Spirit To PVD

RL757PVD · Thu Aug 19, 2004 5:21 am

I heard about this from some sources last week sometime, but now that Spirit has "officially leaked" the info....I'll post it. Look for a PR tommorrow with all the details. If you read a press release from Spirit today regarding slots at ORD... you will notice this excerpt from "about spirit" :

About Spirit Airlines

Founded in 1990, Fort Lauderdale-based Spirit Airlines is the largest privately held airline in the U.S., bringing low fares and friendly service to 17 cities, including: Atlantic City, N.J.; Cancun, Mexico; Chicago/O'Hare; Denver (until 9/7/04), Detroit; Las Vegas; Los Angeles; Myrtle Beach, S.C; New York/LaGuardia; Providence; San Juan, Puerto Rico; Washington, D.C./Reagan National; and the Florida cities of Fort Lauderdale, Fort Myers, Orlando and Tampa, with seasonal service to West Palm Beach. Spirit was recently granted authority to fly to 11 Caribbean destinations.

Notice PVD is now listed. Look for 4 flights to 3 cities.... more details tommorrow

mikeyCpvd · Thu Aug 19, 2004 6:00 am

Ooooooh weeee!! 2 new airlines at PVD for 2004! Dulles service has doubled up with Independence Air and now we've got almost all of Florida on lock (MCO, TPA, FLL?, RSW?). Depending on when they flights start, we could set another record for this year (previous record was 5.53 million in 2001). We're on track to pull about 5.4 as it stands now.

electraBob · Thu Aug 19, 2004 6:31 am

Spirit flights from PVD are already loaded in SABRE....

PVD-FLL....2 flights daily
PVD-DTW....1 flight daily
PVD-RSW...1 flight daily

There may be more...that's all I could find.

All flights begin October 28...all flights use the MD-80

Boeing757/767 · Thu Aug 19, 2004 7:03 am

This is funny ... Spirit just issued a corrected news release (the aforementioned statement on O'Hare) and wouldn't you know? PVD was deleted from the list of destinations. Check it out:

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/040818/185659_1.html

TUNisia · Thu Aug 19, 2004 7:21 am

I'm at home right now in Rhode Island (PVD) and there was story on the new tonight to watch the paper tomorrow as an announcement will be in the paper regarding a new low-cost carrier coming to PVD. So it looks like we will be getting Spirit!

Now, what we do need here at PVD is service to the UK :]

TUNisia

lat41 · Thu Aug 19, 2004 8:16 am

I would not think Spirit would want to go head to head with WN to TPA and MCO. It would be hard to get a piece of that pie. Why would NK want to get beat up on tose two routes. PVD/FLL has been low hanging fruit ever since Delta Express shrivled after 9/11. Delta (regular) wants to push everyone in Southern N. E. through the ATL hub or "get em' up in BOS" which is why, I think PVD was not a candidate for Song. SO now all the air/sea and vacation pax. can get right to FLL as thats certain to be a destination. Now what happens to the weekly flights on WN and US?. All NK will need in New England is a brand identity.

MAH4546 · Thu Aug 19, 2004 8:23 am

Now what happens to the weekly flights on WN and US?.

US Airways plans on going daily on FLL-PVD around February 2005 and Southwest honestly couldn't care less about FLL...they've ignored the market potential in the past and will continue to in the future. Combine this with AA's rumoured MIA-PVD (if it is going to happen this winter, we will know within two weeks), and, suddenly, the PVD-South Florida market has arrived.

[Edited 2004-08-19 01:24:40]

GD727 · Thu Aug 19, 2004 8:56 am

Man, looks like PVD is a very popular airport! It will be nice to have NK here, especially with the FLL and RSW flights. If I'm not mistaken, PVD is the #1 market that is currently not served N/S from FLL. I am positive Spirit will do well in PVD.

But where are they going to go? We have no ticket counter space or availible gates. They could use DL's Gate 22 though, since it is only used once a day, or even one of US's or CO's (US has 6 gates and CO has 2, but CO only has 1 mainline flight per day).

elwood64151 · Thu Aug 19, 2004 8:57 am

Good news for both airline and airport. Can't really understand why PVD is getting such attention, but if they can find the market, more power to them!

lat41 · Thu Aug 19, 2004 9:09 am

The market doesn't need to be "found" as PVD is in the middle of a population pool of millions in Southern N.E. which includes SE Massachusetts, RI and even a corner of CT. Many businesses and industries close by too. Legacy carriers, for the longest time have not wanted to offer too comprehensive a schedule at PVD in order to protect their BOS business and all they invest at Logan Airport. They also assumed that if it wasn't offered at PVD, that pax.would just go to BOS automatically. WN was a big catalyst in changing all of that by offering destination and more important, fares that people want without having to do BOS. Even after all they have spent there, there are just to many aircraft, vehicles and people moving on and off too small a space at one time. PVD to the South as well as MHT up North and even BDL are airports who's time has come.

John · Thu Aug 19, 2004 9:25 am

Does Spirit plan to fly these new PVD-Florida routes year round? NK is well known for it's TEST markets and if PVD doesn't make money for them, they'll drop it like a hot patato. I hope PVD works well for them, but we'll see what action WN and US takes (if any), to protect their market share. I have a feeling it's gonna end up being a major DOG fight in PVD this winter, especially if AA starts up their much anticipated MIA nonstop.

FLAIRPORT · Thu Aug 19, 2004 9:33 am

I can see PVD-FLL/RSW, but what about PVD-DTW, their other "hub"? Maybe?

Finally, a chance to fly NK, I need to get to Hartford/New Haven in OCT/NOV and NK to PVD might be the best option

ERJ170 · Thu Aug 19, 2004 9:36 am

Flairport, see Reply #2.. DTW is included, 1 daily

airportugal310 · Thu Aug 19, 2004 9:40 am

"Now, what we do need here at PVD is service to the UK :]"

That is what a real international airport like Boston is for Big grin

You have your choice of flights from VS, BA, and AA. Take your pic...A340's, 747's, or 777's! Smile

ERJ170 · Thu Aug 19, 2004 9:43 am

Airportugal310,

I believe that once PVD grows, adds length to their runway, and counter/gate space (in about anohter 6-8 years).. they will indeed have international service. I beleive several airlines will see PVD as a viable option to BOS... the future is looking bright for PVD!

electraBob · Thu Aug 19, 2004 9:50 am

Flairport - I'm almost sure that Spirit will time their PVD-DTW flight to allow passengers to connect in DTW with Spirit flights to Los Angeles and Las Vegas.

nwafflyer · Thu Aug 19, 2004 9:53 am

Big reason for Providence is that sure, you can fly to Logan -- but -- you cannot leave the airport -- until Logan has "shuttles" to the rest of NE, Logan is a totally impossible airport. Providence, or Springfield (Bradley) or Manchester or Portland -- DO NOT USE LOGAN, you cannot move from the damned airport. I'm a dyed in the wool yankee, grew up just outside of Boston, and have family in both Maine, Massachusetts and Rhode Island. Under no circumstances do I ever even consider using Logan

lat41 · Thu Aug 19, 2004 10:05 am

Realistically, expect some pull back later this year. There has to be and it may be better off for PVD and might give some breathing room. US later this year will have 10 flights to PHL where they used to have 5. That is not to mention the new WN flights there. UA and Independence Air together will have a ton of new service to IAD where not too long ago, before the RJ's the route was covered by Jetstream 41's, 4 times per day. I think some of this new capacity is nonsense and it won't reflect badly on PVD if some if it gets trimmed back to more sensible levels. It, hopefully would leave more room for new service.

TUNisia · Thu Aug 19, 2004 10:29 am

I live very close to PVD, but we hardly ever fly out of the airport (mainly due to connections). It's a nice sized airport, but it needs to grow. There is no more room now, but they will be building (or so I've heard). Hopefully once this construction is completed we might see B6. Would international service on 757s be an option? I do know that DL operated a 763 into PVD a few time early this summer/late spring. How did that go? Anyone? I used to spot at PVD all the time, but as of late the cops in Warwick (city where the airport is located) have been coming by and giving people a hard time for being parked. Bah!

TUNisia

MAH4546 · Thu Aug 19, 2004 12:01 pm

I have a feeling it's gonna end up being a major DOG fight in PVD this winter, especially if AA starts up their much anticipated MIA nonstop.

If AA does start-up MIA-PVD (looking more likely now that Spirit is in the market) and US goes daily on FLL-PVD, I wouldn't look for a dog fight per say. The market can support four daily flights during the winter with no problem. During the summer, I could see NK going to one daily on FLL-PVD. Of course, you are going to have NK and US (and WN) fighting it out with "who has the lowest fare". American can (and will) charge more to fly to MIA. And a good 60%+ of AA's traffic on PVD-MIA will be connecting to the Caribbean, Bahamas, and the Keys.

I believe that once PVD grows, adds length to their runway, and counter/gate space (in about anohter 6-8 years).. they will indeed have international service

It won't be six years, it is now. Providence has scheduled, seasonal service to Portugal's Azores Islands on SATA.

ERJ170 · Thu Aug 19, 2004 12:08 pm

Very true.. the seasonal Azores flight already occurs at PVD. What I meant was that, as far as additional international service, the longer runway is important for securing additional service. As per the Master Plan at TF Greene. The extra runway and safety area are needed before additional international traffic will arrive at TFGreene, due to the additional length needed during the winter months and with the expected cargo load the a/c will carry.

MAH4546 · Thu Aug 19, 2004 1:36 pm

Schedules:

PVD 0650-1000 FLL Daily M80
FLL 1125-1405 PVD Daily M80

PVD 1505-1815 FLL Daily M80
FLL 1725-2210 PVD Daily M80

PVD 0905-1215 RSW Daily M80
RSW 1300-1555 PVD Daily M80

PVD 1640-1835 DTW Daily M80
DTW 0640-0825 PVD Daily M80

airportugal310 · Thu Aug 19, 2004 2:02 pm

Big reason for Providence is that sure, you can fly to Logan -- but -- you cannot leave the airport -- until Logan has "shuttles" to the rest of NE, Logan is a totally impossible airport. Providence, or Springfield (Bradley) or Manchester or Portland -- DO NOT USE LOGAN, you cannot move from the damned airport. I'm a dyed in the wool yankee, grew up just outside of Boston, and have family in both Maine, Massachusetts and Rhode Island. Under no circumstances do I ever even consider using Logan

Are you for real???

Everyday I work there and wait for my Logan Express bus, I see buses heading to Providence on Bonanza, Portland, Vermont, Hyannis, Woods Hole...just to name a few.

How do I know this? Because when some of our flights to the Cape get x'led, we send pax to the Cape ferry terminals via road transport.

If your a dyed in wool yankee as you put it, why dont you consider supporting all of the airports in your area, not just the ones you like.

airportugal310 · Thu Aug 19, 2004 2:07 pm

It was also nice when Air Luxor flew the A330 into PVD. What happened to that flight?

mikeyCpvd · Thu Aug 19, 2004 9:54 pm

As far as I heard, Air Luxor didn't have an available A330 to use for this summer flights.

Thanks for the timetables, MAH. Those look like some pretty well thought out flights. Only 1 RON which should ease ramp congestion. We already have close to 10 RONs that arent hooked up to a bridge. A kickoff to FLL, and an early morning arrival from DTW to accomodate red-eyes from the West Coast, which turns around and does the RSW rotation, and then goes back to DTW, for more West coast contributions.

I'm worried about screening checkpoint delays again. As of now, with the new layout, the longest I've been in line for is about 20 minutes. And although the winter is less busy than the summer, we are getting a plethora of new flights starting next Monday with Independence. As mentioned, US is doubling PHL, and South Florida finally gets the service it deserves. Trust us PVD locals, these flights will excel. Just as confident as we were about AA's DFW service (which routinely goes out 90-100% and comes in overbooked), NK should congratulate themselves on a power move. They will be banking on these flights. I guess we will have to find a new, most popular destination served without a nonstop, since DFW and FLL (previously #1 and #2) were both aquired within 12 months!

PHLBOS · Thu Aug 19, 2004 10:09 pm

It's too bad NK wasn't already in PVD; my father could've used their future DTW-PVD service this past week when he visited my older brother.

When he was pricing flights from TOL or DTW to BDL or PVD, the fares were either too high and/or the connection points (WN: DTW-BDL or PVD with a connection @ MDW) involved backtracking. He wound up driving from Toledo to Sturbridge, MA (where my brother lives).

Boeing757/767 · Thu Aug 19, 2004 10:20 pm

Flairport -- If you need to get from Florida to Hartford/New Haven, use Song or Southwest. Why would you want to drive from PVD to CT when there's plenty of service with low fares?

FLAIRPORT · Thu Aug 19, 2004 10:43 pm

Boeing757/767,
I'm exploring options now. Plus, if the fare is lower, I'd try it. Also, I'm a member of this site which is reason enough to go out of my way!

mikeyCpvd · Thu Aug 19, 2004 11:20 pm

But where are they going to go? We have no ticket counter space or availible gates. They could use DL's Gate 22 though, since it is only used once a day, or even one of US's or CO's (US has 6 gates and CO has 2, but CO only has 1 mainline flight per day).

Our good friend PVD757 from Green Airport Operations previously mentioned that RIAC (RI Airport Corp) would be building Spirit's ticket counters right next to Delta's on the close end of the north end checkin area. This is right over by the Fleet ATM and the elevator. Delta will be handling the Spirit flights, so I'm sure they will be using Gate 22 for those flights, since it is severely underutilized now that DL Express has disintegrated.

The contrast between the South Concourse and North Concourse is begining to get more striking all the time. While the South Concourse has Cape Air, USAirways (and Express) and Continental (and Express), the North Concourse has United (and Express), Air Ontario, Northwest (and Pinnacle), American (and Eagle), Southwest, Delta (and Comair), Independence, and Spirit. That's 8 vs. 3 not including regional affiliates, and there are only 4 more gates to the North compared to the South.

SegmentKing · Fri Aug 20, 2004 1:35 am

don't forget that in Ft. Lauderdale you have a few strong small fries that compete well against American Eagle & Continental/Gulfstream.

Cape Air is adding additional flights from Key West & Ft. Laud, as is Florida Coastal (including their Out Islands/Bahamas Service); and if you look at Chalks Ocean Airways website it sure is starting to look like someone else's website *koff*. Also look for my airline to start service to St. Petersburg & Ft. Myers sometime by the end of the year!

These airlines are also located in the same terminal as Spirit, so the connection opportunities within Florida & the Bahamas exist (and they're much easier to do than Eagle in MIA, plus cheaper most of the time!)

-n

jeffie813 · Fri Aug 20, 2004 1:46 am

someone needs to start PVD - PBI service. southwest are you listening??

the way spirit keeps PBI as a seasonal destination drives me nuts. (somehow RSW is year-round???) i will never fly spirit for that reason alone.

MAH4546 · Fri Aug 20, 2004 1:47 am

These airlines are also located in the same terminal as Spirit, so the connection opportunities within Florida & the Bahamas exist (and they're much easier to do than Eagle in MIA, plus cheaper most of the time!)

True. I was wondering, do any of these airlines ever plan on becoming "Connection" carriers like Gulfstream and Cape Air (out of MIA and TPA) do? I would think there are huge advantages to being a Connection carrier as opposed to independent. Isn't there? And what are the advantages of being independent? More interlining for a larger amount of airlines?

PVD757 · Fri Aug 20, 2004 5:51 am

O&D Markets to/from PVD (current service):
(based on year end 03 numbers)

1. BWI (WN)
2. MCO (WN, US sat. only)
3. ORD/MDW (AA, UA, WN)
4. TPA (WN)
5. FLL (NK, US/WN sat. only)
6. DCA/IAD (DH, UA, US)
7. PHX (WN)
8. LAX
9. LAS
10. PBI
11. SAN
12. ATL (DL)
13. RSW (NK)
14. BNA (WN)
15. RDU (AA)
16. DTW (NW, NK)
17. CLE (CO)
18. JAX
19. SEA
20. DFW (AA)
21. IAH/HOU
22. ORF
23. MSP (NW)
24. MCI (WN)
25. PIT (US)
26. NYC (CO, US)
27. MIA
28. DEN
29. MSY
30. SJC
31. PHL (US)
32. OAK
33. STL
34. CLT (US)
.
.
.
41. CVG (DL)
.
.
.
71. ALB (CO)

PVD has gotten daily nonstop service to DFW, RDU, FLL, RSW since last November. Houston is the only market that PVD has had service to in the past that has not been restored (with the exception of ISP which could be argued as part of the WN NYC market and JFK which is part of the NYC market served by LGA & EWR). LAS, LAX, SAN, SEA, SFO, OAK are "runway challenged" from here for the most part, so I'd say PBI and JAX are good chances for some point to point and HOU/IAH and MIA are the next hub that could see service based on the numbers.

ERJ170 · Fri Aug 20, 2004 6:09 am

Hey PVD.. is that official from PVD Airport Authority? Or was that somewhere where I can check on RDU? Do you also have international numbers?

PVD757 · Fri Aug 20, 2004 6:18 am

these are numbers compiled for the PVD airport but are based on official USDOT traffic reports provided by the airlines to the gov,t.

ERJ170 · Fri Aug 20, 2004 6:22 am

Know where I can find that info?

GD727 · Fri Aug 20, 2004 6:30 am

Mikeycpvd: Thanks for the info, isn't Indy Air using that area as well?

TUNisia · Fri Aug 20, 2004 6:37 am

Looks like one-way fares will start out as low as $44 each way! Awesome

http://www.turnto10.com/money/3666482/detail.html

TUNisia

lat41 · Fri Aug 20, 2004 8:43 am

O & D numbers, depending on who compiles them, are skewed in my opinion, when a small or medium size airport is located within, or on the edge of a huge market like BOS or NYC. They don't account for people who go elsewhere for nonstop or frequent service, not conveniently available from the airport that they would logically use. DEN may be #28 on PVD757's quoted list, but there are more than enough people in Southern NE to support one, or more than one nonstop from PVD just as an example. I would say ditto for SJU which dosen't make the list at all.

nwafflyer · Fri Aug 20, 2004 8:57 am

PVD is a nice airport -- those of us going to New England use either PVD, or
Bradley, or Manchester -- Logan is a non - issue, it's an impossible airport to drive away from. So, if we're going to SE MA, or RI, or CT, we use either Providence or Bradley. If we're headed north, we use Manchester, or, if we're headed northeast, we use Portland

Airplaneslover · Fri Aug 20, 2004 8:59 am

WOW...I didn't know that PVD has a runway long enough to accomodate an Air Luxor A330. Anyway, I know USAirways uses 4 gates for mainline service and 1 gate for express service at PVD. They have the most gates there and my question is do they really need all of them ? Might be Spirit Airlines could use one of these gate. What do you all think?

MAH4546 · Fri Aug 20, 2004 10:19 am

I would say ditto for SJU which dosen't make the list at all.

The DOT only collects the O&D and fare numbers for domestic flights within the lower 48. They don't collect traffic for Hawai'i, Alaska, Puerto Rico, the U.S. Virgin Islands, Guam, or any international destination.

PVD757 · Fri Aug 20, 2004 10:33 am

54. SJU (11,770 annual pax CY2003) (BOS and BDL both have widebody nonstops - guess where everyone from PVD is going to get to SJU???!!!)

52. HNL (12,700 annual pax CY2003)

MAH4546 · Fri Aug 20, 2004 10:49 am

54. SJU (11,770 annual pax CY2003) (BOS and BDL both have widebody nonstops - guess where everyone from PVD is going to get to SJU???!!!)

52. HNL (12,700 annual pax CY2003)

Cool info. Did you get those from PVD? I've never seen any DOT figures reporting outside of the lower 48.

PVD757 · Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:15 am

The report is prepared specially for PVD by aviation consultants and is taken from the DOT O & D Survey - database products.

DCAYOW · Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:41 am

"The DOT only collects the O&D and fare numbers for domestic flights within the lower 48. They don't collect traffic for Hawai'i, Alaska, Puerto Rico, the U.S. Virgin Islands, Guam, or any international destination. "

This is not true. The DOT collects O&D itineraries from every US carrier. All US carriers are to submit the itinerary of every passenger whose ticket number ends in zero "0". This means if a passenger flies on UA from SAN-IAD-FRA, they are recorded in the DOT O&D databases. The reason these figures are not generally known is because it is illegal to transmit these figures to foreign carriers who do not have to report to the O&D database.

However, sometimes the foreign flag traffic is captured because of an itinerary like this:

SAN-IAD (UA)
IAD-FRA (LH)
FRA-BUD (LH)

This itinerary would be reported to the DOT because the ticket originated on UA and presumably ended in "0".

ERJ170 · Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:44 am

But can someone give me a link to where I can actually find the numbers, if it is possible?

DCAYOW · Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:54 am

The data is generally sold and is expensive unless you buy it from the government - but the government gives it to you on obsolete media.

For domestic data and if you have a lot of time (it is time consuming to use) - you can use the Bureau of Transportation statistics at

www.transtats.bts.gov

click on "aviation"

click on "airline origin and destination survey (DB1B)" - then try to download the relevant database.

Whenever I have tried to use it gives too much information into excel to logically sort, it requires Access or much more robust database.

There T-100 load factor page works well however and I have used it for both domestic and international downloads.

airportugal310 · Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:55 am

"Logan is a non - issue, it's an impossible airport to drive away from"

Ignorance is running rampant, especially those replies from people who dont read the replies that came before theirs. coughcoughcough*nwafflyer*coughcough

Read reply #'s 16,22, and 39. See what I mean? Consultant's must only want to read what they want to read... Big grin

Kudos to PVD and Spirit. Did not know much about them until I flew to MCO last month and saw their MD's parked there...then did some research...cool stuff! Smile

kim777fan · Sat Aug 21, 2004 2:43 am

Definitely good news for this Detroit traveler who likes goind to Boston but hasn't liked the fares being charged by NW for PVD, BOS, or MHT. The first reasonable airport close to there where I'm not gouged is Portland.

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