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Gary2880
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:32 am

just said on itv that witnessess saw an explosion just before it crashed, could be exageration or unfortunatley someone blowing it up i dont know
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel :- Samuel Johnson
 
backfire
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:32 am

Can't be certain but the only late-evening flight Moscow DME to Sochi is the Sibir service.
 
SA006
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:33 am

My prayers are with them

I'll keep checking CNN on the tele

Rgds
SA006
Proudly South African
 
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EZEIZA
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:36 am

finally got in touch of cnn .... apparently no survivors on 1st plane, and officially second plane is still missing (??)
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
Gary2880
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:39 am

yeah their saying the atc has lost contact with the second plane beside sochi, one confirmed crash and the other still being refferd to as missing
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel :- Samuel Johnson
 
backfire
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:41 am

...there's a late-evening Sibir flight from DME to Volgograd too. Apparently.
 
Corpsnerd09
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:42 am

MSNBC speaking with a Russian Affiliate live! right now! 6:40PM EDT, in the US.

Apparently, he's saying the 2nd plane has only lost contact and is not officially confirmed as crashed but if it has crashed he's saying that it's a "HIGH POSSIBILITY" it could be a terrorist attack (probably chechnyan). The first plane is reported to have exploded in mid-air by a wittness.
 
spacecadet
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:43 am

Eyewitnesses almost always report an explosion prior to an accident. By themselves, these reports are meaningless. They need corroboration to assign them any relevance.

Too early to know anything at all beyond the fact that one plane is down, one is missing. Not much news here in the USA so far, just a small mention of that on the CBS News just now.

Edit: Watching MSNBC now too. Talk is of terrorism but I think fuel contamination is just as likely.

[Edited 2004-08-25 00:49:56]
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
jran225
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:47 am

Hey guys,

first of all, I too offer my condolances for the passengers, crew, and their families. It has to be sabotage. If the was a fuel contamination problem, the odds of both aircraft losing their engines at the same time is very low. Even if they did lose the engines, the pilot would have sent an emergency message to the ground controller. Same goes if it was a mechanical problem, only difference being that the chance of both planes suffering mechanical problems at the same time is even lower. My theory is that somebody (maybe two airport employees) planted timed bombs on both aircraft. This is a very likely possibility:

a.) Both aircraft crashed almost simultaneously!
b.) Both aircraft departed from the same airport!
c.) Eyewitnesses reported seeing an explosion before the plane crashed!

This is just a theory. I don't mean to make any strong suggestion towards the cause of the crash. Again, my regards to the victims and their families.

Regards,
-Omar S.
Never tell your girlfriend about all the 'action' you're getting at the airport - only photogs understand that.
 
RCS763AV
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:48 am

Oh my god....that is awful....prayers to all the dead.  Sad
 
Tom in NO
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:49 am

A.net is being mentioned as a aircraft info source on the AP wire.

http://www.theneworleanschannel.com/news/3678401/detail.html

Tom at MSY
"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
 
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airkas1
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:50 am

Got this from someone in the A.net chat:

Volga-Avia Tu-134, flight 1303 Moscow-Volgograd
Sibir Tu-154, flight 1047 Moscow-Sochi
 
CV747
Posts: 166
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:53 am

DME is known to be safe and the most modern airport in Moscow.

On the other side: Two plane are lost from ATC within 4 minutes. Both left DME.
This is hardly a cooncidence.

German TV now talks about 100 cassualties in both accdents.



 
spacecadet
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:53 am

It has to be sabotage. If the was a fuel contamination problem, the odds of both aircraft losing their engines at the same time is very low. Even if they did lose the engines, the pilot would have sent an emergency message to the ground controller.

And you have no idea right now whether that happened or not. Again, we have hardly any information at the moment. For all you know, both airplanes made Mayday calls.

Both taking off from the same airport also means both probably used the same fuel source. I'm not saying that's what it was, I'm saying it's just as likely as terrorism at this point. It's also possible (though probably not as likely) that it's just coincidence. Coincidences do happen in life.

You can't say one theory is the leading theory at this point. The accident(s) just happened.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
NDSchu777
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:54 am

Not good.  Sad Sounds suspiciously like a 9/11. I hope that the two crashes are the end of it. Prayers and condolences for the victims and their family's.

And on a side note, Airliners.net is being cited as a source by MSNBC:

"Both planes were Tupolev Tu-154 jets, the standard medium-range airliner on domestic flights in Russia, other former Soviet states, Iran and parts of eastern Europe, according to the Web site Airliners.net ."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5810127/

~Nick
 
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airkas1
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:58 am

Also on Yahoo.

My condolences to the families.
 
BA777
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:02 am

Nick,

Seems to have changed to "Tupolev’s Tu-154 jet remains the standard medium-range airliner on domestic flights in Russia, according to aviation Web sites"


My condolences to the families also  Sad

Henry
 
SafetyDude
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:02 am

From Yahoo: "In Washington, a senior U.S. State Department official said, 'We are obviously concerned by the news. We're following developments closely and trying to determine the facts.'"

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040824/ap_on_re_eu/russia_plane_crash_040824221903

 Sad
-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:03 am

Oddly, the U.S. media seems to be giving this story minimal coverage.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
Gary2880
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:04 am

fox news is finally covering it aswell, sky news is being slow, itv seams best for uk coverage
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel :- Samuel Johnson
 
Gary2880
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:07 am

it says the area the 2nd plane was lost over is very remote area so it might take a while to find it

[Edited 2004-08-25 01:07:48]
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel :- Samuel Johnson
 
nwafflyer
Posts: 888
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:08 am

We have to be so careful here. Yes, we must offer condolences to the families -- but we must not interpret/escalate or exaggerate the issues. If this is another 9/11 type attack, lets wait with our thoughts until that is confirmed. The saddest thing is the innocent victims and their families, let's just think of them for the time being, until we know what has happened.
 
N754PR
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:09 am

BBC says one was a TU-134 and they hit each other
Bush, your a sad, sad man.
 
Gary2880
Posts: 1856
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:52 pm

RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:10 am

well thats wrong anyway
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel :- Samuel Johnson
 
ctbarnes
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:11 am

The saddest thing is the innocent victims and their families, let's just think of them for the time being, until we know what has happened.

Amen!

Charles, SJ
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
Gary2880
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:11 am

they were a good thousand miles appart on a closer look at the map, one is a confirmed crash and the other is still lost to radar, definatley did not crash into eachother
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel :- Samuel Johnson
 
SafetyDude
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:12 am

Update from CNN: No one survived and the planes went down seperately.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/08/24/russia.planecrash/index.html

 Sad
-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
vasilek
Posts: 36
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:13 am

One of the planes was TU-134. It blew up in the air according to the Department of Emergency Situations of Tula region and russian newspaper Gazeta.
 
CV747
Posts: 166
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:14 am

1. People on the ground report the 134 exploded before falling to the ground. Wreckage is supposed to scattered around.
2. The 154 is lost but has not been found.
3. Putin orders FSB to investigate both incidents.
 
planespotterx
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:14 am

All this talk about terrorists, whats the chances of it being a mid-air collision between the two planes, any possibility or are the distances involved rule this out.
Its not the fall that kills u, its the sudden stop at the end..
 
SafetyDude
Posts: 3654
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:15 am

The New York Times is now reporting the story: http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/international/international-crash-russia.html?hp (Registration required.)

 Sad
-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
corey07850
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:15 am

ABC news says the aircraft crashed about 500 miles about, and they could have crashed as soon as 3 minutes apart...

http://abcnews.go.com/wire/World/ap20040824_1902.html


(again, all speculation)
 
SafetyDude
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:16 am

All this talk about terrorists, whats the chances of it being a mid-air collision between the two planes, any possibility or are the distances involved rule this out.
Numerous news sources have stated that the planes went down separately and at different times.

 Sad
-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
rlwynn
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:16 am

One of the planes was enroute to the town where Putin is on holiday.
I can drive faster than you
 
CV747
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:16 am

Mid-air collision is ruled out. The planes were lost hundreds of miles from each other. The 134 wreckage has been found. The 154 has not.
 
Gary2880
Posts: 1856
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:16 am

the distances are far to great to consider a colision, the maps their putting on the screens show that the country of the ukraine is between them, in distance
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel :- Samuel Johnson
 
Blackbird1331
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:17 am

I guess we need to slow down. The last NBC report I saw said they were 300 miles apart. South of Moscow.
Cameras shoot pictures. Guns shoot people. They have the guns.
 
planespotterx
Posts: 1259
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:18 am

Thanks for verifying that, I wasnt sure as to whats happened (like everyone else) so I thought id just be best to ask (same departure airport, relatively same "lost" contact point") thank you.
Its not the fall that kills u, its the sudden stop at the end..
 
connector4you
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:19 am

Accordingly to CBC News, Canada's National TV, President Putin is currently vacationing in Sochi ! ! !




 
Gary2880
Posts: 1856
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:20 am

if he is in sochi its coming up alot on the maps

[Edited 2004-08-25 01:22:18]
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel :- Samuel Johnson
 
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zippyjet
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:29 am

http://www.airdisaster.com/ Here is another story related to these tragic events. My heart goes out to everyone involved.
I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
 
CV747
Posts: 166
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:29 am

If it is true that the 134 is from Volga Avia is must be cn 49400 RA-65043.
(I said IF)
I flew on a Sibir TU-154 only a few weeks ago. Great Airline!

 
CV747
Posts: 166
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:33 am

Rescue team have probably found the wreckage of the second plane.
CNN
 
pelican
Posts: 2431
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:35 am

This is very, very sad.  Crying
My condolences to the victims and their families.

Let us wait with specualation.


pelican
 
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Buyantukhaa
Posts: 2324
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:35 am

See map for GC routes. Tula is approx, does not have IATA code. I suspect real crash site may be more to the East, seems more logical (may be air corridor as well).

http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=DME-VOG%0D%0A54.5N38E%0D%0ADME-AER%0D%0AROV%0D%0A&RANGE=&PATH-COLOR=red&PATH-UNITS=mi&SPEED-GROUND=&SPEED-UNITS=kts&MARKER=1&RANGE-STYLE=best&RANGE-COLOR=navy&MAP-STYLE=

(sorry, paste this as I didn't manage to get direct link)
I scratch my head, therefore I am.
 
Gary2880
Posts: 1856
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:42 am

is there any idea of what russias protocall is, are all planes grounded? i heard that moscows airports are closed
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel :- Samuel Johnson
 
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Buyantukhaa
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:45 am

From http://www.airdisaster.com/news/0804/24/news.shtml

"The crash comes only days before Sunday's presidential election in the breakaway republic of Chechnya . Pro-Russian President Akhmad Kadyrov was killed by a bombing in May.

A series of deadly explosions in recent years has claimed hundreds of lives in blasts that have been blamed mostly on Chechen separatist rebels"

I scratch my head, therefore I am.
 
elwood64151
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:45 am

fox news is finally covering it aswell, sky news is being slow, itv seams best for uk coverage

Haven't been watching them very closely, have you? They were on this story within half an hour. I know because I turned on the TV when I got home and saw the reports almost immediately.

Also, FNC just reported that there are reports of a fire in the Rostov area, so it's likely that the second plane DID crash.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
 
SafetyDude
Posts: 3654
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:49 am

Haven't been watching them very closely, have you? They were on this story within half an hour. I know because I turned on the TV when I got home and saw the reports almost immediately.
TV usually takes a bit longer than written sources.

 Sad
-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
Gary2880
Posts: 1856
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RE: Breaking News: Plane With 62 Crashed Nr Moscow

Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:49 am

that post was accurate about 15 minutes ago heh, things moving fast, more networks are catching onto it, cnn is worrying, itv is worrying, sky is reporting and fox is being self centerd about it
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel :- Samuel Johnson
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