE: Delta To Install Leather Seats In Coach

Tue Aug 17, 2004 10:08 am

I don't doubt there will be two maybe three at most of the major six around in five years, especially if oil remains high. Most likely American, Northwest, and maybe Continental will be around. The rest will be replaced by LCC.
 
sspontak
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RE: Delta To Install Leather Seats In Coach

Tue Aug 17, 2004 10:09 am

Grinstein bad mouths Song but it sounds like he will make Mainline into a Song like product with leather seats and improved service with longer haul routes. Oh he forgot the PTV's. Whatever dude.
 
sspontak
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RE: Delta To Install Leather Seats In Coach

Tue Aug 17, 2004 10:10 am

What will replace the LCC's when their costs get out of control:
fuel, multiple aircraft costs, employee costs.
 
Midway2AirTran
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RE: Delta To Install Leather Seats In Coach

Tue Aug 17, 2004 10:12 am

Well at least the leadership is trying something to compete other than fare slashing, but does paying a premium mean compared to LCC's or Delta's already outragous fares in some markets? No matter what, something must be done soon.
"Life is short, but your delay in ATL is not."
 
SafetyDude
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RE: Delta To Install Leather Seats In Coach

Tue Aug 17, 2004 10:14 am

What will replace the LCC's when their costs get out of control:
Seeing as how a LCC is low-cost, they are probably on the look-out for such things that could disrupt them and LCC's know how to remain low-cost. Most LCC's have only one type of an airplane.

 Smile
-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
Ryefly
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RE: Delta To Install Leather Seats In Coach

Tue Aug 17, 2004 10:14 am

New LCC's Sspontak. For every failed airline two more new airlines sprout up.
 
sspontak
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RE: Delta To Install Leather Seats In Coach

Tue Aug 17, 2004 10:20 am

What we are seeing though is LCC now buying multiple aircraft:

America West 737 757 A320's CRJ's
ATA 737 757 and possible 717
Air Tran 717 737
Jet Blue A320 Embraer Jet
Frontier 737 A320's
Southwest 737 and a future replacement coming

Also as these companies make money, the employees will most likely not sit by. They will want more of a piece of the pie.

It will be interesting.
 
bustraveler
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RE: Delta To Install Leather Seats In Coach

Tue Aug 17, 2004 10:37 am

I am sick of hearing about how NW's DC-9's are paid for. Yes they are paid for and that suits them well in the short term. However, when NW is forced to replace these DC-9's, and that means ALL, in the next 10 years, then they will be forced to incur a large amount of debt for the financing. In comparison, CO's fleet is extremely young and AA's isnt that old either. While AA may have more debt, I would argue that AA is in a similar position for the long-term compared with NWA. SWA is in excellent shape as we all agree but AA will be around for a while.
 
MSYtristar
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RE: Delta To Install Leather Seats In Coach

Tue Aug 17, 2004 10:42 am

Sspontak, just to clarify, Frontier only has about 7 B737's left. It's transitioning to an all A318/A319 fleet. The last 737 will be gone sometime next year.
 
srbmod
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RE: Delta To Install Leather Seats In Coach

Tue Aug 17, 2004 10:49 am

Actually, switching over to leather seats is a cost effective idea. ASA and Comair starting doing a similar thing several years back when they teamed up with TechOps to develop new seats for their CRJs. While the initial costs with leather seats are higher than with cloth, the long term costs are lower. There are lower cleaning and maintenance costs, plus the leather lasts longer than cloth. These are some of the reasons why Southwest and JetBlue both use leather seats.

It's hard to say whether this idea came about as a result of Song or the experiment using redeployed Delta Shuttle a/c on several routes out of ATL. In a way, the Shuttle a/c experiment is Song Lite. Song is definitely the test bed for some future Delta programs.

 
StevenUhl777
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RE: Delta To Install Leather Seats In Coach

Tue Aug 17, 2004 10:56 am

make Delta the "Starbucks" of airlines, hoping customers will pay a slight premium for Delta's product

Forget Starbucks...nothing premium about it. Try Tully's (Seattle-based coffee chain).

CO's fleet is extremely young and AA's isnt that old either.

True, but believe it or not, UA's fleet is also on the young side, average age under 10 years, I believe.
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
SafetyDude
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RE: Delta To Install Leather Seats In Coach

Tue Aug 17, 2004 10:59 am

America West 737 757 A320's CRJ's
The 737s are slowly going, 757s are used for the bigger routes and CRJ's for the smaller ones.

Air Tran 717 737
The 737 is for long-range (LCC standards) operations.

Jet Blue A320 Embraer Jet
The EMB's are for routes where the 320 is too big.

Southwest 737 and a future replacement coming
Not for years.

LCC's that have more than one type in their fleet keep things very simple and carefully deploy the planes.

 Smile
-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
rjpieces
Topic Author
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RE: Delta To Install Leather Seats In Coach

Tue Aug 17, 2004 11:14 am

Paying a "premium" can easily backfire. With corporate America still in a cost cutting mode, this could kill their corporate contracts. Why would my firm pay an extra 10-15% to fly me domestically on DL when AA is cheaper?

The 10-15% premium is compared to LCC fares and the fares that Delta is forced to match many times. Many corporations refuse to have their employees fly LCCs.

What will replace the LCC's when their costs get out of control:
fuel, multiple aircraft costs, employee costs


Southwest is dealing with this question now. Even though they have low labor costs, they are one of the most unionized airlines. Southwest is able to avoid the situation which is hurting the majors most now--High fuel costs. Since airlines like WN and B6 make money and have good credit, they can hedge their fuel at a low price. This is just one example of how LCCs can weather tough times. Also keep in mind that the two aircraft LCC model has yet to be proven effective. Southwest's model has. If JetBlue is still around and still strong in 30 years, we will know their method worked.

The 737 is for long-range (LCC standards) operations.

AirTran hasn't announced what price they paid for the 737s but they have said that due to the great rates, they will be able to operate the 737s for less than the 717s (plus don't forget their 737s have extra capacity/revenue capability)

Grinstein bad mouths Song but it sounds like he will make Mainline into a Song like product with leather seats and improved service with longer haul routes. Oh he forgot the PTV's. Whatever dude.

He also said that Song was a good test vehicle for faster turn around times and selling food onboard. Although IMO, management is screwed up if it needs to spend millions on a new brand to test faster turnaround times, something that should be incorporated into their model to begin with.

Southwest 737 and a future replacement coming

Southwest has no intentions to replace their 737s anytime soon. They still have many outstanding orders and the 737 still has a long future ahead, especially with military derivatives coming out now.

It's also a bit odd that Grinstein thinks AA will be around in 5 years, yet NW won't, when NW is actually financially a more stable and in the long term viable airline than AA is. AA is suffering under the post TWA debtload while NW has a fully paid for fleet, minimal competition and excellent, efficient management.


I also found this odd. AA is definitly in better shape than Delta; but so is Continental and Northwest. Like I said above, he must have been exaggerating for effect.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
sspontak
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RE: Delta To Install Leather Seats In Coach

Tue Aug 17, 2004 11:41 am

There was mention on a recent post that SW is in early talks with Boeing on a 737 replacement based on 7E7 technologies.
 
n102daman
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RE: Delta To Install Leather Seats In Coach

Tue Aug 17, 2004 11:48 am

This is the socond thread on the same subject today. Check out this link. Leather seats are great.

ttp://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1700467/

"Keep Singing Song"
"Fly Widget Fly"
"ASA Silver And Soaring"
"Service and Hospitality from the Heart." (C. E. Woolman, Delta airlines first CEO and founder.)
 
padcrasher
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RE: Delta To Install Leather Seats In Coach

Tue Aug 17, 2004 1:06 pm

The Wall St Journal got wrong today. Those remarks about Grinstein joking about "Swan Song" were made right after he took over. Since this time he has spoken about how his views have changed, and how well customers like the Song product. Song has annouced NAS recently and they are hiring new employees. Song is going to expand in a very big way.

Song is really rating high internal industry customer satisfaction surveys and was recently voted by Travel and Leisure Magazine the 3rd best domestic service in the US in it's first year of service. Plus the costs are 20% lower than mainline 757s. Of course Song is expanding.
 
Lono
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RE: Delta To Install Leather Seats In Coach

Tue Aug 17, 2004 1:18 pm

Padcrasher
Nope Grinstein is still saying "Swan"... at recent (last week) DL employee meetings...

Which is too bad I think.. "a bad experiment" that should have been incorporated into DL mainline from the beginning without calling it anything other than "Delta"..... make the changes but don't call it anything else....it would have been a huge success... Grinstein is also saying that DL Marketing is doing a horrible job.... I think DL listened to a hotshot marketing person who did not understand airlines or airline employees..

The airline within an airline does nothing but cause an "Us and them" rift with the employees.... same as differing "A" and "B" payscales.... it just does not work to segregate your employees....

DL's future is going to be interesting.....
Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
 
padcrasher
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RE: Delta To Install Leather Seats In Coach

Tue Aug 17, 2004 1:24 pm

Which employee meeting last week did Grinstein say this?
 
Lono
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RE: Delta To Install Leather Seats In Coach

Tue Aug 17, 2004 1:41 pm

Padcrasher
not sure of what meetings... I was talking with some of my old DL friends last week in SEA, DFW, CVG and ATL (I am retired DL)... both said Swan was used and I thought it was quite demeaning and shall we say demoralizing to those who heard it... add this to the current "grading of employees" that is going on and you have to think the DL employees are being trained to expect the worst....

But I too agree that Song will (have to!) expand.... this has also been an overwhelming rumor that Song will be domestic mainline... and "Delta" will be long haul international....
Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
 
padcrasher
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RE: Delta To Install Leather Seats In Coach

Tue Aug 17, 2004 1:41 pm

Good night Lonnie. I guess you got stumped!..LOL

This happens ever so often to bullshitters.

 
Lono
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RE: Delta To Install Leather Seats In Coach

Tue Aug 17, 2004 2:01 pm

Padcrasher

Good night to you....

I guess I got stumped along with the Wall Street Journal and Reuters and the employees I have been talking to....

Must be bullshit.... right????
Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
 
MAH4546
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RE: Delta To Install Leather Seats In Coach

Tue Aug 17, 2004 2:07 pm

Nothing more than a rumour, but supposedly there will be a Delta announcement regarding the future of Dallas on Wednesday. Anybody know/hear more?
a.
 
dl757md
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RE: Delta To Install Leather Seats In Coach

Tue Aug 17, 2004 3:47 pm

Delta started cycling aircraft through maintaince every 30 days instead of 70 in an effort to extend the planes lifes and improve their appearance.

Just goes to show you can't believe everything you read in the papers.....even WSJ. Although I doubt Delta would give them the following info.

Delta has only increased the frequency of mtc. operation 2525(a very thorough inspection of the interior appearance, functional condition, and safety) from about every 90 days to every 30 days. They created a new department (Dept. 206 cabin mtc.) to facilitate this. One of the results of this is a bunch of trees get killed for the paper to print our nightly work packages that don't get done because the analysts responsible for getting us parts have no clue in their little cubicles. It's not uncommon for a cabin audit to result in 150 plus write-ups many of which we can't fix because we don't have parts. They stay on CMI(cabin mtc item) and the list grows.

Delta has not increased the frequency of other mtc that could result in longer aircraft life or an increased technical dispatch rate. Quite the contrary. Late last year they quietly increased the time between A checks(400 hours to 500 hours on the 757 - I'm not sure of the figures for other aircraft - and a PSV(package service visit) every 12th A check up from every tenth). A large part of the reason that these checks have become less frequent is that the Dept. responsible for doing them, Dept 250 line mtc, has given up all the people who are now in 206. There isn't the manpower left in 250 to maintain the previous level of overall aircraft reliability because so many guys are in 206 now.

Now you know.

Dl757md



757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
Lono
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RE: Delta To Install Leather Seats In Coach

Tue Aug 17, 2004 4:02 pm

Dl757md

Sounds like you are stretched very thin...I am sorry that DL is going down this road... I was surprised to hear how many Rampies DL thinks it takes to turn a flight... those poor employees are running their butts off!

You reminded me of what the employees used to call Delta and all the required paperwork required to do your job back in the day..
D estroy E very L iving T ree in A merica..!!!

I wonder what SP manual will get the employee morale material that will surface after the re-org...!!
Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
 
N1120A
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RE: Delta To Install Leather Seats In Coach

Tue Aug 17, 2004 4:38 pm

<
America West 737 757 A320's CRJ's
ATA 737 757 and possible 717
Air Tran 717 737
Jet Blue A320 Embraer Jet
Frontier 737 A320's
Southwest 737 and a future replacement coming

Also as these companies make money, the employees will most likely not sit by. They will want more of a piece of the pie.>>

AWA the 757s at AWA are for high traffic routes, and they don't have very many of them. The 737s are going away very quickly, especially as they have ordered more A320s and A319s. The CRJs are not their aircraft, thy are flown by Mesa for them as AWA Express.

ATA currently does have a 2 plane scheduled fleet (3 if you count the L1011s doing charters) but that is because they are also the US' largest charter carrier and need aircraft (especially the 753) for charter use. B6 is getting the EMB 190 because they can fly them more cheaply than the A318, even after the conversion costs.

Also, like said here before, F9 is almost completely done with the 737s. Those were second-hand aircraft picked up as they grew and gained capital to buy new planes.

As far as Southwest, they are the world's most powerful and influential airline and they will only replace the 737s when Boeing says they will stop evolving it. Also, considering that they have more than 30 years experience at doing this right, there is nothing really interesting to see, as they have proven time again that their way works. They are heavily unionized and their employees are happy. Also, they get their piece of the pie, with pay that rivals anyone and stock that is actually worth something.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
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ua2162
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RE: Delta To Install Leather Seats In Coach

Tue Aug 17, 2004 4:50 pm

I'll gladly pay $200 more for my ticket to sit in a leather seat!  Wink/being sarcastic
 
acidradio
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RE: Delta To Install Leather Seats In Coach

Tue Aug 17, 2004 5:29 pm

What an insult to DL's partners NW and CO! They are all in this boat together, yet this guy publicly implies that he doesn't give them much for odds of survival? How arrogant.
Ich haben zwei Platzspielen und ein Microphone
 
baw716
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RE: Delta To Install Leather Seats In Coach

Tue Aug 17, 2004 5:39 pm

This one doesn't make sense. If they are running out of money, how is it that they can install leather seats in their airplanes? Its a dumb idea. Now, if they need to install 16G seats in their aircraft, different story. Even then, while it is nice to sit in a leather seat for a medium haul flight, a long haul flight is a different story. No international airline has a leather seat in their cabins. WHY? Simple. Leather seats wear out about twice to three times as fast as a cloth seat...and they are much more expensive to maintain.

Better to put in a higher quality cloth seat (16G, more advanced design for comfort within a small space) than spend money on leather.

Nobody is going to pay more just to have a leather seat. People will pay for 1) reliability, 2) comfort and 3) value for the fare paid. Leather seats do not add value to the product.

Grinstein needs to get better advisors.
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
 
FLY777UAL
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RE: Delta To Install Leather Seats In Coach

Tue Aug 17, 2004 5:58 pm

Baw716--leather last twice as long as cloth, not the other way around. The only trade off is that they cost twice as much from the get go, but customer appeal is higher and they are actually cheaper and easier to clean and maintain.

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L
 
rwylie77
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RE: Delta To Install Leather Seats In Coach

Tue Aug 17, 2004 6:44 pm

Regarding the comment about how only two of the six mainline carriers will be around in a few years I think has been misinterpreted by people on this forum.

As companies in their own right I would agree, but I can see NorthWest, Continental and Delta merging to form the one airline, while United and US have had rumours about merging for years...all of a sudden you have gone from six airlines to three - (NW, CO, DL), (UA, US) and AA.

One of UA and US may also go bankrupt, while the other merges with AA instead. Then you have two. Therefore no insults to the other carriers - he was not saying they will dissappear off the face of the earth completely.
 
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vatveng
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RE: Delta To Install Leather Seats In Coach

Tue Aug 17, 2004 7:43 pm

UA2162:
I'll gladly pay $200 more for my ticket to sit in a leather seat!

You go right ahead. Personally, I think leather seats are highly overrated from a passenger point of view. Yes, I know that operationally they save money b/c they're easier to keep clean and last longer than cloth. But I have never, repeat never, been able to get comfortable in a leather seat, either on an airplane or in a car. I keep sliding out of it, even with my seatbelt fastened.
 
DeltaWings
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RE: Delta To Install Leather Seats In Coach

Tue Aug 17, 2004 7:44 pm

Finally this Grinstein is doing sth by ading leather seats. This is the best thing he´s done in a long time, but then he spoils it again by wanting to charge 15% more. People wont go for it, especially if you can get other airlines with leather seats for cheaper. And what will this product enhancer be? He´ll probably wind up hiring live bands to play in the plane  Big grin

DeltaWings
Homer: Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen.
 
AUAE
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RE: Delta To Install Leather Seats In Coach

Tue Aug 17, 2004 9:10 pm

Glad to see your post Rwylie77!!!

I think the same thing. I don't think GG is saying that all the others will go bankrupt, he is saying there will be consolodation. And I agree big time with that. The only way to get the overcapacity out of the system and bring fares back up will be through consolodation. If mergers don't happen over the next 5 years, then it will be inevitable for 1 or 2 networks to liquidate. Just my opinion, but given the state of the airline industry, I don't see many other scenarios.

Shawn
Air transport is just a glorified bus operation. -Michael O'Leary, Ryanair's chief executive
 
Jumpseat70
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RE: Delta To Install Leather Seats In Coach

Tue Aug 17, 2004 9:29 pm

Dear Delta Wings,

Adding leather seats is only phase of a very comprehensive plan. What is not stated here is that our customers, THE DELTA customers, the Medallions and long time fliers are sick and tired of the cow herding mentality that has crept into the airline world. They have asked for this.

I can't tell you how many times I've wanted to tell a LCC customer who wants to board "now" to get a good seat, that I'll refund his cheap ass $110 ticket so my $600 medallion doesn't have to deal with his gum chewing, punk ass mentality.

I'm really not mad at everyone but this does come up often. The type of passenger has changed immensely over the years. The bus travelers have migrated into the airline society and changed the scenery dramactically.

The dumbest thing we, Delta Airlines, ever did was run off our medallions by rolling up the red carpet. I just pray they'll return. I miss their experienced attitudes, even when they run me ragged with suggestions for reroutes during a IROP.

I can't say much more, yet but I can assure you Delta will survive and you'll want a ticket on her to see the show.

"Excited for a change"
"Up, Up and away with TWA"
 
SafetyDude
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RE: Delta To Install Leather Seats In Coach

Tue Aug 17, 2004 9:34 pm

There was mention on a recent post that SW is in early talks with Boeing on a 737 replacement based on 7E7 technologies.
True, but as mentioned, the replacement is years away, as in 2010+ and that is being a bit generous.

 Smile
-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
richierich
Moderator
Posts: 3631
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2000 5:49 am

RE: Delta To Install Leather Seats In Coach

Tue Aug 17, 2004 9:44 pm

Song has annouced NAS recently and they are hiring new employees. Song is going to expand in a very big way.

Padcrasher, you must be kidding. There is only one reason Song is going to NAS and you know very well what that is. As for expanding, where and when? The way I see it, the expansion was curbed more than a year ago. NAS is not expansion but merely redeployment.

None shall pass!!!!
 
PHLBOS
Posts: 6520
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 6:38 am

RE: Delta To Install Leather Seats In Coach

Tue Aug 17, 2004 10:55 pm

I'll gladly pay $200 more for my ticket to sit in a leather seat!

TZ (at least on the 737s), WN (new interiors and some old-old interiors), B6 (?), and FL (737s only) already have leather coach seats.

Why pay the extra $200 for leather seats when some of the LCCs already offer them?
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
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drerx7
Posts: 4421
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2000 12:19 am

RE: Delta To Install Leather Seats In Coach

Tue Aug 17, 2004 11:23 pm

Wow Jumpseat70--thats a harsh attitude you have there. Eventhough I'm not a fan of Delta at all I'm glad that I know there are Delta employees that value all of their customers. I'm sure that the medallion level customers are tired of the "cow-herding" but you cannot ostracize and stereotype all of the "gum chewing LLC customers with Punk-Ass Mentatlity" they also help pay those employee salaries--get real man. Delta lost my business a while ago, hopefully these changes will bring me back as they use to be my favorite carrier. Through all of this I'm sure we'll see more Continental/Delta mergers floating around in the next 5 years.
HOUSTON, TEXAS
 
sspontak
Posts: 587
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2004 2:42 am

RE: Delta To Install Leather Seats In Coach

Tue Aug 17, 2004 11:56 pm

Eastern Airline's last attempt was to increase customer service with a much improved first/business class product. They also focused on the longer haul domestic markets. Eastern went belly up with this attempt. This is what Grinstein seems to want to do so many years later. But now there are so many LCC alternatives to choose from. Hopefully his plan to differentiate Delta from the rest of the herds will work. I certainly hope Delta survives and not get swallowed up by NWA. What a shame that would be.
 
OttoPylit
Posts: 2259
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 10:58 am

RE: Delta To Install Leather Seats In Coach

Wed Aug 18, 2004 12:07 am

Lono,

I must disagree with your post on the Swan Song and creating another airline starting an "us vs. them" mentality.

First off, when the BOD was approached with Song, Grinstein has said(Since he was Chairman) he was ok with starting an LCC named Song, as long as they put Swan in front of it. Everyone seems to think his "Swan" comment is insulting for Song when in truth, he just thinks its a better name and its an inside joke.

As far as creating an "us vs. them" mentality, I don't know what your friends are talking about. If there are any mentalities like that, it is between the pilots and the rest of the family, when we are taking cuts and they are getting raises. Unfortunately, some of our subsidiaries seem to feel the same. Many times during an ASA IROP, I have called their C Concourse ticket counter asking why many agents may not be rebooking passengers before sending them to another concourse. More than once I have gotten the reply, "They are YOUR passenger," as if MY airline is as different from theirs as UA to CO. If only I had the time to sit on the phone telling them that THEIR airline is owned by MY parent airline and that since both of OUR paychecks have Delta written on them, then it should be considered OUR airline.

I have not seen any kind of "rift" between mainline and Song employees, because we both know that the Song employees were aware of higher costs associated with being at the LCC, just as they were for pilot pay at DLX.
I don't have a microwave, but I do have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.

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